Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

Charles Curley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 04:31:09AM +1000, Tim Lambert wrote:
> > While I was over at the Chronicle I came across a March 21 letter from
> > Lott responding to a February article in the Chronicle. Lott writes:
> >
> > Given the space that the article devoted to my use of a pseudonym
> > in Internet chat rooms, I should note that I stopped using my own
> > name because discussions often turned personal and resulted in
> > people calling me at my office with threatening or obnoxious
> > remarks. In retrospect, either I should not have participated in
> > chat rooms or I should have continued to do so under my own name.
> >
> > Unfortunately for Lott's story, Google has archives of the discussions
> > he was in and they never turned personal--everybody was polite to
> > Lott.
>
> Googling will not turn up private, off-list emails or telephone
> conversations. Also, does google.com have a facility for searching
> chat room traffic?

By "chat room" Lott is referring to Usenet, and, yes, Google Groups
lets you search Usenet.  Even if Lott is counting emails as part of
the discussion, it still is not credible.  Almost all responses are
posted, and emails tend to be more polite, since there is no point in
grandstanding.

> > Indeed, in one of his postings Lott even complains about getting
> > threatening phone calls, but not about phone calls from other Internet
> > posters:
> >
> > "You ought to see what happens to my telephone calls when someone
> > like a Charles Schumer or Josh Sugarmann or Sara Brady makes this
> > charge. I get lots of threatening telephone calls and
> > letters. These calls don't bother me, though they do greatly upset
> > my wife."
>
> This quote (absent any context) addresses only situations where 1)
> some famous anti-gunner 2) makes a certain, unspecified charge. It
> does not address chat traffic at all unless one of the specifc
> accusers makes the charge on chat room.

If he was also getting phone calls from Usenetters, then he would have
complained about it then as well.


--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

"Clayton E. Cramer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Lambert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft
>
>
> > Charles Curley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 04:31:09AM +1000, Tim Lambert wrote:
> > > > While I was over at the Chronicle I came across a March 21 letter from
> > > > Lott responding to a February article in the Chronicle. Lott writes:
> > > >
> > > > Given the space that the article devoted to my use of a pseudonym
> > > > in Internet chat rooms, I should note that I stopped using my own
> > > > name because discussions often turned personal and resulted in
> > > > people calling me at my office with threatening or obnoxious
> > > > remarks. In retrospect, either I should not have participated in
> > > > chat rooms or I should have continued to do so under my own name.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately for Lott's story, Google has archives of the discussions
> > > > he was in and they never turned personal--everybody was polite to
> > > > Lott.

> Perhaps I missed too much context of this discussion.  Here's an
> example of a personal attack that Tim seems to have missed:

Your example is from 2003 and is not from a discussion that Lott was
involved in.  You should look for postings by John Lott and then look
at all the follow ups.

--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[C. D. Tavares]

At 2:21 PM -0600 8/11/03, David T. Hardy wrote:

> Just as clarification, you mention that "category BE50 into AM54
> (Homicide) and AM55 )Other violence)" What do they class as a
> killing, caused by violence, which is not a homicide? I guess
> accidental deaths (other than poisoning, etc.) might be a
> possibility, altho 1.5 would seem low for that.

It's been my observation that when various morbidity/mortality compilations
populate a class of "other," it usually doesn't mean "something different
from one of our named categories" as much as it means "undetermined which
of the other named categories these belonged to" -- i.e., unsolved, cold
trail, etc.

The best example of this is the CDC compilation that breaks down gun deaths
into handgun, long gun, and "other."  They don't mean "AOW's" -- they mean
that the report they have failed to determine or specify what weapon was
used.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  http://alum.mit.edu/www/tavares   |  RKBA!


Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
--LORD ACTON (1887)

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[David T. Hardy]

Tim wrote:

Charles Curley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Googling will not turn up private, off-list emails or telephone
 conversations. Also, does google.com have a facility for searching
 chat room traffic?
By "chat room" Lott is referring to Usenet, and, yes, Google Groups
lets you search Usenet.  Even if Lott is counting emails as part of
the discussion, it still is not credible.  Almost all responses are
posted, and emails tend to be more polite, since there is no point in
grandstanding.
Not on any controversial issue!

Some months ago I posed a homepage with a criticism of "documentary"
maker Michael Moore. You ought to see the emails I've gotten! Only
one death threat, to be sure (I'm shaking in my boots, of course).
One guy from Berlin sent me four emails back to back. Others wrote in
and when I didn't answer quickly (I was getting 200 emails a day)
wrote back saying obviously I had no answers. A few samples:
"it's obvious you are a gun loving racist redneck freak with a
unhealthy fixation for Charlton Heston."
"Michael Moore is the best. We piss off the american Arrogance."

"Personally I think your just pissed that he did such a good job
telling the truth about gun loving, warmonging, right wingers."
"You love yourself don't you?! You think you're so damn clever!? You
think that the best intelligence to have comes right out of your
ass!?"
"I also  did my research and what i found out is that you are an
idiot that wants to have Charelton Heston's children."
"Hey, I think it's really funny that you criticize all the emails of the
people who disagree with you based not on their thesis, not on their
content, but on their writers' spelling and grammar.  Could this
possibly be because you are a bitter little piece of shit?"
--

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Charles Curley]

On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 04:31:09AM +1000, Tim Lambert wrote:
> doc Zox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > In a message dated 8/6/03 12:28:06 PM, you wrote:
> >
> > <>
> >
> > it would also appear that the freepers have unmasked the culpret:
> >
> > Domain ID:D98296683-LROR
> > Domain Name:ASKJOHNLOTT.ORG
> > Created On:27-Jun-2003 22:10:30 UTC
> > Tech Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Name Server:GW.DATAGRAM.COM
> > Name Server:NS.CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.ORG
> >
> > Registrant:
> > Peretti, Jonah (EGLJTYIIMD)
> > 45 Main Street
> > 12th Floor
> > Brooklyn, NY 11201
> > US
> 
> That's a bit confusing -- Peretti is actually the registrant for
> contagiousmedia.org, not askjohnlott.org.
> 
> However the address listed for askjohnlott.org, which used to be
> bogus, is now 45 Main Street, 12th Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11201, so
> Peretti is definitely involved.

Not necessarily. There is little or no fact checking behind the
registration data -- as the previous bogus address should have
reminded you. There isn't even basic sanity checking like verifying
whether Washington, D.C. is in the state of New York.

However, another, more persuasive, bit of evidence is that the whois
listing for askjohnlott.org indicates that one of its two
(authoritative) name servers is NS.CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.ORG. Unless "Mary
Rosh" has cracked NS.CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.ORG, it could not be an
authoritative name server without the owners' active effort. Somewhat
more coincidentally, CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.org lists the same two name
servers that askjohnlott.org lists.

Also, they have the same IP address:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ccurley]$ host CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.org
CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.org has address 38.144.92.91
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ccurley]$ host askjohnlott.org
askjohnlott.org has address 38.144.92.91


> 
> http://timlambert.org/2003/08#0808
> Chronicle on askjohnlott.org
> 
> Scott Carlson at The Chronicle of Higher Education has a story
> (subscription required) about askjohnlott. He quotes Lott:
> 
> "Someone called me up a couple of weeks ago, very angry, claiming
> that they got an e-mail from me, telling them that I was advising
> them to do illegal things," like buy guns illegally, he says. "I
> just thought the person was joking. After I was done talking to
> them, I found this crazy Web site."
> 
> This doesn't make sense. If the person believed that the email was
> from Lott, the natural thing would be to reply to it, not phone
> Lott. 

Why? This does not follow. Perhaps the caller wanted the faster
interaction one gets with a phone call. Or the emotional release.

> If they thought that it was from a fake on-line persona, then
> they wouldn't have accused the real Lott of giving the advice.
> 
> I also get quoted:
> 
> Tim Lambert, a lecturer in computer science and engineering at the
> University of New South Wales, is one of Mr. Lott's most
> persistent critics. He says the site was a "pretty silly attempt
> to bait Lott."
> 
> "He rose to the bait, getting his friends at The Washington Times
> and CNSNews to publicize it," Mr. Lambert says. "If Lott would
> have ignored the site, it would have gone away."
> 
> While I was over at the Chronicle I came across a March 21 letter from
> Lott responding to a February article in the Chronicle. Lott writes:
> 
> Given the space that the article devoted to my use of a pseudonym
> in Internet chat rooms, I should note that I stopped using my own
> name because discussions often turned personal and resulted in
> people calling me at my office with threatening or obnoxious
> remarks. In retrospect, either I should not have participated in
> chat rooms or I should have continued to do so under my own name.
> 
> Unfortunately for Lott's story, Google has archives of the discussions
> he was in and they never turned personal--everybody was polite to
> Lott. 

Googling will not turn up private, off-list emails or telephone
conversations. Also, does google.com have a facility for searching
chat room traffic?

> Indeed, in one of his postings Lott even complains about getting
> threatening phone calls, but not about phone calls from other Internet
> posters:
> 
> "You ought to see what happens to my telephone calls when someone
> like a Charles Schumer or Josh Sugarmann or Sara Brady makes this
> charge. I get lots of threatening telephone calls and
> letters. These calls don't bother me, though they do greatly upset
> my wife."

This quote (absent any context) addresses only situations where 1)
some famous anti-gunner 2) makes a certain, unspecified charge. It
does not address chat traffic at all unless one of the specifc
accusers makes the charge on chat room.

-- 

Charles Curley  /"\ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Looking for fine software   \ /Respect for open standards
and/or writing?  X No HTML/RTF in email
http://www.charlescurley.com/ \  

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

"David T. Hardy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Tim wrote:
>
> >Charles Curley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> >>
> >>  Googling will not turn up private, off-list emails or telephone
> >>  conversations. Also, does google.com have a facility for searching
> >>  chat room traffic?
> >
> >By "chat room" Lott is referring to Usenet, and, yes, Google Groups
> >lets you search Usenet.  Even if Lott is counting emails as part of
> >the discussion, it still is not credible.  Almost all responses are
> >posted, and emails tend to be more polite, since there is no point in
> >grandstanding.
>
> Not on any controversial issue!

I didn't say that emails were all polite, but that they were more
polite than Usenet postings.

> Some months ago I posed a homepage with a criticism of "documentary"
> maker Michael Moore.

Hmm, I notice you include the bogus claim that Japanese Americans have
a homicide rate half that of americans. This is not so:

http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~lambert/guns/archive/japan/msg2.html


--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Clayton E. Cramer]

- Original Message -
From: "Tim Lambert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft


> Charles Curley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 04:31:09AM +1000, Tim Lambert wrote:
> > > While I was over at the Chronicle I came across a March 21 letter from
> > > Lott responding to a February article in the Chronicle. Lott writes:
> > >
> > > Given the space that the article devoted to my use of a pseudonym
> > > in Internet chat rooms, I should note that I stopped using my own
> > > name because discussions often turned personal and resulted in
> > > people calling me at my office with threatening or obnoxious
> > > remarks. In retrospect, either I should not have participated in
> > > chat rooms or I should have continued to do so under my own name.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately for Lott's story, Google has archives of the discussions
> > > he was in and they never turned personal--everybody was polite to
> > > Lott.

Perhaps I missed too much context of this discussion.  Here's an example of
a
personal attack that Tim seems to have missed:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3e883e5c
.494853621%40nntp.service.ohio-state.edu&rnum=11&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522Joh
n%2BLott%2522%2BCatl%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-
8%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D3e883e5c.494853621%2540nntp.service.ohio-state.edu%
26rnum%3D11

> washingtonpost.com
>
> The Crash That Killed My Data
>
> Saturday, March 22, 2003; Page A15
>
> The bottom line is that I lost data
> for most of my various research projects, as well as the files for my
> book "More Guns, Less Crime," in a computer crash in July 1997.

Where's the hard disk off that computer, disgraced Ex-Constable Johnny
Johnson?  I bet we could find somebody who could lift the data off it.
Hell, I read that the FBI can lift data off hard disks taken from house
fires.

Surely we can help Dr. Lotto get his data back!

Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.

How did Lotto dispose of that computer?  Maybe the hard disk's just lying
around his garage someplace - let's ask him, okay Ex-Constable Johnson?

Or is this is just more whining from Dr. Lotto because nobody believes his
story, and because his story is not believable especially in light of his
transsexual imaginary admirer, Mary Rosh?

See if he can produce Mary too, you ridiculous old fraud...

Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.

-
There are plenty of other examples available of this sort of personal
attack.
Just search for "Lone Weasel" and "John Lott".

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[doc Zox]

In a message dated 8/6/03 12:28:06 PM, you wrote:

<>

it would also appear that the freepers have unmasked the culpret:

Domain ID:D98296683-LROR
Domain Name:ASKJOHNLOTT.ORG
Created On:27-Jun-2003 22:10:30 UTC
Tech Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Name Server:GW.DATAGRAM.COM
Name Server:NS.CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.ORG

Registrant:
Peretti, Jonah (EGLJTYIIMD)
45 Main Street
12th Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11201
US

Domain Name: CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.ORG

Administrative Contact:
Peretti, Jonah (JP28089)

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12276

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

"Clayton E. Cramer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Lambert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft
>
>
> > By "chat room" Lott is referring to Usenet, and, yes, Google Groups
> > lets you search Usenet.  Even if Lott is counting emails as part of
> > the discussion, it still is not credible.  Almost all responses are
> > posted, and emails tend to be more polite, since there is no point in
> > grandstanding.

> If this were true for Lott, it would be the only time in the history
> of USENET that the email was more polite than the stuff in the
> newsgroups--and much of what gets posted in talk.politics.guns is
> incredibly rude.  While the antigun crowd is far more rude in
> talk.politics.guns than the progun side, there are plenty of
> examples on both sides that are embarrassing.

The problem is that you don't seem to notice the rudeness from the
pro-gunners.  The last time we discussed this you had pointed to a
posting where the pro-gunners had been far more rude and described it
as an example of rudeness of antigun folks.




--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[David T. Hardy]

"David T. Hardy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Tim wrote:

 >Charles Curley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 
 >>
 >>  Googling will not turn up private, off-list emails or telephone
 >>  conversations. Also, does google.com have a facility for searching
 >>  chat room traffic?
 >
 >By "chat room" Lott is referring to Usenet, and, yes, Google Groups
 >lets you search Usenet.  Even if Lott is counting emails as part of
 >the discussion, it still is not credible.  Almost all responses are
 >posted, and emails tend to be more polite, since there is no point in
 >grandstanding.
 Not on any controversial issue!
I didn't say that emails were all polite, but that they were more
polite than Usenet postings.
 Some months ago I posed a homepage with a criticism of "documentary"
 maker Michael Moore.
Hmm, I notice you include the bogus claim that Japanese Americans have
a homicide rate half that of americans. This is not so:
http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~lambert/guns/archive/japan/msg2.html
Not to get off on that issue (I only posted it because I got a load
of emails asking why I didn't mention it), but you say "Considering
all the factors above, we can guess that the homicide rate for
Japanese-Americans is somewhere between 0.5 and 3.0 per 100,000 pop."
Either would make it considerably less than half the rate for other
Americans.
Just as clarification, you mention that "category BE50 into AM54
(Homicide) and AM55 )Other violence)" What do they class as a
killing, caused by violence, which is not a homicide? I guess
accidental deaths (other than poisoning, etc.) might be a
possibility, altho 1.5 would seem low for that.
--

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Clayton E. Cramer]

- Original Message -
From: "Tim Lambert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft


> By "chat room" Lott is referring to Usenet, and, yes, Google Groups
> lets you search Usenet.  Even if Lott is counting emails as part of
> the discussion, it still is not credible.  Almost all responses are
> posted, and emails tend to be more polite, since there is no point in
> grandstanding.

If this were true for Lott, it would be the only time in the history of
USENET
that the email was more polite than the stuff in the newsgroups--and much of
what gets posted in talk.politics.guns is incredibly rude.  While the
antigun
crowd is far more rude in talk.politics.guns than the progun side, there are
plenty of examples on both sides that are embarrassing.

I don't normally keep track of death threats, insults, and the like in
email, but
I have received my share over the years.  I do keep track of death threats
and harrassing phone calls that I receive.  I will say that I have never
received such a phone call from an antigun person.  (In fact, the only
harrassing or death threat phone calls come from one group alone, not any
of the factions associated with the gun control debate--out of all the
controversial stuff  that I have written.)

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

doc Zox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> In a message dated 8/6/03 12:28:06 PM, you wrote:
>
> <>
>
> it would also appear that the freepers have unmasked the culpret:
>
> Domain ID:D98296683-LROR
> Domain Name:ASKJOHNLOTT.ORG
> Created On:27-Jun-2003 22:10:30 UTC
> Tech Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Name Server:GW.DATAGRAM.COM
> Name Server:NS.CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.ORG
>
> Registrant:
> Peretti, Jonah (EGLJTYIIMD)
> 45 Main Street
> 12th Floor
> Brooklyn, NY 11201
> US

That's a bit confusing -- Peretti is actually the registrant for
contagiousmedia.org, not askjohnlott.org.

However the address listed for askjohnlott.org, which used to be
bogus, is now 45 Main Street, 12th Floor, Brooklyn, NY 11201, so
Peretti is definitely involved.

http://timlambert.org/2003/08#0808
Chronicle on askjohnlott.org

Scott Carlson at The Chronicle of Higher Education has a story
(subscription required) about askjohnlott. He quotes Lott:

"Someone called me up a couple of weeks ago, very angry, claiming
that they got an e-mail from me, telling them that I was advising
them to do illegal things," like buy guns illegally, he says. "I
just thought the person was joking. After I was done talking to
them, I found this crazy Web site."

This doesn't make sense. If the person believed that the email was
from Lott, the natural thing would be to reply to it, not phone
Lott. If they thought that it was from a fake on-line persona, then
they wouldn't have accused the real Lott of giving the advice.

I also get quoted:

Tim Lambert, a lecturer in computer science and engineering at the
University of New South Wales, is one of Mr. Lott's most
persistent critics. He says the site was a "pretty silly attempt
to bait Lott."

"He rose to the bait, getting his friends at The Washington Times
and CNSNews to publicize it," Mr. Lambert says. "If Lott would
have ignored the site, it would have gone away."

While I was over at the Chronicle I came across a March 21 letter from
Lott responding to a February article in the Chronicle. Lott writes:

Given the space that the article devoted to my use of a pseudonym
in Internet chat rooms, I should note that I stopped using my own
name because discussions often turned personal and resulted in
people calling me at my office with threatening or obnoxious
remarks. In retrospect, either I should not have participated in
chat rooms or I should have continued to do so under my own name.

Unfortunately for Lott's story, Google has archives of the discussions
he was in and they never turned personal--everybody was polite to
Lott. Indeed, in one of his postings Lott even complains about getting
threatening phone calls, but not about phone calls from other Internet
posters:

"You ought to see what happens to my telephone calls when someone
like a Charles Schumer or Josh Sugarmann or Sara Brady makes this
charge. I get lots of threatening telephone calls and
letters. These calls don't bother me, though they do greatly upset
my wife."



--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

Tim Lambert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> So, were they really cracked, or is it another prank?

This thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/958535/posts
has someone pointing out that the site is vulnerable, and later
someone posts the content of the defaced site, so yes, they were really
cracked.

--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

http://timlambert.org/2003/08#0806
askjohnlott.org now just contains the following text:

AskJohnLott.org was recently hacked by someone who values the
Second Ammendment but not the First. Although we at
AskJohnLott.org can understand why pro-gun extremists would be
afraid of free speech, we believe that the entire Bill of Rights
should be upheld.

Ask John Lott will be restored soon. In the meantime, the
following sites provide information about the John Lott
controversy:

Who Is Mary Rosh?

More Guns, More Crime

Tim Lambert's weblog

Thanks, and long live the Bill of Rights!

So, were they really cracked, or is it another prank? I don't know,
but over at freerepublic.com, there was talk of denial of service
attacks on the site, so it is certainly plausible that some pro-gun
person cracked the site.

Since they've linked to me, I should also note that I have no
connection with the people behind the site and don't know who they
are.

And could people please use the word "cracker" to refer to someone who
breaks into systems? We would like to reclaim the original meaning of
"hacker".

--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

doc Zox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> In a message dated 8/4/03 2:10:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << > Domain name: WHOISMARYROSH.COM
>
> That's an entirely different site to askjohnlott.org >>
>
> http://www.askjohnlott.org/bio.html
> John Lott created and used "Mary Rosh" as a fake persona to defend his own
> works in Internet discussion forums. "Rosh" became a highly reputable source,
> showing that John Lott's views and standpoints speak beyond his reputation.
> Extensive details can be found at the website Who Is Mary Rosh?

Odd.  It's changed.  It used to have a link to johnlott.org.  They
seem to have made the parody more obvious.

> It would appear Gonzo is involved with the perpetrators of www.askjohnlott.org

I think you'll need mor evidence than just a link.  gunguys and
whoismaryrosh have the same Chicago address, while askjohnlott has a
New York one.


> His www.GunGuys.com site appears on the first look, to be pro-gun as well
>
> http://www.splattereffect.com/about.html
> F.A.Q.s from splattereffect.com:
> "What are you doing this for?
> Because Michael Moore can't be everywhere."
>
> -dZ
>

--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[doc Zox]

In a message dated 8/4/03 2:10:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< > Domain name: WHOISMARYROSH.COM

That's an entirely different site to askjohnlott.org >>

http://www.askjohnlott.org/bio.html
John Lott created and used "Mary Rosh" as a fake persona to defend his own
works in Internet discussion forums. "Rosh" became a highly reputable source,
showing that John Lott's views and standpoints speak beyond his reputation.
Extensive details can be found at the website Who Is Mary Rosh?

It would appear Gonzo is involved with the perpetrators of www.askjohnlott.org

His www.GunGuys.com site appears on the first look, to be pro-gun as well

http://www.splattereffect.com/about.html
F.A.Q.s from splattereffect.com:
"What are you doing this for?
Because Michael Moore can't be everywhere."

-dZ

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 07:58:25AM -0500, Paul Barnett wrote:
> Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft
> By Jeff Johnson
> CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
> August 04, 2003
> 
> Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Dr. John Lott, resident scholar at the
> American Enterprise Institute and author of the most widely cited
> research on civilian use of firearms against criminals, has been
> targeted by an online identity theft scheme, he disclosed Friday.

> 
> An interesting tangent is that the "sponsored link" to Google on this
> page (that is supplied by Google per https://www.google.com/adsense/)
> is www.askjohn.org.

When I googled on "John Lott" (with quotes) this morning, I got the
"askjohnlott.org" domain, not "askjohn.org". askjohn.org is registered
but parked (i.e. inactive). So apparently, contrary to the CNSNews.com
article, the sponsored link is back.

One other thought on the whois lookup I just did on
www.askjohnlott.org: anyone could have used the name "Mary Rosh";
U.S. domain name registrars make no checks on the validity of the data
registrants use. So whoever did this is familiar with the "Mary Rosh"
flap.

-- 

Charles Curley  /"\ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Looking for fine software   \ /Respect for open standards
and/or writing?  X No HTML/RTF in email
http://www.charlescurley.com/ \No M$ Word docs in email

Key fingerprint = CE5C 6645 A45A 64E4 94C0  809C FFF6 4C48 4ECD DFDB


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

doc Zox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> it would apear to be the work of Mike Magnum AKA Gonzo Schexnayder
>
> Domain name: WHOISMARYROSH.COM

That's an entirely different site to askjohnlott.org

>
> www.WhoIsMaryRosh.com
> PO Box 618354
> Chicago, IL 60661
> US
>
>
> thats the same PO Box as Mike Magnum
> www.GunGuys.com
> Mike Magnum
> P.O. Box 618354
> Chicago, Il 60661

The askjohnlott.org folks seem to be operating out of New York.
If you call the contact number for that domain you get a recorded
message saying:
  "You have reached Mary Rosh. Don't be in a rosh and leave a nice
   long message."

--
Tim

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[doc Zox]

it would apear to be the work of Mike Magnum AKA Gonzo Schexnayder

Domain name: WHOISMARYROSH.COM

www.WhoIsMaryRosh.com
PO Box 618354
Chicago, IL 60661
US


thats the same PO Box as Mike Magnum
www.GunGuys.com
Mike Magnum
P.O. Box 618354
Chicago, Il 60661

same PO box:
http://www.itsariot.com/who/join.html

Domain Name: ITSARIOT.COM

Created on..: Fri, Aug 23, 2002
Expires on..: Sat, Aug 23, 2003
Record last updated on..: Mon, Nov 11, 2002

Administrative Contact:
Gonzo Schexnayder



http://www.splattereffect.com/bios.html
http://www.splattereffect.com/archives/wits060500.html

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Jimmy Wales]

http://www.askjohnlott.org/

A quick review of the site reveals that 'Identity Theft' isn't
necessarily the most complete or accurate description.  "Lampoon" or
"Parody" more likely fits the bill here.  It's a bit heavy handed and
dull-witted, but still...

Slightly more amusing is:
http://www.whoismaryrosh.com/

It's the Photoshop talents that sets this one apart.

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 07:58:25AM -0500, Paul Barnett wrote:
> Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft
> By Jeff Johnson
> CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
> August 04, 2003
> 
> Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Dr. John Lott, resident scholar at the
> American Enterprise Institute and author of the most widely cited
> research on civilian use of firearms against criminals, has been
> targeted by an online identity theft scheme, he disclosed Friday.
> 


> 
> But the Google search also displayed "a sponsored link" for the web page
> "AskJohnLott.org."
> 
> "Ask John Lott: You can ask him any question you have about gun control
> or his books www.askjohnlott.org," the paid advertisement claimed,
> followed by a graphic indicator showing high interest in the website.
> 
> The only problem with both the advertisement and the website is that
> neither was authorized by Lott.

Oh?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ccurley]$ whois AskJohnLott.org
BW whois 3.4 by Bill Weinman (http://whois.bw.org/)
Copyright 1999-2003 William E. Weinman
Request: AskJohnLott.org
whois server for *.org is whois.publicinterestregistry.net ...
connected to whois.publicinterestregistry.net [129.33.96.137:43] ...

[snip]


Domain ID:D98296683-LROR
Domain Name:ASKJOHNLOTT.ORG
Created On:27-Jun-2003 22:10:30 UTC
Last Updated On:27-Jun-2003 22:16:48 UTC
Expiration Date:27-Jun-2004 22:10:30 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:R91-LROR
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:GODA-03418410
Registrant Name:Mary Rosh
Registrant Organization:Center for Truth
Registrant Street1:380 Main Street
Registrant City:Washington DC
Registrant State/Province:New York
Registrant Postal Code:10012
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.9179132591
Registrant Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Admin ID:GODA-23418410
Admin Name:Mary Rosh
Admin Organization:Center for Truth
Admin Street1:380 Main Street
Admin City:Washington DC
Admin State/Province:New York
Admin Postal Code:10012
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.9179132591
Admin Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Billing ID:GODA-33418410
Billing Name:Mary Rosh
Billing Organization:Center for Truth
Billing Street1:380 Main Street
Billing City:Washington DC
Billing State/Province:New York
Billing Postal Code:10012
Billing Country:US
Billing Phone:+1.9179132591
Billing Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tech ID:GODA-13418410
Tech Name:Mary Rosh
Tech Organization:Center for Truth
Tech Street1:380 Main Street
Tech City:Washington DC
Tech State/Province:New York
Tech Postal Code:10012
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.9179132591
Tech Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Name Server:GW.DATAGRAM.COM
Name Server:NS.CONTAGIOUSMEDIA.ORG

Last I knew, Washington, DC, was not in New York -- but with those
itty bitty least coast states, ya never know. :-)

Also, the "Center for Truth" does not appear to have a telephone
number listing in New York City or DC. Anyone care to call the number
to see who answers?

Also, the sponsored link on google.com is to
http://www.askjohnlott.org/. I got it on a search for "John Lott"
(with quotes).

-- 

Charles Curley  /"\ASCII Ribbon Campaign
Looking for fine software   \ /Respect for open standards
and/or writing?  X No HTML/RTF in email
http://www.charlescurley.com/ \No M$ Word docs in email

Key fingerprint = CE5C 6645 A45A 64E4 94C0  809C FFF6 4C48 4ECD DFDB


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Gun Statistics Expert John Lott Victim of Identity Theft

[Tim Lambert]

Paul Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200308\NAT20030804c.html
>
> An interesting tangent is that the "sponsored link" to Google on this
> page (that is supplied by Google per https://www.google.com/adsense/)
> is www.askjohn.org.

You are mistaken.  They are just showing you what the sponsored link
looks like -- it is not a link to askjohnlott.org

I think it is rather over the top to label a parody site as "identity
theft".  More details and all the links on my blog at:
http://timlambert.org/2003/08#0804

--
Tim