Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Pete
thanks for the flowers.
But really it is just because I am a little lazy and thus tried (for
about 2 weeks) to get it done simple and without "rework" when
transferring formats.
Let me try to explain: I did it on an Linux/Ubuntu with OpenOffice - and
thus I started there - and after several tries I found:
* they offer a lot of different possibilities to work on and transfer
between different formats
* I generated the "master" as an OpenOffice.org Writer (*.odt). (I did
try also their "Master Document" - but HTML does not like that structure
when converting! So everything is in one big doc - what of course has
some drawbacks - but not yet significant ones!)
* I did all work inside this *.odt, defined also all bookmarks (e.g. all
the items in the appendix "Tech.Terms and Abbreviations")
* I did alle references as "hyper-links" inside the one doc! They offer
under hyper-links usual Internet-links, Mails, Documents, etc.. Under
Document (no entry means "inside the one you work on") --> target you
can pick up also the "bookmarks" and "headings", etc.
* PDF was no problem at all: Just pick the menu-icon "PDF" ("Export
directly as PDF")
* the "HTML" is tricky: If you try to export you get a split up document
in which no internal reference's will fit! So I used the simple "save as
"HTML Document" - and was surprised how good that works. BUT still: If
you compare the PDF and the HTML you will find some formatting
discrepancies, especially inside tables and alike. For now I decided it
is good enough - but would like to hear any comment - good or bad!!
But the clue is really: Work only one document and convert without any
additional work into those 2 formats! i.e. you get new releases in a
snap!! (And still can control the contents - I guess there should be
something like that IN ADDITION to the "open" wiki's!
I also kept all included graphics as "link" in order that "HTML" does
not export them with "funny names".
And I tried several of the available translators - but (at least the "no
cost" ones) did cost more of my time for figuring out what they mean
exactly - and then they often mislead you into some funny wording or
grammar -- so I got away from those and translated without their help.
At least for me that worked much faster!
Please contact me if you are interested in more details. You may have
noticed that also I am very much interested in getting FlightGear
"internationalized" - and not just for Germans. But I guess in order get
("non English speaking") beginners interested they should find something
basic in their language - the later needed "specialized English" will
then come automatically. See also my ATC-ML.zip (Multi-Lingual) on my
http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/ downloads.
Hope that was not t much
rgds joe
On Sun, 2010-06-13 at 00:03 +0100, Peter Morgan wrote:
> I take my hat off to you, this has taken time and dedication.
>
>
> I speak welsh and learnt some more german, even though its "Double
> dutch" (a welsh/english phrase)...
>
>
> How did you find the conversion process, and can you offer advice for
> othe rlanguage implemetations?
>
>
> I maintained the Smarty documentation for a while a few years back..
> Its was in DOCBook which is a nightmare format, ie makes "some" sense
> to a human as its XML.. but tags
> However, docbook had the advantage of being "portable", meaning some
> "conversion happen", which to this day not understand, but they appear
> in html, txt and pdf.
> The frustrating aspect was that the "french" translator was following
> my "edits" too closely, and indeed translate mistake and not check (eg
> not run code). ie I would commit changes in them days to CVS and await
> "review".. and minor errors..
>
>
>
>
> I would like to help FG in making it "International", so if a new user
> decides to translate to X, then they should be "tutorial" of some
> kind..
>
>
> pete
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
I take my hat off to you, this has taken time and dedication. I speak welsh and learnt some more german, even though its "Double dutch" (a welsh/english phrase)... How did you find the conversion process, and can you offer advice for othe rlanguage implemetations? I maintained the Smarty documentation for a while a few years back.. Its was in DOCBook which is a nightmare format, ie makes "some" sense to a human as its XML.. but tags However, docbook had the advantage of being "portable", meaning some "conversion happen", which to this day not understand, but they appear in html, txt and pdf. The frustrating aspect was that the "french" translator was following my "edits" too closely, and indeed translate mistake and not check (eg not run code). ie I would commit changes in them days to CVS and await "review".. and minor errors.. I would like to help FG in making it "International", so if a new user decides to translate to X, then they should be "tutorial" of some kind.. pete On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Jörg Emmerich wrote: > Well - I know, this first offering for review of the new German version > took significantly longer than I thought. But while trying to understand > what was written I became confused several times - and got more and more > into "review mode" - and that lead to several changes -- included in the > German version - proposed also for the English version. > > Right now I finished the "The FlighGear Simulator" part (Preface, I. > Installation, II. Getting to know the Simultator, Appendix). I just > started the pure "Flying Tutorials" (Part III) - which should be > easier/quicker to translate. But I guess it is a good time to review > what I did now and how. So please do - I appreciate any comment. > > Please see the translated Manual (Handbuch) as HTML and/or PDF (both > from the same OpenOffice source): > http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart-de.html > http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart-de.pdf > > In addition a summary of what I changed (besides the translation): > http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart_Changes.pdf > http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart_Changes-Index.pdf > > Even thought I know, that not everybody is able to read and understand > German (what a pity!!) - I guess everybody might get an idea of the > major differences by looking into the ..Index.pdf comparisons. > happy reading > joe > > > > > -- > ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate > GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the > lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: > http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Well - I know, this first offering for review of the new German version took significantly longer than I thought. But while trying to understand what was written I became confused several times - and got more and more into "review mode" - and that lead to several changes -- included in the German version - proposed also for the English version. Right now I finished the "The FlighGear Simulator" part (Preface, I. Installation, II. Getting to know the Simultator, Appendix). I just started the pure "Flying Tutorials" (Part III) - which should be easier/quicker to translate. But I guess it is a good time to review what I did now and how. So please do - I appreciate any comment. Please see the translated Manual (Handbuch) as HTML and/or PDF (both from the same OpenOffice source): http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart-de.html http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart-de.pdf In addition a summary of what I changed (besides the translation): http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart_Changes.pdf http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart_Changes-Index.pdf Even thought I know, that not everybody is able to read and understand German (what a pity!!) - I guess everybody might get an idea of the major differences by looking into the ..Index.pdf comparisons. happy reading joe -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Jörg, Jörg Emmerich schrieb am 30.03.2010 11:05: > Hi Maik, > that is wundervoll news. Surely I will use the then completed > translation. > But why wait? > I will start with the review / translation short time after my Eastern vacation. Best regards, Maik > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Maik, that is wundervoll news. Surely I will use the then completed translation. But why wait? I do not at all intend to replace or dispense any wiki articles. I rather see the Manual as a summary of "Basic Knowledge for everybody" - and I plan to insert pointers to FGFS-wiki and also to wikipedia and other sources for "more and detailed informations". There is no way at all I could pick up every knowledge anywhere in the Internet -- but I hope I can make people aware of what FGFS has to offer and where there are additional sources for wisdom! So from my sight of view I guess the sooner that article will be as you plan it to be - the better - partly for the getstart but even more so for those people looking for those informations now. The getstart will surely take a much longer time to be available! joe On Mon, 2010-03-29 at 21:12 +0200, Maik Justus wrote: > At least at > http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/De/Fliegen_mit_dem_helikopter the > article is only partly translated. And even the translated part I would > like to review. > > Best regards, > Maik > > > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Jörg, Jörg Emmerich schrieb am 29.03.2010 16:05: > Hi Maik, > thank you for offering help in translating your chapter about the > Helicopters. But I am a little confused: I just compared the > getstart.pdf chapter "A Helicopter Tutorial" with the wiki "Flying the > Helicopter" - and on first sight they look exactly the same. What I do > not understand: There is already a translation "De/Fliegen mit dem > helikopter" -- so why do you want to translate it again?? > At least at http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/De/Fliegen_mit_dem_helikopter the article is only partly translated. And even the translated part I would like to review. Best regards, Maik -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Maik, thank you for offering help in translating your chapter about the Helicopters. But I am a little confused: I just compared the getstart.pdf chapter "A Helicopter Tutorial" with the wiki "Flying the Helicopter" - and on first sight they look exactly the same. What I do not understand: There is already a translation "De/Fliegen mit dem helikopter" -- so why do you want to translate it again?? Sorry if I misunderstood something. Still thanks for the offer joe -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi, > Martin Spott wrote: > > Maik Justus wrote: > > > > I don't know. But at least my two cents to The Manual (chapter "A > > Helicopter Tutorial" was copied from the Wiki to the manual.) > > I suspect this has not happened without proper negotiation, or did it ? Maik copied it himself, as you can see in the log... I believe the wiki is a excellent place for articles like this, as there are a lot of people with knowledge out there, that would love to add a line or two, but do not have the time/skills/rights to edit The Manual. We still need an official manual, but I truely believe that the wiki can act as a draft of it. Cheers, Gijs _ Het laatste nieuws, shownieuws en voetbalnieuws op MSN.nl http://nl.msn.com/-- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Maik, welcome to microlight flying - BTW ;-) Maik Justus wrote: > Martin Spott schrieb am 25.03.2010 22:34: >> Oh, are people really duplicating The Manual on the Wiki ? >> > I don't know. But at least my two cents to The Manual (chapter "A > Helicopter Tutorial" was copied from the Wiki to the manual.) I suspect this has not happened without proper negotiation, or did it ? Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hello Jörg, Jörg Emmerich schrieb am 26.03.2010 10:23: > ... > For the example of the Helicopter (and similar) I am not yet sure about > the best way: But I am convinced also here we do need a chapter about > the "Basics of how to fly a Helicopter" in the manual -- and point to > the wiki for "enhanced maneuvers" and different types of helicopters > etc. etc. (Helicopter-flying seems to be THE trend right now!). > thanks for any help > joe > For the helicopter chapter I offer my help. Best regards, Maik -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
I am very positive surprised that more people are interested in this project, than I thought! Some even offer actual help! That is very encouraging for me - I hope that will not get against me when I confess that I might not just do a word-by-word translation but also get some proposals for a general review. Actually I would have wanted to have some more stuff done in order to show what i mean - but may be it is a good time to discuss some basics for my doing already now. I got the idea by doing a lot of ATC-ing now in EDDF - and noticed that many people would like to fly in a more "orderly conduct" - but lack the possibility to learn it. Especially also most of the very young (who first get really mad if somebody tries to tell them what to do) get interested very much after doing/watching some ATC-guided patterns. But they need some advise why, what, how - to be read in a "small book" in their language - most of the Youngsters do not speak English (yet). Most of them have no idea how nice it can be to learn in a C172 - instead of just switching on AP in a 747! While translating the "getstart" I checked some references etc - and got the idea that several parts are a little outdated or new developments are merged in without rewriting the existing stuff! That is very OK for a development guy - for a "little boy/girl hardly knowing any English" it is often very confusing (and lengthy). Right now I am on chapter 3 (probably the most complicated - Starting FGFS with/without FGrun and/or Command-Line and/or Command-File for all Operating Systems etc etc). I found it very very hard even for me to understand what is available for what and when and how - a kid cannot understand that. So I set myself some rule - which I hope you can agree to: I will not just do a word by word translation - but by that a review - and I will propose changes. I will include the proposals in my draft of the German-Version - and document all the deviations from the original for a possible pickup also in the original (or of course also to change it back in my German proposal!). I will make the work done accessible for you asap, so we can early discuss what might be good - and what might not. Give me about 1 more week to finish the proposed "major reworked Chapter 3" - then we can start. In short to some remarks made already: Yes - I am aware that many of the things are also in the wiki - and are even much more current there. In order to keep the Manual "readable for kids" I will try to use only the "absolutely needed Basics" out of the wiki and include pointers to the wiki "for more details see...". In the Manual itself I would rather shorten some things. e.g. I do not believe that all (1000 ??) Command-Line-Options must be listed in the manual - only the most used/needed ones must be there --> and a pointer! And I have a proposal for people wanting to help "hands on": It is not really very helpful to point out of a German manual to an English wiki -- so please have a look into the Manual now - where it refers to something in the wiki - and translate those basics to German (it seems that in the wiki other languages get translated more often!). e.g. I have in work now also the "De/FlightGear Launch Control" - but there are a lot more which i would consider as Basics for flying/understanding FlightGear! For the example of the Helicopter (and similar) I am not yet sure about the best way: But I am convinced also here we do need a chapter about the "Basics of how to fly a Helicopter" in the manual -- and point to the wiki for "enhanced maneuvers" and different types of helicopters etc. etc. (Helicopter-flying seems to be THE trend right now!). thanks for any help joe -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Martin, Martin Spott schrieb am 25.03.2010 22:34: > Maik Justus wrote: > > >> just a remark, probably already know: >> Some parts of the getstart.pdf are in the wiki, [...] >> > > Oh, are people really duplicating The Manual on the Wiki ? > I don't know. But at least my two cents to The Manual (chapter "A Helicopter Tutorial" was copied from the Wiki to the manual.) > Martin. > Best regards, Maik -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Maik Justus wrote: > just a remark, probably already know: > Some parts of the getstart.pdf are in the wiki, [...] Oh, are people really duplicating The Manual on the Wiki ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi, just a remark, probably already know: Some parts of the getstart.pdf are in the wiki, which is partly translated to German. Best regards, Maik Adrian schrieb am 25.03.2010 08:44: > Hey Joe! > > Where d'you want me to go with that pen in my hand? :-) > Just tell me which pages you are translating, I'll then translate some > others. Sorry, I will not be able to generate such a big output like ten > pages a day or something, but many a little makes a mickle. > > Ciao, > Adrian > > > Am Mittwoch, den 24.03.2010, 17:53 +0100 schrieb Jörg Emmerich: > >> I searched for a good, affordable FlightGear tutorial for my German >> friends - but was not very lucky. >> So I made up my mind to translate the FlightGear Standard getstart.pdf. >> Because translating that 218 pages may not be done in a couple of weeks >> I just want to make aware of that I started - so that we might avoid >> multiples of such a bigger task. >> >> As soon as I have a complete first draft i will make it accessible here >> for reviews etc. And especially provide suggested changes to the >> original to Stuart and or Martin. >> joe >> > > > -- > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel > -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hey Joe! Where d'you want me to go with that pen in my hand? :-) Just tell me which pages you are translating, I'll then translate some others. Sorry, I will not be able to generate such a big output like ten pages a day or something, but many a little makes a mickle. Ciao, Adrian Am Mittwoch, den 24.03.2010, 17:53 +0100 schrieb Jörg Emmerich: > I searched for a good, affordable FlightGear tutorial for my German > friends - but was not very lucky. > So I made up my mind to translate the FlightGear Standard getstart.pdf. > Because translating that 218 pages may not be done in a couple of weeks > I just want to make aware of that I started - so that we might avoid > multiples of such a bigger task. > > As soon as I have a complete first draft i will make it accessible here > for reviews etc. And especially provide suggested changes to the > original to Stuart and or Martin. > joe -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
I searched for a good, affordable FlightGear tutorial for my German friends - but was not very lucky. So I made up my mind to translate the FlightGear Standard getstart.pdf. Because translating that 218 pages may not be done in a couple of weeks I just want to make aware of that I started - so that we might avoid multiples of such a bigger task. As soon as I have a complete first draft i will make it accessible here for reviews etc. And especially provide suggested changes to the original to Stuart and or Martin. joe -- Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
