Re: [Foundation-l] Trademarks

2008-11-27 Thread Ray Saintonge
Geoffrey Plourde wrote: No what is wrong with wikipedia brand dog food (provided that we receive a cut?)? We just need to hope it's not a cut with melamine. Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:

Re: [Foundation-l] Site Notices Phase 2 - Annual Fundraiser 2008

2008-11-28 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: We determined that you are a public charity under the Code section(s) listed in the heading of this letter [i.e. 170(b)(1)(A)(vi)]. I still have no opinion on what to call it. And I'll admit that despite the fact that I said charity was a less precise term above (which I said

Re: [Foundation-l] Making Wikimedia Commons less frightening

2008-12-13 Thread Ray Saintonge
Lars Aronsson wrote: Finn Rindahl wrote If there was more active admins, we could have done our job better - especially when it comes to take the necessary time to communicate with the other users who need help. The only way as I see it to actually get volunteers to work at Commons is to

Re: [Foundation-l] and what if...

2008-12-14 Thread Ray Saintonge
Todd Allen wrote: Yes, all states have laws. It is the content of those laws which determines whether or not the state is a free and open society. One may have a free and open society that is not an anarchy. Prior-restraint censorship, or blocking people from seeing, discussing, and thinking

Re: [Foundation-l] and what if...

2008-12-14 Thread Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote: Yes, all states have laws. It is the content of those laws which determines whether or not the state is a free and open society. One may have a free and open society that is not an anarchy. If the country has free and fair elections for its leaders then it is a

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008-12-25 Thread Ray Saintonge
Fred Bauder wrote: I must agree with Mr Gerard, and taking that position, or any position by the Foundation is a road I don't want to see WMF go down. I don't want WMF to alienate anyone... anyone. The information must be free, and global. For everyone. Please don't intrepet this message

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008-12-25 Thread Ray Saintonge
Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: On Wednesday 24 December 2008 11:02, David Gerard wrote: Yes. However, it could be a valuable wiki to create privately. Generic hosting is (a) really cheap (b) often includes MediaWiki out the box. The wiki is unlikely to be vastly overloaded, so cheap hosting

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008-12-25 Thread Ray Saintonge
Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote: I fail to see how simply presenting a list of peoples' names and telling their stories constitutes taking partisan sides in political disputes. It's educating people about the impact of these events, plain and simple. If we cannot present the personal tragedy

Re: [Foundation-l] New project proposal: Soviet Repressions Memorial

2008-12-25 Thread Ray Saintonge
Fred Bauder wrote: Can you and Kurt come up with a proposal that doesn't abandon our fabulously useful and marketable air of neutrality? Yes, good thought, I think we could. After all, it is a sort of cemetery. Maybe it would be better to start the project on Wikia. That would

Re: [Foundation-l] Fundraiser update

2009-01-08 Thread Ray Saintonge
Erik Moeller wrote: As a 23-people organization, it's clear that our communication efforts need to culminate in volunteer-driven efforts of both a proactive and reactive nature. That's already the case to a great degree (thanks to volunteers like yourself), and I hope that we will continue to

Re: [Foundation-l] GFDL QA update and question

2009-01-11 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Samuel Klein wrote: A prize for best cross-media reuse of content - I love it. I will contribute to the prize pool one large gnu, and one piece of similarly huggable CC swag, signed by free-content luminaries To Be Named. --SJ How does

Re: [Foundation-l] How to dismantle a language committee

2009-01-12 Thread Ray Saintonge
Marcus Buck wrote: Tim Starling hett schreven: Marcus Buck wrote: In the Arabic world there's a prevalent POV, that Arabs form one nation united by the use of the Arabic language. But in reality Standard Arabic is something like Latin. With the difference, that Latin fell out of

Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename

2009-01-19 Thread Ray Saintonge
H wrote: Beta wikiversity is a hub for multiligual cooperation and the incubator is just part of it. The proposed multilingual wikibooks is for hosting books which cannot find home comfortably in any language edition. It is fitting to have, for example, the link from a page in

Re: [Foundation-l] Commons and The Year of the Picture

2009-01-27 Thread Ray Saintonge
Sam Johnston wrote: Gerard Meijssen wrote: If you are of the opinion that things can be done differently, please explain how. A printer makes money, that is how he earns his crust. So how would non-profit printing work. Does it exist ? You are also under the impression that we are meeting

Re: [Foundation-l] Commons and The Year of the Picture

2009-01-28 Thread Ray Saintonge
Sam Johnston wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote: Just how much control do you expect from the Central Committee? Sure, it's a given that some will-intentioned initiatives will go dreadfully awry. Bad things have happened in the past, and bad things will happen

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia IdeaTorrent?

2009-01-28 Thread Ray Saintonge
Platonides wrote: Erik Moeller wrote: If you haven't seen it yet, Ubuntu is running an interesting brainstorming software called IdeaTorrent to think collectively about common problems and solutions: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ The software: http://www.ideatorrent.org/ I wonder -

Re: [Foundation-l] Commons and The Year of the Picture

2009-01-28 Thread Ray Saintonge
Sam Johnston wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.ukwrote: 2009/1/28 Sam Johnston s...@samj.net: Material in the public domain or under a fully free licence does not require any kind of fair use consideration. I'm not talking about

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia IdeaTorrent?

2009-01-28 Thread Ray Saintonge
Brianna Laugher wrote: Is there a way to separate requests e.g. for different projects? Wikimedia Commons, Wikibooks, Wikinews, Wikisource, Wikipedia. Plus a general/default section for stuff that benefits multiple/all projects. I considered that possibility too. If one such site catches

Re: [Foundation-l] Agreement between WMF and O'Reilly Media about Wikipedia: The Missing Manual on Wikipedia?

2009-01-29 Thread Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/1/28 Andrew Whitworth wknight8...@gmail.com: Wikipedia would have to write some kind of special exception to every rule to allow this book to exist there. We already have the only exception we need: IAR. (That doesn't means Wikibooks wouldn't handle it

Re: [Foundation-l] Agreement between WMF and O'Reilly Media about Wikipedia: The Missing Manual on Wikipedia?

2009-01-29 Thread Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/1/28 effe iets anders effeietsand...@gmail.com: Maybe a silly question, but nobody is stopping anyone to copy it to Wikibooks. The question is mainly, should it be deleted from Wikipedia. I agree there with Erik, that this is clearly a community decision. Why

Re: [Foundation-l] Agreement between WMF and O'Reilly Media about Wikipedia: The Missing Manual on Wikipedia?

2009-01-29 Thread Ray Saintonge
Andrew Gray wrote: 2009/1/28 geni: Copyright issues mean that it will be heading for deletio n once we switch toi CC-BY-SA-3.0. Yes, along with all the other imported GFDL material... oh, wait, sorry, I mean all the material which a contributor has chosen to license under GFDL 1.2

Re: [Foundation-l] The reality of printing a poster

2009-01-30 Thread Ray Saintonge
Gerard Meijssen wrote: When I print a poster, and the license and the contributors have to be printed on it as well, the image of the picture is spoiled for me. This would be a reason for me to return the printed poster. So let us be practical, WHERE do you want to have all the information

Re: [Foundation-l] RfC: License update proposal

2009-01-30 Thread Ray Saintonge
Michael Snow wrote: Requirements like that (the US used to require a copyright notice) have been stripped away as an unreasonable burden on authors. I don't think that that was the reason. The publishers would be the ones to make sure that the notice was there anyway. Like abandoning the

Re: [Foundation-l] RfC: License update proposal

2009-01-30 Thread Ray Saintonge
Delirium wrote: Anthony wrote: My point of view is that the proposed license update is a violation of the moral rights of the contributors. If Mike is going to deny that moral rights exist in the first place, then I feel the need to explain that they do. The problem is that moral

Re: [Foundation-l] RfC: License update proposal

2009-01-31 Thread Ray Saintonge
David Goodman wrote: My view is that any restriction of distribution that is not absolutely and unquestionably legally necessary is a violation of the moral rights of the contributors. We contributed to a free encyclopedia, in the sense that the material could be used freely--and widely. We

Re: [Foundation-l] Re-licensing

2009-01-31 Thread Ray Saintonge
George Herbert wrote: Used relative to copyright law, the term unambiguously means what Mike is saying, the rights that Europe (and others) have assigned to actual authors distinct from copyright owners etc. The specific term as used in copyright law (as Mike says, a term of the art in that

Re: [Foundation-l] Re-licensing

2009-01-31 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: Actually, the difference is quite relevant in a courtroom, especially when dealing with constitutional issues. That's why I find it nearly impossible to believe that Mike doesn't understand this. How in the world can you defend people's constitutional rights if you think

Re: [Foundation-l] Re-licensing

2009-02-01 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: Maybe you could explain the etymology of that term for us, Mike. Your last paragraph seems to imply that you understand it. Per Eric Partridge's Origins, both words are Latin in origin. Moral is from mores the plural of mos indicating a way of carrying oneself, hence

Re: [Foundation-l] RfC: License update proposal

2009-02-01 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:14 AM, David Goodman wrote I am proud of my work, not of my name being on my work. that's narcissism. In any case, I find it hard to see how, in this particular context, you could be proud of your work but not at least prefer your name to be on it.

Re: [Foundation-l] RfC: License update proposal

2009-02-01 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Ray Saintonge wrote: I have no complaints about commercial use, but I am concerned when a commercial user massively takes freely licensed or public domain material and parks them under the umbrella of his copyrights so that the users of his material

Re: [Foundation-l] RfC: License update proposal

2009-02-01 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Ray Saintonge wrote: I guess that some of us are nothing more than unrepentant altruists. We believe that free works belong to everybody. If something is of great value to you don't need for anyone to tell you that; you already know it. How does knowing

Re: [Foundation-l] RfC: License update proposal

2009-02-02 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Ray Saintonge wrote: The only reason that moral rights is an issue is its inclusion in the statutes of various countries. It mostly stems from an inflated Napoleonic view of the Rights of Man that was meant to replace the divine rights of kings. Common

Re: [Foundation-l] The reality of printing a poster

2009-02-03 Thread Ray Saintonge
Sam Johnston wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, The economics of it are such that there is a real fine balance between cheap and expensive. I positvely hate text on my posters. Printing on the back is two prints and that IS expensive. My point has been and

Re: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikinews-l] Increased incivility at wikinews [en] warning: contains rant

2009-02-05 Thread Ray Saintonge
Philippe|Wiki wrote: Marc, without denying or confirming there are problems with discourse at Wikinews (because I have no personal knowledge), I would posit that your messages about this topic to this list have been a little... terse. Cary was proposing some perfectly valid thoughts

Re: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikinews-l] Increased incivility at wikinews [en] warning: contains rant

2009-02-05 Thread Ray Saintonge
Marc Riddell wrote: on 2/5/09 10:45 AM, Andrew Whitworth at wknight8...@gmail.com wrote: The foundation is not likely to be able to do anything, even if it is willing (which I doubt). It makes some sense to treat them as the authority figure of last resort, but that isn't reality. A

Re: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikinews-l] Increased incivility at wikinews [en] warning: contains rant

2009-02-05 Thread Ray Saintonge
George Herbert wrote: That it will probably take that long is unfortunate, but large online communities become very unwieldy in some ways. Having realism about the community dynamics is a necessary step in engaging in them as an agent of change. The model for this kind of community has

Re: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikinews-l] Increased incivility at wikinews [en] warning: contains rant

2009-02-05 Thread Ray Saintonge
Andrew Whitworth wrote: If a project so large in size and scope as English Wikipedia is having these problems with hostility and incivility, you're maybe seeing a manifestation of problems in human nature itself. See [[w:Dunbar's Number]] for more information about large groups like this. If

Re: [Foundation-l] Steward elections: summary, week one

2009-02-13 Thread Ray Saintonge
geni wrote: 2009/2/9 Tomasz Ganicz polime...@gmail.com: The real danger is that stewards have access to global checkuser, so they can theoretically be used to trace users when forced by secret police of an non-democratic country. However, various special forces and secret services of

Re: [Foundation-l] Simple English Encyclopedia

2009-02-23 Thread Ray Saintonge
Brian Salter-Duke wrote: However my central point that a discussion of something as important as closing one of our most important projects in a way that few know about it remains. The !vote is 42:102. We get more at en:WP on a RFA. A further argument against having this principally discussed

Re: [Foundation-l] Request for your input: biographies of living people

2009-03-02 Thread Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote: Flagged Revs is an excellent way of dealing with vandalism to BLPs, technical solutions to more subtle problems are a little trickier. Flagged Revs could be used with addition levels - a free of vandalism level and a well balanced, fact-checked and free of anything

Re: [Foundation-l] Request for your input: biographies of living people

2009-03-04 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Ray Saintonge wrote: I'm making a point of replying to this before I read any of the other responses to avoid being tainted by them. Since I think you make several insightful observations well worth focusing on, I hope you will in return not mind me

Re: [Foundation-l] Request for your input: biographies of living people

2009-03-04 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Sue Gardner wrote: * Wikimedians have developed lots of tools for preventing/fixing vandalism and errors of fact. Where less progress has been made, I think, is on the question of disproportionate criticism. It seems to me that the solution may include the

Re: [Foundation-l] Request for your input: biographies of living people

2009-03-04 Thread Ray Saintonge
Fred Bauder wrote: This would exclude a great deal of pornographic actresses and actors. Which I don't think is a bad thing, in fact. I'm far from a prude, but someone who is solely notable for appearing in a few pornographic films seems to contradict what our policy is regarding other

Re: [Foundation-l] Request for your input: biographies of living people

2009-03-05 Thread Ray Saintonge
Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, My English is considered to be quite good. I have not learned any new words and I do not mind to have an occassional word. For me this was excessive and it stopped my reading and my interest. Thanks, Gerard PS David, what was you first language again ?

Re: [Foundation-l] Attribution survey, first results

2009-03-09 Thread Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/3/4 Anthony: What constitutes a significant majority? What if the survey results had said that a significant majority was happy with their work being released into the public domain. Would you then find it reasonable to release *everyone's* work into the public

Re: [Foundation-l] Attribution survey, first results

2009-03-09 Thread Ray Saintonge
David Gerard wrote: Remember that licenses are not merely a game of Nomic, but responses to a given legal threat model. Not necessarily a given legal threat, but an even weaker perceived legal threat. In this case, the threat model is: what if some raving and/or malicious lunatic who has

[Foundation-l] Pissed off at en:Wikisource

2009-03-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
The behaviour of three people in driving me out of adminship at en:wikisource has left me bitterly disappointed with and deeply offended by the length to which some will go to rid themselves of someone whom they personally dislike. I cannot but view their efforts as anything but a series of

Re: [Foundation-l] Attribution survey, first results

2009-03-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
geni wrote: 2009/3/10 Ray Saintonge: Milos Rancic wrote: On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:07 PM, geni wrote: 2009/3/9 Milos Rancic: So, they don't care about their own copyright law. Common law is very much driven by legal precedent. Looking to see what

Re: [Foundation-l] Pissed off at en:Wikisource

2009-03-12 Thread Ray Saintonge
John Vandenberg wrote: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: I have no idea of the en.ws situation, nor do I want to have any idea, but I would like to remark that leaving such things to the community decision is a good idea only if the community

Re: [Foundation-l] Pissed off at en:Wikisource

2009-03-12 Thread Ray Saintonge
Birgitte SB wrote: Sorry but there is no reason to have a RFC on Meta for anything remotely like this situation. And I would say that if were regarding any wiki (I am sure I have said that for similar situations on other wikis in the past). The wikis are autonomous on these issues. If

Re: [Foundation-l] Pissed off at en:Wikisource

2009-03-13 Thread Ray Saintonge
Birgitte SB wrote: --- On Thu, 3/12/09, Ray Saintonge wrote: In the course of the discussion about me, I considered coming here at an early stage, but decided that I would let things play out on wiki first. I did not raise the issue here until a few days after the decision

Re: [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language

2009-03-14 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Language will not bind contributors who understand they are protected by the copyleft provisions of both GFDL and CC-BY-SA. That just will not happen. In the real world much of the terms of use will be just so much arm-waving, let us be realistic. This just

Re: [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language

2009-03-15 Thread Ray Saintonge
geni wrote: 2009/3/15 Charlotte Webb : On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote: If the people producing the mugs want that they are free to produce a version of the history on their servers or more legally more solid include a sheet of paper with a complete list

Re: [Foundation-l] Non-free content on Commons

2009-04-01 Thread Ray Saintonge
Pedro Sanchez wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: This is a (predominantly) English-language mailing list, so using those traditions used in the English-speaking world seems to make sense to me. Of course, wasting resources on april

Re: [Foundation-l] NYTimes article: Exploring Fact City

2009-04-01 Thread Ray Saintonge
The Cunctator wrote: A lovely article. The only pity is it doesn't note how much of this social theory of wikis owes to Sunir Shah's pioneering work on MeatballWiki. A nostalgically memorable moment for me was sitting at a table full of beer just listening to Sunir Shah and Ward

Re: [Foundation-l] Frustration with the conversion engines issue

2009-04-02 Thread Ray Saintonge
Aryeh Gregor wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Ziko van Dijk zvand...@googlemail.com wrote: I am sceptical about automatic conversion. As you said, it is mainly a solution for reading, but not for writing, because the source text is in one specific spelling or character system.

Re: [Foundation-l] Court: Congress can't put public domain back into copyright

2009-04-06 Thread Ray Saintonge
Dan Rosenthal wrote: The 10th circuit (or the US District Court for Colorado, which actually made the decision on remand from the 10th circuit) does not cover the ninth circuit either. AFAICT Eldred v. Ashcroft remains the latest SCOTUS case on the matter. If you read Larry Lessigs blog

Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

2009-04-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
Fred Bauder wrote: I think the assumption is that any Wikipedia will adopt the general policies found on the English Wikipedia, but tailor them for local conditions. A project which wishes to significantly deviate from the general principles of everyone can edit, neutral point of view, and

Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

2009-04-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
Fred Bauder wrote: However, I have faith that any Wikipedia will, through experience, learn that such a policy is required and adapt it. I think that is healthy, to develop policies as you learn from experience. They mean more. This is important, but in conflict with having pre-determined

Re: [Foundation-l] Compulsory policies for all Wikipedias

2009-04-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
Nemo_bis wrote: Jaska Zedlik, 09/04/2009 19:49: So, does an all-Wikipedias rules list exist, or if not, what are there global rules which all the Wikipedias must follow? Yes: e.g. http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Licensing_policy (surprisingly not yet mentioned). But

Re: [Foundation-l] NPOV as common value? (was Re: Board statement regarding biographies of living people)

2009-04-23 Thread Ray Saintonge
David Gerard wrote: 2009/4/22 Milos Rancic And if you want to force any kind of neutrality there, you would get the same kind of scientific production which existed in East European countries during 50s and 60s: A (very good) book about ancient Greek literature starts with 20-30 pages of

Re: [Foundation-l] More on Wikimedia strategic planning

2009-05-02 Thread Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/5/1 phoebe ayers: On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/5/1 Samuel Klein: On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/4/30 Samuel Klein: I'd like to see Wikimedia as a community take some

Re: [Foundation-l] More on Wikimedia strategic planning

2009-05-02 Thread Ray Saintonge
geni wrote: 2009/5/1 phoebe ayers phoebe.w...@gmail.com: Besides, this is a (slightly long) generation, which makes a useful human-scaled measure to think in. I really want my kids, at some point, to be able to say in exasperation, Mom, this isn't *your* Wikipedia anymore! Or better yet:

Re: [Foundation-l] More on Wikimedia strategic planning

2009-05-02 Thread Ray Saintonge
geni wrote: 2009/5/2 Ray Saintonge: If wikipedia like collections of information are still being written by human beings in a couple of decades I will be rather surprised. We've already to a large extent reached the point where the quickest way to fill in info boxes would be computers

Re: [Foundation-l] More on Wikimedia strategic planning

2009-05-03 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Besides the off-planet complete database-backup I envisioned, another intriguing conceit would be to start on the process of transcribing wikipedia onto vellum with non-corrosive and persistent ink (I don't think there are enough stone tablets, or even clay for

Re: [Foundation-l] Murdoch newspaper websites to go paywall -opportunity for citizen journalism!

2009-05-11 Thread Ray Saintonge
Fred Bauder wrote: If things were different, they would be different. Right now Wikinews can serve as an aggregator of news first published elsewhere, but Google and Yahoo can do it better. We can do some original work, at our own expense. When and if the crisis affecting paper newspapers

Re: [Foundation-l] Murdoch newspaper websites to go paywall -opportunity for citizen journalism!

2009-05-11 Thread Ray Saintonge
Nathan wrote: The biggest problem for Wikinews in my mind is that delivering news is a competitive and innovative business. In the on-line and comprehensive encyclopedia vacuum, Wikipedia was able to be get there first, with the most and draw eyeballs and participants by being the leader.

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia is not the Karma Sutra, was Re: commons and freely licensed sexual imagery

2009-05-15 Thread Ray Saintonge
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: Have you any idea how california-centered that sounds? We all stood shoulder to shoulder against Uwe Kils and the Norwegian Vikings, and this is what we get? A more perniciously, smoother talked version of the same old spiel. One would be really excused at this

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia is not censored (was Wikipedia is not the Karma Sutra, was Re: commons and freely licensed sexual imagery

2009-05-18 Thread Ray Saintonge
Nathan wrote: On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: What I'd like to see is a preferences framework that allows people to subscribe to a set of opt-in viewing/reading options similar to how we currently can add JS widgets. If any of them become so

Re: [Foundation-l] Open teaching materials in the Netherlands

2009-05-19 Thread Ray Saintonge
Dedalus wrote: Ziko wrote: Nearly all already existing initiatives for open teaching materials use the CC-NC-SA, the Creative Commons license that prohibits commercial use. I was told that you cannot explain to teachers why others should have the right to commercially exploit their work...

[Foundation-l] Vancouver open source

2009-05-26 Thread Ray Saintonge
Some may find this interesting. http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/05/22/tech-vancouver-open-source-standards-software-city.html Ec ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:

Re: [Foundation-l] Information about 2009 Board of Trustees election

2009-05-27 Thread Ray Saintonge
Robert Rohde wrote: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM, philippe philippe.w...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, OK, sorry for my misunderstanding of the question. Indeed, we had that same discussion amongst the committee. In the end, the vote timing is driven by Wikimania and the need to purchase

Re: [Foundation-l] Third-party GFDL text irrevocably incompatible with Wikipedia as of August 1

2009-05-27 Thread Ray Saintonge
Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) wrote: The point I was making is that I expect people will continue importing and exporting as per past practice with no attention given to the issue and few people caring. From a legal point of view that's not optimal, but I think it's highly likely. That's a

Re: [Foundation-l] Third-party GFDL text irrevocably incompatible with Wikipedia as of August 1

2009-05-27 Thread Ray Saintonge
effe iets anders wrote: Which makes me wonder how a judge would rule on this btw. Because if the GFDL and CCBYSA are enough similar before the deadline to interchange, why wouldn't they be afterwards? Except for that line in the GFDL version, I don't see legal reasoning behind that... So just

Re: [Foundation-l] Third-party GFDL text irrevocably incompatible with Wikipedia as of August 1

2009-05-28 Thread Ray Saintonge
Samuel Klein wrote: Ray Saintonge wrote: Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) wrote: The point I was making is that I expect people will continue importing and exporting as per past practice with no attention given to the issue and few people caring. From a legal point of view that's

Re: [Foundation-l] One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

2009-05-31 Thread Ray Saintonge
geni wrote: Now a lot of those languages are Indian which since they tend to be fairly closely related and bilingualism is fairly common Bengali, Hindi, Punjabi and English should cover most cases. That's very generously European of you. The three Indian languages that you chose are all

Re: [Foundation-l] One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

2009-05-31 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:50 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: Dead tree technology. Wikipedia based encyclopedias in the most widely used languages. Select the 40K most important articles (that will be fun). Do you really think the 40K most important Wikipedia

Re: [Foundation-l] Google Wave and Wikimedia projects

2009-06-03 Thread Ray Saintonge
Milos Rancic wrote: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Lars Aronsson l...@aronsson.se wrote: It says that as long as we follow Google's protocol standard, they won't sue us for infringing on their patents (patents necessarily infringed by implementation of this specification). Oh, how very

Re: [Foundation-l] Google Translate now assists with human translations of Wikipedia articles

2009-06-09 Thread Ray Saintonge
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: Machine translation in its current status is so useless for anything beyond ordering Opera Garnier tickets, that the copyright status of its output is not quite relevant and i don't expect this to change in the next fifty years.

Re: [Foundation-l] Google Translate now assists with humantranslations of Wikipedia articles

2009-06-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
Bennó wrote: Let me agree with it completely (out of the shadow ;). This feature's aim is obviously to help understand totally alien texts to a certain [at least minimal?] extent. This whole thing has absolutely nothing to do with 'translation/interpretation' in it's proper sense. It's a pair

Re: [Foundation-l] Google Translate now assists with human translations of Wikipedia articles

2009-06-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
Brian wrote: Of course these are now things that you are able to fix and which can be shared with everyone. Sure, the funny errors are the most obvious and most easily fixed. The problematic ones are more subtle, remain unnoticed, and more readily spread misunderstanding. Ec On Wed,

Re: [Foundation-l] Google Translate now assists with humantranslations of Wikipedia articles

2009-06-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
who seek help want to substitute that help for any exercise of their own little grey cells. I have no problem with using a machine translation as a starting point because these translations are uncopyrightable beyond pre-existing copyrights. Ec On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Ray Saintonge

Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?

2009-06-20 Thread Ray Saintonge
Milos Rancic wrote: I've got the first report. There are no information that something happened to any Wikimedian. Take a look at [1]. I don't expect bigger scale problems in Iran, but not just because of that analysis. Except theocratic structures, preset situation in Iran reminds me a lot

Re: [Foundation-l] Info/Law blog: Using Wikisource as an Alternative Open Access Repository for Legal Scholarship

2009-06-20 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: Wow, what's Wikipedia's policy about using a bot to scrape everything? I don't know about any policy, but I think it should still be discouraged. For me this has less to do with predation on other sites than with our inability to keep up with the volume of data that would

Re: [Foundation-l] Info/Law blog: Using Wikisource as an Alternative Open Access Repository for Legal Scholarship

2009-06-20 Thread Ray Saintonge
Google have any greater effect on server load than downloading a whole book of similar length from Internet Archive? Ec From: Ray Saintonge Brian wrote: That is against the law. It violates Google's ToS. I'm mostly complaining that Google is being Very

Re: [Foundation-l] Info/Law blog: Using Wikisource as an Alternative Open Access Repository for Legal Scholarship

2009-06-20 Thread Ray Saintonge
would not reasonably expect a greater accumulation rate from Google. Ec _ From: Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net Geoffrey Plourde wrote: If a bot has a meaningful effect on server load (i.e. page requests), it falls under the category of malicious software

Re: [Foundation-l] Info/Law blog: Using Wikisource as an Alternative Open Access Repository for Legal Scholarship

2009-06-20 Thread Ray Saintonge
Stephen Bain wrote: On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Parker Higginsparkerhigg...@gmail.com wrote: Except google isn't asserting any kind of copyright control over these books, they're just not making it convenient to download them in your preferred format. Maybe not The Right Thing, but

Re: [Foundation-l] Info/Law blog: Using Wikisource as an Alternative Open Access Repository for Legal Scholarship

2009-06-21 Thread Ray Saintonge
Samuel Klein wrote: There is a wealth of work done all the time by primary source researchers and publishers, which could be improved on by having wikisource entries, translations, c. Related question : how appropriate would large numbers of public domain texts, with page scans and the best

Re: [Foundation-l] Iran?

2009-06-21 Thread Ray Saintonge
Robert Rohde wrote: On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote: While there may very well have been widespread fraud, that alone wouldn't be enough to explain away a 29 percentage point spread. A strong line of national security scare-mongering is always

Re: [Foundation-l] Info/Law blog: Using Wikisource as an Alternative Open Access Repository for Legal Scholarship

2009-06-21 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anthony wrote: On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:55 AM, Anthony wrote: Okay, http://www.archive.org/details/catholicencyclo16herbgoog happened to be the first book I randomly picked from Google Book Search. There's no text version. And the text version I find of other editions seems to be much

Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production

2009-06-28 Thread Ray Saintonge
Tisza Gergő wrote: Eddie Tejeda ed...@... writes: ithttp://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16349-psychologist-finds-wikipedians-grumpy-and-closedminded.html, Wikipedians are generally grumpy, disagreeable, and closed to new ideas.'

Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production

2009-06-29 Thread Ray Saintonge
Fred Bauder wrote: 'Forget altruism. Misanthropy and egotism are the fuel of online social production. That's the conclusion suggested by a new study of the character traits of the contributors to Wikipedia. A team of Israeli research psychologists gave personality tests to 69 Wikipedians and

Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production pt:wiki policies

2009-06-29 Thread Ray Saintonge
Steven Walling wrote: 1. You're wrong. Just today I myself received some kind words offlist, but related to a thread. Just because you're not getting the air of friendliness you desire (at this moment anyway), doesn't mean friendliness doesn't exist. Getting friendly words offlist, says

Re: [Foundation-l] antisocial production pt:wiki policies

2009-06-30 Thread Ray Saintonge
Virgilio A. P. Machado wrote: Marc, you comment is not very optimistic, but it was a great incentive to do what I announced above. Hopefully others will be more encouraged to voice their ideas about other matters, knowing they'll find a friendly hear and some useful and very welcome

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia article traffic statistics - copyright?

2009-06-30 Thread Ray Saintonge
K. Peachey wrote: They might not be, but with that San Francisco bus data issue [1] happening at the moment, everyone's checking everything these days to cover their asses. [1]. The Battle Over Who Owns Bus Arrival Times: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090628/1419595382.shtml So why

Re: [Foundation-l] [Fwd: A chapters-related question]

2009-07-06 Thread Ray Saintonge
Anders Wennersten wrote: I agree with you analysis, and that we need to come up with some definition of entities not being a chapter but in need of official recognition and having some rights being formally regulated . I would suggest we 1. come up with a name for these types of groups -

Re: [Foundation-l] Proposal for Wikimedia Weather

2009-07-08 Thread Ray Saintonge
Tris Thomas wrote: I'm interested in people's thoughts on a new Wikimedia project-maybe WikiWeather, which basically would do what it says on the tin. Along with importing national weather from other sources(especially to begin with), contributors could then put their weather where they

Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with native languages vs. the lingua franca

2009-07-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
David Gerard wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/world/asia/10iht-malay.html The Malaysian government has declared that science instruction will be conducted in Bahasa rather than English. Parents, teachers and professors are very unhappy because English is the language of science.

Re: [Foundation-l] The problem with native languages vs. the lingua franca

2009-07-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
Michael Snow wrote: Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/7/10 stevertigo stv...@gmail.com: If someone knows someone, putting eight billion dollars a year into English-language teaching in Africa, China, Australia and elsewhere would be a good place to start. You're going to have

Re: [Foundation-l] About that sue and be damned to the National Portrait Gallery ...

2009-07-10 Thread Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote: The UK Intellectual Property Office (http://www.ipo.gov.uk) says: ... That's the relevant bit of law. Is the intellectual input and investment of resources involved in taking such a photograph substantial? Anyone who's been around here for any amount of time is

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