Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
* Curtis L. Olson -- Monday 14 November 2005 15:12:
Let's stick with .../.../Scenery/[Terrain|Objects] on all platforms
please. Individuals are welcome to call it whatever they want on their
system and use the --fg-scenery= option to point to their favoritely
named directory.
Maybe I missed something, but as far as I've understood this thread
is not about renaming $FG_ROOT/Scenery/. It's only about whether to
suggest a standard in the user documentation for where to install
additional scenery, especially when using terrasync. Dumping terrasync
fetched data into $FG_ROOT/Scenery/ is a Really Bad Idea[TM].
Not to get overly pedantic, but someone suggested
.../.../WorldScenery/{Terrain|Objects} for *nix platforms, and the
person doing the documentation work said ok, so my response was a plea
to keep things consistent across platforms and just use
$FG_ROOT/data/Scenery as the root of the scenery tree.
Regards,
Curt.
--
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HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
--- Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
Maybe I missed something, but as far as I've understood this thread
is not about renaming $FG_ROOT/Scenery/.
Well ... it could be :)
My aim is to write a section in the Gettings Started Guide so that a new
user can set up their directories and FG_SCENERY variable to the correct
values. This doesn't have to be the same setup as everyone uses (after
all, that's why we have FG_SCENERY)
It's only about whether to
suggest a standard in the user documentation for where to install
additional scenery, especially when using terrasync. Dumping terrasync
fetched data into $FG_ROOT/Scenery/ is a Really Bad Idea[TM].
I'm groping in the dark here as I'm not familiar with terrasync. Am I
correct in thinking that someone using terrasync should have their
terrasync data in a different directory from their directly-downloaded
10x10 scenery?
If so, is the convention to name the directories as follows:
$FG_ROOT/data/Scenery - standard SF bay scenery included in base package
$FG_ROOT/Scenery - scenery downloaded in 10x10 chunks
$FG_ROOT/WorldScenery - scenery downloaded by terrasync
or is WorldScenery just a different convention for $FG_ROOT/Scenery?
Not to get overly pedantic, but someone suggested
.../.../WorldScenery/{Terrain|Objects} for *nix platforms, and the
person doing the documentation work said ok, so my response was a plea
to keep things consistent across platforms and just use
$FG_ROOT/data/Scenery as the root of the scenery tree.
Now I'm getting even more confused. I thought $FG_ROOT/data/Scenery was
just to contain the base package scenery for the SF Bay area.
Maybe this is a can of worms I don't have enough understanding to want to
open ...
-Stuart
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
On Monday 14 November 2005 16:06, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: I'm groping in the dark here as I'm not familiar with terrasync. Am I correct in thinking that someone using terrasync should have their terrasync data in a different directory from their directly-downloaded 10x10 scenery? If so, is the convention to name the directories as follows: $FG_ROOT/data/Scenery - standard SF bay scenery included in base package $FG_ROOT/Scenery - scenery downloaded in 10x10 chunks $FG_ROOT/WorldScenery - scenery downloaded by terrasync or is WorldScenery just a different convention for $FG_ROOT/Scenery? I suggest to remove the SF bay scenery in the corresponding 10x10 scenery file. This allows us to place the SF bay, which comes allready with the base package, in the main scenery folder like all the other 10x10 chunks. And when someone installs the corresponding scenery tile w130n30.tar.gz it won't overwrite the SF bay. What's your opinion about that? Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Melchior FRANZ wrote: This dir doesn't exist. There's no such thing as $FG_ROOT/data/. Of course there is. :-) $FG_ROOT/source/ $FG_ROOT/data/ $FG_ROOT/data/Aircraft/ $FG_ROOT/data/Scenery/ This is the prefered structure ... Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Buchanan, Stuart wrote:
--- Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
If so, is the convention to name the directories as follows:
$FG_ROOT/data/Scenery - standard SF bay scenery included in base package
$FG_ROOT/Scenery - scenery downloaded in 10x10 chunks
$FG_ROOT/WorldScenery - scenery downloaded by terrasync
[...]
Not to get overly pedantic, but someone suggested
.../.../WorldScenery/{Terrain|Objects} for *nix platforms, and the
person doing the documentation work said ok, so my response was a plea
to keep things consistent across platforms and just use
$FG_ROOT/data/Scenery as the root of the scenery tree.
Now I'm getting even more confused. I thought $FG_ROOT/data/Scenery was
just to contain the base package scenery for the SF Bay area.
There's indeed some confusion in here.
$FG_ROOT actually points to the data/-Directory, this means, $FG_ROOT
contains ATC/, Aircraft/ , Models/ , Scenery/ and so on. As
far as I remember Melchior's intention was to express this. I think
Curt's statement accidentally differed from what he wanted to say - as
he is definitely involved in the creation of the $FG_ROOT-contruct :-)
Maybe this is a can of worms I don't have enough understanding to want to
open ...
This _is_ a can of worms but I certainly don't mind talking about it
from time to time. In fact people tend to use different directories
based on their experience and the operating system they use. Adding to
that, those people who know almost only one flavour/distribution of
Unix usually choose a different directory than those who have platform
interoperability in mind :-)
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Melchior FRANZ wrote: This dir doesn't exist. There's no such thing as $FG_ROOT/data/. Of course there is. :-) $FG_ROOT/source/ $FG_ROOT/data/ $FG_ROOT/data/Aircraft/ $FG_ROOT/data/Scenery/ Curt, this does not necessarily work. Apparently you have been misunderstood by several people for a long time. This makes the topic really funny :-) Looking at the facts, 'fgfs' actually does find the aircraft model, when data/ resides _below_ $FG_ROOT, but it does _not_ find the Scenery, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
--- Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Buchanan, Stuart wrote:
--- Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
If so, is the convention to name the directories as follows:
$FG_ROOT/data/Scenery - standard SF bay scenery included in base
package
$FG_ROOT/Scenery - scenery downloaded in 10x10 chunks
$FG_ROOT/WorldScenery - scenery downloaded by terrasync
[...]
Not to get overly pedantic, but someone suggested
.../.../WorldScenery/{Terrain|Objects} for *nix platforms, and the
person doing the documentation work said ok, so my response was a
plea
to keep things consistent across platforms and just use
$FG_ROOT/data/Scenery as the root of the scenery tree.
Now I'm getting even more confused. I thought $FG_ROOT/data/Scenery
was
just to contain the base package scenery for the SF Bay area.
There's indeed some confusion in here.
$FG_ROOT actually points to the data/-Directory, this means, $FG_ROOT
contains ATC/, Aircraft/ , Models/ , Scenery/ and so on. As
far as I remember Melchior's intention was to express this. I think
Curt's statement accidentally differed from what he wanted to say - as
he is definitely involved in the creation of the $FG_ROOT-contruct :-)
Yup, I think I got confused between FG_HOME (deprecated?) and FG_ROOT.
Maybe this is a can of worms I don't have enough understanding to want
to
open ...
This _is_ a can of worms but I certainly don't mind talking about it
from time to time. In fact people tend to use different directories
based on their experience and the operating system they use. Adding to
that, those people who know almost only one flavour/distribution of
Unix usually choose a different directory than those who have platform
interoperability in mind :-)
OK, so I think I'd like to suggest that for the Getting Started Guide we
suggest for Windows
whatever_path_to_FG/data/Scenery
whatever_path_to_FG/Scenery
and for *nix
$FG_ROOT/Scenery
/usr/share/FlightGear/Scenery
I'm expecting that *nix users will be familiar enough with their file
system to change it as they see fit, but I'd like to be more prescriptive
for Windows users who are _generally_ not going to be as happy messing
with $FG_SCENERY on their
Apologies for the confusion that has clouded already muddy water.
-Stuart
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Curtis L. Olson -- Monday 14 November 2005 16:34: Melchior FRANZ wrote: This dir doesn't exist. There's no such thing as $FG_ROOT/data/. Of course there is. :-) Sheesh. I resign. :-} $FG_ROOT/source/ $FG_ROOT/data/ $FG_ROOT/data/Aircraft/ $FG_ROOT/data/Scenery/ This is the prefered structure ... Not by me. Sourcecode doesn't really belong into /usr/local/share/, and even less into the shared FlightGear data. But you are the chief. And I keep my installation sane. :-P This is a hopeless conversation because everyone wants to do it different and there are so many possibilities. If you are a normal user on a normal unix system you aren't going to be able write to /usr/local so that's not even part of the discussion. And a user might want multiple versions of FG on their system so they could set up ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.8/source/ ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.8/data/ ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.8/bin/ ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.8/lib ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.8/include ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.8/AddOnScenery ... and ... ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.9/source/ ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.9/data/ ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.9/bin/ ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.9/lib ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.9/include ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.9/AddOnScenery ... and ... ~/Projects/FG-CVS/source/ ~/Projects/FG-CVS/data/ ~/Projects/FG-CVS/bin/ ~/Projects/FG-CVS/lib ~/Projects/FG-CVS/include ~/Projects/FG-v0.9.9/AddOnScenery Ok, so now the system administrator comes by and you want to install this at a system level so everyone can have access ... it's not common convention to install the source code. Instead but you might want to have multiple versions of FG installed so you could setup an $FG_ROOT for each version. But this discussion will go in endless circles because everyone who cares has their own opinions about how it should be done ... Fortunately people who care usually know what they are doing and why so they can set it up however they like. But this discussion I believe started out so we could define what should be in the documentation so my only point was that $FG_ROOT officially contains the data/ directory. (And for backwards compatibility, the code still supports the old way where $FG_ROOT is the data directory.) Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Martin Spott wrote: Curt, this does not necessarily work. Apparently you have been misunderstood by several people for a long time. This makes the topic really funny :-) Looking at the facts, 'fgfs' actually does find the aircraft model, when data/ resides _below_ $FG_ROOT, but it does _not_ find the Scenery, Well unless I have some thing else going on locally that I'm not aware of, this works out ok for me ... (?) Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Buchanan, Stuart wrote: OK, so I think I'd like to suggest that for the Getting Started Guide we suggest for Windows whatever_path_to_FG/data/Scenery whatever_path_to_FG/Scenery and for *nix $FG_ROOT/Scenery /usr/share/FlightGear/Scenery I'm expecting that *nix users will be familiar enough with their file system to change it as they see fit, but I'd like to be more prescriptive for Windows users who are _generally_ not going to be as happy messing with $FG_SCENERY on their Apologies for the confusion that has clouded already muddy water. Stuart, We can suggest different default locations of $FG_ROOT for different systems, but below $FG_ROOT we should use the same structure for all platforms. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Curtis L. Olson -- Monday 14 November 2005 16:54: This is a hopeless conversation because everyone wants to do it different and there are so many possibilities. We are talking about different things. You talk about the organization of source and data in your home directory. I believe I referenced both situations ... but discussed the home directory situation first as justification for the overall structure. I talk about correct installation of fgfs on a multiuser system, with system wide FG_ROOT. Of course, FG_ROOT is not in a user's home dir then. And, of course, it doesn't contain the source. The source is in my home directory, is not accessible by other users, and does neither follow the organization that I described in the thread, nor what you consider preferred. Also, I wouldn't want to discuss the organization of my home dir in the fgfs documentation. That's secret! :-] Ok, I will drop 10 and punt. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
On Monday 14 November 2005 16:58, Curtis L. Olson wrote: We can suggest different default locations of $FG_ROOT for different systems, but below $FG_ROOT we should use the same structure for all platforms. Curt. Then we should definitely officially use /usr/local/games/flightgear/ or /opt/flightgear/ as $FG_ROOT on unix systems. The ones who want have it the other way can change it on their own with the --prefix= command line option, but officially it should be clear for things like a binary installer or tools that want have access to the data in flightgear without the need of asking the user all the time where the flightgear data is. To make use of /usr/local/games/flightgear/ or /opt/flightgear/ by default we should change the configure script accordingly. Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Oliver C. wrote: To make use of /usr/local/games/flightgear/ or /opt/flightgear/ by default we should change the configure script accordingly. As FlightGear is a self contained package (including binaries, libs and data) it belongs to /opt/flightgear according to the FHS. Which would also prevent us from living under .../games ;) Nine ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Oliver C. wrote: Then we should definitely officially use /usr/local/games/flightgear/ or /opt/flightgear/ as $FG_ROOT on unix systems. I don't understand why the hell people should want to use /usr/local/games/ for FlightGear ? Just curious, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
On Monday 14 November 2005 18:05, Martin Spott wrote: Oliver C. wrote: Then we should definitely officially use /usr/local/games/flightgear/ or /opt/flightgear/ as $FG_ROOT on unix systems. I don't understand why the hell people should want to use /usr/local/games/ for FlightGear ? That's easy to answer: Because flying with Flightgear makes a lot of fun. :) Seriously, i can live with both directories. /opt/flightgear is fine too. Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Martin Spott wrote: Oliver C. wrote: Then we should definitely officially use /usr/local/games/flightgear/ or /opt/flightgear/ as $FG_ROOT on unix systems. I don't understand why the hell people should want to use /usr/local/games/ for FlightGear ? The slackware package puts the binaries in /usr/bin and the data files under /usr/share/FlightGear I *could* put the doc files in /usr/doc/Flightgear-$VERSION but since there are various references to them under FG_ROOT that's where I left them. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Oliver C. wrote: Seriously, i can live with both directories. /opt/flightgear is fine too. Great - should we focus on this one for documentation purpose ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
Buchanan, Stuart wrote: --- Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, so I think I'd like to suggest that for the Getting Started Guide we suggest for Windows whatever_path_to_FG/data/Scenery whatever_path_to_FG/Scenery and for *nix $FG_ROOT/Scenery /usr/share/FlightGear/Scenery But why do we have 2 dirs ? The Scenery directory of the base package is a subset of the world scenery so everything should be at the same place (in the world scenery dir), or am I wrong ? Harald. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
--- Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Both are wrong, according to the FHS, and to common sense. The right path is /usr/local/share/ ... and guess what? It's already the default. So, What is FHS? So for consistency in the docs (and ignoring power users like the people who inhabit this list) we'd recommend $FG_ROOT/Scenery $FG_ROOT/WorldScenery where $FG_ROOT is the FG data directory, and can be anywhere anyone wishes (though I intend to reccommend c:\FlightGear for windows to avoid any whitespace issues) -Stuart ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
On Monday 14 November 2005 19:07, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: --- Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Both are wrong, according to the FHS, and to common sense. The right path is /usr/local/share/ ... and guess what? It's already the default. So, What is FHS? It's the unix Filesystem Hierarchy Standard http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ where $FG_ROOT is the FG data directory, and can be anywhere anyone wishes (though I intend to reccommend c:\FlightGear for windows to avoid any whitespace issues) On windows the Flightgear folder definitely belongs into C:\programs\FlightGear That's the default place for all Windows applications. The folder C:\programs can be accessed via a windows system variable, and this is the right way to do it, because this is required for localized purposes. For example on a German Windows installation the name for C:\programs\ is C:\Programme\ Thus the system variable should be used, instead of a direct access to the folder name. Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
On Monday 14 November 2005 18:47, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Oliver C. -- Monday 14 November 2005 18:46: [/usr/local/games/FlightGear or /opt/flightgear] Seriously, i can live with both directories. /opt/flightgear is fine too. Both are wrong, according to the FHS, and to common sense. The right path is /usr/local/share/ ... and guess what? It's already the default. So, nothing to see here -- move along. Ok, i can live with /usr/local/share (for flighgear data) too. :) Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Getting Started Guide - Terrain/Objects
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:42:24 +0100, Oliver wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I suggest to remove the SF bay scenery in the corresponding 10x10 scenery file. This allows us to place the SF bay, which comes allready with the base package, in the main scenery folder like all the other 10x10 chunks. ..good idea, and can it be combined with locally made stuff too? And when someone installs the corresponding scenery tile w130n30.tar.gz it won't overwrite the SF bay. ..why do (or don't?) we want this file overwritten? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
