Dear Xueshan,Another interesting source for Bateson's DTMD is in 'Angels Fear: towards an epistemiology of the sacred' (1988): 'That which gets from territory to map is news of difference, and at that point I recognized that news of difference was a synonym for information' (http://www.oikos.org/angelsfear.htm#introduction [1] ) Reading from James Gleik's book 'The Information' recently and his description of the seminal Macy's Conferencesof 1941 it would seem that Shannon Wiener and Bateson were coming from the same new idea of 'information' but with different formulations. Mackay's formal approach (in-form-ation) is closer to the historical/philosophical concept inherited from Plato and Aristotle. I think 'news of information' (cf Shannon's 'surprise') is related to the symmetry-breaking phenomenon that Pedro and John Collier identified back in 1996 as an essential feature of in-formation at work (where the in- prefix implies the deconstructive force of the Greek 'ana' (as in the verb _anamorpheoin_, to transform by breaking down the shape). Without the antisymmetric force of 'news' difference does not become a dynamic phenomenon (as in differentiation) but remains a speculative abstraction (like 'drawing a distinction'). The key question for IS is - to what , for whom and how is the difference made. John H ----- Original Message ----- From:y...@pku.edu.cn To: Cc: Sent:Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:52:40 +0800 Subject:Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 Dear Pedro, Dear Joseph, About the Milton Keynes Conference, i.e., about DTMD definition, we saw this quote long long ago, but there two different sayings: One is "Information is a distinction that makes a difference" from Donald M. MacKay in his "Information, Mechanism and Meaning" (1969), and another is "Information is a difference that makes a difference" from Gregory Bateson in his "Steps to an Ecology of Mind" (1972). Although I have checked it page by page in Donald M. MacKay's book but can't found it, whereas it is easy to find "Information is a difference that makes a difference" in Gregory Bateson's "Steps to an Ecology of Mind" at page 230, 361, 339, etc., who can tell the accurate priority about DTMD? Best wishes, Xueshan 16:49, April 14, 2013 Peking University > -----Original Message----- > From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es > [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of > fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 12:00 AM > To: fis@listas.unizar.es > Subject: fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 > > Send fis mailing list submissions to > fis@listas.unizar.es > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fis-requ...@listas.unizar.es > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fis-ow...@listas.unizar.es > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific than "Re: Contents of fis digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (joe.bren...@bluewin.ch) > 2. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ) > 3. Re: FIS News (Moscow 2013) (Gyorgy Darvas) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 17:11:58 +0000 (GMT+00:00) > From: "joe.bren...@bluewin.ch" > Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) > To: , > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > > Dear Pedro, > > Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, > expressive, containing much information . . . > > Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about the > the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the Milton > Keynes Conference. > > Best wishes, > > Joseph > > ----Message d'origine---- > De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > Date: 12.04.2013 11:02 > À: > Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) > > Dear FIS Friends, > > Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said several > times, my science management duties are killing not only my > time but also my nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine what > is happening with the financing and organization of Spanish > science these years... > > Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information > Science endeavor. First, there has been an excellent > conference in Milton Keynes, organized by the Open > University, about Information ("the difference that makes a > difference"). Quite exciting discussions on our most dear > themes, and some new ones that we have rarely addressed here. > The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially > invited to lead a discussion session in our FIS list to > continue with the conceptual explorations addressed in their > conference. > > And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, > MOSCOW 2013, the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS > organization. It will be held this May, from 21 to 24 in > Moscow. This time the Russian organizers have followed a > singular procedure, a relatively closed conference centered > in the diffusion of information science in the Russian > scientific community. At the time being, to my knowledge (I > could not follow very well the process), only the members of > the ISIS board have been enlisted as foreign participants. > But given that there will be several absences, interested FIS > parties might ask about their possible participation. > The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and again I > have to apologize for not having posted this info before > (info glut!). In any case, am sure that our colleague > Konstantin Kolin ( koli...@mail.ru ), leading organizer, and > member of the Russian Academy of Science, will be happy to > respond to interested parties and help them to accelerate the process. > > Best wishes to all > > ---Pedro > > ------------------------------------------------- > Pedro C. Marijuán > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto > Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación > Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 ( 6818) > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > ------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > fis mailing list > fis@listas.unizar.es > https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://webmail.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20130412/ 48 > 3aa53f/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 10:26:41 +0200 > From: PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ > Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) > To: fis@listas.unizar.es > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Joseph and FIS colleagues, > > Thanks for the friendly message. Let me introduce you all the > organizing team of the Open University conference: Magnus > Ramage, David Chapman, and Chris Bissell --they did a great > job there and we are fortunate that they have joined our list > too. As I invited them during the conference, they could > chair our next discussion session, in a few weeks or days if > they wish. A short text of around 500 or 800 words with some > focus in themes discussed at Milton Keynes would suffice to > kick off the discussion. As other people have recently joined > the list, all of them should remind our strict limitation of > a maximum of two messages per week. This is a list > emphasizing "slow thinking" and scholarship. > > By the way, my management experience during all these months > has lead me to think and start work on a new theme: the > information flow in complex organizations. The properties or > limits of natural communication (conversation) in our social > groups determine the structural patterns of complex > bureaucratic organizations... terrible committees included! > Next weeks I will post more on that. > > best wishes > > --Pedro > > > > > ----- Mensaje original ----- > De: "joe.bren...@bluewin.ch" > Fecha: Viernes, 12 de Abril de 2013, 7:12 pm > Asunto: RE: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) > A: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es, fis@listas.unizar.es > > < Dear Pedro, > > > > Glad to hear from you. Your silence was, of course, > expressive, containing much information . . . > > > > Now all of us will be waiting impatiently to learn about > the the new, exciting themes that were discussed at the > Milton Keynes Conference. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Joseph > > > > ----Message d'origine---- > > De: pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > Date: 12.04.2013 11:02 > > À: > > Objet: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) > > > > Dear FIS Friends, > > > > Apologies for my long silence. As I have already said > several times, > > my science management duties are killing not only my time > but also my > > nerve (well, not completely!). Imagine what is happening with the > > financing and organization of Spanish science these years.. > > > > Anyhow, a couple of good news about our common Information Science > > endeavor. First, there has been an excellent conference in Milton > > Keynes, organized by the Open University, about Information ("the > > difference that makes a difference"). Quite exciting discussions on > > our most dear themes, and some new ones that we have rarely > addressed here. > > The organizers, a very active team indeed, are cordially invited to > > lead a discussion session in our FIS list to continue with the > > conceptual explorations addressed in their conference. > > > > And the second news is about an imminent FIS CONFERENCE, > MOSCOW 2013, > > the Sixth FIS, and the 1st of the ISIS organization. It > will be held > > this May, from 21 to 24 in Moscow. This time the Russian organizers > > have followed a singular procedure, a relatively closed conference > > centered in the diffusion of information science in the Russian > > scientific community. At the time being, to my knowledge > (I could not > > follow very well the process), only the members of the ISIS > board have > > been enlisted as foreign participants. But given that there will be > > several absences, interested FIS parties might ask about > their possible participation. > > The schedule is too tight for travels, visas etc, and again > I have to > > apologize for not having posted this info before (info > glut!). In any > > case, am sure that our colleague Konstantin Kolin ( > koli...@mail.ru > > ), leading organizer, and member of the Russian Academy of Science, > > will be happy to respond to interested parties and help them to > > accelerate the process. > > > > Best wishes to all > > > > ---Pedro > > > > ------------------------------------------------- > > Pedro C. Marijuán > > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group Instituto > Aragonés de > > Ciencias de la Salud Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón > > (CIBA) Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X > > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain > > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) > > pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es > > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > fis mailing list > > fis@listas.unizar.es > > https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://webmail.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20130413/ d0 > f2fc57/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:28:45 +0200 > From: Gyorgy Darvas > Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS News (Moscow 2013) > To: joe.bren...@bluewin.ch, , > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://webmail.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20130413/ 24 > efe12f/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > fis mailing list > fis@listas.unizar.es > https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > End of fis Digest, Vol 570, Issue 2 > *********************************** > _______________________________________________ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis Links: ------ [1] http://www.oikos.org/angelsfear.htm#introduction
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