Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Robert Lauriston]

"Among those interviewed were [Merle Haggard's] two ex-wives, Kris
Kristofferson and Robert Duvall."

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/HaggardComma.jpg
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Stephen Rickaby]

At 12:57 +0100 8/1/19, Johan Anglemark wrote:

>Could we please take the religious discussions elsewhere than this list?

Apologies - you're right, it's not the right forum for this sort of thing.

-- 
Steve Rickaby BSc MBCS CITP MISTC  
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Doug]

I concur with Michael, in that the serial comma it is sometimes necessary
but regardless, it is never harmful.  I use the serial comma by default,
unless the 'and' is part of a singular grouping such as "Bath and Wells" or
"Marks and Spencer", or some such.

Doug

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 4:47 AM Michael Lewis 
wrote:

> Ah. But it is necessary *sometimes*. The basis of the Oxford style is that
> including it is sometimes necessary but never harmful. Its consistent
> omission is often predicated on the quite false assumption that it does the
> same job as "and" so need never be used alongside it. But "and" is purely
> conjunctive whereas the comma can also be disjunctive.
> - Michael Lewis
>
>
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Jeff Coatsworth]

Sounds like a Watercooler channel discussion on the Write the Docs Slack 
channel ;>)



From: Framers 
 on behalf 
of Johan Anglemark 
Sent: January 8, 2019 6:57 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

Could we please take the religious discussions elsewhere than this list?

-j

On 2019-01-08 12:55, Tom Beiswenger wrote:
> It's more than "Oxford style." The use of a serial comma is covered in the 
> Chicago Manual of Style. Per entry 5.50: "In a series consisting of three or 
> more elements, the elements are separated by commas. When a conjunction joins 
> the last two elements in a series, a comma is used before the conjunction." 
> The British "The Economist Style Guide" specifically directs writers to NOT 
> use a serial comma.
>
> I have followed the serial comma rule since I went from being a newspaper 
> journalist to being a technical writer nearly 30 years ago. My personal 
> opinion is that the serial comma can be optional, but whether it is used or 
> no used must be consistent throughout any document or book. We have been 
> using it for more than 30 years. I see no need to change.
>
>
> Tom Beiswenger
> Project Manager, Manager IB Technical Documentation
>
> Emhart Glass Inc.
> 74 Kahler Road North • Horseheads NY 14845 • USA
> Telephone 1 607 735 2551 • Mobile +1 607 769 4779
> Fax +1 607 735 2601
> tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
> www.bucheremhartglass.com<http://www.bucheremhartglass.com>
> www.bucherindustries.com<http://www.bucherindustries.com>
> Privacy Policy: 
> www.bucheremhartglass.com/privacy<http://www.bucheremhartglass.com/privacy>
>
> -"Framers" 
>  wrote: 
> -
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 
> 
> From: Stephen Rickaby
> Sent by: "Framers"
> Date: 01/08/2019 05:10AM
> Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question
>
> At 09:33 + 8/1/19, shuttie27 wrote:
>
>> Two points:The "Oxford style" is to include the comma, not to omit it. It 
>> was so named because the Oxford University Press, almost alone among British 
>> publishers, mandated it in their style guide. Secondly, as for its being 
>> essential to avoid ambiguity, tell that to all the other British and other 
>> publishers who don't use it, and generations of British and other writers 
>> who have never used it.
>
> You are correct; I miswrote. 'Oxford Guide to Style', R M Ritter (an American 
> gentleman, by the way), OUP 2002, pp 121-122. This cites many instances where 
> the serial comma is necessary to avoid ambiguity, but admits that omitting it 
> is often done in US and UK English, but then goes on to suggest that you 
> might as well bung it in anyway.
>
> However, following the publication of this book there was a good deal of 
> spirited debate on the topic. As far as I remember (and I communicated with 
> Mr Ritter at the time but have mislaid the emails), the consensus, based on 
> several existing styles guides, was that 'UK style' was to omit the serial 
> comma unless by so doing ambiguity was introduced, while US style was always 
> to include it.
>
> Here for example is the relevant part of the British Psycholoigcal Society's 
> style guide:
>
> [Commas are...] Not required before 'and' in a list of items, unless to avoid 
> an ambiguity or to clarify where one item ends and another begins 
> (particularly where the items are lengthy). Examples:
>
> * ..in the professional work of clinical, forensic and educational 
> psychologists.
>
> * The Bishops of Winchester, and Bath and Wells [two bishops, not three]
>
> Or this from the Thomson Learning style guide:
>
> * Do not impose serial commas in lists of three or more items except to avoid 
> ambiguity.
>
> Or from The Economist style guide:
>
> * Lists: with lists do not put a comma before 'and' at the end of a sequence 
> of items unless one of the items includes another 'and'.
>
> Thus:
>
> 'The doctor suggested an aspirin, half a grapefruit and a cup of broth. But 
> he ordered scrambled eggs, whisky and soda, and a selection from the trolley.'
>


--
Johan Anglemark

Tel: 0708-65 10 88
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Johan Anglemark]

Could we please take the religious discussions elsewhere than this list?

-j

On 2019-01-08 12:55, Tom Beiswenger wrote:

It's more than "Oxford style." The use of a serial comma is covered in the Chicago Manual of Style. 
Per entry 5.50: "In a series consisting of three or more elements, the elements are separated by commas. 
When a conjunction joins the last two elements in a series, a comma is used before the conjunction." The 
British "The Economist Style Guide" specifically directs writers to NOT use a serial comma.

I have followed the serial comma rule since I went from being a newspaper 
journalist to being a technical writer nearly 30 years ago. My personal opinion 
is that the serial comma can be optional, but whether it is used or no used 
must be consistent throughout any document or book. We have been using it for 
more than 30 years. I see no need to change.


Tom Beiswenger
Project Manager, Manager IB Technical Documentation

Emhart Glass Inc.
74 Kahler Road North • Horseheads NY 14845 • USA
Telephone 1 607 735 2551 • Mobile +1 607 769 4779
Fax +1 607 735 2601
tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
www.bucheremhartglass.com
www.bucherindustries.com
Privacy Policy: www.bucheremhartglass.com/privacy

-"Framers" 
 wrote: -
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

From: Stephen Rickaby
Sent by: "Framers"
Date: 01/08/2019 05:10AM
Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

At 09:33 + 8/1/19, shuttie27 wrote:


Two points:The "Oxford style" is to include the comma, not to omit it. It was 
so named because the Oxford University Press, almost alone among British publishers, 
mandated it in their style guide. Secondly, as for its being essential to avoid 
ambiguity, tell that to all the other British and other publishers who don't use it, and 
generations of British and other writers who have never used it.


You are correct; I miswrote. 'Oxford Guide to Style', R M Ritter (an American 
gentleman, by the way), OUP 2002, pp 121-122. This cites many instances where 
the serial comma is necessary to avoid ambiguity, but admits that omitting it 
is often done in US and UK English, but then goes on to suggest that you might 
as well bung it in anyway.

However, following the publication of this book there was a good deal of 
spirited debate on the topic. As far as I remember (and I communicated with Mr 
Ritter at the time but have mislaid the emails), the consensus, based on 
several existing styles guides, was that 'UK style' was to omit the serial 
comma unless by so doing ambiguity was introduced, while US style was always to 
include it.

Here for example is the relevant part of the British Psycholoigcal Society's 
style guide:

[Commas are...] Not required before 'and' in a list of items, unless to avoid 
an ambiguity or to clarify where one item ends and another begins (particularly 
where the items are lengthy). Examples:

* ..in the professional work of clinical, forensic and educational 
psychologists.

* The Bishops of Winchester, and Bath and Wells [two bishops, not three]

Or this from the Thomson Learning style guide:

* Do not impose serial commas in lists of three or more items except to avoid 
ambiguity.

Or from The Economist style guide:

* Lists: with lists do not put a comma before 'and' at the end of a sequence of 
items unless one of the items includes another 'and'.

Thus:

'The doctor suggested an aspirin, half a grapefruit and a cup of broth. But he 
ordered scrambled eggs, whisky and soda, and a selection from the trolley.'




--
Johan Anglemark

Tel: 0708-65 10 88
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Tom Beiswenger]

It's more than "Oxford style." The use of a serial comma is covered in the 
Chicago Manual of Style. Per entry 5.50: "In a series consisting of three or 
more elements, the elements are separated by commas. When a conjunction joins 
the last two elements in a series, a comma is used before the conjunction." The 
British "The Economist Style Guide" specifically directs writers to NOT use a 
serial comma.

I have followed the serial comma rule since I went from being a newspaper 
journalist to being a technical writer nearly 30 years ago. My personal opinion 
is that the serial comma can be optional, but whether it is used or no used 
must be consistent throughout any document or book. We have been using it for 
more than 30 years. I see no need to change.


Tom Beiswenger
Project Manager, Manager IB Technical Documentation

Emhart Glass Inc. 
74 Kahler Road North • Horseheads NY 14845 • USA
Telephone 1 607 735 2551 • Mobile +1 607 769 4779
Fax +1 607 735 2601
tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
www.bucheremhartglass.com
www.bucherindustries.com
Privacy Policy: www.bucheremhartglass.com/privacy

-"Framers" 
 wrote: 
-
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

From: Stephen Rickaby 
Sent by: "Framers" 
Date: 01/08/2019 05:10AM
Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

At 09:33 + 8/1/19, shuttie27 wrote:

>Two points:The "Oxford style" is to include the comma, not to omit it. It was 
>so named because the Oxford University Press, almost alone among British 
>publishers, mandated it in their style guide. Secondly, as for its being 
>essential to avoid ambiguity, tell that to all the other British and other 
>publishers who don't use it, and generations of British and other writers who 
>have never used it.

You are correct; I miswrote. 'Oxford Guide to Style', R M Ritter (an American 
gentleman, by the way), OUP 2002, pp 121-122. This cites many instances where 
the serial comma is necessary to avoid ambiguity, but admits that omitting it 
is often done in US and UK English, but then goes on to suggest that you might 
as well bung it in anyway.

However, following the publication of this book there was a good deal of 
spirited debate on the topic. As far as I remember (and I communicated with Mr 
Ritter at the time but have mislaid the emails), the consensus, based on 
several existing styles guides, was that 'UK style' was to omit the serial 
comma unless by so doing ambiguity was introduced, while US style was always to 
include it.

Here for example is the relevant part of the British Psycholoigcal Society's 
style guide:

[Commas are...] Not required before 'and' in a list of items, unless to avoid 
an ambiguity or to clarify where one item ends and another begins (particularly 
where the items are lengthy). Examples:

* ..in the professional work of clinical, forensic and educational 
psychologists.

* The Bishops of Winchester, and Bath and Wells [two bishops, not three]

Or this from the Thomson Learning style guide:

* Do not impose serial commas in lists of three or more items except to avoid 
ambiguity.

Or from The Economist style guide:

* Lists: with lists do not put a comma before 'and' at the end of a sequence of 
items unless one of the items includes another 'and'.

Thus:

'The doctor suggested an aspirin, half a grapefruit and a cup of broth. But he 
ordered scrambled eggs, whisky and soda, and a selection from the trolley.'

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Stephen Rickaby]

At 09:33 + 8/1/19, shuttie27 wrote:

>Two points:The "Oxford style" is to include the comma, not to omit it. It was 
>so named because the Oxford University Press, almost alone among British 
>publishers, mandated it in their style guide. Secondly, as for its being 
>essential to avoid ambiguity, tell that to all the other British and other 
>publishers who don't use it, and generations of British and other writers who 
>have never used it.

You are correct; I miswrote. 'Oxford Guide to Style', R M Ritter (an American 
gentleman, by the way), OUP 2002, pp 121-122. This cites many instances where 
the serial comma is necessary to avoid ambiguity, but admits that omitting it 
is often done in US and UK English, but then goes on to suggest that you might 
as well bung it in anyway.

However, following the publication of this book there was a good deal of 
spirited debate on the topic. As far as I remember (and I communicated with Mr 
Ritter at the time but have mislaid the emails), the consensus, based on 
several existing styles guides, was that 'UK style' was to omit the serial 
comma unless by so doing ambiguity was introduced, while US style was always to 
include it.

Here for example is the relevant part of the British Psycholoigcal Society's 
style guide:

[Commas are...] Not required before 'and' in a list of items, unless to avoid 
an ambiguity or to clarify where one item ends and another begins (particularly 
where the items are lengthy). Examples:

* ..in the professional work of clinical, forensic and educational 
psychologists.

* The Bishops of Winchester, and Bath and Wells [two bishops, not three]

Or this from the Thomson Learning style guide:

* Do not impose serial commas in lists of three or more items except to avoid 
ambiguity.

Or from The Economist style guide:

* Lists: with lists do not put a comma before 'and' at the end of a sequence of 
items unless one of the items includes another 'and'.

Thus:

'The doctor suggested an aspirin, half a grapefruit and a cup of broth. But he 
ordered scrambled eggs, whisky and soda, and a selection from the trolley.'

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Michael Lewis]

Ah. But it is necessary *sometimes*. The basis of the Oxford style is that 
including it is sometimes necessary but never harmful. Its consistent omission 
is often predicated on the quite false assumption that it does the same job as 
"and" so need never be used alongside it. But "and" is purely conjunctive 
whereas the comma can also be disjunctive.
- Michael Lewis 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: 
shuttie27  Date: 08/01/2019  20:33  (GMT+10:00) To: "An 
email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." 
 Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question 
Two points:The "Oxford style" is to include the comma, not to omit it. It was 
so named because the Oxford University Press, almost alone among British 
publishers, mandated it in their style guide.Secondly, as for its being 
essential to avoid ambiguity, tell that to all the other British and other 
publishers who don't use it, and generations of British and other writers who 
have never used it.
Roger


Sent from my tablet.
 Original message From: Stephen Rickaby 
 Date: 08/01/2019  08:49  (GMT+00:00) To: "An 
email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." 
 Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question 
At 20:45 -0500 7/1/19, Doug wrote:

>I've always thought two of a tech writer's top values are accuracy, and
>avoidance of ambiguity.  The Oxford (or serial) comma is essential for both
>of these.

I should have been clearer and a bit less grumpy ;-) I follow the Oxford style, 
which is to omit the comma unless ambiguity is caused by doing so.

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[shuttie27]

Two points:The "Oxford style" is to include the comma, not to omit it. It was 
so named because the Oxford University Press, almost alone among British 
publishers, mandated it in their style guide.Secondly, as for its being 
essential to avoid ambiguity, tell that to all the other British and other 
publishers who don't use it, and generations of British and other writers who 
have never used it.
Roger


Sent from my tablet.
 Original message From: Stephen Rickaby 
 Date: 08/01/2019  08:49  (GMT+00:00) To: "An 
email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software." 
 Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question 
At 20:45 -0500 7/1/19, Doug wrote:

>I've always thought two of a tech writer's top values are accuracy, and
>avoidance of ambiguity.  The Oxford (or serial) comma is essential for both
>of these.

I should have been clearer and a bit less grumpy ;-) I follow the Oxford style, 
which is to omit the comma unless ambiguity is caused by doing so.

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Stephen Rickaby]

At 20:45 -0500 7/1/19, Doug wrote:

>I've always thought two of a tech writer's top values are accuracy, and
>avoidance of ambiguity.  The Oxford (or serial) comma is essential for both
>of these.

I should have been clearer and a bit less grumpy ;-) I follow the Oxford style, 
which is to omit the comma unless ambiguity is caused by doing so.

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Stephen Rickaby]

At 19:18 -0700 7/1/19,  wrote:

>I knew I would get a flurry of answers from the list, so thanks. I have what
>I need to make some substantiated edits.

Clearly I don't know the context of the surrounding text, but I think I'd favor 
some sort of list structure that introduces the information, then lists the 
tabs and gives brief details of the information displayed under each tab. 
Without more information I can't tell whether this would be appropriate, but if 
it is it would concentrate as much information in as small a space while being 
as unambiguous as possible.

Say...

'The tabs display the data as follows:

* Overview - (list of stuff under this tab)

* Category - (list of stuff under this tab)

* Locus - (list of stuff under this tab)

* Sequence - (list of stuff under this tab)

* Details - (list of stuff under this tab)'

But this might not be appropriate to the styles of your document.

Good luck, anyway - this is the sort of thing that makes editing enjoyable.

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[tammyvb]

I knew I would get a flurry of answers from the list, so thanks. I have what
I need to make some substantiated edits.

Much appreciated.

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com



-Original Message-
From: Framers
 On
Behalf Of Doug
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 6:46 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

>
>
> If you must have the 'and' I would removed the Oxford comma as I hate 
> them, but this is a matter of local style.
>
>
I've always thought two of a tech writer's top values are accuracy, and
avoidance of ambiguity.  The Oxford (or serial) comma is essential for both
of these.
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Doug]

>
>
> If you must have the 'and' I would removed the Oxford comma as I hate
> them, but this is a matter of local style.
>
>
I've always thought two of a tech writer's top values are accuracy, and
avoidance of ambiguity.  The Oxford (or serial) comma is essential for both
of these.
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[Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Karen Robbins]

Hi Tammy,

The information* is displayed across five tabs. From left to
right, they are Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

* labels? titles? topics? (+ "are")

My 2¢.

Karen Robbins
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Mike Wickham]

For comma placement, I'd pick #1, which matches the _Chicago Manual of 
Style_, but I'd also suggest tightening the sentence and removing 
passive voice. Result:


"The information displays across five tabs: Overview, Category, Locus, 
Sequence, and Details."


I would note that the Chicago style is typically used by book 
publishers, while AP style is used for newspapers. The latter omits 
certain commas and words to make them fit better into short stories in 
narrow columns. In any case, sometimes minor rewrites eliminate fights 
over punctuation.


Mike Wickham

On 1/7/2019 12:34 PM, tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com wrote:

Consider the following three sentences:

  


1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

  


Three different editors. Three different copy edits. I have my 'druthers,
but I thought I would reach out to all the writers on this list and get a
majority opinion. And yes, I am saying opinion, because I know that there is
an absolute right and wrong, but I need to be neutral and non-judgmental
when supplying my feedback and making the correction. Three egos are
involved. . . .

  


TVB

  


Tammy Van Boening

Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

  


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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Lin Sims]

How about this?

The  information is organized into five tabs. From left to right, they
are Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.


On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 1:48 PM  wrote:

> You would think so, but in another part of the manual, there is a plot that
> distinctly shows a legend, and instead of only referring to the legend (as
> in see legend for plot details), I was required to literally explain the
> legend verbatim, as in Forward is highlighted in blue, Reverse is
> highlighted in red, non-directional is highlighted in black, etc.
>
> I am too old for this head-banging - I will pick my battles. . .
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
>  On
> Behalf Of John Sgammato
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 11:45 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question
>
> I would just say:
> The information is displayed across five tabs: Overview, Category, Locus,
> Sequence, and Details.
>
> I would assume an English-language reader would assume left to right.
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 1:34 PM  wrote:
>
> > Consider the following three sentences:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
> > right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and
> Details.
> >
> > 2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> > right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and
> Details.
> >
> > 3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> > right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and
> Details.
> >
> >
> >
> > Three different editors. Three different copy edits. I have my
> > 'druthers, but I thought I would reach out to all the writers on this
> > list and get a majority opinion. And yes, I am saying opinion, because
> > I know that there is an absolute right and wrong, but I need to be
> > neutral and non-judgmental when supplying my feedback and making the
> > correction. Three egos are involved. . . .
> >
> >
> >
> > TVB
> >
> >
> >
> > Tammy Van Boening
> >
> > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> >
> > www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
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> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
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>
>
> --
>
> [image: logo]
> *John Sgammato* *Documentation Architect*  m 508.927.2083 |
> john.sgamm...@actifio.com | actifio.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/company-beta/399246/> <http://twitter.com/actifio
> >
> <http://www.youtube.com/c/Actifio_Official>
> <
> http://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Actifio-EI_IE625803.11,18.htm
> >
> *Access your enterprise data as a service, instantly anywhere.*
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-- 
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Stephen Rickaby]

...and 'is displayed' is passive voice, which is usually deprecated.
-- 
Steve 
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Stephen Rickaby]

As an afterthought, I'm not sure above 'is displayed across' either, but then I 
don't know your software. It doesn't convey much. Is the user supposed to hunt 
over the five tabs to find what they want?
-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Stephen Rickaby]

John and Tom, yes. Simplest is best, and the three options you list are all 
massively and unnecessarily verbose. Were I editing it I would deprecate all of 
them and the punctuation.

Who is the target audience? Do they have US or UK English as their first 
language? From what ethnic culture? These are all relevant questions: for 
example, a natural order of left to right cannot always be assumed.

To be really pedantic, the following in unnecessary in your options:

- 'The information' (huh?)

- 'five tabs' (not needed because you list them_

- 'left to right' (see above)

- 'the following' (implied by the colon)

- 'and' (whatever)

Removing these, it leaves us with: 'It/This is displayed across the tabs 
Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, Details'.

If you must have the 'and' I would removed the Oxford comma as I hate them, but 
this is a matter of local style.

Simplest is almost always best.

-- 
Steve [grouchy old pedant]
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Tom Beiswenger]

Tammy,

I would only modify John's version to the following:

The information is displayed across five tabs (left to right): Overview, 
Category, Locus,
Sequence, and Details.

In my earlier life as a newspaper editor (no, I'm not as ancient as some people 
think), placing left to right in parentheses, was essentially the AP style for 
photo captions. 


Tom Beiswenger
Project Manager, Manager IB Technical Documentation

Emhart Glass Inc. 
74 Kahler Road North • Horseheads NY 14845 • USA
Telephone 1 607 735 2551 • Mobile +1 607 769 4779
Fax +1 607 735 2601
tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
www.bucheremhartglass.com
www.bucherindustries.com
Privacy Policy: www.bucheremhartglass.com/privacy

-"Framers" 
 wrote: 
-
To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'" 

From: 
Sent by: "Framers" 
Date: 01/07/2019 01:48PM
Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

You would think so, but in another part of the manual, there is a plot that
distinctly shows a legend, and instead of only referring to the legend (as
in see legend for plot details), I was required to literally explain the
legend verbatim, as in Forward is highlighted in blue, Reverse is
highlighted in red, non-directional is highlighted in black, etc. 

I am too old for this head-banging - I will pick my battles. . . 

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spectrumwritingllc.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=zzmJd9V-AOY-pLCA-v8cPy_mRSvZCZwNZBdUabWmOfQ&m=cHU-aI3dwaJK3XC9gkBr5qN2Dhf9GxYToPKFBOD38Og&s=-E8UPSzd9alV1W5rcW86pt7oLWBJrTgRdIpjJFT103U&e=

-Original Message-
From: Framers
 On
Behalf Of John Sgammato
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 11:45 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

I would just say:
The information is displayed across five tabs: Overview, Category, Locus,
Sequence, and Details.

I would assume an English-language reader would assume left to right.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 1:34 PM  wrote:

> Consider the following three sentences:
>
>
>
> 1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
> right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and
Details.
>
> 2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and
Details.
>
> 3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.
>
>
>
> Three different editors. Three different copy edits. I have my 
> 'druthers, but I thought I would reach out to all the writers on this 
> list and get a majority opinion. And yes, I am saying opinion, because 
> I know that there is an absolute right and wrong, but I need to be 
> neutral and non-judgmental when supplying my feedback and making the 
> correction. Three egos are involved. . . .
>
>
>
> TVB
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spectrumwritingllc.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=zzmJd9V-AOY-pLCA-v8cPy_mRSvZCZwNZBdUabWmOfQ&m=cHU-aI3dwaJK3XC9gkBr5qN2Dhf9GxYToPKFBOD38Og&s=-E8UPSzd9alV1W5rcW86pt7oLWBJrTgRdIpjJFT103U&e=
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[tammyvb]

You would think so, but in another part of the manual, there is a plot that
distinctly shows a legend, and instead of only referring to the legend (as
in see legend for plot details), I was required to literally explain the
legend verbatim, as in Forward is highlighted in blue, Reverse is
highlighted in red, non-directional is highlighted in black, etc. 

I am too old for this head-banging - I will pick my battles. . . 

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

-Original Message-
From: Framers
 On
Behalf Of John Sgammato
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 11:45 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

I would just say:
The information is displayed across five tabs: Overview, Category, Locus,
Sequence, and Details.

I would assume an English-language reader would assume left to right.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 1:34 PM  wrote:

> Consider the following three sentences:
>
>
>
> 1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
> right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and
Details.
>
> 2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and
Details.
>
> 3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.
>
>
>
> Three different editors. Three different copy edits. I have my 
> 'druthers, but I thought I would reach out to all the writers on this 
> list and get a majority opinion. And yes, I am saying opinion, because 
> I know that there is an absolute right and wrong, but I need to be 
> neutral and non-judgmental when supplying my feedback and making the 
> correction. Three egos are involved. . . .
>
>
>
> TVB
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
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<http://www.linkedin.com/company-beta/399246/> <http://twitter.com/actifio>
<http://www.youtube.com/c/Actifio_Official>
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[John Sgammato]

I would just say:
The information is displayed across five tabs: Overview, Category, Locus,
Sequence, and Details.

I would assume an English-language reader would assume left to right.

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 1:34 PM  wrote:

> Consider the following three sentences:
>
>
>
> 1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
> right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.
>
> 2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.
>
> 3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
> right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.
>
>
>
> Three different editors. Three different copy edits. I have my 'druthers,
> but I thought I would reach out to all the writers on this list and get a
> majority opinion. And yes, I am saying opinion, because I know that there
> is
> an absolute right and wrong, but I need to be neutral and non-judgmental
> when supplying my feedback and making the correction. Three egos are
> involved. . . .
>
>
>
> TVB
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
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-- 

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*John Sgammato* *Documentation Architect*
 m 508.927.2083 | john.sgamm...@actifio.com | actifio.com
 


*Access your enterprise data as a service, instantly anywhere.*
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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[tammyvb]

LOL. I always edit to #1 as well - and I tried "that." The only agreement
among these three "editors" is the use of "which." (Yea, don't go there!)

TVB

Tammy Van Boening
Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
www.spectrumwritingllc.com

-Original Message-
From: Framers
 On
Behalf Of Carol J. Elkins
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 11:43 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

I've always edited to your option #1. Nonrestrictive clauses are set off by
commas.

But my personal choice would be to restructure so that the sentence uses a
restrictive clause:
4.) The information is displayed across five tabs that, from left 
to right, are Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

Carol

At 11:34 AM 1/7/2019, tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com wrote:
>Consider the following three sentences:
>
>1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
>right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.
>
>2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
>right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.
>
>3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
>right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

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Re: [Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[Carol J. Elkins]

I've always edited to your option #1. Nonrestrictive clauses are set 
off by commas.


But my personal choice would be to restructure so that the sentence 
uses a restrictive clause:
4.) The information is displayed across five tabs that, from left 
to right, are Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.


Carol

At 11:34 AM 1/7/2019, tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com wrote:

Consider the following three sentences:

1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.


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[Framers] OT: Punctuation question

[tammyvb]

Consider the following three sentences:

 

1.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which, from left to
right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

2.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
right, are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

3.)The information is displayed across five tabs, which from left to
right are the following: Overview, Category, Locus, Sequence, and Details.

 

Three different editors. Three different copy edits. I have my 'druthers,
but I thought I would reach out to all the writers on this list and get a
majority opinion. And yes, I am saying opinion, because I know that there is
an absolute right and wrong, but I need to be neutral and non-judgmental
when supplying my feedback and making the correction. Three egos are
involved. . . . 

 

TVB

 

Tammy Van Boening

Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com

www.spectrumwritingllc.com

 

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