Re: [fonc] Issues with understanding obj.c

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
See below... On 09/06/2011, at 2:59 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: I really don't understand what this means: typedef struct object *(*method_t)(struct object *receiver, ...); method_t is a pointer to a function that returns an object pointer and takes receiver and additional argument Thanks

Re: [fonc] Issues with understanding obj.c

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
Answering my own question... On 09/06/2011, at 4:27 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: See below... On 09/06/2011, at 2:59 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: I really don't understand what this means: typedef struct object *(*method_t)(struct object *receiver, ...); method_t is a pointer to a function

Re: [fonc] Issues with understanding obj.c

2011-06-09 Thread BGB
On 6/8/2011 11:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: Answering my own question... On 09/06/2011, at 4:27 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: See below... On 09/06/2011, at 2:59 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: I really don't understand what this means: typedef struct object *(*method_t)(struct object *receiver,

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Josh Gargus
On May 31, 2011, at 7:30 AM, Alan Kay wrote: Hi Cornelius There are lots of egregiously wrong things in the web design. Perhaps one of the simplest is that the browser folks have lacked the perspective to see that the browser is not like an application, but like an OS. i.e. what it

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread BGB
On 6/9/2011 12:56 AM, Josh Gargus wrote: On May 31, 2011, at 7:30 AM, Alan Kay wrote: Hi Cornelius There are lots of egregiously wrong things in the web design. Perhaps one of the simplest is that the browser folks have lacked the perspective to see that the browser is not like an

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
On 09/06/2011, at 5:56 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: However, can we do better than that? I guess the answer depends on which aspect of the status quo we're trying to improve on (searchability, mashups, etc). For search, there must be plenty of technologies that can improve on HTML by

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
On 09/06/2011, at 7:04 PM, BGB wrote: actually, possibly a relevant question here, would be why Java applets largely fell on their face, but Flash largely took off (in all its uses from YouTube to Punch The Monkey...). My own opinion of this is the same reason that the iPad feels faster

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Cornelius Toole
Some of the implications, anyway. The benefits of the OS-perspective are clear. Once it hits its stride, there will be no (technical) barriers to deploying the sorts of systems that we talk about here (Croquet-Worlds-Frank-OMeta-whatnot). Others will be doing their own cool things, and

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Josh Gargus
On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:04 AM, BGB wrote: On 6/9/2011 12:56 AM, Josh Gargus wrote: On May 31, 2011, at 7:30 AM, Alan Kay wrote: Hi Cornelius There are lots of egregiously wrong things in the web design. Perhaps one of the simplest is that the browser folks have lacked the perspective

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Toby Watson
How about _recursive_ VM/JITs *beneath* the level that HTML/JS is implemented. So the browser that ships only supports this recursive VM. HTML is an application of this that can be evolved by open source at internet scale / time. Web pages can point at a specific HTML implementation or a general

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Josh Gargus
On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Cornelius Toole wrote: Some of the implications, anyway. The benefits of the OS-perspective are clear. Once it hits its stride, there will be no (technical) barriers to deploying the sorts of systems that we talk about here

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Josh Gargus
That all sounds very cool. However, I don't think that it's feasible to try to ship something like this as standard in all browsers, if only for political reasons. It would be impossible to get Mozilla, Google, Apple, and Microsoft to agree on it. That's what's cool about NaCl. It's minimal

[fonc] MODULARITY: aosd.2012 - Call for Papers on Research Results - Round 2

2011-06-09 Thread Mónica Pinto
*** AOSD 2012 *** March 25-30, 2012 Hasso-Plattner-Institut Potsdam, Germany http://aosd.net/2012/ Call for Papers -- Research Results Modularity transcending traditional abstraction boundaries is essential for developing complex modern systems - particularly software and software-intensive

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Josh Gargus
On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:42 AM, BGB wrote: OSes on top of this hypervisor. If it tickles you fancy, then by all means use it to run a sand-boxed Unix. Undoubtedly someone will; witness the cool hack to run Linux in the browser, accomplished by writing an x86 emulator in Javascript

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Josh Gargus
On Jun 9, 2011, at 12:06 PM, BGB wrote: On 6/9/2011 11:10 AM, Josh Gargus wrote: That all sounds very cool. However, I don't think that it's feasible to try to ship something like this as standard in all browsers, if only for political reasons. It would be impossible to get Mozilla,

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread BGB
On 6/9/2011 12:20 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: On Jun 9, 2011, at 12:06 PM, BGB wrote: On 6/9/2011 11:10 AM, Josh Gargus wrote: That all sounds very cool. However, I don't think that it's feasible to try to ship something like this as standard in all browsers, if only for political reasons. It

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Cornelius Toole
Josh, All I'm not sure I understand your last sentence, nor how you suggest we might mitigate the opacity of non-HTML client technologies. Let's say that you embed in an HTML page a view into a persistent 3d virtual environment like OpenQwaq. Can you help me understand how we might expand

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Casey Ransberger
On Jun 9, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Josh Gargus j...@schwa.ca wrote: Conceptually, yes. In practice, no, because the HTML/DOM render-target is also the lingua franca that makes the Web searchable and mashupable. So I'd like to first point out that you're making a great point here, so I hope it

[fonc] A Message for Frank about HyperCard

2011-06-09 Thread Casey Ransberger
Frank, Really good to hear that you've taken your first steps. You have great parents and a promising future. Keep up the good work! I was really impressed that you've already gotten into HyperCard; I must have been fully 12 or 13 years old before I noticed it sitting on my own computer. I

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Casey Ransberger
You know this isn't usable with the browser I have handy at the moment, but I can already see it. Really interesting, I can imagine it would look more or less like this. Thanks for putting me onto this, Ian. On Jun 9, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Ian Piumarta piuma...@speakeasy.net wrote: On Jun 9,