Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
Dear Xueshan, Another interesting source for Bateson's DTMD is in 'Angels Fear: towards an epistemiology of the sacred' (1988): 'That which gets from territory to map is news of difference, and at that point I recognized that news of difference was a synonym for information' (http://www.oikos.org/angelsfear.htm#introduction [1] ) Reading from James Gleik's book 'The Information' recently and his description of the seminal Macy's Conferencesof 1941 it would seem that Shannon Wiener and Bateson were coming from the same new idea of 'information' but with different formulations. Mackay's formal approach (in-form-ation) is closer to the historical/philosophical concept inherited from Plato and Aristotle. I think 'news of information' (cf Shannon's 'surprise') is related to the symmetry-breaking phenomenon that Pedro and John Collier identified back in 1996 as an essential feature of in-formation at work (where the in- prefix implies the deconstructive force of the Greek 'ana' (as in the verb _anamorpheoin_, to transform by breaking down the shape). Without the antisymmetric force of 'news' difference does not become a dynamic phenomenon (as in differentiation) but remains a speculative abstraction (like 'drawing a distinction'). The key question for IS is - to what , for whom and how is the difference made. John H - Original Message - From:y...@pku.edu.cn To: Cc: Sent:Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:52:40 +0800 Subject:Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph, About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD definition, we saw this quote long long ago, but there two different sayings: One is Information is a distinction that makes a difference from Donald M. MacKay in his Information, Mechanism and Meaning (1969), and another is Information is a difference that makes a difference from Gregory Bateson in his Steps to an Ecology of Mind (1972). Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M. MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find Information is a difference that makes a difference in Gregory Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind at page 230, 361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate priority about DTMD? Best wishes, Xueshan 16:49, April 14, 2013 Peking University -Original Message- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 Send fis mailing list submissions to fis@listas.unizar.es To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es You can reach the person managing the list at fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of fis digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch) 2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ) 3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 + (GMT+00:00) From: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) To: , Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Pedro, Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, expressive, containing much information . . . Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about the the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton Keynes Conference. Best wishes, Joseph Message d'origine De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Date: 12.04.2013 11:02 À: Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) Dear FIS Friends, Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said several times, my science management duties are killing not only my time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine what is happening with the financing and organization of Spanish science these years... Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in Milton Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information (the difference that makes a difference). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed here. The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the conceptual explorations addressed in their conference. And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, MOSCOW 2013, the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It will be held this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed a
Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph, About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD definition, we saw this quote long long ago, but there two different sayings: One is Information is a distinction that makes a difference from Donald M. MacKay in his Information, Mechanism and Meaning (1969), and another is Information is a difference that makes a difference from Gregory Bateson in his Steps to an Ecology of Mind (1972). Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M. MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find Information is a difference that makes a difference in Gregory Bateson's Steps to an Ecology of Mind at page 230, 361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate priority about DTMD? Best wishes, Xueshan 16:49, April 14, 2013 Peking University -Original Message- From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 Send fis mailing list submissions to fis@listas.unizar.es To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es You can reach the person managing the list at fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of fis digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch) 2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ) 3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 + (GMT+00:00) From: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch joe.bren...@bluewin.ch Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) To: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es, fis@listas.unizar.es Message-ID: 15776686.90091365786718476.javamail.webm...@bluewin.ch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Pedro, Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, expressive, containing much information . . . Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about the the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton Keynes Conference. Best wishes, Joseph Message d'origine De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Date: 12.04.2013 11:02 À: fis@listas.unizar.es Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) Dear FIS Friends, Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said several times, my science management duties are killing not only my time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine what is happening with the financing and organization of Spanish science these years... Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in Milton Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information (the difference that makes a difference). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed here. The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the conceptual explorations addressed in their conference. And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, MOSCOW 2013, the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It will be held this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference centered in the diffusion of information science in the Russian scientific community. At the time being, to my knowledge (I could not follow very well the process), only the members of the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants. But given that there will be several absences, interested FIS parties might ask about their possible participation. The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and again I have to apologize for not having posted this info before (info glut!). In any case, am sure that our colleague Konstantin Kolin ( koli...@mail.ru ), leading organizer, and member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be happy to respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate the process. Best wishes to all ---Pedro - Pedro C. Marijuán Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X 50009 Zaragoza, Spain Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (amp; 6818) pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ - ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es
Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
Dear Dr. Yan I make reference to the MacKay quote in my article that can be found here: www.mdpi.com/2078-2489/3/1/68/pdf I make reference to Hayles, K. How We Became Posthuman; University of Chicago Press: Chicago, IL, USA, 1999. where you will find an extensive discussion of Donald MacKay's formulation of his definition of information: Information is a distinction that makes a difference–MacKay If you google Information is a distinction that makes a difference you will find many more references to this quote. with kind regards - Bob Logan On 2013-04-14, at 4:52 AM, Xueshan Yan wrote: Information is a distinction that makes a difference __ Robert K. Logan Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2
Dear All: I have to agree with Xueshan Yan on that one: In G.Batesson (1979) Mind and Nature: A Necessary Unity NY: Dutton. We find at the Glassary p. 228: Information: Any difference taht makes a difference. see also Ch.3, Multiple Versions of the World, Sec.1, The Case of Difference. All the best, ---Julio Stern From: lo...@physics.utoronto.ca Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:45:54 -0400 To: y...@pku.edu.cn CC: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 Dear Dr. Yan I make reference to the MacKay quote in my article that can be found here: www.mdpi.com/2078-2489/3/1/68/pdf I make reference to Hayles, K. How We Became Posthuman; University of Chicago Press: Chicago, IL, USA, 1999. where you will find an extensive discussion of Donald MacKay's formulation of his definition of information: Information is a distinction that makes a difference–MacKay If you google Information is a distinction that makes a difference you will find many more references to this quote. with kind regards - Bob Logan On 2013-04-14, at 4:52 AM, Xueshan Yan wrote:Information is a distinction that makes a difference __ Robert K. LoganChief Scientist - sLab at OCADProf. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
