Re: FOP Compliance Page was: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
On 02.08.2005 03:18:44 Manuel Mall wrote: Gentlemen, can we agree on the following? 1. The compliance page must be able to handle multiple FOP versions. Two, at most. 2. Which versions are shown at any point in time and how they are called will be decided on a case by case basis. Currently we are talking only about the last official release (0.20.5) and the current work in progress (1.0dev, 0.9pr, ...) but down the track versions may be added or removed at a frequency we don't know yet. VERY low frequency. As Chris said, don't worry about that too much. From my perspective, as I have put my hand up to do this, this raises two issues. a) What is the appropriate visual design for the compliance page to achieve 1.? Two proposals have been made: i) Maintain the current 3 column layout of Version Basic | Extended | Complete and replicate Version 1 Version 2 Basic | Extended | Complete | Basic | Extended | Complete This solution allows to quickly see by scanning down a column if a particular version is conformant at a particular level. However, it doesn't scale very well. Even with two versions only it will be very squished on the screen. Adding more than 2 will most likely be looking fairly awkward. ii) Change the layout to a single column per version and indicate in a single separate column at which conformance level a particular FO object or property lives (For a sample see the XSL-FO Object Support Table at http://www.arcus.com.au/fop/compliance.html). This solution scales better as it is more compact but it is harder to see if a particular version is conformant at a particular level. ii) should be good enough for now. b) What is the appropriate technical solution to achieve 2.? i) Manually edit the HTML ii) Use some WYSIWYG tool which can produce Forrest compliant output (OpenOffice was suggested) iii) Revive the generation of the page from XML input (does someone have the original compliance.xml file - I can't find it in SVN?) Go for i). No need to waste too much time. Obviously, iii) would be ideal as we'd have a separation of content and presentation but if it's not easily done, don't do it. I am happy to investigate and implement (if needed) the technical solution but I would like to get FOP committer feedback on the look feel of the page as this is part of the projects public face. Jeremias Maerki
Re: FOP Compliance Page was: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
The Web Maestro wrote: On Aug 1, 2005, at 2:58 AM, Chris Bowditch wrote: I don't think adding/removing releases from the compliance page is something we plan on doing frequently. A side by side comparsion is only required now because the Trunk code is a complete re-write. Once the trunk code has stablized and its being used in production, everything relating to the maintanance branch can probably be removed from the website. When further releases are made from the Trunk, it will simply be a matter of updating the compliance page to reflect what the latest release supports. Chris Actually, I think we'll probably leave the 0.20.5 release online (although, we haven't discussed this yet). One thing about 0.20.5 and previous versions is that, presumably, they support more systems than the one about to be released. IIRC, 0.9/1.0dev will require Java 1.4 or 1.5, neither of which are supported by AIX 4.1 (JRE 1.3 max). For this reason, it makes sense (to me) to at least maintain a comparison page (if we don't leave that maintenance-branch info on the FOP Compliance Page). Clay - 0.9pr will support JDK 1.3. I have long been arguging the need to maintain support for it. I believe Jeremias applied a patch recently to fix the issues with building 0.9pr on 1.3. So it should be okay now? So I don't think 0.20.5 will have any advantage once 0.9 has become stable. Hence why I think we should stop promoting it once 0.9 is thorouhly tested and in production. Chris
RE: FOP Compliance Page was: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Manuel Mall wrote: BTW, why do we have the 3 columns Basic | Extended | Complete? Every row will only have one cell out of those 3 filled out. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a single column called Compliance or Core with the values Basic, Extended or Complete? That would save valuable screen space and give us room to add columns for each release. The original compliance page had each cell color-coded to indicate compliance with each of the three levels. So, if feature A is required for Extended support and was not supported by FOP, the Basic column would have the compliant color, while the Extended and Complete columns would have the non-compliant color. I built this just slightly before we converted to Forrest. Since we converted to Forrest, the custom XSLT required for the above has been a pain, and I think it has been eliminated. I just looked at the published page, and it looks like you still have the three columns, but not the color-coding, so combining the three as you suggest makes good sense. (Sorry for the slow response. My email is being bounced as spam). Victor Mote
Re: FOP Compliance Page was: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Gentlemen, can we agree on the following? 1. The compliance page must be able to handle multiple FOP versions. 2. Which versions are shown at any point in time and how they are called will be decided on a case by case basis. Currently we are talking only about the last official release (0.20.5) and the current work in progress (1.0dev, 0.9pr, ...) but down the track versions may be added or removed at a frequency we don't know yet. From my perspective, as I have put my hand up to do this, this raises two issues. a) What is the appropriate visual design for the compliance page to achieve 1.? Two proposals have been made: i) Maintain the current 3 column layout of Version Basic | Extended | Complete and replicate Version 1 Version 2 Basic | Extended | Complete | Basic | Extended | Complete This solution allows to quickly see by scanning down a column if a particular version is conformant at a particular level. However, it doesn't scale very well. Even with two versions only it will be very squished on the screen. Adding more than 2 will most likely be looking fairly awkward. ii) Change the layout to a single column per version and indicate in a single separate column at which conformance level a particular FO object or property lives (For a sample see the XSL-FO Object Support Table at http://www.arcus.com.au/fop/compliance.html). This solution scales better as it is more compact but it is harder to see if a particular version is conformant at a particular level. b) What is the appropriate technical solution to achieve 2.? i) Manually edit the HTML ii) Use some WYSIWYG tool which can produce Forrest compliant output (OpenOffice was suggested) iii) Revive the generation of the page from XML input (does someone have the original compliance.xml file - I can't find it in SVN?) I am happy to investigate and implement (if needed) the technical solution but I would like to get FOP committer feedback on the look feel of the page as this is part of the projects public face. Cheers Manuel On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:44 pm, Chris Bowditch wrote: The Web Maestro wrote: On Aug 1, 2005, at 2:58 AM, Chris Bowditch wrote: I don't think adding/removing releases from the compliance page is something we plan on doing frequently. A side by side comparsion is only required now because the Trunk code is a complete re-write. Once the trunk code has stablized and its being used in production, everything relating to the maintanance branch can probably be removed from the website. When further releases are made from the Trunk, it will simply be a matter of updating the compliance page to reflect what the latest release supports. Chris Actually, I think we'll probably leave the 0.20.5 release online (although, we haven't discussed this yet). One thing about 0.20.5 and previous versions is that, presumably, they support more systems than the one about to be released. IIRC, 0.9/1.0dev will require Java 1.4 or 1.5, neither of which are supported by AIX 4.1 (JRE 1.3 max). For this reason, it makes sense (to me) to at least maintain a comparison page (if we don't leave that maintenance-branch info on the FOP Compliance Page). Clay - 0.9pr will support JDK 1.3. I have long been arguging the need to maintain support for it. I believe Jeremias applied a patch recently to fix the issues with building 0.9pr on 1.3. So it should be okay now? So I don't think 0.20.5 will have any advantage once 0.9 has become stable. Hence why I think we should stop promoting it once 0.9 is thorouhly tested and in production. Chris
Re: FOP Compliance Page was: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Victor, thanks for the background information. On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:19 am, Victor Mote wrote: Manuel Mall wrote: BTW, why do we have the 3 columns Basic | Extended | Complete? Every row will only have one cell out of those 3 filled out. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a single column called Compliance or Core with the values Basic, Extended or Complete? That would save valuable screen space and give us room to add columns for each release. The original compliance page had each cell color-coded to indicate compliance with each of the three levels. So, if feature A is required for Extended support and was not supported by FOP, the Basic column would have the compliant color, while the Extended and Complete columns would have the non-compliant color. ... I managed to revive the color coding (see http://www.arcus.com.au/fop/compliance.html). It was a CSS issue in that the FOP custom stylesheet rules were less specific than the Forrest default CSS rules and therefore not applied on the table elements. Manuel Victor Mote
FOP Compliance Page was: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Got the Forrest installation and site generation sorted out. Just as an observation the site claims to be HTML 4.01 compliant but when you submit it to the W3C validator it fails validation. Basically we are making an unsubstantiated claim on compatibility here. The problems seems however to be mainly in Forrest and I have lodge an issues with them. However, I do wonder if we have to remove the compliance claim (the W3C HTML 4.01 logo) until we are really compliant? BTW, the Forrest site which uses the same skin has the same problem. Another observation: FOP being a project under the XML family shouldn't we have an XHTML compliant site? I am guessing that this is a Forrest skin issue as well? Last observation: The compliance page (table columns) looks ugly under Firefox. Its fine under IE 6, Opera, Konqueror. The problem is the right floating background image under external links which Firefox seems to ignore when calculating cell widths causing cells to overflow into their neighbours. Not sure what we can do about that its just a bit sad if our site looks bad under the most popular open source browser. Back to the compliance page. I assume what is required is some indication of 1.0dev compliance vs 0.20.5 compliance. To achieve that we could: a) Add extra columns, eg. Support (0.20.5)|Support (1.0dev) Basic | Extended | Complete | Basic | Extended | Complete ... b) Add extra columns like Support Basic | Extended | Complete 0.20.5| 1.0Dev | 0.20.5| 1.0Dev | 0.20.5| 1.0Dev | ... c) Leave the column structure as is and record it in the column values, i.e. instead of Yes we could have a list of version numbers eg. 0.20.5, 1.0dev. If its partial its indicated in brackets behind the version number. Option c) is probably the easiest to manage as the table structure doesn't change as we add/remove releases from the table. b) is probably the easiest on the eye for a quick visual comparison but with each release added/removed the whole table structure changes making it work intensive to maintain. Feedback please Manuel On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:51 am, Jeremias Maerki wrote: ... On 30.07.2005 18:38:55 Manuel Mall wrote: ... On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:11 pm, Jeremias Maerki wrote: ... ... The file that would need to be changed is this one: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation /con tent/xdocs/compliance.ihtml Stylesheets used with the above document: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation /res ources/stylesheets/ ... Jeremias Maerki
Re: FOP Compliance Page was: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:09 am, The Web Maestro wrote: On Jul 31, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Manuel Mall wrote: ... I seems originally the compliance page was created using some XSLT transformations (see src/documentation/resources/stylesheets). Has this approach been abandoned? I can't find the input file. I believe it was originally, however that broke and I wasted many hours of time trying to get it to work. It's likely that the file compliance.xml is a good starting point (in xdocs/) Do you mean src/documentation/content/xdocs? I can't find a compliance.xml there in SVN. Never mind, I'll take your advice that its broken any way and will edit the compliance.ihtml.
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
I think I have a handle on how to obtain the number of pages generated per page sequence. However, I am struggling with how to best access the FormattingResults structure in Fop.java. In 0.20.5 the structure lived in StreamRenderer which is now sort of AreaTreeHandler. It is not clear to me how I can access AreaTreeHandler from Fop.java as it appears not to be accessible from what Fop.java currently holds? As an alternative the results structure could live in FOUserAgent as FOUserAgent is known to both Fop.java and AreaTreeHandler. However, FOUserAgent is currently used to only communicate user configurable items into the fo processing not to report back which is the purpose of the FormatingResults. As I am quite new to this I don't want to stuff things up and would appreciate suggestions. Thanks Manuel On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 03:41 am, Simon Pepping wrote: ... On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 08:43:50AM +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Manuel, ... - Find a way to access the FormattingResults structure in Fop.java like it was done in 0.20.5.
RE: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
As this is now done anything else I can help with (keep it small to start with please)? Manuel
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
You're making me happy, Manuel! May I point you to the task list on the Wiki? http://wiki.apache.org/xmlgraphics-fop/FOPProjectTasks I think there are lots of small things that you can easily jump into. Absolutely great would be if you tried to prepare the compliance page to receive additional columns so we can better communicate what FOP Trunk can do in comparison to FOP 0.20.5. I can certainly help filling out the gaps but if you tried to prepare the foundation, I'd love you for that. The only drawback for this one would be that you'd have to install Forrest to do that. Not a too steep learning curve anyway for someone familiar with XML and XSLT. More infos here: http://xml.apache.org/fop/dev/doc.html The file that would need to be changed is this one: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation/content/xdocs/compliance.ihtml Stylesheets used with the above document: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation/resources/stylesheets/ But you're welcome to choose anything else. Writing tests for and improving support for instream-foreign-object and external-graphic would also be very good. On 30.07.2005 15:40:12 Manuel Mall wrote: As this is now done anything else I can help with (keep it small to start with please)? Manuel Jeremias Maerki
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Managed to install Forrest 0.7 and installed and built the xmlgraphics site from http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/site/. However, I am a bit confused about how this hangs together as there are two sites related to fop: xmlgraphics.apache.org and xml.apache.org/fop. So I can build with Forrest the xmlgraphics.apache.org site but I don't know how to build the xml.apache.org/fop site with Forrest. As the compliance page in question seems to reside under xml.apache.org/fop I am stuck. thks Manuel On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:11 pm, Jeremias Maerki wrote: ... The only drawback for this one would be that you'd have to install Forrest to do that. Not a too steep learning curve anyway for someone familiar with XML and XSLT. More infos here: http://xml.apache.org/fop/dev/doc.html The file that would need to be changed is this one: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation/con tent/xdocs/compliance.ihtml Stylesheets used with the above document: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation/res ources/stylesheets/ ...
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Ignore the XML Graphics site. Just run Forrest from the root directory where you checked out FOP. FOP's site is in its own repo, not in the site repo from XML Graphics. On 30.07.2005 18:38:55 Manuel Mall wrote: Managed to install Forrest 0.7 and installed and built the xmlgraphics site from http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/site/. However, I am a bit confused about how this hangs together as there are two sites related to fop: xmlgraphics.apache.org and xml.apache.org/fop. So I can build with Forrest the xmlgraphics.apache.org site but I don't know how to build the xml.apache.org/fop site with Forrest. As the compliance page in question seems to reside under xml.apache.org/fop I am stuck. thks Manuel On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:11 pm, Jeremias Maerki wrote: ... The only drawback for this one would be that you'd have to install Forrest to do that. Not a too steep learning curve anyway for someone familiar with XML and XSLT. More infos here: http://xml.apache.org/fop/dev/doc.html The file that would need to be changed is this one: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation/con tent/xdocs/compliance.ihtml Stylesheets used with the above document: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/documentation/res ources/stylesheets/ ... Jeremias Maerki
getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Jeremias, happy to do so - I just setup Fop under NetBeans 4.1. However, where do I start for something like this? Manuel PS: I moved this thread over to fop-dev as I assume its more appropriate here. -Original Message- From: Jeremias Maerki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:08 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev No, but you're welcome to help improve the situation. :-) On 27.07.2005 03:50:46 Manuel Mall wrote: Jeremias post on fop-dev suggesting to push for a release made me curious to check out if the new trunk code will work with our application. Downloading it with subversion and building it with ant was not a big problem (These things never seem to be 100% straightforward). Some of the interfaces have changed and what was ...apps.Driver is now sort of ...apps.Fop. Not such a big deal especially as examples exist, just a nuisance if you only want to see if the new trunk code works with what we have got as it means code changes to existing code. However I am stuck with how to replace the old driver.getResults().getPageCount(). Is there something equivalent in 1.0dev? Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Manuel, thanks for grabbing this. I think the easiest thing will be to recreate what was in 0.20.5. It doesn't offer very much and I have a better overall mechanism in mind (as a long-term solution) but for the moment it is easiest to do that. Here's what I would do: - Copy over FormattingResults and PageSequenceResults over from 0.20.5 and replace the license header with the once you find all over FOP Trunk. - Go to org.apache.fop.area.AreaTreeHandler.endPageSequence() and build up the FormattingResults structure as it's done in 0.20.5 in StreamRenderer. AreaTreeHandler is more or less the old StreamRenderer. - When endPageSequence() is called you can probably derive the number of pages generated for a page-sequence by subtracting currentPageNumber from startPageNumber in layoutmgr.PageSequenceLayoutManager. - Find a way to access the FormattingResults structure in Fop.java like it was done in 0.20.5. As an alternative to doing this in AreaTreeHandler you might want to investigate fo.Root and fo.PageSequence but I'd prefer to have stuff like that in AreaTreeHandler. I hope that gives you some hints to do this. It shouldn't really be that hard. On 27.07.2005 08:13:58 Manuel Mall wrote: Jeremias, happy to do so - I just setup Fop under NetBeans 4.1. However, where do I start for something like this? Manuel PS: I moved this thread over to fop-dev as I assume its more appropriate here. -Original Message- From: Jeremias Maerki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:08 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev No, but you're welcome to help improve the situation. :-) On 27.07.2005 03:50:46 Manuel Mall wrote: Jeremias post on fop-dev suggesting to push for a release made me curious to check out if the new trunk code will work with our application. Downloading it with subversion and building it with ant was not a big problem (These things never seem to be 100% straightforward). Some of the interfaces have changed and what was ...apps.Driver is now sort of ...apps.Fop. Not such a big deal especially as examples exist, just a nuisance if you only want to see if the new trunk code works with what we have got as it means code changes to existing code. However I am stuck with how to replace the old driver.getResults().getPageCount(). Is there something equivalent in 1.0dev? Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeremias Maerki
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Jeremias, Excellent, thanks for the pointers. I'll have a go at it over the coming weekend as I am going away for a few days now. Manuel On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:43 pm, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Manuel, thanks for grabbing this. I think the easiest thing will be to recreate what was in 0.20.5. ...
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Don't AreaTreeModel.getPageSequenceCount() and AreaTreeModel.getPageCount(int seq) do this? AreaTreeHandler.model is the AreaTreeModel object. Simon On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 08:43:50AM +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Manuel, thanks for grabbing this. I think the easiest thing will be to recreate what was in 0.20.5. It doesn't offer very much and I have a better overall mechanism in mind (as a long-term solution) but for the moment it is easiest to do that. Here's what I would do: - Copy over FormattingResults and PageSequenceResults over from 0.20.5 and replace the license header with the once you find all over FOP Trunk. - Go to org.apache.fop.area.AreaTreeHandler.endPageSequence() and build up the FormattingResults structure as it's done in 0.20.5 in StreamRenderer. AreaTreeHandler is more or less the old StreamRenderer. - When endPageSequence() is called you can probably derive the number of pages generated for a page-sequence by subtracting currentPageNumber from startPageNumber in layoutmgr.PageSequenceLayoutManager. - Find a way to access the FormattingResults structure in Fop.java like it was done in 0.20.5. As an alternative to doing this in AreaTreeHandler you might want to investigate fo.Root and fo.PageSequence but I'd prefer to have stuff like that in AreaTreeHandler. I hope that gives you some hints to do this. It shouldn't really be that hard. On 27.07.2005 08:13:58 Manuel Mall wrote: Jeremias, happy to do so - I just setup Fop under NetBeans 4.1. However, where do I start for something like this? Manuel PS: I moved this thread over to fop-dev as I assume its more appropriate here. -Original Message- From: Jeremias Maerki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:08 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev No, but you're welcome to help improve the situation. :-) On 27.07.2005 03:50:46 Manuel Mall wrote: Jeremias post on fop-dev suggesting to push for a release made me curious to check out if the new trunk code will work with our application. Downloading it with subversion and building it with ant was not a big problem (These things never seem to be 100% straightforward). Some of the interfaces have changed and what was ...apps.Driver is now sort of ...apps.Fop. Not such a big deal especially as examples exist, just a nuisance if you only want to see if the new trunk code works with what we have got as it means code changes to existing code. However I am stuck with how to replace the old driver.getResults().getPageCount(). Is there something equivalent in 1.0dev? Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeremias Maerki -- Simon Pepping home page: http://www.leverkruid.nl
Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev
Right. I forgot that the AreaTreeModel keeps track of the page sequences. On 27.07.2005 21:41:27 Simon Pepping wrote: Don't AreaTreeModel.getPageSequenceCount() and AreaTreeModel.getPageCount(int seq) do this? AreaTreeHandler.model is the AreaTreeModel object. Simon On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 08:43:50AM +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote: Manuel, thanks for grabbing this. I think the easiest thing will be to recreate what was in 0.20.5. It doesn't offer very much and I have a better overall mechanism in mind (as a long-term solution) but for the moment it is easiest to do that. Here's what I would do: - Copy over FormattingResults and PageSequenceResults over from 0.20.5 and replace the license header with the once you find all over FOP Trunk. - Go to org.apache.fop.area.AreaTreeHandler.endPageSequence() and build up the FormattingResults structure as it's done in 0.20.5 in StreamRenderer. AreaTreeHandler is more or less the old StreamRenderer. - When endPageSequence() is called you can probably derive the number of pages generated for a page-sequence by subtracting currentPageNumber from startPageNumber in layoutmgr.PageSequenceLayoutManager. - Find a way to access the FormattingResults structure in Fop.java like it was done in 0.20.5. As an alternative to doing this in AreaTreeHandler you might want to investigate fo.Root and fo.PageSequence but I'd prefer to have stuff like that in AreaTreeHandler. I hope that gives you some hints to do this. It shouldn't really be that hard. On 27.07.2005 08:13:58 Manuel Mall wrote: Jeremias, happy to do so - I just setup Fop under NetBeans 4.1. However, where do I start for something like this? Manuel PS: I moved this thread over to fop-dev as I assume its more appropriate here. -Original Message- From: Jeremias Maerki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 27 July 2005 14:08 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: getPageCount and FOP 1.0dev No, but you're welcome to help improve the situation. :-) On 27.07.2005 03:50:46 Manuel Mall wrote: Jeremias post on fop-dev suggesting to push for a release made me curious to check out if the new trunk code will work with our application. Downloading it with subversion and building it with ant was not a big problem (These things never seem to be 100% straightforward). Some of the interfaces have changed and what was ...apps.Driver is now sort of ...apps.Fop. Not such a big deal especially as examples exist, just a nuisance if you only want to see if the new trunk code works with what we have got as it means code changes to existing code. However I am stuck with how to replace the old driver.getResults().getPageCount(). Is there something equivalent in 1.0dev? Jeremias Maerki - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeremias Maerki -- Simon Pepping home page: http://www.leverkruid.nl Jeremias Maerki
