Re: [Flightgear-devel] [RFC] ac3d and materials

2009-03-20 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi, On Thursday 19 March 2009 12:57:17 gerard robin wrote: Since i have not followed that topic may be a stupid question: will that animation longer working typematerial/type emission factor-propcontrols/lighting/instruments-norm/factor-prop

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [RFC] ac3d and materials

2009-03-20 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi Heiko, On Thursday 19 March 2009 14:11:30 Heiko Schulz wrote: what does that mean in future for me as 3d-modeller? What I have to change when using Blender? Since I do not know blender too much, I cannot give blender specific hints. But in general, I would say: Just go on like you are

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [RFC] ac3d and materials

2009-03-20 Thread Detlef Faber
Am Donnerstag, den 19.03.2009, 13:11 + schrieb Heiko Schulz: Hello, what does that mean in future for me as 3d-modeller? What I have to change when using Blender? To get the same results as before you just need to change the Ambient Value to 1.0. You find it in the Material Buttons

[Flightgear-devel] 787 disappeared from download page

2009-03-20 Thread YOSHIMATSU Toshihide
Hi all, I'm new to devel mailing list. After 1.9.0 released, some users in FlightGear forum reported that 787 aircraft disappeared from download page. For more detail, please refer to my post in the forum. http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2t=3242#p29432 I guess either of CVS

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [RFC] ac3d and materials

2009-03-20 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi, yes, it seems to me, that time was passing real fast since the old plib-days! I have to wait until I have a new binary, then I will change my models. Thanks for the helpfull answers Regards HHS Hello, what does that mean in future for me as 3d-modeller? What I have to change when using

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Atmosphere temperature model

2009-03-20 Thread Lauri Peltonen
You could have saved yourself a lot of work by posting a question before writing all this code. I don't mind that, because it was just fun to do that. And I wasn't going to do a temperature model in the first place, but somehow ended up doing that :) The code to do all this has existed for

Re: [Flightgear-devel] data/tanker.nas

2009-03-20 Thread alex
SNIP - vary callsign TACAN id - support more than just KC135 and KA6 tanker - support helicopter refueling (i.e. configurable airspeed) - fly refueling pattern(?) - avoid collisions with mountains m. The Handley Page Victor K2 is not too far from completion. It already has the ability to

Re: [Flightgear-devel] data/tanker.nas

2009-03-20 Thread Stuart Buchanan
alex wrote: - vary callsign TACAN id - support more than just KC135 and KA6 tanker - support helicopter refueling (i.e. configurable airspeed) - fly refueling pattern(?) - avoid collisions with mountains m. The Handley Page Victor K2 is not too far from completion. It already has

Re: [Flightgear-devel] data/tanker.nas

2009-03-20 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* alex -- Friday 20 March 2009: * * Melchior FRANZ -- Monday 16 March 2009: - vary callsign TACAN id That's done. (Even a bit overengineered. ;-) - support more than just KC135 and KA6 tanker - support helicopter refueling (i.e. configurable airspeed) or generally: - allow aircraft to

[Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Melchior FRANZ
This will probably become a flame-war, but I see no way to avoid it. Tim plans to extend the property system with compound data types, such as VEC3, VEC4, or COLOR. We've discussed this three times in IRC, and I've always pointed out why this is IMHO a *BAD* thing, and why I strongly object. But

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Gene Buckle
In my opinion this planned change would be an incredibly bad move, and would almost have to be seen as the destruction of the property system. So let me repeat: I strongly object. I guess it boils down to whether or not the benefit gained outweighs the down side. What benefit does the

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Erik Hofman
Melchior FRANZ wrote: How will a VEC3 property be written in an XML file? As foo type=vec3123;341;123/foo? Will then every application which reads such a file have to have its own (sub)parser for certain fields, in addition to using an XML parser? This is my strongest point to be against it.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Buganini
I don't know much about C++, but in Python people can custom a data type, it has its own method to be bound with operator. Like str(), the function a translate an object to a string, str(theObj) is actually theObj._str() This might also applied in tim's types such as VEC3. And it could have its

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Buganini -- Friday 20 March 2009: IMO, if these compound types are unavoidable, [...] They are very much avoidable. We've had colors and coordinates since *ages*. And what next? If we have VEC3, then what about POSITION, which contains latitude/longitude/altitude, and ORIENTATION with heading,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Stuart Buchanan
Melchior FRANZ wrote: This will probably become a flame-war, but I see no way to avoid it. Tim plans to extend the property system with compound data types, such as VEC3, VEC4, or COLOR. We've discussed this three times in IRC, and I've always pointed out why this is IMHO a *BAD* thing, and

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Stuart Buchanan -- Friday 20 March 2009: I don't see any reason for this to become a flame-war. Umm, because some people seem to have an auto-responder that launches a hate-mail every time an email contains my name and object? :-] m.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Melchior FRANZ -- Friday 20 March 2009: * Stuart Buchanan -- Friday 20 March 2009: I don't see any reason for this to become a flame-war. Umm, because [...] Arghh ... and that should have been a private mail to Stuart, with tongue in cheek. And now it looks as if *I* am the one who wants

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Torsten Dreyer
Sorry for that. But thanks for the cool idea anyway - let's see how to set it up ;-) Back to topic - you have strong points against it. Let's wait and see what Tim has to say. I am sure he has some good pros. Torsten

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Curtis Olson
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: This will probably become a flame-war, but I see no way to avoid it. I think you laid out your position in a very well thought out and fair manner, backed up with many reasonable points and/or questions. If

[Flightgear-devel] DEM data

2009-03-20 Thread cullam Bruce-Lockhart
I just wanted to check on this before I muck it up, now that I finally seem to have terragear compiled. I've got a couple of 1201X1201 grid cells of raster data, covering a total of 0.5 deg X 0.5 deg. The extension on the files is .dem, and according to the details that come with it, the data

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi, I hear that for the first time. On Friday 20 March 2009 16:06:51 Gene Buckle wrote: I guess it boils down to whether or not the benefit gained outweighs the down side. What benefit does the compound property offer? * You can modify properties in a atomic way. * We use the property tree

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
Hi, On Friday 20 March 2009 16:07:57 Erik Hofman wrote: This is my strongest point to be against it. The property tree is there for easy xml file loading and saving. I can see no obvious way to save those VEC properties to an xml file in a way that is supported by the xml specification. Ok.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Csaba Halász
2009/3/20 Mathias Fröhlich mathias.froehl...@gmx.net: From my point of view, the serialization of the objects into xml is just a special case of that reflection stuff. Not just the xml, there is MP, the generic i/o stuff and the telnet/http interface too. -- Csaba/Jester

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Erik Hofman
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: But from my point of view the property tree is also used as a reflection framework to reflect objects state into the models/scripting/whatever. From my point of view, the serialization of the objects into xml is just a special case of that reflection stuff. Given

Re: [Flightgear-devel] c172p-dual-pilot broken

2009-03-20 Thread Anders Gidenstam
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009, Torsten Dreyer wrote: I followed your advice and didn't rush ;-) No problem with the nasal wrapper for the animations. Do you have a generic interface for the properties for the remote aircraft? Are they transmitted via the generic multiplayer values? Hi, They are

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Curtis Olson
2009/3/20 Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Ok. But from my point of view the property tree is also used as a reflection framework to reflect objects state into the models/scripting/whatever. From my point of view, the serialization of the objects into xml is just a special case of that reflection

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Maik Justus
Hi, Stuart Buchanan schrieb am 20.03.2009 16:22: My immediate thought is that one could write some fairly straightforward code to interpret a given property node with 3 child values as a Vec3. Could we subvert the property attributes to indicate that a given nodes contains a Vect3. That way

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Erik Hofman
Maik Justus wrote: Hi, Or we do it vice versa. We store the vec3 directly in the property tree, e.g.. surface/color, but you can access any components over the property tree in the approved way. (surface/color/red, curface/color/blue, ...). From telnet, MP, property-browser, etc.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Jon S. Berndt
I have the feeling this will become a developers nightmare, give the number of possibilities to access the property tree.. But if anyone feels brave enough, be my guest. Erik I've thought, from time to time, about a units extension to the property system. I've also thought at times that it

[Flightgear-devel] RFC: vector types in the property system

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
RFC: Vector Types in the Property System Proposal: Allow vector types as properties in property list XML files and as properties in the runtime property system. The syntax in an XML file would look like: parameters material diffuse type=vec4d .2 .4 .6 1.0 /diffuse

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Gene Buckle wrote: In my opinion this planned change would be an incredibly bad move, and would almost have to be seen as the destruction of the property system. So let me repeat: I strongly object. I guess it boils down to whether or not the benefit gained outweighs the down side.

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Erik Hofman wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: How will a VEC3 property be written in an XML file? As foo type=vec3123;341;123/foo? Will then every application which reads such a file have to have its own (sub)parser for certain fields, in addition to using an XML parser? This is my strongest

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Buganini -- Friday 20 March 2009: IMO, if these compound types are unavoidable, [...] They are very much avoidable. We've had colors and coordinates since *ages*. And what next? If we have VEC3, then what about POSITION, which contains latitude/longitude/altitude,

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Stuart Buchanan wrote: I think it would be good for Tim to explain why more complex types are required, as I'm sure he will do shortly :) My immediate thought is that one could write some fairly straightforward code to interpret a given property node with 3 child values as a Vec3. Could we

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Melchior FRANZ wrote: This will probably become a flame-war, but I see no way to avoid it. Tim plans to extend the property system with compound data types, such as VEC3, VEC4, or COLOR. We've discussed this three times in IRC, and I've always pointed out why this is IMHO a *BAD* thing, and

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Curtis Olson wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: This will probably become a flame-war, but I see no way to avoid it. I think you laid out your position in a very well thought out and fair manner, backed up with many

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Erik Hofman wrote: Mathias Fröhlich wrote: But from my point of view the property tree is also used as a reflection framework to reflect objects state into the models/scripting/whatever. From my point of view, the serialization of the objects into xml is just a special case of that

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Curtis Olson wrote: 2009/3/20 Mathias Fröhlich wrote: Ok. But from my point of view the property tree is also used as a reflection framework to reflect objects state into the models/scripting/whatever. From my point of view, the serialization of the objects into xml is

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Tim Moore
Jon S. Berndt wrote: I have the feeling this will become a developers nightmare, give the number of possibilities to access the property tree.. But if anyone feels brave enough, be my guest. Erik I've thought, from time to time, about a units extension to the property system. I've also

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Curtis Olson
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Tim Moore timo...@redhat.com wrote: Gene Buckle wrote: In my opinion this planned change would be an incredibly bad move, and would almost have to be seen as the destruction of the property system. So let me repeat: I strongly object. I guess it

Re: [Flightgear-devel] [IMPORTANT] questionable extension to the property system planned: compound property types

2009-03-20 Thread Csaba Halász
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com wrote: On the flip side, (just my impression), arguing for this change because the alternative is a more verbose xml syntax is maybe the weakest argument.  xml is already pretty verbose and a percentage difference in verbosity