Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Mon, 2011-12-12 at 00:35 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: I guess we will run into some problems finally with keeping closed airports for historical reason, i.e. when codes move to another facility. And maybe also some frequencies can change to another facility in range to the closed one ? Maybe going back needs another solution for the sim, but I can not speak for something I am not able to bring to FlightGear. I think we safely can assume that navaids and atc frequencies are turned off for closed airports unless they are specified individually. Erik -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Hi Gene, Gene Buckle wrote: One thing you guys are forgetting is that both apt.dat and nav.dat are updated regularly by Robin Peel, the keeper of those two files. I think changing them would probably bite you after a while. Robin's v8.10 files are unmaintained since August 2008, v8.50 since November this year, therefore I don't expect any trouble at this end. For his current airport collection I think it might well be worthwhile to feed the airfield name changes back to Robin, after the changes have settled a bit. I remember Robin as responding late but reasonable, thus I assume there's a chance for getting onto the same page. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 11.12.11 23:13, schrieb HB-GRAL: Am 11.12.11 13:31, schrieb HB-GRAL: Ok, its me again with this apt.dat changes. Now it is more cleaned at all and instead of the script log you can see the diff here: http://download.fgx.ch/data-update/diff-20111212.txt Thanks for checking ;-) Yves The link to the updated apt.dat is still the same: http://download.fgx.ch/data-update/20111212-apt.dat.gz -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all I am recently trying to update apt.dat airport names (in all flightgear relevant data versions, means original xplane 8.10/8.50 and flightgear apt.dat). I noticed caps in names, i.e. I am changing this names to It is not in specs of xplane 8.50 apt.dat version, but I found - 5935 Heliports are marked with [H] in the the name - 568 Seaports are marked with [S] - 2 Gliderports are marked with [G] - 36 Airports closed are marked with [X] in apt.dat (called xplane apt.dat 9.00 or so, but still based on 8.50). We are on flightgear of course, but I will try to submit my changes to original data too, so I need to keep my eyes open to what xplane uses. Also the deprecated row in airport line still exists in xplane data = 8.5 (but still not used in xplane I guess). I decided to mark the closed airports in apt.dat now with [X] in name, to keep it in line with xplane without using the deprecated row. Another reason to use [X] and not closed might be the length of the name: I have only 40 chars for the airport name, so adding the word closed will give me more lines with wrong count I guess. The result of current processed apt.dat is: - Cleaned 62 airport lines with wrong count of chars in elevation row (minor cleaning) - marked ~100 airports as closed with [X] at beginning of airport name, changed name to upper/lower when needed, state based on ourairports.com data - changed 3001 airport names to upper/lower, NO OTHER change in name for the moment You can find the changed apt.dat here: http://download.fgx.ch/data-update/20111211-apt.dat.gz When you find the time, please have a look to this changes. Now how should this go to the repo ? Should I start to send merge requests to fgdata ? Martin ? Cheers, Yves -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Sure, but it was his former homebase which he remembered by heart. I am not saying they are not useful in an emergency, but as they are not official airports, there is no guarantee the runway is even suitable for landing or takeoff. Hence the question whether they should be part of the airport data at all. Of course it would be nice to have them in the scenery with white X-marks on the runway.. //T -- On 11.12.2011 2:46 James J. Brennan wrote: Sure they are marked in some charts as they might be useful in an emergency, but essentially they are not much different from a large parking lot or a wide road. One came in pretty handy a few years ago when a guy ran out of gas. Something about the glimly glider (sp?) jj -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:38:26 +0200, Tuomas wrote in message -1192042695539871148@unknownmsgid: Sure, but it was his former homebase which he remembered by heart. I am not saying they are not useful in an emergency, but as they are not official airports, there is no guarantee the runway is even suitable for landing or takeoff. Hence the question whether they should be part of the airport data at all. Of course it would be nice to have them in the scenery with white X-marks on the runway.. ..not to mention fences across the runway or around new industrial etc buildings on it... closure dates field in database? A few has had more than one permanent closures, e.g. Lille Rygge near ENRY. ..model air strips? Since we have RC models? Some use X'es and still have ultralights visiting. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Since FG is a simulator, some folks like to go back in time and use closed airports as if they are open. So don't always assume time can only go forward in a simulator. Therefore it is important that well known closed airports are still in the apt.dat file. S. On Sun, 2011-12-11 at 16:38 +0200, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: Sure, but it was his former homebase which he remembered by heart. I am not saying they are not useful in an emergency, but as they are not official airports, there is no guarantee the runway is even suitable for landing or takeoff. Hence the question whether they should be part of the airport data at all. Of course it would be nice to have them in the scenery with white X-marks on the runway.. //T -- On 11.12.2011 2:46 James J. Brennan wrote: Sure they are marked in some charts as they might be useful in an emergency, but essentially they are not much different from a large parking lot or a wide road. One came in pretty handy a few years ago when a guy ran out of gas. Something about the glimly glider (sp?) jj -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
One thing you guys are forgetting is that both apt.dat and nav.dat are updated regularly by Robin Peel, the keeper of those two files. I think changing them would probably bite you after a while. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 11.12.11 13:31, schrieb HB-GRAL: The result of current processed apt.dat is: - Cleaned 62 airport lines with wrong count of chars in elevation row (minor cleaning) - marked ~100 airports as closed with [X] at beginning of airport name, changed name to upper/lower when needed, state based on ourairports.com data - changed 3001 airport names to upper/lower, NO OTHER change in name for the moment You can find the changed apt.dat here: http://download.fgx.ch/data-update/20111211-apt.dat.gz When you find the time, please have a look to this changes. Now how should this go to the repo ? Should I start to send merge requests to fgdata ? Martin ? Cheers, Yves I did another run of getting upper/lower names in current apt.dat used by fg. And I changed shortcuts to full words when it was possible in range of 40 chars. Now this is another update of additional ~7000 airport names: http://download.fgx.ch/data-update/20111212-apt.dat.gz -- cut out for your clubroom -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Bored ? Looking for a bedtime reading ? http://download.fgx.ch/data-update/replace-log-second.txt -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Ignore newline \n, it will not appear in the name of course. Thanks a lot, Cheers, Yves -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 11.12.11 22:43, schrieb Scott: Since FG is a simulator, some folks like to go back in time and use closed airports as if they are open. So don't always assume time can only go forward in a simulator. Therefore it is important that well known closed airports are still in the apt.dat file. S. Hi Scott I guess we will run into some problems finally with keeping closed airports for historical reason, i.e. when codes move to another facility. And maybe also some frequencies can change to another facility in range to the closed one ? Maybe going back needs another solution for the sim, but I can not speak for something I am not able to bring to FlightGear. But anyway, my simple target here is to mark closed airports for FlightGear as closed like it is done in all xplane data and I am not removing anything at the moment. Cheers, Yves -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Sat, 2011-12-10 at 00:49 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all Hi again About marking closed airports in apt.dat: - marking the name with [X] might be closer to charts I guess and most airports marked as closed in apt.dat comes with the x - removing x and marking with (closed) at end of name is possible in most cases without having 40 chars, but this is some kind of new convention ? - FAA marks closed airports with Cl What do you prefer for the apt.dat names ? It might be (but that's just a hunch) that [X] marks only closed runways but not specifically closed airports? Erik -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 10.12.11 10:29, schrieb Erik Hofman: On Sat, 2011-12-10 at 00:49 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all Hi again About marking closed airports in apt.dat: - marking the name with [X] might be closer to charts I guess and most airports marked as closed in apt.dat comes with the x - removing x and marking with (closed) at end of name is possible in most cases without having 40 chars, but this is some kind of new convention ? - FAA marks closed airports with Cl What do you prefer for the apt.dat names ? It might be (but that's just a hunch) that [X] marks only closed runways but not specifically closed airports? Erik The airports marked as closed are closed at all, no service. And for temporary closed runways you will need NOTAM I think, or not? Cheers, Yves -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Sat, 2011-12-10 at 11:14 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: The airports marked as closed are closed at all, no service. And for temporary closed runways you will need NOTAM I think, or not? I don't think NOTAMS are good enough for permanently closed runways. Erik -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 10.12.11 07:52, schrieb Tuomas Kuosmanen: Wouldn't it be useful to somehow flag the airport as closed/restricted/whatever in the data, so that nav displays and gps/fms units could show a different airfield symbol if desired for closed airports? Does the data format support this? There is one field left in apt.dat airport line which is deprecated. This would be the only possibility to set a flag (0=open, 1=closed ?), but I think with this flag set FG apt.dat is not compatible anymore with original xplane data. I guess some external apt.dat readers around use the [X] somehow ? (Remark: What I wrote about FAA and Cl is wrong, there are three states in US data: CI - closed indefinitely; CP - closed permanently; O - operational, so closed in apt.dat should mean CP I think.) Cheers, Yves -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
NOTAM has usually a time of validity, so permanent/long term changes usually end up as an AIP supplement which have a longer lifespan. Closed runways have a big white X on both ends of the runway (I guess if it is closed both ways? ;)) One more thought: Should completely closed airports be part of apt.dat at all? They are no longer a part of the air transport system. There is no guarantee at all that they are suitable for landing or takeoff. Sure they are marked in some charts as they might be useful in an emergency, but essentially they are not much different from a large parking lot or a wide road. //Tuomas -- On 10.12.2011 12:23 Erik Hofman wrote: On Sat, 2011-12-10 at 11:14 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: The airports marked as closed are closed at all, no service. And for temporary closed runways you will need NOTAM I think, or not? I don't think NOTAMS are good enough for permanently closed runways. Erik -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Yves -Original Message- From: HB-GRAL [mailto:flightg...@sablonier.ch] Sent: 10 December 2011 10:25 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.) Am 10.12.11 07:52, schrieb Tuomas Kuosmanen: Wouldn't it be useful to somehow flag the airport as closed/restricted/whatever in the data, so that nav displays and gps/fms units could show a different airfield symbol if desired for closed airports? Does the data format support this? There is one field left in apt.dat airport line which is deprecated. This would be the only possibility to set a flag (0=open, 1=closed ?), but I think with this flag set FG apt.dat is not compatible anymore with original xplane data. I guess some external apt.dat readers around use the [X] somehow ? (Remark: What I wrote about FAA and Cl is wrong, there are three states in US data: CI - closed indefinitely; CP - closed permanently; O - operational, so closed in apt.dat should mean CP I think.) I think the difference between CI and CP is too subtle to matter to us. If we only have a binary value then we should think O = 1, 'not O' = 0 where 'not O' = CI or CP. If we can have a ternary value then O = nil or undefined, CI = 0 and CP = 1 Works for me anyway. Vivian -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Sure they are marked in some charts as they might be useful in an emergency, but essentially they are not much different from a large parking lot or a wide road. One came in pretty handy a few years ago when a guy ran out of gas. Something about the glimly glider (sp?) jj -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 11.12.11 01:10, schrieb James J. Brennan: Sure they are marked in some charts as they might be useful in an emergency, but essentially they are not much different from a large parking lot or a wide road. One came in pretty handy a few years ago when a guy ran out of gas. Something about the glimly glider (sp?) jj I am running out of gas too somehow. Today I visited KUCA and got a chance to speak to my ancestors thanks to this lines in apt.dat I think: 50 11870 ATIS 51 11810 CTAF 51 12295 UNICOM 52 12190 CLNC DEL 53 12190 GND 54 11810 UTICA TWR 55 12092 GRIFFISS APP/DEP My script marks this airport as closed but I am sure heared some voices. Cheers, Yves -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all Hi again About marking closed airports in apt.dat: - marking the name with [X] might be closer to charts I guess and most airports marked as closed in apt.dat comes with the x - removing x and marking with (closed) at end of name is possible in most cases without having 40 chars, but this is some kind of new convention ? - FAA marks closed airports with Cl What do you prefer for the apt.dat names ? Cheers, Yves Attached: Log of running close option in script. Means: replacing names with names from ourairports.com, marking with [X] where it is marked closed in ourairports database. datetime.datetime(2011, 12, 10, 0, 24, 12, 585168) ### Starting replace: -- (C)losed -- 16138 0 1 00UT CLEAR CREEK RANCH 16138 0 1 00UT [X] Clear Creek Ranch -- (C)losed -- 1 250 0 1 03VA Whipoorwill Springs 1 250 0 1 03VA [X] Whipoorwill Springs -- (C)losed -- 11225 0 1 08WI Pierick 11225 0 1 08WI [X] Pierick -- (C)losed -- 13880 0 1 0Q6 Shingletown 13880 0 1 0Q6 [X] Shingletown -- (C)losed -- 11285 0 1 2OK3 Moore Airpark 11285 0 1 2OK3 [X] Moore Airpark -- (C)losed -- 1 98 0 1 34CA Fiddyment Field 1 98 0 1 34CA [X] Fiddyment Field -- (C)losed -- 1 335 0 1 51MO Georger Farms 1 335 0 1 51MO [X] Georger Farms -- (C)losed -- 1 615 0 1 6R4 Birds Nest 1 615 0 1 6R4 [X] Birds Nest -- (C)losed -- 1 7 0 0 BITH Thorshofn 1 7 0 0 BITH [X] Saudanes -- (C)losed -- 12100 0 0 CJH7 Beechy 12100 0 0 CJH7 [X] Beechy -- (C)losed -- 11444 0 0 CKL4 Hidden Bay 11444 0 0 CKL4 [X] Hidden Bay -- (C)losed -- 11791 0 0 CKR5 Lumsden (Metz) 11791 0 0 CKR5 [X] Lumsden (Metz) -- (C)losed -- 12149 0 0 CKW7 Wilkie 12149 0 0 CKW7 [X] Wilkie -- (C)losed -- 11650 0 0 CKY6 Gainsborough 11650 0 0 CKY6 [X] Gainsborough -- (C)losed -- 12106 0 1 CYSR NANISIVIK 12106 0 1 CYSR [X] Nanisivik -- (C)losed -- 1 270 1 1 EDVP Peine Eddesse 1 270 1 1 EDVP [X] Peine-Eddesse -- (C)losed -- 1 86 0 1 EGNU Full Sutton 1 86 0 1 EGNU [X] RAF Full Sutton -- (C)losed -- 1 70 0 1 EGSB Bedford 1 70 0 1 EGSB [X] Castle Mill Airfield -- (C)losed -- 1 161 0 1 EGSK Hethel 1 161 0 1 EGSK [X] RAF Hethel -- (C)losed -- 1 334 1 1 EGTI Leavesden 1 334 1 1 EGTI [X] Leavesden Aerodrome -- (C)losed -- 1 162 0 1 EGWZ RAF Alconbury 1 162 0 1 EGWZ [X] RAF Alconbury -- (C)losed -- 1 182 0 0 EGXN Newton 1 182 0 0 EGXN [X] RAF Newton -- (C)losed -- 1 66 1 0 EHSB Soesterberg 1 66 1 0 EHSB [X] Soesterberg Air Base -- (C)losed -- 1 71 1 0 EIGM Gormanston (closed) 1 71 1 0 EIGM [X] Gormanston Aerodrome -- (C)losed -- 1 52 0 1 ENFB [X] Oslo Fornebu 1 52 0 1 ENFB [X] Oslo, Fornebu -- (C)losed -- 1 217 0 1 EPSK REDZIKOWO 1 217 0 1 EPSK [X] Redzikowo Air Base -- (C)losed -- 1 90 0 1 ESCK BRAVALLA 1 90 0 1 ESCK [X] Bravalla Air Base -- (C)losed -- 1 50 0 0 ESKB Barkarby 1 50 0 0 ESKB [X] Barkarby -- (C)losed -- 1 184 0 1 ESMD Hassleholm Vankiva 1 184 0 1 ESMD [X] Hassleholm Vankivar -- (C)losed -- 1 426 0 1 ESMW Tingsryd 1 426 0 1 ESMW [X] Tingsryd -- (C)losed -- 1 95 1 1 ESNH HUDIKSVALL 1 95 1 1 ESNH [X] Hudiksvall -- (C)losed -- 1 770 0 1 F04 Saginaw 1 770 0 1 F04 [X] Saginaw -- (C)losed -- 1 80 0 1 KAAP Andrau Airpark 1 80 0 1 KAAP [X] Houston Andra -- (C)losed -- 1 8 0 1 KAIY ATLANTIC CITY MUNI BADER FLD 1 8 0 1 KAIY [X] Atlantic City Municipal Bader Field -- (C)losed -- 1 593 1 0 KCGX Chicago Meigs 1 593 1 0 KCGX [X] Chicago Meigs -- (C)losed -- 1 5 0 1 KFLU Flushing 1 5 0 1 KFLU [X] Flushing -- (C)losed -- 11090 1 1 KGVW Richards-Gebaur Memorial 11090 1 1 KGVW [X] Richards-Gebaur Air Force Base -- (C)losed -- 1 627 0 1 KHAX Hatbox Field 1 627 0 1 KHAX [X] Hatbox Field -- (C)losed -- 1 312 0 1 KLHC Arlington Municipal 1 312 0 1 KLHC [X] Arlington Municipal -- (C)losed -- 12280 0 1 KMLK Malta 12280 0 1 KMLK [X] Malta -- (C)losed -- 11419 0 0 KMQT Marquette County 11419 0 0 KMQT [X] Marquette -- (C)losed -- 1 404 0 1 KMSA Mount Pleasant Municipal 1 404 0 1 KMSA [X] Mt Pleasant -- (C)losed -- 1 375 0 1 KNJP Warminster Nawc 1 375 0 1 KNJP [X] Warminster Naval Air Warfare Center -- (C)losed -- 1 54 0 0 KNTK [X] Tustin Mcas 1 54 0 0 KNTK [X] Santa Ana -- (C)losed -- 1 383 0 0 KNZJ [X] El Toro MCAS 1 383 0 0 KNZJ [X] El Toro Marine Corps Air Station -- (C)losed -- 1 162 1 1 KNZW South Weymouth
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Friday 09 December 2011 16:49:14 HB-GRAL wrote: Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all Hi again About marking closed airports in apt.dat: - marking the name with [X] might be closer to charts I guess and most airports marked as closed in apt.dat comes with the x - removing x and marking with (closed) at end of name is possible in most cases without having 40 chars, but this is some kind of new convention ? - FAA marks closed airports with Cl What do you prefer for the apt.dat names ? Cheers, Yves Attached: Log of running close option in script. Means: replacing names with names from ourairports.com, marking with [X] where it is marked closed in ourairports database. And I'd like to request again that we gunzip apt.dat in fgdata. Especially if we're going to start making changes to it. -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Wouldn't it be useful to somehow flag the airport as closed/restricted/whatever in the data, so that nav displays and gps/fms units could show a different airfield symbol if desired for closed airports? Does the data format support this? FG could say (closed) in the end also based on the flag, if that were possible, so the name field wouldnt need to contain the information. //Tuomas -- On 10.12.2011 1:51 HB-GRAL wrote: Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all Hi again About marking closed airports in apt.dat: - marking the name with [X] might be closer to charts I guess and most airports marked as closed in apt.dat comes with the x - removing x and marking with (closed) at end of name is possible in most cases without having 40 chars, but this is some kind of new convention ? - FAA marks closed airports with Cl What do you prefer for the apt.dat names ? Cheers, Yves Attached: Log of running close option in script. Means: replacing names with names from ourairports.com, marking with [X] where it is marked closed in ourairports database. -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Learn Windows Azure Live! Tuesday, Dec 13, 2011 Microsoft is holding a special Learn Windows Azure training event for developers. It will provide a great way to learn Windows Azure and what it provides. You can attend the event by watching it streamed LIVE online. Learn more at http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-windowsazure___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 13:36 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: I wish to submit this changes and updates. But I am asking you to review the different changes/possibilities of the script in a code 1 line of apt.dat : a) Same name, but to lower: Old line: '13141 0 1 01MT CRYSTAL LAKES RESORT' New line: '13141 0 1 01MT Crystal Lakes Resort' That will be better. I have noticed it on many airports/airfields. b) No shortcuts, but still = 40 letters Old line: '13020 0 1 04CA GRAY BUTTE FLD' New line: '13020 0 1 04CA Gray Butte Field' Also better in full words, not shortcut. or Old line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Lndg Strip' New line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Landing Strip' Same above. Nice improvement. c) Same name, but marked as closed in apt.dat when ourairports says closed: Old line: '1 250 0 1 03VA Whipoorwill Springs' New line: '1 250 0 1 03VA [X]Whipoorwill Springs' Can you please try to remove that [X] or is it somehow important? d) Take new names from ourairports Old line: '1 18 0 1 04W Keech\n' New line: '1 18 0 1 04W Field of Dreams Airport\n' I think it is hard to validate them but these \n are not parsed well in my view (as a sim-pilot). What changes (0 or a/b/c/d) do you think are useful and will be accepted (also by developers working with apt.dat for FlightGear side projects like Maps, Launchers etc.) ? My launcher won't be affected by it, but maybe fgrun? And how about taxidraw? Cheers, Yves Regards, Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 14:02 +0100, Roland Häder wrote: On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 13:36 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: I wish to submit this changes and updates. But I am asking you to review the different changes/possibilities of the script in a code 1 line of apt.dat : a) Same name, but to lower: Old line: '13141 0 1 01MT CRYSTAL LAKES RESORT' New line: '13141 0 1 01MT Crystal Lakes Resort' That will be better. I have noticed it on many airports/airfields. b) No shortcuts, but still = 40 letters Old line: '13020 0 1 04CA GRAY BUTTE FLD' New line: '13020 0 1 04CA Gray Butte Field' Also better in full words, not shortcut. or Old line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Lndg Strip' New line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Landing Strip' Same above. Nice improvement. c) Same name, but marked as closed in apt.dat when ourairports says closed: Old line: '1 250 0 1 03VA Whipoorwill Springs' New line: '1 250 0 1 03VA [X]Whipoorwill Springs' Can you please try to remove that [X] or is it somehow important? d) Take new names from ourairports Old line: '1 18 0 1 04W Keech\n' New line: '1 18 0 1 04W Field of Dreams Airport\n' I think it is hard to validate them but these \n are not parsed well in my view (as a sim-pilot). What changes (0 or a/b/c/d) do you think are useful and will be accepted (also by developers working with apt.dat for FlightGear side projects like Maps, Launchers etc.) ? My launcher won't be affected by it, but maybe fgrun? And how about taxidraw? Cheers, Yves Regards, Roland Hi Yves, All looks like a good idea ;=)) I guess the only thing is concerning 'closed' airports. Should they be in apt.dat at all? But if they are retained for 'historic', or other purposes, it would be good if they were all consistent... - It seems there are already some 16 with [X], but most are with a space after this, except UHP1 [X]Lenino The others are all like 3R3 [X] Austin Executive Airport XBEL [X] Bellows AFB ... etc ... - But 2 just have the word 'closed', no [X] EIGM Gormanston (closed) YLUT Laverton (Military - Closed) - One with both KAUX [X] CLOSED Robert Mueller Municipal - One with just X, no square braces, and closed VHXX X CLOSED Kai Tak As stated, would be nice if they were all similarly 'marked', if retained... Just my 2 cents ;=)) Regards, Geoff. -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Another small question might be for ourairports names like this one: Mario's Flying Pizza Airport (sic!) should this become ... a) Marios Flying Pizza Airport b) Mario s Flying Pizza Airport c) Mario Flying Pizza Airport (This is serious, this is 2TA4 and it is in FlightGears apt.dat.) Origin in apt.dat is a) in apt.dat, but my script eats it up. So better no change for this case ? Cheers, Yves Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all I am recently trying to update apt.dat airport names (in all flightgear relevant data versions, means original xplane 8.10/8.50 and flightgear apt.dat). I noticed caps in names, i.e. I am changing this names to upper/lower case, and I wrote a small python script to update the names from another data source in public domain (ourairports.com). I wish to submit this changes and updates. But I am asking you to review the different changes/possibilities of the script in a code 1 line of apt.dat : a) Same name, but to lower: Old line: '13141 0 1 01MT CRYSTAL LAKES RESORT' New line: '13141 0 1 01MT Crystal Lakes Resort' b) No shortcuts, but still= 40 letters Old line: '13020 0 1 04CA GRAY BUTTE FLD' New line: '13020 0 1 04CA Gray Butte Field' or Old line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Lndg Strip' New line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Landing Strip' c) Same name, but marked as closed in apt.dat when ourairports says closed: Old line: '1 250 0 1 03VA Whipoorwill Springs' New line: '1 250 0 1 03VA [X]Whipoorwill Springs' d) Take new names from ourairports Old line: '1 18 0 1 04W Keech\n' New line: '1 18 0 1 04W Field of Dreams Airport\n' What changes (0 or a/b/c/d) do you think are useful and will be accepted (also by developers working with apt.dat for FlightGear side projects like Maps, Launchers etc.) ? Cheers, Yves -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
HB-GRAL wrote -Original Message- From: HB-GRAL [mailto:flightg...@sablonier.ch] Sent: 08 December 2011 17:44 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.) Another small question might be for ourairports names like this one: Mario's Flying Pizza Airport (sic!) should this become ... a) Marios Flying Pizza Airport b) Mario s Flying Pizza Airport c) Mario Flying Pizza Airport (This is serious, this is 2TA4 and it is in FlightGears apt.dat.) Origin in apt.dat is a) in apt.dat, but my script eats it up. So better no change for this case ? Cheers, Yves Am 08.12.11 13:36, schrieb HB-GRAL: Hi all I am recently trying to update apt.dat airport names (in all flightgear relevant data versions, means original xplane 8.10/8.50 and flightgear apt.dat). I noticed caps in names, i.e. I am changing this names to upper/lower case, and I wrote a small python script to update the names from another data source in public domain (ourairports.com). I wish to submit this changes and updates. But I am asking you to review the different changes/possibilities of the script in a code 1 line of apt.dat : a) Same name, but to lower: Old line: '13141 0 1 01MT CRYSTAL LAKES RESORT' New line: '13141 0 1 01MT Crystal Lakes Resort' b) No shortcuts, but still= 40 letters Old line: '13020 0 1 04CA GRAY BUTTE FLD' New line: '13020 0 1 04CA Gray Butte Field' or Old line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Lndg Strip' New line: '1 940 0 1 0NY7 Murphys Landing Strip' c) Same name, but marked as closed in apt.dat when ourairports says closed: Old line: '1 250 0 1 03VA Whipoorwill Springs' New line: '1 250 0 1 03VA [X]Whipoorwill Springs' d) Take new names from ourairports Old line: '1 18 0 1 04W Keech\n' New line: '1 18 0 1 04W Field of Dreams Airport\n' What changes (0 or a/b/c/d) do you think are useful and will be accepted (also by developers working with apt.dat for FlightGear side projects like Maps, Launchers etc.) ? Marios Flying Pizza Airport If you can't do Mario's Flying Pizza Airport Vivian -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
On Thursday 08 December 2011 07:07:58 Geoff McLane wrote: I guess the only thing is concerning 'closed' airports. Should they be in apt.dat at all? But if they are retained for 'historic', or other purposes, it would be good if they were all consistent... Just because an airport is 'closed' does not mean the runways no longer exist... The Gimli Glider incident comes to mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider. Even if the runways are removed and built over, often outlines are visible from the air for years after the airport is removed. See http://www.airfields-freeman.com/ for some examples. Ron -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.)
Btw, if anyone feels intrigued about Mario's flying pizza airport, here it is: http://maps.google.com/maps/place?ftid=0x86415b90e61a4049:0xab0e9da4a50a2a4q=mario%27s+pizza+sealyhl=enved=0CA0Q-gswAAsa=Xei=YxfhTpzhJdXVOKDNuAwsig2=M8avv0_jhvFgnD-ytx5bBQ Can't see planes on the ground, I suspect that the airstrip is mainly in support of ag-work planes and a stopover for cross-country fliers that want a quick snack. The double fence working as cattle pen is a nice touch of class From: w...@jentronics.com To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 13:58:32 -0600 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat update (lowercase names etc.) On Thursday 08 December 2011 07:07:58 Geoff McLane wrote: I guess the only thing is concerning 'closed' airports. Should they be in apt.dat at all? But if they are retained for 'historic', or other purposes, it would be good if they were all consistent... Just because an airport is 'closed' does not mean the runways no longer exist... The Gimli Glider incident comes to mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider. Even if the runways are removed and built over, often outlines are visible from the air for years after the airport is removed. See http://www.airfields-freeman.com/ for some examples. Ron -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Cloud Services Checklist: Pricing and Packaging Optimization This white paper is intended to serve as a reference, checklist and point of discussion for anyone considering optimizing the pricing and packaging model of a cloud services business. Read Now! http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51491232/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
