otable for their scarceness.
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On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Nathan wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:13 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Whew. We as a community figured that it would be insuperable from
>> the get go, about 9 years ago. And Jimbo duely banned the first
>>
I'd like to point out here that the other points addressed in both of
> the controversial content resolutions
> (http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Images_of_identifiable_people
> and http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Controversial_content),
> though mu
iable starting position"? It, and all ideas
remotely like it never got any traction before. Maybe if you
think "We got nowhere before on this, we can only do better."
As to being surprised by searches. Talk to google image search.
Do you think they have mast
ACTA appears to be failing precisely because it was approved in smoke
filled rooms and merely rubberstamped by politicians after the
agreement. The real "snake in the grass" is still OPEN. They "make
believe" they are crowdsourcing the law phrasing. But it smells
precisely like the pathetic Britann
e is money, to the
> acknowledgement that it's time. We need to get better at
> conserving energy, focusing and saying no;
Focusing on saying "maybe" gets much better results in the
long run, and lots of less time gets wasted.
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a slight latitude. Even parliamentarism acknowledges
such terms as "free votes" that allow decisionmakers to let their constitutients
have a genuine sense where their representatives hearts truly lie.
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Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
than letting
it sail isn't quite what we do here. Yet oceans with geological timescales
yield high grounds where you can find ancient seafloors, and (if you
can imagine it?) high mountains with sharp edges, are turned into
rounded curves by the glaciers passing over them, with time.
If
ble* rather than hinder that, are a very
good indeed. And vice versa. We can only assert copyleft if copyright
is correctly followed. And if copyright is draconically asserted, our ability
to protect our copyleft is harmed just as much, if not more.
Just voted on the issues, so if any one is curio
han merely making it easier to exclude what
someone wants to make it easier for you to not find
you don't want to find. And it is done by the search engine software (at least
in theory), not people who are not the person browsing.
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hose
> examples without using them.
>
Best example is blueberry wine. It got merged in with fruit wine.
Truth is blueberry wine is not fruit wine, but pectine enzymatic over
the 16 % limit fermentation...Much stronger.
--
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I think it is important to remember that anyone trying to suppress the
truth, will lose in the long run.
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On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Fred Bauder wrote:
>> On 19 February 2012 18:06, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
>>> wrote:
>>>> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12:
>>>>
>&g
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
wrote:
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, 19/02/2012 08:12:
>
>> Do the people at MeatballWiki know?
>
>
> Why should they care?
>
This is where it all started,
http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToLeave
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On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Delirium wrote:
> On 2/19/12 2:29 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>>
>> The key problem here is that WP:UNDUE was expressly written to address
>> the problem of genuine ongoing controversies, and fringe views. In
>> this case there is
at I find discussing this is that, put in that context, the majority of
> people (at least that I've talked to) think the policy is correct and makes
> sense in that context. So the trick seems to be that it makes less sense in
> other contexts.
>
You are missing the point, th
epeneurs from draconian internet/IP legislation and international
treaties. This will now, once started, last years if not decades, and
we have to stand fast. It isn't our neutrality that is at stake, it is
our very existence, and our ability to stay neutral under pressure
from governments.
doing their job properly requires.
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#x27;s judgement
> that was called for with the Haymarket article.
A cop pulls over a black man and and follows the usual procedures. It turns
out he was a Harvard Professor. He failed to exercise good judgement.
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w editors from
protesting the validity of their case. I do believe this might have
some relevance to the low retention rate of new editors.
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Do the people at MeatballWiki know?
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quickly settled, so
>> there never arose a genuine review of the policy and its uses. The
>> fact that the policy is used in this fashion daily if not hourly.
>> Those (ab)uses just haven't been as glaringly obvious. I suspect we
>> all know that deep within our hearts,
obvious. I suspect we
all know that deep within our hearts, but loathe to go through the
tedium of overhauling a policy page with such deep devotees.
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fo
My read on this is that we did accomplish something for all time. We
established that we matter. "We" meaning the larger we, not wikipedia
google or any player, but the real body politic.
SOPA & PIPA are not dead, but they are in the long grass. ACTA it
appears is going the same way (hopefully) be
wrong" What's more there is a policy page on Wikipedia that is
"simply wrong". Namely Wikipedia's policy page specifically dedicated
to how players names should be spelled in the context of the National
Hockey League.
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ly and freely" discussed in
private, than being so discussed in public. If that was what was
genuinely happening. In practise what appeared to be the thing that
needed to be shielded from the public gaze was the process, not the
candidates or any speech about them. I am sorry, but I have
community seats. Secondly as past practise has shown, we really
don't want thin-skinned people on the board. That leads to escalation
of drama, not reduction of it.
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p?diff=78986&oldid=78985
>> [3] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff_and_contractors
The problem you have, there, is thinking "president" is a title in
some historical inalienable sense. It isn't. Grammatically it can
still be used in the plain sense as denoting &quo
D/3/3/european_parliament_official_in_charge_of_acta_quits_and_denounces_the_masquerade_behind_acta/
>>
I have said before, that SOPA, PIPA and ACTA are smoke-screens for
OPEN, which is a nasty beast like none of the other four. It
> community.
The community can fork.And If it cannot, WMF is a colossal failure wrt
to its stated mission statement.
l
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d you are on hard moderation" response,
and monthly moderation limits should be lifted entirely. We really
are on war footing. Not bean-bags at 50 yards footing. We need
to sort things out, and more talk is a good thing, not a bad thing.
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erver based versions.
>
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ts mission, rather than help us steer our mission so that we as
a movement can be more "effective" in some political game.
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On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 2:12 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 22 January 2012 23:50, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>
>> So we will put a few fallback datacenters elsewhere, just so our
>> various communities and chapters realize we aren't going to be
>> bullied by US jur
e effective,
without costing the Foundation a single backhander.
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hyperbole to say it could totally
destroy what Wikimedia is about. Can somebody pass this on to people
who work on these issues.
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timate question.) What if messages used to attract
donors and
spending being in line with our mission are in conflict? Which comes up
trumps? And if it is our mission that comes up trumps should we
confidently tell the donors that is the way it is going to be for
ever, and that our view of ou
t migrate and fork to a jurisdiction
outside the US control. If that is needed.
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lost, and
there need never have been any [[Anjala conspiracy]].
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hings. You aren't put into your positions to sell things to the
community. You are their servants. Get it?
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am the source of rudeness.
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as you seem to have a compulsive need to. Read
the words. Think for youself.
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I'ng the shit out of our processes?"
You will find that we are pretty inured against such approaches.
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On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 7:57 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 24 December 2011 17:45, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>
>>> I'm quite keen on the idea of a free-form comment box accessible to
>>> those wanting to edit. It's much more accessible article feedback than
&g
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 7:28 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 24 December 2011 17:10, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>
>> I do not think the aims of the mechanism are wrong. But I *do* think the
>> mechanism itself and any attempts to fashion such in a universe of human
>&g
g. But I *do* think the
mechanism itself and any attempts to fashion such in a universe of human
beings is totally and fundamentally disrespectful towards reality. That is the
hard shoulder.
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uot;consensus".
The former is what people inside your own mind think, the latter is what a group
of people think (and usually act upon).
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27;t, honestly, making that much sense.
>
Would you be happy to take this into private e-mail. I don't think any
intelligent
readers are much impressed by your logic...
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foundati
ssive
rather than aggressive about the way things are allowed as valid contributions
to the encyclopaedia, is worse than being up front about it". Is that succint
enough for you?
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ound how you "approve"
(or "reify" or whatever) an edit is the nucleus of the issue. It has
failed, it will fail and no amount of trying to push on a string will
make it succeed.
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working for the right goal. If you have that, everything else flows from that.
If you worry about whether you are fulfilling all the conflicting requirements
coming at you from various sides, you are in for a hiding to nothing. You
won't win, you may not lose, but your position will be ever vulnerabl
the one thing
that was demonstrably a total timewaster and failure, namely Nupedia.
Just because you are fiddling the bits doesn't mean you are improving
things. Usually you are just making them fail less badly. Not a way to
design winning mechanisms.
-
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Liam Wyatt wrote:
> On 24/12/2011, at 17:38, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>
>
> Trying to do something and not succeeding is not a failure - so long as we
> learn from the mistakes. As it says on the door as you leave the WMF office
> [s
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Liam Wyatt wrote:
> On 24/12/2011, at 17:38, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>
>> I hope you will forgive me for being a bit terse and blunt. It is the
> season
>> for unpalatable truths, and not just in Scotland. To an impartial observer
>&
ocus pocus and arm
waving and say "It is alive! It is alive!"
... And then see it just fall on its face like the corpse it is.
Cue even more bubbling vials with smoke and sparks. "Let's try again!
This time it will work!"
--
--
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should be
deployed side-wide. Please tell me I am hallucinating, misreading
you grotesquely, or there is some other clear communication disconnect!
Perhaps it is as simple a misapprehension as that while you linked
to an english language page on tbe tool, in fact it has translations
in se
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen > wrote:
>
>> I don't claim to have made a special study of the issue, but have had it
>> pretty much forced down my throat by circumstances. While our laws h
this view that
we are "unported" and merely acknowledge the right of countries to not
adhere to the onerous and WMF-centric attribution praxis. It would be
very useful for the foundation to admit, that absolutely nobody needs to
attribute WMF if they just mention a few chief au
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> On 14/12/2011 2:04 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>> I am genuinely not anti-american. The logic here does escape me though.
>
> From a lawmaker's point of view, this is clear enough: US-based
> websites ar
processors. The new version now exempts U.S. sites like ours."
I am genuinely not anti-american. The logic here does escape me though.
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On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
> On 12/13/11 12:14 PM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>> Using an URL does allow the semblance of attribution, but does not
>> fulfil the legal requirements of moral rights. I find it mildly
>> distasteful, that
>> o
how those differ from what we actually advise people to do when they
reuse content... ?
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egal text, but it would be extremely useful in the
"human readable version". (By this I do not exclude lawyers from the class
of humans; but merely imply that the humans are a more inclusive class.)
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__
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> On 01/12/2011 7:58 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
>> "[...] yes, we may be building up a list of categories that could be
>> reused by censorware sellers, but that’s not our primary intention."
>
> I&
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:50 PM, Andre Engels wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>
>> Am I being dense, or are you being silly? Blocking advocacy from a site with
>> a NPOV policy is a bajillion miles from being censorship.
>
> It
n of the proposal that was then on
> the table or a rejection of filtering in principle.
Am I being dense, or are you being silly? Blocking advocacy from a site with
a NPOV policy is a bajillion miles from being censorship. What? I am wrong?
How so?
--
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's Wikimedia viewing.
If you mean me, I am not asserting, I am reminding that this issue has been
visited and revisited more times than anybody can be bothered to count. And
the consensus has always been the same. The definition of insanity is trying
the same thing over and over ag
ch the WMF could usefully emulate.
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On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Tom Morris wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 09:11, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>> This is not a theoretical risk. This has happened. Most famously in
>> the case of Virgin using pictures of persons that were licenced under
>> a free licen
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Tom Morris wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 03:34, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>>
>> While I don't find that line of argument to be a fully fledged
>> straw-horse argument, it
>> does appear to me to be a cherry-picked argume
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Tom Morris wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 03:34, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>>
>> While I don't find that line of argument to be a fully fledged
>> straw-horse argument, it
>> does appear to me to be a cherry-picked argume
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Tom Morris wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 03:34, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>>
>> While I don't find that line of argument to be a fully fledged
>> straw-horse argument, it
>> does appear to me to be a cherry-picked argume
to
refute. There are
much stronger arguments, both practical and philosophical, at any
attempt to elide
controversial content. Even as such, I am not convinced by the
argumentation, but
would not prefer to rebut an argument that does not address the
strongest reasons
for opposing elision of controversial
rally obligated to try to mitigate any attempts
to subvert the use of such a knowledge-base. Which, I do assure you,
might not prove to be a trivial task.
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foun
#x27;t like it when
google was prejudicially priviledging other results above ones from
wikipedia (a practise they no longer adhere to). I don't see much of
a difference here.
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fou
udimentary good-faith effort at listening what the
other side is telling them. Just doing a lot of hand-waving and
misdirection. Case in point, ditching the idea of a "category
based filtering scheme" as if that particular bit was what
people were opposing. Not even close. There is still
the community is against, it is the whole frigging
priniple of the thing. Wake up and smell the
coffee.
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ke "some people", "a few people" is a pathetic representation
of the reality. It isn't a minority you want to address/oppose, but a huge and
strong entrenched core group. Pretending otherwise is just pure madness.
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al opinion. But it
is just your personal opinion. Do you have references to any pages or
other sources that support there is *any* significant portion of wikipedians
or wikipedia readers who feel even close to the way you feel?
Or are you just a voice crying out in the wilderness?
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On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 10:57 AM, M. Williamson wrote:
> Which article was it?
Something on immigration. Moron is of the party who doesn't realize we
*need* immigrants.
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Not sure if this is appropriate for this list, but just for lulz. A
finnish member of
parliament just got caught for his speech being a word for word piece of
snippets from a Finnish Wikipedia article. No intervening binding lines, just
the Wikipedia text. Way to go!!!
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On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Tom Morris wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 21:03, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>> Hi;
>>
>> Could I humbly suggest the image in the campaign notice bar be moved
>> to the other edge of the page. In the default skins, the article
.
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ed summarily
outright). Tonyt Sideaway can back me up on this, if he is still reading
this list, but the creator of Albedo Anthropomorphics is a genuinely
notable figure in the furry movement; if not its father or atleast god-father.
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nother famous movie quote. "Build it and they will come."
Welll there is an obverse side to that coin. "Tear it down, and they won't
come anymore."
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r
in dimes to their designated charity. And I say this with a straight face,
this might well bankrupt me.
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ts considered vital. My guess is that quite a few of the
elements of such are already in the code.
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olitely. :-)
>
You are being very much too kind to Erik here, This is the rhetorical
bottom of the barrel. Claiming you can read the other persons mind
through telepathy.
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foun
them like are shit you can
walk all over by a board decision that seems to have spawned from
somebody in bedlam. That is what you have to worry about. Sorrry
again if my "tone" isn't to your liking. But be realistic and face the
facts. There would be no wikipedia without the people wh
>> >
>> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/26/0451240/new-version-of-protect-ip-bill-
>> > may-target-legal-sites
>> >>
>> >
>> > Well, the servers still could be moved to Europe.
>> >
This one
e absolute the issue is pretty much a dead horse. I personally
think my level of civility on the issue is pretty much consistent on the
height of feeling on this issue from the community side. You are free
to disagree.
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ther?
The resolution was always against long held perennial proposal
opposition. It never was going to fly. Walk away from the dead horse.
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On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Andrew Garrett wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>> This is very very meta. But in my own defence, I haven't posted
>> anything for over a year. Mourning my dearly departed mother. I have
>> sa
hat monthly limits are prejudicial against those that
rarely post, but do post when the expletive hits the fan; and do so
with the full force of conviction they are expressing the views of the
community. Nuff said. Go ahead and moderate this, if you like.
--
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Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
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On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Andreas K. wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen > wrote:
>
>> As a person from a more nordic and perhaps even ruder than brazilian
>> culture, We did confront a teacher who was in her retirement age with
>>
here have been attempts to do so, but they have
all failed. We excercise editorial judgement where needed. Which is as
it should be.
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Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
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. Being against censorship only
>> matters when there is a potential outrage there...
>
>
> On Wikipedia this is called vandalism and trolling; and we *do* censor it :)
>
No we don't and that is the whole point. We edit. We don't censor,
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Jussi-Ville Heiskanen,
s sounds totally offensive on the face of
it, but surely that is the whole point. Being against censorship only
matters when there is a potential outrage there...
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Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
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solutions.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Controversial_content/Problems
>
>
If I may be so blunt. What part of non-negotiable don't people quite grasp?
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Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
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On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Andrew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
> wrote:
>> Yes, but that is not proof of what we as a community understand the
>> principle to mean, it means the board is on crack.
>
> That's not a
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