Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Hi Alan, On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 10:50:11PM -0500, Alan King wrote: Yep, here is a picture of my CNC/driller. I wanted mostly metal, all cheap hardware store components, and just drill hole assembly, no slotting etc. I have a large electronics inventory, and have about 400 stepper motors on hand and 2K mosfets and my own intelligent 4 and 5 phase stepper motor controller/driver board. Also while you're at it hit the beacon file, it looks good and I've now built much bigger one, note it's a 3 MB mpg.. http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/CNC.jpg Do you have more pictures of your CNC ? Is the part that the steppers are mounted on some kind of plastic ? I'd like to see more pics of the details how you built your CNC :) It's just being built. But it did hit me looking at it last night that Windows handles 2 mice ok with both moving the pointer, just have it USB and plug it in and leave the normal mouse alone. Must have some scaling though, FlightGear is very touchy with my normal 400 dpi mouse. First dot over from center is a noticable jump, more than it should be. You can set the mouse resolution down in windows, or alternatively, you could change the scaling of the mouse axes in flightgear. (XML file) http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/rudder.gif have. Bellcrank has bearing at center, and the little squares are where to put teflon pads from a mouse. The other short piece is cut from the Instead of teflon pads, you could use the material that those (usually white) bread cutting boards are made of. That material is relatively good to work with (sharp knife :) and are widely available. Its something that I've seen from one cockpitbuilder use and now others are using it as well, like me. ...and its not as tiny as the teflon pads from a mouse :-) bellcrank board, and is underneath the guide plates with teflon on top. Guide plates are captured and keep torque forces off the single rails. But, had far better idea. Move bellcrank to under the guide plates. Use the short piece on top, and have the 1/4-20 bellcrank axle screw into it from the bottom, and not penetrate it. That way all wood showing, crank and rods are hidden. Guide plates only have a 1/4 gap where the axle comes through to support the top bar. Stained, this should look way better than most homemade jobs easily, maybe better than the made ones. Oh yeah extra hole or holes near the end of bellcrank is through it, the guide plate, and partically through bottom plate. Drop in a peg and locks in place to make a less shifty footrest when not in use. These may look so good I'll have to start selling some on Ebay! :) Post some pictures of the rudder when you are getting there :-) http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke1.jpg http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/yoke2.jpg Note in yoke1, that opening with tab for the clam is already there. Simply clamp the bearing. At the other bearing, see the wider screw slot? Two dremel cuts with a grinding wheel will make it a tab too for the other clamp. Note that you need 2 more dremel cuts to cut the corners of the bracket so it can rotate, corners are what's holding that bracket from falling over. Four cut mechanical solution. Mouse goes on bracket, control goes at end of threaded rod. This is upside down, and note that mouse will be the first thing to hit, so may need a metal bar across the bracket a bit wider than the mouse to hit first. Likely PVC tube heated, bent, and molded slightly to grip shape to make the control. Wrap in tennis grip etc, and hang it on a slope board with sides. Rest of the buttons and controls are easy after this, and relocate mouse wheel for other use like elevator trim. Do you plan on something like a centering mechanism, so that there is a force that'll push the controls into the center positions ? Electronics will be easy, but we really need a good simple serial format that FlightGear understands and can map to any controls. 19,200 serial with 16 axes and 4 or 8 bytes should be enough, then let me use XML config to tell which byte maps to which control. Everyone has a serial port, it works in XP, and it's easy to do the hardware. Heck have FG output on the serial too and run gagues etc. Haven't looked at that FG programming side of it too much yet though, but the micro side for the controls is simple.. The protocol and hooking it up to fgfs should be the easiest part compared to coming up and building the hardware. Thanks for the detailed descriptions :) Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel]F-16 cockpit)
Electronics will be easy, but we really need a good simple serial format that FlightGear understands and can map to any controls. 19,200 serial with 16 axes and 4 or 8 bytes should be enough, then let me use XML config to tell which byte maps to which control. Everyone has a serial port, it works in XP, and it's easy to do the hardware. Heck have FG output on the serial too and run gagues etc. Haven't looked at that FG programming side of it too much yet though, but the micro side for the controls is simple.. Take a look at www.opengc.org. All the stuff to build the displays is there. You'll have to write your own routines for specific F-16 displays. And there is an interface to FG you can tweak to meet your requirements. Regards John W. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Manuel Bessler wrote: Hi Alan, Do you have more pictures of your CNC ? Is the part that the steppers are mounted on some kind of plastic ? I'd like to see more pics of the details how you built your CNC :) Not yet, and yes they're 50 cent plastic electrical boxes for mounts. You can set the mouse resolution down in windows, or alternatively, you could change the scaling of the mouse axes in flightgear. (XML file) Yep found the scaling last night, the yoke scaling will be easy. Haven't figured out the mouse wheel rolling event name yet though.. Instead of teflon pads, you could use the material that those (usually white) bread cutting boards are made of. That material is relatively good to work with (sharp knife :) and are widely available. Its something that I've seen from one cockpitbuilder use and now others are using it as well, like me. ...and its not as tiny as the teflon pads from a mouse :-) Well there is plenty of leverage, so there will be very little force on the guides. The four pads can be gotten from an old dead mouse, I have a hundred mice or so laying around. If the mouse has strips, scissors are all you need since it really only needs a 1/4 piece. Really the wood works fine alone, but the teflon will reduce the wood sliding noise. Post some pictures of the rudder when you are getting there :-) Yep will be coming soon as they're made. The yoke is rediculously easy, I've reduced it to where there are no cuts. Well two cuts, but they are optional and just to shorten the unused part of the drawer slide so the whole thing will be smaller, none for bearing mounting. If I'm found dead within the next year or so, suspect a CH Products shareholder.. :) I bet that if I put up a complete webpage with how easy this is and detailed instructions, there will be at least 1000 made in the first year after the word gets around, maybe even 10,000. It is very easy, and has a very precise mechanical feel unlike most $100 bought products. The mouse is also just going to pop into a mouse pocket like holder, so you just pop it back out for normal use when you're not using the yoke. And no 4 pipe, a section of a 2 litre soda bottle or other cheap grocery container works fine since there's no force with the mouse gliding around it. Do you plan on something like a centering mechanism, so that there is a force that'll push the controls into the center positions ? Yep had a few minor errors and omissions in that first post, it was late. The bracket/mouse centers the yoke, maybe even extra weight to the bracket. Slide will need some type of springing though. Same for rudder centering. They are easy though after the functional design is optimized. The protocol and hooking it up to fgfs should be the easiest part compared to coming up and building the hardware. Yes I think so too now. Yoke is a mouse, and rudders have a controller. Actually I think the rudder controller will sit between the yoke mouse and the PC, and just insert left button down mouse rudder commands when needed. Same controller could do the same and issue mouse throttle and a bunch of other stuff as well. One problem with FlightGear needs to be changed though. When you hold button to move the rudder/throttle, motion is fine. But when the button goes up the cross hair should center back to where it was when the button was pressed to change the mode. As it is, it re-zeros so the end position is the new position for the previous alierons/elevator, but the cursor and mouse are moved to a way different position. I can live with the mouse being elsewhere although it eventually makes it off the pad. But the cursor ends up over the toolbars etc instead of snapping back to the relative middle of the screen. Maybe there is a setting for it. Also would be nice to just turn the cursor off in control move mode, so it doesn't distract in night flying especially and isn't moving over other items. It would be better with no cursor and only watching the instruments/external visuals. Whether the mouse and cursor rezero etc on mode change should be in the control file. Hmm maybe it is just haven't seen it yet, I need to type up some documentation on use as I get them figured a few things are a bit sparse.. Thanks for the detailed descriptions :) No problem, thought I'd save you some work laying out the rudders especially since I'd already just laid them out and gotten the functions working well. Alan ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel]F-16 cockpit)
John Wojnaroski wrote: Take a look at www.opengc.org. All the stuff to build the displays is there. You'll have to write your own routines for specific F-16 displays. And there is an interface to FG you can tweak to meet your requirements. I think I've convinced myself to not even work on it for the moment though. An LCD panel mounted around keyboard range with a panel display would do 90% of it with just the focusing attention in and out, so I'll keep to just basic controls only for now no need for a full cockpit. If one goes full out and make an exact cockpit placement for getting the control switch feel right etc it'd be great. But I'm thinking a 'real' panel but with all controls not in exact locations for a particular plane would be of limited use over just an LCD instrument display and generic controls. May still hook a gague or two up just to see, could be a better thing than I'm thinking off hand. Basic controls come first for now, control seperation clearly will be extremely useful even if the controls aren't in an exact placement to the real aircraft. A full cockpit sometime would be neat though. Alan ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 09:52:52PM +, David Luff wrote: mode joking=on Actually, we just want you to work on the flightgear core and not be sidetracked by drooling over hardware stuff others are building. Believe me, it can be addicting just looking at what others are building. :- /mode Ah, that reminds me, must give up programming for a bit and get those rudder pedals made :-) Mine are waiting for some good ideas. I'm not yet satisfied with them :-) Seriously though, I'd be quite happy to see a flightgear-hardware list, I'd be much more inclined to throw out PIC problems and general hardware musings to a dedicated list than to pollute the already busy FG list with Thats exactly what I am thinking. them. Having said that, I'm quite happy to see hardware-related discussions on this list whilst you don't have one. Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 03:40:54AM -0500, Alan King wrote: time. Just show those (mostly ignorant) MSFS crowds what flightgear can do :-) Just joined the list myself and this was one of only a few main reasons. I was drawing up homemade control system hardware this afternoon. Welcome Alan :) You showed up just at the right time. The hardware building thread started just a couple of days ago... :-) I think I have the rudder pedals down to the bare minimum for correct control, linear rudder and proportional toe brakes but only using 2 drawer slides for minimum cost and only drilled holes for easy assembly, no slots in a bellcrank etc. Yoke is just a sloped cabinet with a drawer slide underneath, two bearings mounted on this with a threaded drawer slides are pretty interesting for cockpit building. We used them for our XYZ table. http://cockpit.varxec.de/tools/ You can find them in any good home improvement store (or at home if you wanna get rid of some old funiture ;) rod running through with the yoke. Fixed to the rod is an angle bracket, 2.5 out then several over, with an optical mouse attached. Sectioned 4 pipe fixed concentric to the rod with a pattern attached to the outside. With 2 in and out travel and 120 deg for roll it should the 120 deg, is that 60 in each direction, or 120 in each dir ? My yoke (747 style) has 180 deg total, so 90 in each dir. I have a several minutes long cockpit video from the net of a LH 747-400 where you can see the flightcontrols check. There the yoke went from -90 to +90 deg. give about 4 by 4 mouse travel around the pipe, for 1600 points total resolution on each axis, scaled down to reasonable for output. $10 optical mouse is the only part not absolute minimum cost, but with high res and all optical and a wheel to relocate for other use I think it's an ok trade off. Throttle and the rest are no real problem after that. Do you use that mouse as the primary mouse for fgfs for mouse yoke mode (what you get when you right click once in fgfs) or did you write a joystick driver for it ? The nice thing about using the mouse is, that the resolution is much better than with a potentiometer. Will have a port to hook in my RC transmitter and multiple output formats, so I can fly either RC trans or yoke/pedals for Flightgear or FMS. Also since I need a slope cabinet for the yoke anyway, turn it around and the back side will be a dual joystick MAME controller for two players or dual joystick for Robotron 2084 etc. Trying to make it all in one so I only have ONE extra controller to have laying around! :) Should come in under $50-$60 for just the yoke/pedals part, I do PICs as well so that part's easy. The $200ish for the CH stuff really isn't that bad, but I'm going to make some for a couple friends as well. I'd rather have something that feels rock solid over a plastic game controller for myself anyway. Plus I can put it on the net and then Do you have any pics of your setup on the web yet ? anyone can go to the hardware store and then build their own cheap good flight controls. Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Manuel Bessler wrote: On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 03:40:54AM -0500, Alan King wrote: time. Just show those (mostly ignorant) MSFS crowds what flightgear can do :-) Just joined the list myself and this was one of only a few main reasons. I was drawing up homemade control system hardware this afternoon. Welcome Alan :) You showed up just at the right time. The hardware building thread started just a couple of days ago... :-) I think I have the rudder pedals down to the bare minimum for correct control, linear rudder and proportional toe brakes but only using 2 drawer slides for minimum cost and only drilled holes for easy assembly, no slots in a bellcrank etc. Yoke is just a sloped cabinet with a drawer slide underneath, two bearings mounted on this with a threaded drawer slides are pretty interesting for cockpit building. We used them for our XYZ table. http://cockpit.varxec.de/tools/ You can find them in any good home improvement store (or at home if you wanna get rid of some old funiture ;) Yep, here is a picture of my CNC/driller. I wanted mostly metal, all cheap hardware store components, and just drill hole assembly, no slotting etc. I have a large electronics inventory, and have about 400 stepper motors on hand and 2K mosfets and my own intelligent 4 and 5 phase stepper motor controller/driver board. Also while you're at it hit the beacon file, it looks good and I've now built much bigger one, note it's a 3 MB mpg.. http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/CNC.jpg http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/Beacon.mpg rod running through with the yoke. Fixed to the rod is an angle bracket, 2.5 out then several over, with an optical mouse attached. Sectioned 4 pipe fixed concentric to the rod with a pattern attached to the outside. With 2 in and out travel and 120 deg for roll it should the 120 deg, is that 60 in each direction, or 120 in each dir ? My yoke (747 style) has 180 deg total, so 90 in each dir. I have a several minutes long cockpit video from the net of a LH 747-400 where you can see the flightcontrols check. There the yoke went from -90 to +90 deg. Well I was just going at least 60 to 60 deg by what a pilot friend had said, actually it will do 180 deg total easily. With a little work, I could use a wireless mouse and even get 360 degrees continuous with the drawer slide going through a complete pipe section. give about 4 by 4 mouse travel around the pipe, for 1600 points total resolution on each axis, scaled down to reasonable for output. $10 optical mouse is the only part not absolute minimum cost, but with high res and all optical and a wheel to relocate for other use I think it's an ok trade off. Throttle and the rest are no real problem after that. Do you use that mouse as the primary mouse for fgfs for mouse yoke mode (what you get when you right click once in fgfs) or did you write a joystick driver for it ? The nice thing about using the mouse is, that the resolution is much better than with a potentiometer. It's just being built. But it did hit me looking at it last night that Windows handles 2 mice ok with both moving the pointer, just have it USB and plug it in and leave the normal mouse alone. Must have some scaling though, FlightGear is very touchy with my normal 400 dpi mouse. First dot over from center is a noticable jump, more than it should be. Will have a port to hook in my RC transmitter and multiple output formats, so I can fly either RC trans or yoke/pedals for Flightgear or FMS. Also since I need a slope cabinet for the yoke anyway, turn it around and the back side will be a dual joystick MAME controller for two players or dual joystick for Robotron 2084 etc. Trying to make it all in one so I only have ONE extra controller to have laying around! :) Should come in under $50-$60 for just the yoke/pedals part, I do PICs as well so that part's easy. The $200ish for the CH stuff really isn't that bad, but I'm going to make some for a couple friends as well. I'd rather have something that feels rock solid over a plastic game controller for myself anyway. Plus I can put it on the net and then Do you have any pics of your setup on the web yet ? I'm just laying things out, but since you're looking and others may have some interest, I put up some drawings/pics. Rudder first: http://home.nc.rr.com/alan69/FlightGear/rudder.gif I follow the KISS design philosophy. Note the gif has parts that aren't in right scale to each other, just the basic idea. OK about 1' front to back, 1' 6 wide for baseplate. Rails are easy to see, and excess rail from the minimum lengths will be cut down. On each rail is a flat guide plate, about 1' by 6. These are to take torqe instead of a second rail, and will be very cheap since you just buy a 4' by 6 finished board, and cut in 4 for both the guides and rudder pedals. Guide is flat, small 2 x 4 sections are vertical over the rails for pedals, see side view.
Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Maybe we're just a few doing flightgear, but that'll certainly change over time. Just show those (mostly ignorant) MSFS crowds what flightgear can do :-) Just joined the list myself and this was one of only a few main reasons. I was drawing up homemade control system hardware this afternoon. I think I have the rudder pedals down to the bare minimum for correct control, linear rudder and proportional toe brakes but only using 2 drawer slides for minimum cost and only drilled holes for easy assembly, no slots in a bellcrank etc. Yoke is just a sloped cabinet with a drawer slide underneath, two bearings mounted on this with a threaded rod running through with the yoke. Fixed to the rod is an angle bracket, 2.5 out then several over, with an optical mouse attached. Sectioned 4 pipe fixed concentric to the rod with a pattern attached to the outside. With 2 in and out travel and 120 deg for roll it should give about 4 by 4 mouse travel around the pipe, for 1600 points total resolution on each axis, scaled down to reasonable for output. $10 optical mouse is the only part not absolute minimum cost, but with high res and all optical and a wheel to relocate for other use I think it's an ok trade off. Throttle and the rest are no real problem after that. Will have a port to hook in my RC transmitter and multiple output formats, so I can fly either RC trans or yoke/pedals for Flightgear or FMS. Also since I need a slope cabinet for the yoke anyway, turn it around and the back side will be a dual joystick MAME controller for two players or dual joystick for Robotron 2084 etc. Trying to make it all in one so I only have ONE extra controller to have laying around! :) Should come in under $50-$60 for just the yoke/pedals part, I do PICs as well so that part's easy. The $200ish for the CH stuff really isn't that bad, but I'm going to make some for a couple friends as well. I'd rather have something that feels rock solid over a plastic game controller for myself anyway. Plus I can put it on the net and then anyone can go to the hardware store and then build their own cheap good flight controls. Alan ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Hi John, On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 03:02:25PM -0800, John Wojnaroski wrote: Hi Manuel, I've also talked to John Wojnaroski, He is also building hardware. Maybe we're just a few doing flightgear, but that'll certainly change over time. Just show those (mostly ignorant) MSFS crowds what flightgear can do :-) Let's just say they suffer from invincible ingnorance ( a theological concept associated with the idea of sin ) Yeah, I know what you mean. If you want to talk off-list about hardware stuff, just email me. I'd be interested in what you are doing. If you would, please include me. With the holidays fast approaching, won't have much time, but starting '04 should be able to free up more time. Still waiting for some AML-22 switches to complete the MCP. OK, No problem. Maybe we should really consider a mailinglist for that as Al has mentioned. Even if it'll be very low traffic. The question would be whether this would/could be hosted officially along the other fgfs list, or if we should set up something independet of flightgear.org Curt? My idea would be something like this: flightgear-hardware -- discussions about hardware interfacing to flightgear, hardware design, and interface software Whadda'y'all think ? Jim Brennan might also be interested. Currently we have a lead on a 737 heading for the chopping block and trying to get our hands on the cockpit. Cool. Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Manuel Bessler writes: OK, No problem. Maybe we should really consider a mailinglist for that as Al has mentioned. Even if it'll be very low traffic. The question would be whether this would/could be hosted officially along the other fgfs list, or if we should set up something independet of flightgear.org Curt? It's not a ton of work to setup a new mailing list, however, you might consider just jumping on board with an existing home cockpit group such as simpits.org. That would make more sense to me since they've already gone to a lot of effort to collect like minded people. My idea would be something like this: flightgear-hardware -- discussions about hardware interfacing to flightgear, hardware design, and interface software Whadda'y'all think ? If there is some overwhelming desire to add a flightgear-hardware list, I can do that, but definitely consider jumping on board with the simpits.org group. They could benefit from your knowledge and resources and I'm sure you could benefit from theirs. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson HumanFIRST Program FlightGear Project Twin Citiescurt 'at' me.umn.edu curt 'at' flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.flightgear.org/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Manuel Bessler writes: OK, No problem. Maybe we should really consider a mailinglist for that as Al has mentioned. Even if it'll be very low traffic. It's not a ton of work to setup a new mailing list, however, you might consider just jumping on board with an existing home cockpit group such as simpits.org. Is there anything wrong with just leaving it on the existing flightgear-devel list? The discussion is low traffic, doesn't seem to be annoying anyone at the moment, touches a lot of FlightGear-specific issues, and is (to me, anyway) generally pretty interesting. Andy -- Andrew J. RossBeyond the OrdinaryPlausibility Productions Sole Proprietor Beneath the Infinite Hillsboro, OR Experience... the Plausible? ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Hi Curt, On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 10:24:36AM -0600, Curtis L. Olson wrote: It's not a ton of work to setup a new mailing list, however, you might consider just jumping on board with an existing home cockpit group such as simpits.org. That would make more sense to me since they've already gone to a lot of effort to collect like minded people. Well, like minded My idea would be something like this: flightgear-hardware -- discussions about hardware interfacing to flightgear, hardware design, and interface software Whadda'y'all think ? If there is some overwhelming desire to add a flightgear-hardware Its up to you, Curt. You'd have to set it up and stuff. I like the idea of having a list along flightgear-devel|user|flightmodel There are lots of lists for MSFS builders, maybe some for Xplane and a couple for the fighter people. I like the idea to have something that is tied to flightgear specifically. list, I can do that, but definitely consider jumping on board with the simpits.org group. They could benefit from your knowledge and resources and I'm sure you could benefit from theirs. I am on the simpits-tech list, but it is mostly fighter jet oriented. Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 10:38:48PM +0100, Manuel Bessler wrote: already gone to a lot of effort to collect like minded people. Well, like minded Ooops, didn't finish my sentence... this should not have been in my reply. I was going to write something like like minded in terms of building, but not like minded about the simulator to drive it (and open sourcing software for it). Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Hi Al, On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 03:17:31AM -, Al West wrote: http://cockpit.varxec.de/electronics/PIC_homecockpit_control.html Wow, what you have done so far looks impressive. I've not even got off the Thanks :-) drawing board yet. At the moment I'm trying to work out the best trade off for hardware components vs. connectivity. However I'm getting drawn in to I've worked on my solution for quite some time. It really takes time designing stuff like that. The current solution grew out of several smaller things that I built. I just thought that I should put everything together and make one big solution out of it that can drive everything you might need in a cockpit. And I think its the cheapest solution out there. And since all the others don't support flightgear (the flightsim world is still so MSFS centered) I thought this is the best way. do a soft key panel using some a touchscreen 7 LCDs that I've just seen, £160 (UK Pounds) is quite tempting. But its so much more fun to actually flip switches and turn knobs :-) Really ;-) It would be interesting to have a place where the hardware people could talk. I'm not sure whether there are many people involved in hardware building around flightgear. So far you are the only person to respond saying you build hardware - not that doesn't mean there are more people there. Maybe it's something that the users would be more interested with. I've also talked to John Wojnaroski, He is also building hardware. Maybe we're just a few doing flightgear, but that'll certainly change over time. Just show those (mostly ignorant) MSFS crowds what flightgear can do :-) If you want to talk off-list about hardware stuff, just email me. I'd be interested in what you are doing. Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: Cockpit Hardware Building (was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit)
Hi Manuel, I've also talked to John Wojnaroski, He is also building hardware. Maybe we're just a few doing flightgear, but that'll certainly change over time. Just show those (mostly ignorant) MSFS crowds what flightgear can do :-) Let's just say they suffer from invincible ingnorance ( a theological concept associated with the idea of sin ) If you want to talk off-list about hardware stuff, just email me. I'd be interested in what you are doing. If you would, please include me. With the holidays fast approaching, won't have much time, but starting '04 should be able to free up more time. Still waiting for some AML-22 switches to complete the MCP. Jim Brennan might also be interested. Currently we have a lead on a 737 heading for the chopping block and trying to get our hands on the cockpit. Regards John W. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit
Hi Manuel, I'm currently working on my own hardware that I'm going to connect to flightgear. It has a RS-232 serial port with USB option. Currently I'm busy writing the firmware and host software. http://cockpit.varxec.de/electronics/PIC_homecockpit_control.html Wow, what you have done so far looks impressive. I've not even got off the drawing board yet. At the moment I'm trying to work out the best trade off for hardware components vs. connectivity. However I'm getting drawn in to do a soft key panel using some a touchscreen 7 LCDs that I've just seen, £160 (UK Pounds) is quite tempting. I don't know if this is the right place to be discussing this (is the devel mail-list intended for software development? If so could a hardware development mail-list be set up?). It would be interesting to have a place where the hardware people could talk. I'm not sure whether there are many people involved in hardware building around flightgear. So far you are the only person to respond saying you build hardware - not that doesn't mean there are more people there. Maybe it's something that the users would be more interested with. Cheers for now, Al --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 05/12/2003 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit
Al, go take a peek at www.simpits.org g. On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Very nice piece of kit - but a little costly. I've been toying with the idea of building my own generic single seat cockpit unit. I do MIDI, LCD, Serial and Keyboard interface controllers. Recently I've got hold of some USB chips and have been planning to make some control panels for FlightGear. I'm wondering how many people would be interested in developing some 'open-source' hardware for FlightGear? We have facilities here including precision CNC milling and drilling, circuit board fabrication and welding. I'd be quite happy to do general control panels at a price little over cost or provide the circuit board and chips. I'm not too familar on how FlightGear handles inputs and frankly I don't want to start getting involved in developing software on the 'other' side on the control panel. I think USB would be a good choice of interface as it would allow for flexible configuration over time. My rough ideas for a generic cockpit would be based on a tubular aliminium frame and supporting structure for displays, PC and controls, with optional plywood cladding for the outside. Internally panels would be held with a steel frame supporting structure. My aims are to make the cockpit as simple to build as possible. This should be easier to achieve if taking a generic approach rather than trying to model the cockpit on a actual aircraft. I don't know if this is the right place to be discussing this (is the devel mail-list intended for software development? If so could a hardware development mail-list be set up?). I'd be happy to hear from anyone interested, even if it's only ideas at this point in time. All the best, Al Quoting Jon Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: F-16 cockpit: http://www.aimsworth.com/ Jon -- Project Coordinator JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model http://www.jsbsim.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit
Hi Al, On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 06:11:06AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Very nice piece of kit - but a little costly. I've been toying with the idea of building my own generic single seat cockpit unit. I do MIDI, LCD, Serial and Keyboard interface controllers. Recently I've got hold of some USB chips and have been planning to make some control panels for FlightGear. I'm wondering how many people would be interested in developing some 'open-source' hardware for FlightGear? We have facilities here including precision CNC I'm currently working on my own hardware that I'm going to connect to flightgear. It has a RS-232 serial port with USB option. Currently I'm busy writing the firmware and host software. http://cockpit.varxec.de/electronics/PIC_homecockpit_control.html milling and drilling, circuit board fabrication and welding. I'd be quite happy to do general control panels at a price little over cost or provide the circuit board and chips. My prototype PCBs are home-made with the toner transfer method. (pics of that process are also available at my site) I don't know if this is the right place to be discussing this (is the devel mail-list intended for software development? If so could a hardware development mail-list be set up?). It would be interesting to have a place where the hardware people could talk. I'm not sure whether there are many people involved in hardware building around flightgear. I'd be happy to hear from anyone interested, even if it's only ideas at this point in time. Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-16 cockpit
Hi, Very nice piece of kit - but a little costly. I've been toying with the idea of building my own generic single seat cockpit unit. I do MIDI, LCD, Serial and Keyboard interface controllers. Recently I've got hold of some USB chips and have been planning to make some control panels for FlightGear. I'm wondering how many people would be interested in developing some 'open-source' hardware for FlightGear? We have facilities here including precision CNC milling and drilling, circuit board fabrication and welding. I'd be quite happy to do general control panels at a price little over cost or provide the circuit board and chips. I'm not too familar on how FlightGear handles inputs and frankly I don't want to start getting involved in developing software on the 'other' side on the control panel. I think USB would be a good choice of interface as it would allow for flexible configuration over time. My rough ideas for a generic cockpit would be based on a tubular aliminium frame and supporting structure for displays, PC and controls, with optional plywood cladding for the outside. Internally panels would be held with a steel frame supporting structure. My aims are to make the cockpit as simple to build as possible. This should be easier to achieve if taking a generic approach rather than trying to model the cockpit on a actual aircraft. I don't know if this is the right place to be discussing this (is the devel mail-list intended for software development? If so could a hardware development mail-list be set up?). I'd be happy to hear from anyone interested, even if it's only ideas at this point in time. All the best, Al Quoting Jon Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: F-16 cockpit: http://www.aimsworth.com/ Jon -- Project Coordinator JSBSim Flight Dynamics Model http://www.jsbsim.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
