Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[louisek]

...and the mantra is something like 
iloveframeihateframeiloveframeihateframeom. ;-) 

Louise 
(I actually really love Frame) 

- Original Message -

From: "Fred Ridder"  
To: "Alan Litchfield" , framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:20:05 PM 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to 
postscript for PDF production 

Back when Dov Isaacs was still active on the list, he used to call it 
Reinstallsheimer's Disease. He was never convinced that it did anything useful 
in at least 90% of the cases reported. But I suppose if you're in the right zen 
frame of mind it gives you some time to calm down while you watch the progress 
indicator move ever so slowly... 

-FR 

 
From: Framers  on 
behalf of Alan Litchfield  
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:31 PM 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to 
postscript for PDF production 



On 1/09/16 8:19 am, loui...@mchsi.com wrote: 



Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF made 
by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-) 


More the latter, if you are referring to anything newer than version 9. 



There was much discussion on the list some time ago about the relative 
merits of either approach. I have been strong advocate of the ps->pdf 
workflow but nowadays, I would promote the Save As... as providing a as 
good a quality output. 

Working on 2015 this week, I observed that Save As uses Distiller in any 
case, so by doing it manually only takes time and adds no other value. 
That was because the Adobe Acrobat license decided to screw itself up 
and I needed to reinstall Acrobat and all the other CC apps I use. 

huh, why do we need to reinstall this stuff all the time? 

Cheers 
Alan 

-- 
Dr Alan Litchfield 
AlphaByte 
PO Box 1941 
Auckland, New Zealand 1140 
___ 

This message is from the Framers mailing list 

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com 
FrameUsers.com - The Adobe FrameMaker Online Reference 
Site 
www.frameusers.com 
Adobe FrameMaker software is a template-based authoring and publishing solution 
for unstructured, structured, and XML/DITA content. There is a large and loyal 
... 


Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ 
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com 
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com 
___ 

This message is from the Framers mailing list 

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Visit the list's homepage at http://www.frameusers.com 
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/ 
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com 
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com 
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Alan Litchfield]

or provides more grist to the mill of angst. But I agree that generally, 
it solves nothing but provides a quick fix.


Alan

On 1/09/16 9:20 am, Fred Ridder wrote:

Back when Dov Isaacs was still active on the list, he used to call it
Reinstallsheimer's Disease. He was never convinced that it did anything
useful in at least 90% of the cases reported. But I suppose if you're in
the right zen frame of mind it gives you some time to calm down while
you watch the progress indicator move ever so slowly...


-FR


*From:* Framers
 on behalf of
Alan Litchfield 
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:31 PM
*To:* framers@lists.frameusers.com
*Subject:* Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed
to postscript for PDF production



On 1/09/16 8:19 am, loui...@mchsi.com wrote:


Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF made by 
"Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)



More the latter, if you are referring to anything newer than version 9.
There was much discussion on the list some time ago about the relative
merits of either approach. I have been strong advocate of the ps->pdf
workflow but nowadays, I would promote the Save As... as providing a as
good a quality output.

Working on 2015 this week, I observed that Save As uses Distiller in any
case, so by doing it manually only takes time and adds no other value.
That was because the Adobe Acrobat license decided to screw itself up
and I needed to reinstall Acrobat and all the other CC apps I use.

huh, why do we need to reinstall this stuff all the time?

Cheers
Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
FrameUsers.com - The Adobe FrameMaker Online Reference Site

www.frameusers.com
Adobe FrameMaker software is a template-based authoring and publishing
solution for unstructured, structured, and XML/DITA content. There is a
large and loyal ...


Archives located at
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com


--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[louisek]

Yes. It's somewhat akin to a change in the space-time continuum. 

- Original Message -
From: "Lin Sims" 
To: loui...@mchsi.com
Cc: "Rick Quatro" , "Framers List" 

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:05:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to 
postscript for PDF production

And the smoke we smell is a paradigm shifting?

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:43 PM,  wrote:

> Ah, well all right then. That creaking sound you hear is me changing my
> ways.
>
> Louise
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rick Quatro" 
> To: loui...@mchsi.com
> Cc: "Framers List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 3:37:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed
>  to  postscript for PDF production
>
> I always use Save As PDF. There were some older FrameMaker/Acrobat
> combinations where Adobe's Dov Isaacs recommended the Print PS/Distill
> approach, but that was a long time ago.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> 585-366-4017
> r...@frameexpert.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
> [mailto:framers-bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf
> Of loui...@mchsi.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:20 PM
> To: Tammy Van Boening
> Cc: Framers List
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
> postscript for PDF production
>
> Hi -
>
> I always distill a .ps file but had a client with cover art that would only
> print using Frame's "Save As PDF". I couldn't tell you why, but I don't
> really trust making a PDF this way, so I would extract just the cover page
> from the "Save As PDF" file, and replace the cover in a PDF I made by
> distilling a .ps.
>
> If this happened to you out of the blue, Robert's probably right and you'll
> have to uninstall and reinstall to fix it. The "Save As" might do for now
> though, if you're in a pinch.
>
> Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF
> made by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)
>
> Thanks for letting me glom onto your question Tammy!
>
> Louise
>
> Louise Kaufman
> loui...@mchsi.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tammy Van Boening" 
> To: "Framers List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:07:41 PM
> Subject: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
> postscript for PDF production
>
> HI All,
>
> I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
> a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
> bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
> the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print
> the
> entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
> then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
> option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
> stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
> and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
> job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand
> why
> this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
> file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
> of the final  PDF production.
>
> Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
> recommend providing.
>
> TIA,
>
> TVB
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Fred Ridder]

Back when Dov Isaacs was still active on the list, he used to call it 
Reinstallsheimer's Disease. He was never convinced that it did anything useful 
in at least 90% of the cases reported. But I suppose if you're in the right zen 
frame of mind it gives you some time to calm down while you watch the progress 
indicator move ever so slowly...

-FR


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Alan Litchfield 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:31 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to 
postscript for PDF production



On 1/09/16 8:19 am, loui...@mchsi.com wrote:

> Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF made 
> by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)
>

More the latter, if you are referring to anything newer than version 9.
There was much discussion on the list some time ago about the relative
merits of either approach. I have been strong advocate of the ps->pdf
workflow but nowadays, I would promote the Save As... as providing a as
good a quality output.

Working on 2015 this week, I observed that Save As uses Distiller in any
case, so by doing it manually only takes time and adds no other value.
That was because the Adobe Acrobat license decided to screw itself up
and I needed to reinstall Acrobat and all the other CC apps I use.

huh, why do we need to reinstall this stuff all the time?

Cheers
Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
FrameUsers.com - The Adobe FrameMaker Online Reference 
Site
www.frameusers.com
Adobe FrameMaker software is a template-based authoring and publishing solution 
for unstructured, structured, and XML/DITA content. There is a large and loyal 
...


Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Fred Ridder]

Or printing directly to PDF using the Adobe PDF virtual printer, which is the 
method I've used for more than a decade.


-FR


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Alan Litchfield 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:09 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to 
postscript for PDF production

I think I would try redistilling the pdf using your current diver. So,
printing it to ps -> pdf or directly to pdf. Then reimport it and try again.

I can't remember what version of FM you are running, but the newer
versions have pretty good save to pdf functions now. What happens if you
save directly to pdf?

Good luck
Alan

On 1/09/16 7:07 am, Tammy Van Boening wrote:
> HI All,
>
> I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
> a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
> bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
> the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print the
> entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
> then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
> option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
> stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
> and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
> job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why
> this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
> file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
> of the final  PDF production.
>
> Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
> recommend providing.
>
> TIA,
>
> TVB
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
[http://spectrumwritingllc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/linkedinlogo-sm.jpg]

Spectrum Writing - Spectrum Writing's Blog
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
Spectrum Writing offers technical writing and training consulting services for 
a diverse range of industries, with an emphasis in: Software for the life and 
physical sciences/biotechnology industries White papers for scientific 
products, services, and reagents/consumables We specialize in developing 
technical and training documentation and other deliverables that address the 
full spectrum of the product development life cycle, including: ...


> TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Lin Sims]

And the smoke we smell is a paradigm shifting?

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:43 PM,  wrote:

> Ah, well all right then. That creaking sound you hear is me changing my
> ways.
>
> Louise
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rick Quatro" 
> To: loui...@mchsi.com
> Cc: "Framers List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 3:37:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed
>  to  postscript for PDF production
>
> I always use Save As PDF. There were some older FrameMaker/Acrobat
> combinations where Adobe's Dov Isaacs recommended the Print PS/Distill
> approach, but that was a long time ago.
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> 585-366-4017
> r...@frameexpert.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
> [mailto:framers-bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com] On
> Behalf
> Of loui...@mchsi.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:20 PM
> To: Tammy Van Boening
> Cc: Framers List
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
> postscript for PDF production
>
> Hi -
>
> I always distill a .ps file but had a client with cover art that would only
> print using Frame's "Save As PDF". I couldn't tell you why, but I don't
> really trust making a PDF this way, so I would extract just the cover page
> from the "Save As PDF" file, and replace the cover in a PDF I made by
> distilling a .ps.
>
> If this happened to you out of the blue, Robert's probably right and you'll
> have to uninstall and reinstall to fix it. The "Save As" might do for now
> though, if you're in a pinch.
>
> Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF
> made by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)
>
> Thanks for letting me glom onto your question Tammy!
>
> Louise
>
> Louise Kaufman
> loui...@mchsi.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tammy Van Boening" 
> To: "Framers List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:07:41 PM
> Subject: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
> postscript for PDF production
>
> HI All,
>
> I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
> a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
> bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
> the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print
> the
> entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
> then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
> option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
> stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
> and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
> job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand
> why
> this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
> file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
> of the final  PDF production.
>
> Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
> recommend providing.
>
> TIA,
>
> TVB
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Owner/Principal
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/
> framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at http://lists.frameusers.com/
> listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>



-- 
Lin Sims
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Rick Quatro]

I always use Save As PDF. There were some older FrameMaker/Acrobat
combinations where Adobe's Dov Isaacs recommended the Print PS/Distill
approach, but that was a long time ago.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com



-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
Of loui...@mchsi.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:20 PM
To: Tammy Van Boening
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
postscript for PDF production

Hi -

I always distill a .ps file but had a client with cover art that would only
print using Frame's "Save As PDF". I couldn't tell you why, but I don't
really trust making a PDF this way, so I would extract just the cover page
from the "Save As PDF" file, and replace the cover in a PDF I made by
distilling a .ps. 

If this happened to you out of the blue, Robert's probably right and you'll
have to uninstall and reinstall to fix it. The "Save As" might do for now
though, if you're in a pinch. 

Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF
made by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)

Thanks for letting me glom onto your question Tammy!

Louise

Louise Kaufman 
loui...@mchsi.com 


- Original Message -
From: "Tammy Van Boening" 
To: "Framers List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:07:41 PM
Subject: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
postscript for PDF production

HI All,

I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print the
entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why
this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
of the final  PDF production.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
recommend providing.

TIA,

TVB


Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[louisek]

Ah, well all right then. That creaking sound you hear is me changing my ways.

Louise


- Original Message -
From: "Rick Quatro" 
To: loui...@mchsi.com
Cc: "Framers List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 3:37:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed   to  
postscript for PDF production

I always use Save As PDF. There were some older FrameMaker/Acrobat
combinations where Adobe's Dov Isaacs recommended the Print PS/Distill
approach, but that was a long time ago.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com



-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+rick=rickquatro@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf
Of loui...@mchsi.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 4:20 PM
To: Tammy Van Boening
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
postscript for PDF production

Hi -

I always distill a .ps file but had a client with cover art that would only
print using Frame's "Save As PDF". I couldn't tell you why, but I don't
really trust making a PDF this way, so I would extract just the cover page
from the "Save As PDF" file, and replace the cover in a PDF I made by
distilling a .ps. 

If this happened to you out of the blue, Robert's probably right and you'll
have to uninstall and reinstall to fix it. The "Save As" might do for now
though, if you're in a pinch. 

Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF
made by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)

Thanks for letting me glom onto your question Tammy!

Louise

Louise Kaufman 
loui...@mchsi.com 


- Original Message -
From: "Tammy Van Boening" 
To: "Framers List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:07:41 PM
Subject: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
postscript for PDF production

HI All,

I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print the
entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why
this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
of the final  PDF production.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
recommend providing.

TIA,

TVB


Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[louisek]

Thanks Alan (I think). lol
Louise

- Original Message -
From: "Alan Litchfield" 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 3:31:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to 
postscript for PDF production



On 1/09/16 8:19 am, loui...@mchsi.com wrote:

> Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF made 
> by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)
>

More the latter, if you are referring to anything newer than version 9. 
There was much discussion on the list some time ago about the relative 
merits of either approach. I have been strong advocate of the ps->pdf 
workflow but nowadays, I would promote the Save As... as providing a as 
good a quality output.

Working on 2015 this week, I observed that Save As uses Distiller in any 
case, so by doing it manually only takes time and adds no other value. 
That was because the Adobe Acrobat license decided to screw itself up 
and I needed to reinstall Acrobat and all the other CC apps I use.

huh, why do we need to reinstall this stuff all the time?

Cheers
Alan

-- 
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Alan Litchfield]

On 1/09/16 8:19 am, loui...@mchsi.com wrote:


Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF made by 
"Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)



More the latter, if you are referring to anything newer than version 9. 
There was much discussion on the list some time ago about the relative 
merits of either approach. I have been strong advocate of the ps->pdf 
workflow but nowadays, I would promote the Save As... as providing a as 
good a quality output.


Working on 2015 this week, I observed that Save As uses Distiller in any 
case, so by doing it manually only takes time and adds no other value. 
That was because the Adobe Acrobat license decided to screw itself up 
and I needed to reinstall Acrobat and all the other CC apps I use.


huh, why do we need to reinstall this stuff all the time?

Cheers
Alan

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Tammy Van Boening]

LOL. NP.

Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


-Original Message-
From: loui...@mchsi.com [mailto:loui...@mchsi.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:20 PM
To: Tammy Van Boening
Cc: Framers List
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to 
postscript for PDF production

Hi -

I always distill a .ps file but had a client with cover art that would only 
print using Frame's "Save As PDF". I couldn't tell you why, but I don't really 
trust making a PDF this way, so I would extract just the cover page from the 
"Save As PDF" file, and replace the cover in a PDF I made by distilling a .ps. 

If this happened to you out of the blue, Robert's probably right and you'll 
have to uninstall and reinstall to fix it. The "Save As" might do for now 
though, if you're in a pinch. 

Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF made 
by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)

Thanks for letting me glom onto your question Tammy!

Louise

Louise Kaufman 
loui...@mchsi.com 


- Original Message -
From: "Tammy Van Boening" 
To: "Framers List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:07:41 PM
Subject: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
postscript for PDF production

HI All,

I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print the
entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why
this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
of the final  PDF production.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
recommend providing.

TIA,

TVB


Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[louisek]

Hi -

I always distill a .ps file but had a client with cover art that would only 
print using Frame's "Save As PDF". I couldn't tell you why, but I don't really 
trust making a PDF this way, so I would extract just the cover page from the 
"Save As PDF" file, and replace the cover in a PDF I made by distilling a .ps. 

If this happened to you out of the blue, Robert's probably right and you'll 
have to uninstall and reinstall to fix it. The "Save As" might do for now 
though, if you're in a pinch. 

Can I tack on a related question? Am I right in not fully trusting a PDF made 
by "Save As"? Or do I just have deep-seated psychological issues? ;-)

Thanks for letting me glom onto your question Tammy!

Louise

Louise Kaufman 
loui...@mchsi.com 


- Original Message -
From: "Tammy Van Boening" 
To: "Framers List" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 2:07:41 PM
Subject: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
postscript for PDF production

HI All,

I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print the
entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why
this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
of the final  PDF production.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
recommend providing.

TIA,

TVB


Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Alan Litchfield]

I think I would try redistilling the pdf using your current diver. So, 
printing it to ps -> pdf or directly to pdf. Then reimport it and try again.


I can't remember what version of FM you are running, but the newer 
versions have pretty good save to pdf functions now. What happens if you 
save directly to pdf?


Good luck
Alan

On 1/09/16 7:07 am, Tammy Van Boening wrote:

HI All,

I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print the
entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why
this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
of the final  PDF production.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
recommend providing.

TIA,

TVB


Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com



--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Robert Lauriston]

I had that happen to me on Windows, maybe more than once. I think I
had to reinstall both Acrobat and FrameMaker. Maybe I had to uninstall
both first. I'm not sure since I had to reinstall so many times to
recover from various bugs.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Steve Rickaby
 wrote:
>
> ... I used to use an Adobe printer driver on Mac that worked just fine for 
> years and years and years, generating good .ps files for dozens of books, and 
> then one day just didn't, and never did again, for no apparent reason. ...
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Steve Rickaby]

At 13:07 -0600 31/8/16, Tammy Van Boening wrote:

>Of course, removing the Front cover file resolves the issue, but that isn't an 
>option . .. this has to be part of the final  PDF production.

Yeah, good stuff goes bad for no reason. That's part of the fun of computers.

If you separate out the first page/page pair, can you distill that into a PDF? 
If so, a workaround might be to do that and then stitch onto the rest of the 
PDF with Acrobat. If you have the full Acrobat, of course.

Aside from that, I'm not up to speed with recent version of 
FrameMaker/FrameMaker on Windows, I'm mostly familiar with the same process 
with the old Mac versions of FrameMaker, so I can't guess what might have gone 
wrong. When you say that nothing has changed, are you sure? Has the version of 
FrameMaker you are using changed? If you remove the graphic from the cover, 
does the rest of it distill? Do you know at what stage the hang is happening? 
Does it distill if you temporarily substitute another graphic? If you build a 
new one/two page FrameMaker doc with the graphic, will that distill? This sort 
of thing might give you some clues as to where the problem is.

Back in the day I used to use an Adobe printer driver on Mac that worked just 
fine for years and years and years, generating good .ps files for dozens of 
books, and then one day just didn't, and never did again, for no apparent 
reason. Shit happens - especially when there are deadlines.

-- 
Steve
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Tammy Van Boening]

yes, it is the Adobe PDF printer.

Thanks!



Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com

-Original Message-
From: Framers
[mailto:framers-bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 1:23 PM
To: Framers List
Subject: Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to
postscript for PDF production

Did you check the selected printer is Adobe PDF (or a real PostScript
printer) rather than some other printer?

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tammy Van Boening <
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

> HI All,
>
> I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series 
> having a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a 
> PDF with bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the 
> first page of the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have 
> been able to print the entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, 
> to a  postscript file, and then distill this file to produce a PDF 
> using just the Standard print job option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. 
> . . when the print job starts, it gets stuck on the FrontCover.fm file 
> and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins and I eventually have to 
> kill the process. As I am using the Standard print job, I haven't 
> changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why this has 
> happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover file 
> resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part 
> of the final  PDF production.
>
> Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you 
> could recommend providing.
>
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

Re: [Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Robert Lauriston]

Did you check the selected printer is Adobe PDF (or a real PostScript
printer) rather than some other printer?

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Tammy Van Boening <
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

> HI All,
>
> I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
> a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
> bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
> the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print
> the
> entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
> then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
> option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
> stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
> and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
> job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand
> why
> this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
> file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
> of the final  PDF production.
>
> Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
> recommend providing.
>
___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com

[Framers] Longtime Frame File suddenly cannot be printed to postscript for PDF production

[Tammy Van Boening]

HI All,

I have a series of 4 manuals for a longtime client, with each series having
a unique graphic for the FrontCover.fm file. The graphic is a PDF with
bleeding edges that is imported into an anchored frame on the first page of
the two page file. For like a gazillion years, I have been able to print the
entire book, including the FrontCover.fm file, to a  postscript file, and
then distill this file to produce a PDF using just the Standard print job
option. Now, all of a sudden - blam. . . when the print job starts, it gets
stuck on the FrontCover.fm file and goes nowhere. It just spins and spins
and I eventually have to kill the process. As I am using the Standard print
job, I haven't changed a single setting and I am at a loss to understand why
this has happened/what has happened. Of course, removing the Front cover
file resolves the issue, but that isn't an option . .. this has to be part
of the final  PDF production.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated, including any settings that you could
recommend providing.

TIA,

TVB


Tammy Van Boening
Owner/Principal
Spectrum Writing, LLC
www.spectrumwritingllc.com
TammyVB  *AT*  spectrumwritingllc  *DOT*  com


___

This message is from the Framers mailing list

Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
Archives located at http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
Subscribe and unsubscribe at 
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com