Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
Great news indeed, maybe finally we can drop that crappy flash ide :] What have you meant here? I read the article and there was no word on droping the flash ide. Me, by myself i like it very much, and i believe Adobe will continue tu update and launch new releases of it. Haven't you seen what will the next generation of Flash ide bring to us=IK and much more. I think the project is called FLash Diesel , if you want to check it. But indeed it is great this idea of expanding the use of Flash player. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Patrick J. Jankun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, seems Adobe makes a big turn! Anybody ready that already? Great news indeed, maybe finally we can drop that crappy flash ide :] http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200804/050108AdobeOSP.html -- fancy skills to pay the bills www.jankun.org Phone: +43 660 96 969 - 01 web:jankun.org mail: p[at]jankun.org ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Pedro D.K. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
Try to manage a bigger project with it That's why they made FlexBuilder. - Original Message - From: Patrick J. Jankun [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen! I mean with it, that after making flash player and swf flv formats opensource, adobe would make the dev of new features and version a lot faster, as well the scene can make their own ide, and have not to w8t for adobe, which is actually good thing. Truth, no one can hold with OpenSource software if u look how fast an product is evolving in this enviroment, and how it evolves in a closedsource, and by all means, flash player should be opensourced a way earlier! take a look on where firefox/mozilla is and where IE is, where ie 8 is going in the good direction but it took 10 years to realize that maybe holding to standards is a good thing after all. flash ide is a good software, i can't say it's not, but after AS evolved it it's current state, that IDE is obviously something that stays behind. Try to manage a bigger project with it WITHOUT FlashDevelop or FDT... Cheers, Patrick ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
I mean with it, that after making flash player and swf flv formats opensource, adobe would make the dev of new features and version a lot faster, as well the scene can make their own ide, and have not to w8t for adobe, which is actually good thing. Truth, no one can hold with OpenSource software if u look how fast an product is evolving in this enviroment, and how it evolves in a closedsource, and by all means, flash player should be opensourced a way earlier! take a look on where firefox/mozilla is and where IE is, where ie 8 is going in the good direction but it took 10 years to realize that maybe holding to standards is a good thing after all. flash ide is a good software, i can't say it's not, but after AS evolved it it's current state, that IDE is obviously something that stays behind. Try to manage a bigger project with it WITHOUT FlashDevelop or FDT... Cheers, Patrick On May 2, 2008, at 11:04 AM, Pedro Kostelec wrote: Great news indeed, maybe finally we can drop that crappy flash ide :] What have you meant here? I read the article and there was no word on droping the flash ide. Me, by myself i like it very much, and i believe Adobe will continue tu update and launch new releases of it. Haven't you seen what will the next generation of Flash ide bring to us=IK and much more. I think the project is called FLash Diesel , if you want to check it. But indeed it is great this idea of expanding the use of Flash player. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Patrick J. Jankun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, seems Adobe makes a big turn! Anybody ready that already? Great news indeed, maybe finally we can drop that crappy flash ide :] http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200804/050108AdobeOSP.html -- fancy skills to pay the bills www.jankun.org Phone: +43 660 96 969 - 01 web:jankun.org mail: p[at]jankun.org ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Pedro D.K. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- fancy skills to pay the bills www.jankun.org Phone: +43 660 96 969 - 01 web:jankun.org mail: p[at]jankun.org ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
I am not sure I agree entirely with you here. Whilst I believe that Open Source software has so much to offer, I cannot believe that an Open Source version of the Flash IDE would provide such a rich feature set AND work as well as the IDE without a significant investment in time and effort. If you think about the time and effort invested into the IDE itself to get where it is today, how many open source projects with IDE's have that sort of longevity or investment? Eclipse, the various flavours of OS and Open Office spring to mind, but I think one of the driving points behind this factor is the demand for these tools. Even with it's popularity, I don't think Flash has the same level of demand. I think you are speaking from a programmers viewpoint. The Flash IDE is not just for programmers and has primarily evolved from a visual tool. Whilst some of the programming features may not be upto scratch with other systems out there, look at the way the actionscript panel works - it has always been aimed at getting stuff working and making it easier for non-programmers to achieve some of their ideas. As ActionScript has got stricter, the ActionScript panel has possibly not kept up with this. But, Adobe recognised this and came up with Flex Builder, which is aimed at developers. On a tangent, I personally feel that Flex Builder takes a lot of ideas from Dreamweaver, but because of Eclipse, has a better underpinning of tools for developers. However, it is not possible to satisfy everyone, especially hard core developers, animators, etc. who often pick big holes in the IDE, (and other tools), because the IDE works for the majority. Already there are alternatives that offer what people are looking for. Look at Flash Develop for the PC - I know that this is not Cross Platform, but there are tools for Mac users Linux people that do similar stuff. And there are other tools which enable people to produce SWF's that can be used in projects too - Moho is an animation tool that has had IK for a while and exports to SWF, I guess Adobe realised that some of the animation stuff needed work, because we are getting IK in the next version... What I do think is with this opening up of source / formats is that there will be more opportunity for developing specialist tools which cover some of the IDE's functionality, but I can't see a Flash IDE killer coming, although it would be nice to see some good quality Linux flavoured tools - personally I am not in a hurry to get rid of my Flash IDE, but I am not in a hurry to use Vista, so would welcome the chance to switch to Linux - not dissing Mac's, but pricing is an issue for me here. Anyway, a lot of what I have said is only an opinion, so I may be totally off base, but my point is that the IDE may have it's faults, but it's still probably the best tool out there for combining animation, graphics, video and stuff, but like you I also prefer to use other tools to write code unless I am spiking stuff that requires both graphics and code. -- Glen Pike 01326 218440 www.glenpike.co.uk http://www.glenpike.co.uk ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
All well said. One other nugget to add to this conversation: Adobe is not open sourcing these proprietary formats, but rather removing certain licensing restrictions and opening the format itself to certain selected partners for the improvement and advancement of the platforms. For more on this topic: http://www.adobe.com/openscreenproject/developers/ Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer _ http://blog.cutterscrossing.com Glen Pike wrote: I am not sure I agree entirely with you here. Whilst I believe that Open Source software has so much to offer, I cannot believe that an Open Source version of the Flash IDE would provide such a rich feature set AND work as well as the IDE without a significant investment in time and effort. If you think about the time and effort invested into the IDE itself to get where it is today, how many open source projects with IDE's have that sort of longevity or investment? Eclipse, the various flavours of OS and Open Office spring to mind, but I think one of the driving points behind this factor is the demand for these tools. Even with it's popularity, I don't think Flash has the same level of demand. I think you are speaking from a programmers viewpoint. The Flash IDE is not just for programmers and has primarily evolved from a visual tool. Whilst some of the programming features may not be upto scratch with other systems out there, look at the way the actionscript panel works - it has always been aimed at getting stuff working and making it easier for non-programmers to achieve some of their ideas. As ActionScript has got stricter, the ActionScript panel has possibly not kept up with this. But, Adobe recognised this and came up with Flex Builder, which is aimed at developers. On a tangent, I personally feel that Flex Builder takes a lot of ideas from Dreamweaver, but because of Eclipse, has a better underpinning of tools for developers. However, it is not possible to satisfy everyone, especially hard core developers, animators, etc. who often pick big holes in the IDE, (and other tools), because the IDE works for the majority. Already there are alternatives that offer what people are looking for. Look at Flash Develop for the PC - I know that this is not Cross Platform, but there are tools for Mac users Linux people that do similar stuff. And there are other tools which enable people to produce SWF's that can be used in projects too - Moho is an animation tool that has had IK for a while and exports to SWF, I guess Adobe realised that some of the animation stuff needed work, because we are getting IK in the next version... What I do think is with this opening up of source / formats is that there will be more opportunity for developing specialist tools which cover some of the IDE's functionality, but I can't see a Flash IDE killer coming, although it would be nice to see some good quality Linux flavoured tools - personally I am not in a hurry to get rid of my Flash IDE, but I am not in a hurry to use Vista, so would welcome the chance to switch to Linux - not dissing Mac's, but pricing is an issue for me here. Anyway, a lot of what I have said is only an opinion, so I may be totally off base, but my point is that the IDE may have it's faults, but it's still probably the best tool out there for combining animation, graphics, video and stuff, but like you I also prefer to use other tools to write code unless I am spiking stuff that requires both graphics and code. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
FWIW, Adobe is also going to open the .fla file format: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/03/flash_moving_to.html Cheers, Claus. Cutter (FlashRelated) wrote: All well said. One other nugget to add to this conversation: Adobe is not open sourcing these proprietary formats, but rather removing certain licensing restrictions and opening the format itself to certain selected partners for the improvement and advancement of the platforms. For more on this topic: http://www.adobe.com/openscreenproject/developers/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
On May 2, 2008, at 2:52 PM, Glen Pike wrote: I am not sure I agree entirely with you here. Whilst I believe that Open Source software has so much to offer, I cannot believe that an Open Source version of the Flash IDE would provide such a rich feature set AND work as well as the IDE without a significant investment in time and effort. If you think about the time and effort invested into the IDE itself to get where it is today, how many open source projects with IDE's have that sort of longevity or investment? Eclipse, the various flavours of OS and Open Office spring to mind, but I think one of the driving points behind this factor is the demand for these tools. Even with it's popularity, I don't think Flash has the same level of demand. I think you are speaking from a programmers viewpoint. The Flash IDE is not just for programmers and has primarily evolved from a visual tool. I actually meant the huge gap between flash cs3 ide and flex builder 3. Adobe totally left flash ide based designers with programming skills and popped up with a tool i needed 3 days to get through the initial setup and learn how the big differences in working with flash ide .fla based projects and flex builder 3 projects and still have problems to understand a lot of flash cs3 -- flex 3 connectivity i know i know, thermo is coming and is promising to fill the gap.. of course flash ide as to this day is the ONLY one providing an .fla, so we can't actually have any comparable alternative. so i wouldn't say there is no flash ide killer on it's way Whilst some of the programming features may not be upto scratch with other systems out there, look at the way the actionscript panel works - it has always been aimed at getting stuff working and making it easier for non-programmers to achieve some of their ideas. As ActionScript has got stricter, the ActionScript panel has possibly not kept up with this. I feel like being slapped on back of my head by adobe, telling me you are an designer so stay with flash ide, and if u are developer switch to flex, i mean why should i feel that im left behind? i know the ide from bottom to the top, but programming with it is a huge pain, it's editor didn't changed since 8 to CS3, why is that? if they knew they gonna release an dev tool strict for developers (cause i wouldn't tell that flex is for designers) why didnt they made the ide ability to handle the demand of designers with some programming skills (as we all know you simply can't do things only with timeline based animation, or you will need a year for an navigation menu with some levels) im actually a typical designer, who stuffed his nose into programming after release of as3, first time i've seen the as2 -- as3 swap, i thought that there is something really really wrong. i needed an complete reset and forgetting all about as2, and learned as3 from scratch. as2 is somehow barley an programming language, where as3 drops you on the real OOP with it's roots in Java's Syntax. I know that a lot of ppl will laugh about me telling as3 is a real language a sin, but hey, i didn't never used something other then some basic JavaScript and as2 my entire life, so for me, as3 is indeed an programming language. But, Adobe recognised this and came up with Flex Builder, which is aimed at developers. On a tangent, I personally feel that Flex Builder takes a lot of ideas from Dreamweaver, but because of Eclipse, has a better underpinning of tools for developers. However, it is not possible to satisfy everyone, especially hard core developers, animators, etc. who often pick big holes in the IDE, (and other tools), because the IDE works for the majority. Already there are alternatives that offer what people are looking for. Im lucky they didnt want to invent the wheel 2 times, as eclipse is an quite good product, and i it has it's isses and pains, but it's running on ppl's computers since some time, and a lot of ppl simply get used to it. so building flex on top of eclipse was not that bad idea in my opinion. Look at Flash Develop for the PC - I know that this is not Cross Platform, but there are tools for Mac users Linux people that do similar stuff. And there are other tools which enable people to produce SWF's that can be used in projects too - Moho is an animation tool that has had IK for a while and exports to SWF, I guess Adobe realised that some of the animation stuff needed work, because we are getting IK in the next version... Wow, they took the After Effects features and put those into Flash IDE, something really amazing. I find myself the AE interface and approach a way better then the Flash IDE, still using both is not that different in its basics, but AE got some really nasty features i will be happy to se in Flash IDE, let's hope the next version would have a better programming interface/editor, as
[Flashcoders] Adobe Open Screen!
Wow, seems Adobe makes a big turn! Anybody ready that already? Great news indeed, maybe finally we can drop that crappy flash ide :] http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200804/050108AdobeOSP.html -- fancy skills to pay the bills www.jankun.org Phone: +43 660 96 969 - 01 web:jankun.org mail: p[at]jankun.org ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
