Re: Converting Rows to Headers

[Yves Barbion]

Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
InDesign at the time.

And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
http://www.frameexpert.com/plugins/tablecleaner/is a must-have plug-in.

Cheers

-- 
Yves Barbion • Managing Director • Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor
www.scripto.nu  • skype: yves.barbion  • T: +32 494 12 01 89  • F: +32 9 366
50 23
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Re: Converting Rows to Headers

[Writer]

*shrug*

Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.

As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for 
FM. It should work the way it should work.

Nadine

On 12/02/2010 5:24 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:
 Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
 I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
 They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
 tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
 InDesign at the time.

 And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
 http://www.frameexpert.com/plugins/tablecleaner/is a must-have plug-in.

 Cheers



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Re: Converting Rows to Headers

[Art Campbell]

Actually, I'd take the opposite viewpoint.
Because users have different needs, there should be a larger multitude
of plug-ins to accommodate those specializations and unique needs and
ways of working.

Art Campbell
   art.campb...@gmail.com
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Writer generic...@yahoo.ca wrote:
 *shrug*

 Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.

 As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for
 FM. It should work the way it should work.

 Nadine

 On 12/02/2010 5:24 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:
 Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
 I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
 They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
 tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
 InDesign at the time.

 And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
 http://www.frameexpert.com/plugins/tablecleaner/is a must-have plug-in.

 Cheers



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Re: Converting Rows to Headers

[Les Smalley]

As you say, different users have different needs, but that does not mean
 the tool is wrong in how it goes about it's work.  Frame does work the way it 
should, you just don't like or agree with how it defines that.

Word should too, and not reformat documents on a whim or renumber items 
willy-nilly, crash (and corrupt the file) in your 1200 page manual, let you 
update all tables in a document with a new style in one shot, . . .

– Les

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, Writer generic...@yahoo.ca wrote:
*shrug*

Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.

As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for 
FM. It should work the way it should work.

Nadine

On 12/02/2010 5:24 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:

 Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
 I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
 They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
 tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
 InDesign at the time.

 And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
 http://www.frameexpert.com/plugins/tablecleaner/is a must-have plug-in.

 Cheers
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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Fred Ridder]

So what tool(s) do you think does a better job with tables than FrameMaker? 
I've used a lot of different tools over the years, and I find the FrameMaker 
implementation to be the best one I've worked with, and one of the few that 
actually handles a table as a self-contained object and not just a bunch of 
paragraphs with boxes around them.
As to plug-ins, I think the FrameMaker model of providing robust, predictable 
core functionality and leaving specialized to plug-ins is vastly preferable to 
the Microsoft philosophy of building every conceivable feature into the 
application itself. In addition to forcing all users to work around featurees 
they don't need and will never use, it generally seems to lead to slower 
performance and much lower stability.  It should also be noted that Adobe 
embraces the third-party plug-in model for several of their products, including 
their premier Photoshop and InDesign products.

I have been a power user of something like 15 different versions of Microsoft 
Word on Macintosh, DOS, and Windows platforms over they years, and I currently 
use both Word (2007) and FrameMaker on a daily basis, and the decision of which 
one to take with me to the proverbial desert island would take me about a 
millisecond. 
-Fred Ridder

 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:21:27 -0500
 From: generic...@yahoo.ca
 To: yves.barb...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: Converting Rows to Headers
 CC: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 
 *shrug*
 
 Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.
 
 As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for 
 FM. It should work the way it should work.
 
 Nadine

  
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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Writer]

Folks, I have no intention of getting into a pissing match with you all. If you 
feel that FM tables works well for you and meets your needs, excellent. If you 
have the budget to buy a plethora of plug-ins, also excellent. 

I don't know anything about your processes, procedures, needs, or budgets. I 
feel no compunction to tell you that your perceptions are wrong or to take you 
to task publicly and make you justify your perceptions.

Conversely, you don't know my processes, procedures, needs, and budget either. 
All I'm saying is that in my experience, I have not found the table feature in 
FM robust enough for me.

You're allowed to disagree with me. I'm okay with that. Different opinions are 
a good thing in a forum because that's what a forum is for. However, your 
opinion is an opinion, and not THE answer. My opinion isn't THE answer 
either...it's just my opinion.

Nadine

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com wrote:

 From: Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com
 Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
 To: generic...@yahoo.ca, Yves Barbion yves.barb...@gmail.com
 Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:57 AM
 
 
 
 
  
 So what tool(s) do you think does a better job with tables
 than FrameMaker? I've used a lot of different tools over
 the years, and I find the FrameMaker implementation to be
 the best one I've worked with, and one of the few that
 actually handles a table as a self-contained object and not
 just a bunch of paragraphs with boxes around them.
 As to plug-ins, I think the FrameMaker model of providing
 robust, predictable core functionality and leaving
 specialized to plug-ins is vastly preferable to the
 Microsoft philosophy of building every conceivable feature
 into the application itself. In addition to forcing all
 users to work around featurees they don't need and
 will never use, it generally seems to lead to
 slower performance and much lower stability.  It
 should also be noted that Adobe embraces the
 third-party plug-in model for several of their products,
 including their premier Photoshop and InDesign products.
 
 I have been a power user of something like 15 different
 versions of Microsoft Word on Macintosh, DOS, and Windows
 platforms over they years, and I currently use both Word
 (2007) and FrameMaker on a daily basis, and the
 decision of which one to take with me to the proverbial
 desert island would take me about a millisecond. 
 -Fred Ridder
 
  Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:21:27 -0500
  From: generic...@yahoo.ca
  To: yves.barb...@gmail.com
  Subject: Re: Converting Rows to Headers
  CC: framers@lists.frameusers.com
  
  *shrug*
  
  Different users have different needs, and FM tables
 don't meet mine.
  
  As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a
 multitude of plug-ins for 
  FM. It should work the way it should work.
  
  Nadine
 
 
 

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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Fred Ridder]

I was *not* attempting to get into a pissing contest with you. I am genuinely 
curious what tool you have found to be superior at handling tables and why. An 
opinion without supporting evidence or experience is not informative. I was 
hoping (perhaps naively...) that this thread could be turned into a discussion 
that would actually be useful to the members of the list. Who knows, if you 
bothered to tell the list what you see as FrameMaker's shortcomings you might 
lear than it is not as inadequate for your needs as you think. This list has 
some very savvy and inventive users who have come up with some very clever 
solutions to unusaul requirements.
-Fred Ridder

 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:41:07 -0800
 From: generic...@yahoo.ca
 Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
 To: yves.barb...@gmail.com; docu...@hotmail.com
 CC: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 
 Folks, I have no intention of getting into a pissing match with you all. If 
 you feel that FM tables works well for you and meets your needs, excellent. 
 If you have the budget to buy a plethora of plug-ins, also excellent. 
 
 I don't know anything about your processes, procedures, needs, or budgets. I 
 feel no compunction to tell you that your perceptions are wrong or to take 
 you to task publicly and make you justify your perceptions.
 
 Conversely, you don't know my processes, procedures, needs, and budget 
 either. All I'm saying is that in my experience, I have not found the table 
 feature in FM robust enough for me.
 
 You're allowed to disagree with me. I'm okay with that. Different opinions 
 are a good thing in a forum because that's what a forum is for. However, your 
 opinion is an opinion, and not THE answer. My opinion isn't THE answer 
 either...it's just my opinion.
 
 Nadine
 
 --- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
  From: Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com
  Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
  To: generic...@yahoo.ca, Yves Barbion yves.barb...@gmail.com
  Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
  Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:57 AM
  
  
  
  
  
  So what tool(s) do you think does a better job with tables
  than FrameMaker? I've used a lot of different tools over
  the years, and I find the FrameMaker implementation to be
  the best one I've worked with, and one of the few that
  actually handles a table as a self-contained object and not
  just a bunch of paragraphs with boxes around them.

  
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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Syed.Hosain]

 I am genuinely curious what tool you have found to be superior at
handling tables and why.

Same here ... I have not looked much, but, like you, I use FrameMaker 8
and Word 2007 (different purposes) and I definitely prefer FM to Word
for the table handling.

Is there some other product that works better for tables in documents?

Z
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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Writer]

Some particular points that have frustrated me in the past are:

* rows not splitting across pages
* not being able to nest a table within a table without putting the inner table 
in an anchored frame
* not being able to rotate a table without putting it in an anchored frame

I know that most of those are surmountable if I'm using FM to create my output, 
but I use other tools to create output (such as ePublisher), and the results 
can be less than optimal. For example, ePublisher converts anything in an 
anchored frame to a graphic, and so text is not formatted for tables within 
anchored frames.

Fred, you mentioned Word in your previous post. I do think that Word handles 
tables better than FM does, at least with the first two points. I don't think 
I've tried to rotate a table in Word, so I'm not sure about that. However, as 
you also mentioned, Word doesn't handle anything else particularly well, so I 
don't consider is an acceptable tool overall.

I do like FM, and it meets most of my needs within acceptable limits. I just 
don't like the table feature.

As for plug-ins, I think it's great that people can come up with plug-ins to 
fill in the gaps (pardon the pun) in FM. It's the spirit of open source, but 
with a price tag. A lot of plug-ins aren't free. I would find it embarrassing 
to constantly have to go to my manager with my cap in hand saying, Please, 
sir, I want some more.

Nadine

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com wrote:

 From: Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com
 Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
 To: generic...@yahoo.ca, Yves Barbion yves.barb...@gmail.com
 Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 10:13 AM
 
 
 
 
  
 I was *not* attempting to get into a pissing contest with
 you. I am genuinely curious what tool you have found to be
 superior at handling tables and why. An opinion without
 supporting evidence or experience is not informative. I was
 hoping (perhaps naively...) that this thread could be turned
 into a discussion that would actually be useful to the
 members of the list. Who knows, if you bothered to tell the
 list what you see as FrameMaker's shortcomings you might
 lear than it is not as inadequate for your needs as you
 think. This list has some very savvy and inventive users who
 have come up with some very clever solutions to unusaul
 requirements.
 -Fred Ridder
 
  Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:41:07 -0800
  From: generic...@yahoo.ca
  Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
  To: yves.barb...@gmail.com; docu...@hotmail.com
  CC: framers@lists.frameusers.com
  
  Folks, I have no intention of getting into a pissing
 match with you all. If you feel that FM tables works well
 for you and meets your needs, excellent. If you have the
 budget to buy a plethora of plug-ins, also excellent. 
  
  I don't know anything about your processes,
 procedures, needs, or budgets. I feel no compunction to tell
 you that your perceptions are wrong or to take you to task
 publicly and make you justify your perceptions.
  
  Conversely, you don't know my processes,
 procedures, needs, and budget either. All I'm saying is
 that in my experience, I have not found the table feature in
 FM robust enough for me.
  
  You're allowed to disagree with me. I'm okay
 with that. Different opinions are a good thing in a forum
 because that's what a forum is for. However, your
 opinion is an opinion, and not THE answer. My opinion
 isn't THE answer either...it's just my opinion.
  
  Nadine
  
  --- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder
 docu...@hotmail.com wrote:
  
   From: Fred Ridder docu...@hotmail.com
   Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
   To: generic...@yahoo.ca, Yves Barbion
 yves.barb...@gmail.com
   Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
   Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:57 AM
   
   
   
   
   
   So what tool(s) do you think does a better job
 with tables
   than FrameMaker? I've used a lot of different
 tools over
   the years, and I find the FrameMaker
 implementation to be
   the best one I've worked with, and one of the
 few that
   actually handles a table as a self-contained
 object and not
   just a bunch of paragraphs with boxes around
 them.
 
 
 

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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Sharon Burton]

I just want to chime in and say that with TableCleaner, I paid for my
investment in the first hour. I bought it years ago when converting a large
doc from Word to Frame. Lots of tables - did I mention lots of tables? As a
flat rate project, I needed a way to work more efficiently. 

TableCleaner was/is the bomb. 


sharon

Sharon Burton
Content Consultant
www.anthrobytes.com
951-369-8590
IM: sharonvbur...@yahoo.com
Twitter: sharonburton
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonvburton


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:27 AM
To: generic...@yahoo.ca
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers

Hi Nadine,

I have been watching this thread with interest, since I am the author of the
TableCleaner plugin that others recommended. I will be honest and say that I
developed TableCleaner, not in the spirit of open source, but because I
wanted to solve the problems associated with working with tables imported
from Word. And, I wanted to make some money doing it. That is the beauty of
free enterprise: I can earn a living developing software that solves
problems for people and makes their jobs easier.

I too would be embarrassed by saying, Please sir, I want some more. But
that is only because you don't see value in what you are asking for. If you
did, you might say, Please sir, for a small investment, I can make dramatic
gains in my productivity. I don't know of any manager that isn't interested
in getting more productivity out of his people.

Since I starting working with FrameMaker automation 12 years ago, I have
been amazed at the huge return on investment that even a small amount of
automation can bring. As workforces shrink and the amount of work we have to
do expands, automation is more important now than ever. Even with ever more
powerful computers, it is mind-boggling how much tedious and error prone by
hand work we still do when working on documentation. This is the kind of
work that takes us away from our primary responsibilities. I am sure it
sounds self-serving, but many of my clients will tell you that automation
has helped them tremendously.

Respectfully,

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
r...@frameexpert.com



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Re: Converting Rows to Headers

[Peter Gold]

In circumstances where employers expect/demand more productivity from
fewer workers working longer hours and are professionals not on hourly
pay, there's no please, I want some more from you, it's just I want
more or else.

The roll of FrameMaker productivity plug-ins is not endless. Most give
a big bang for their reasonable prices, and, if your department has a
lot of users (rarer-and-rarer these days,) most have reduced-price
quantity licensing.

Compare the cost of the basic handful of plug-ins to time saved -
either in employee cost to employer, or in reduced stress, or in fewer
unpaid overtime hours needed, or in hours of family time and rest
gained, it's so positive a gain that, if anything, employers should be
happy to buy them for their workers.

BTW, Rick, IMO, no need to apologize for honoring the tradition of the
American entrepreneurial spirit - invent something of value and sell
it to those it matters to; reinvest some of the profit in inventing
more valuable stuff.

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices
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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Diane Gaskill]

Hey Rick,

Speaking of automation, I heard a rumor that there's a tool called
FrameScript.  Would you know anything about that?
:-)

The sign on the gate says:   Last Words Cemetery.
An epitaph on a large headstone reads:

 MANUAL SCHMANUAL
I'LL FIGURE IT OUT

Cheers,
Diane (having little fun on Friday)
===


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]on Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:27 AM
To: generic...@yahoo.ca
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers


Hi Nadine,

I have been watching this thread with interest, since I am the author of the
TableCleaner plugin that others recommended. I will be honest and say that I
developed TableCleaner, not in the spirit of open source, but because I
wanted to solve the problems associated with working with tables imported
from Word. And, I wanted to make some money doing it. That is the beauty of
free enterprise: I can earn a living developing software that solves
problems for people and makes their jobs easier.

I too would be embarrassed by saying, Please sir, I want some more. But
that is only because you don't see value in what you are asking for. If you
did, you might say, Please sir, for a small investment, I can make dramatic
gains in my productivity. I don't know of any manager that isn't interested
in getting more productivity out of his people.

Since I starting working with FrameMaker automation 12 years ago, I have
been amazed at the huge return on investment that even a small amount of
automation can bring. As workforces shrink and the amount of work we have to
do expands, automation is more important now than ever. Even with ever more
powerful computers, it is mind-boggling how much tedious and error prone by
hand work we still do when working on documentation. This is the kind of
work that takes us away from our primary responsibilities. I am sure it
sounds self-serving, but many of my clients will tell you that automation
has helped them tremendously.

Respectfully,

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
r...@frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com


As for plug-ins, I think it's great that people can come up with plug-ins to
fill in the gaps (pardon the pun) in FM. It's the spirit of open source, but
with a price tag. A lot of plug-ins aren't free. I would find it
embarrassing to constantly have to go to my manager with my cap in hand
saying, Please, sir, I want some more.

Nadine


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Converting Rows to Headers

[Yves Barbion]

Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
InDesign at the time.

And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
is a must-have plug-in.

Cheers

-- 
Yves Barbion ? Managing Director ? Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor
www.scripto.nu  ? skype: yves.barbion  ? T: +32 494 12 01 89  ? F: +32 9 366
50 23

Converting Rows to Headers

[Writer]

*shrug*

Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.

As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for 
FM. It should work the way it should work.

Nadine

On 12/02/2010 5:24 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:
> Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
> I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
> They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
> tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
> InDesign at the time.
>
> And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
> is a must-have plug-in.
>
> Cheers
>
>

Converting Rows to Headers

[Art Campbell]

Actually, I'd take the opposite viewpoint.
Because users have different needs, there should be a larger multitude
of plug-ins to accommodate those specializations and unique needs and
ways of working.

Art Campbell
   art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Writer  wrote:
> *shrug*
>
> Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.
>
> As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for
> FM. It should work the way it should work.
>
> Nadine
>
> On 12/02/2010 5:24 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:
>> Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
>> I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
>> They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
>> tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
>> InDesign at the time.
>>
>> And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
>> is a must-have plug-in.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
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>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Converting Rows to Headers

[Les Smalley]

As you say, different users have different needs, but that does not mean
 the tool is wrong in how it goes about it's work.? Frame does work the way it 
should, you just don't like or agree with how it defines that.

Word should too, and not reformat documents on a whim or renumber items 
willy-nilly, crash (and corrupt the file) in your 1200 page manual, let you 
update all tables in a document with a new style in one shot, . . .

? Les

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, Writer  wrote:
*shrug*

Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.

As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for 
FM. It should work the way it should work.

Nadine

On 12/02/2010 5:24 AM, Yves Barbion wrote:

> Tables not FM's strong point? Hmmm, I haven't heard that one before, Nadine.
> I've seen a prepress company buying FM only for its powerful table features.
> They had to produce travel catalogs of several hundreds of pages full of
> tables and pictures and they couldn't get the job done with Quark XPress or
> InDesign at the time.
>
> And yes, Rick's TableCleaner
> is a must-have plug-in.
>
> Cheers

Converting Rows to Headers

[Fred Ridder]

So what tool(s) do you think does a better job with tables than FrameMaker? 
I've used a lot of different tools over the years, and I find the FrameMaker 
implementation to be the best one I've worked with, and one of the few that 
actually handles a table as a self-contained object and not just a bunch of 
paragraphs with boxes around them.
As to plug-ins, I think the FrameMaker model of providing robust, predictable 
core functionality and leaving specialized to plug-ins is vastly preferable to 
the Microsoft philosophy of building every conceivable feature into the 
application itself. In addition to forcing all users to work around featurees 
they don't need and will never use, it generally seems to lead to slower 
performance and much lower stability.  It should also be noted that Adobe 
embraces the third-party plug-in model for several of their products, including 
their premier Photoshop and InDesign products.

I have been a power user of something like 15 different versions of Microsoft 
Word on Macintosh, DOS, and Windows platforms over they years, and I currently 
use both Word (2007) and FrameMaker on a daily basis, and the decision of which 
one to take with me to the proverbial desert island would take me about a 
millisecond. 
-Fred Ridder

> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:21:27 -0500
> From: generic668 at yahoo.ca
> To: yves.barbion at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Converting Rows to Headers
> CC: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> Different users have different needs, and FM tables don't meet mine.
> 
> As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a multitude of plug-ins for 
> FM. It should work the way it should work.
> 
> Nadine

Converting Rows to Headers

[Writer]

Folks, I have no intention of getting into a pissing match with you all. If you 
feel that FM tables works well for you and meets your needs, excellent. If you 
have the budget to buy a plethora of plug-ins, also excellent. 

I don't know anything about your processes, procedures, needs, or budgets. I 
feel no compunction to tell you that your perceptions are wrong or to take you 
to task publicly and make you justify your perceptions.

Conversely, you don't know my processes, procedures, needs, and budget either. 
All I'm saying is that in my experience, I have not found the table feature in 
FM robust enough for me.

You're allowed to disagree with me. I'm okay with that. Different opinions are 
a good thing in a forum because that's what a forum is for. However, your 
opinion is an opinion, and not THE answer. My opinion isn't THE answer 
either...it's just my opinion.

Nadine

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder  wrote:

> From: Fred Ridder 
> Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
> To: generic668 at yahoo.ca, "Yves Barbion" 
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:57 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> So what tool(s) do you think does a better job with tables
> than FrameMaker? I've used a lot of different tools over
> the years, and I find the FrameMaker implementation to be
> the best one I've worked with, and one of the few that
> actually handles a table as a self-contained object and not
> just a bunch of paragraphs with boxes around them.
> As to plug-ins, I think the FrameMaker model of providing
> robust, predictable core functionality and leaving
> specialized to plug-ins is vastly preferable to the
> Microsoft philosophy of building every conceivable feature
> into the application itself. In addition to?forcing all
> users to work around featurees they?don't need and
> will never use, it generally seems to lead to
> slower?performance and much lower stability.? It
> should also be noted that Adobe?embraces the
> third-party plug-in model for several of their products,
> including their premier Photoshop and InDesign products.
> 
> I have been a power user of something like 15 different
> versions of Microsoft Word on Macintosh, DOS, and Windows
> platforms over they years, and I currently use both Word
> (2007) and FrameMaker on a daily basis, and?the
> decision of which one to take with me to the proverbial
> desert island would take me about a millisecond.?
> -Fred Ridder
> 
> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:21:27 -0500
> > From: generic668 at yahoo.ca
> > To: yves.barbion at gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: Converting Rows to Headers
> > CC: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > 
> > *shrug*
> > 
> > Different users have different needs, and FM tables
> don't meet mine.
> > 
> > As to the OP's op, we shouldn't have to have a
> multitude of plug-ins for 
> > FM. It should work the way it should work.
> > 
> > Nadine
> 
> 
> 

Converting Rows to Headers

[Fred Ridder]

I was *not* attempting to get into a pissing contest with you. I am genuinely 
curious what tool you have found to be superior at handling tables and why. An 
opinion without supporting evidence or experience is not informative. I was 
hoping (perhaps naively...) that this thread could be turned into a discussion 
that would actually be useful to the members of the list. Who knows, if you 
bothered to tell the list what you see as FrameMaker's shortcomings you might 
lear than it is not as inadequate for your needs as you think. This list has 
some very savvy and inventive users who have come up with some very clever 
solutions to unusaul requirements.
-Fred Ridder

> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:41:07 -0800
> From: generic668 at yahoo.ca
> Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
> To: yves.barbion at gmail.com; docudoc at hotmail.com
> CC: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> 
> Folks, I have no intention of getting into a pissing match with you all. If 
> you feel that FM tables works well for you and meets your needs, excellent. 
> If you have the budget to buy a plethora of plug-ins, also excellent. 
> 
> I don't know anything about your processes, procedures, needs, or budgets. I 
> feel no compunction to tell you that your perceptions are wrong or to take 
> you to task publicly and make you justify your perceptions.
> 
> Conversely, you don't know my processes, procedures, needs, and budget 
> either. All I'm saying is that in my experience, I have not found the table 
> feature in FM robust enough for me.
> 
> You're allowed to disagree with me. I'm okay with that. Different opinions 
> are a good thing in a forum because that's what a forum is for. However, your 
> opinion is an opinion, and not THE answer. My opinion isn't THE answer 
> either...it's just my opinion.
> 
> Nadine
> 
> --- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder  wrote:
> 
> > From: Fred Ridder 
> > Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
> > To: generic668 at yahoo.ca, "Yves Barbion" 
> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:57 AM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > So what tool(s) do you think does a better job with tables
> > than FrameMaker? I've used a lot of different tools over
> > the years, and I find the FrameMaker implementation to be
> > the best one I've worked with, and one of the few that
> > actually handles a table as a self-contained object and not
> > just a bunch of paragraphs with boxes around them.

Converting Rows to Headers

[syed.hos...@aeris.net]

> I am genuinely curious what tool you have found to be superior at
handling tables and why.

Same here ... I have not looked much, but, like you, I use FrameMaker 8
and Word 2007 (different purposes) and I definitely prefer FM to Word
for the table handling.

Is there some other product that works better for tables in documents?

Z

Converting Rows to Headers

[Writer]

Some particular points that have frustrated me in the past are:

* rows not splitting across pages
* not being able to nest a table within a table without putting the inner table 
in an anchored frame
* not being able to rotate a table without putting it in an anchored frame

I know that most of those are surmountable if I'm using FM to create my output, 
but I use other tools to create output (such as ePublisher), and the results 
can be less than optimal. For example, ePublisher converts anything in an 
anchored frame to a graphic, and so text is not formatted for tables within 
anchored frames.

Fred, you mentioned Word in your previous post. I do think that Word handles 
tables better than FM does, at least with the first two points. I don't think 
I've tried to rotate a table in Word, so I'm not sure about that. However, as 
you also mentioned, Word doesn't handle anything else particularly well, so I 
don't consider is an acceptable tool overall.

I do like FM, and it meets most of my needs within acceptable limits. I just 
don't like the table feature.

As for plug-ins, I think it's great that people can come up with plug-ins to 
fill in the gaps (pardon the pun) in FM. It's the spirit of open source, but 
with a price tag. A lot of plug-ins aren't free. I would find it embarrassing 
to constantly have to go to my manager with my cap in hand saying, "Please, 
sir, I want some more."

Nadine

--- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder  wrote:

> From: Fred Ridder 
> Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
> To: generic668 at yahoo.ca, "Yves Barbion" 
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 10:13 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> I was *not* attempting to get into a pissing contest with
> you. I am genuinely curious what tool you have found to be
> superior at handling tables and why. An opinion without
> supporting evidence or experience is not informative. I was
> hoping (perhaps naively...) that this thread could be turned
> into a discussion that would actually be useful to the
> members of the list. Who knows, if you bothered to tell the
> list what you see as FrameMaker's shortcomings you might
> lear than it is not as inadequate for your needs as you
> think. This list has some very savvy and inventive users who
> have come up with some very clever solutions to?unusaul
> requirements.
> -Fred Ridder
> 
> > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:41:07 -0800
> > From: generic668 at yahoo.ca
> > Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
> > To: yves.barbion at gmail.com; docudoc at hotmail.com
> > CC: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > 
> > Folks, I have no intention of getting into a pissing
> match with you all. If you feel that FM tables works well
> for you and meets your needs, excellent. If you have the
> budget to buy a plethora of plug-ins, also excellent. 
> > 
> > I don't know anything about your processes,
> procedures, needs, or budgets. I feel no compunction to tell
> you that your perceptions are wrong or to take you to task
> publicly and make you justify your perceptions.
> > 
> > Conversely, you don't know my processes,
> procedures, needs, and budget either. All I'm saying is
> that in my experience, I have not found the table feature in
> FM robust enough for me.
> > 
> > You're allowed to disagree with me. I'm okay
> with that. Different opinions are a good thing in a forum
> because that's what a forum is for. However, your
> opinion is an opinion, and not THE answer. My opinion
> isn't THE answer either...it's just my opinion.
> > 
> > Nadine
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 2/12/10, Fred Ridder
>  wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Fred Ridder 
> > > Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers
> > > To: generic668 at yahoo.ca, "Yves Barbion"
> 
> > > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > > Date: Friday, February 12, 2010, 8:57 AM
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > So what tool(s) do you think does a better job
> with tables
> > > than FrameMaker? I've used a lot of different
> tools over
> > > the years, and I find the FrameMaker
> implementation to be
> > > the best one I've worked with, and one of the
> few that
> > > actually handles a table as a self-contained
> object and not
> > > just a bunch of paragraphs with boxes around
> them.
> 
> 
> 

Converting Rows to Headers

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Nadine,

I have been watching this thread with interest, since I am the author of the
TableCleaner plugin that others recommended. I will be honest and say that I
developed TableCleaner, not in the spirit of open source, but because I
wanted to solve the problems associated with working with tables imported
from Word. And, I wanted to make some money doing it. That is the beauty of
free enterprise: I can earn a living developing software that solves
problems for people and makes their jobs easier.

I too would be embarrassed by saying, "Please sir, I want some more." But
that is only because you don't see value in what you are asking for. If you
did, you might say, "Please sir, for a small investment, I can make dramatic
gains in my productivity." I don't know of any manager that isn't interested
in getting more productivity out of his people.

Since I starting working with FrameMaker automation 12 years ago, I have
been amazed at the huge return on investment that even a small amount of
automation can bring. As workforces shrink and the amount of work we have to
do expands, automation is more important now than ever. Even with ever more
powerful computers, it is mind-boggling how much tedious and error prone "by
hand" work we still do when working on documentation. This is the kind of
work that takes us away from our primary responsibilities. I am sure it
sounds self-serving, but many of my clients will tell you that automation
has helped them tremendously.

Respectfully,

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
rick at frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com


As for plug-ins, I think it's great that people can come up with plug-ins to
fill in the gaps (pardon the pun) in FM. It's the spirit of open source, but
with a price tag. A lot of plug-ins aren't free. I would find it
embarrassing to constantly have to go to my manager with my cap in hand
saying, "Please, sir, I want some more."

Nadine

Converting Rows to Headers

[Sharon Burton]

I just want to chime in and say that with TableCleaner, I paid for my
investment in the first hour. I bought it years ago when converting a large
doc from Word to Frame. Lots of tables - did I mention lots of tables? As a
flat rate project, I needed a way to work more efficiently. 

TableCleaner was/is the bomb. 


sharon

Sharon Burton
Content Consultant
www.anthrobytes.com
951-369-8590
IM: sharonvburton at yahoo.com
Twitter: sharonburton
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonvburton


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:27 AM
To: generic668 at yahoo.ca
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers

Hi Nadine,

I have been watching this thread with interest, since I am the author of the
TableCleaner plugin that others recommended. I will be honest and say that I
developed TableCleaner, not in the spirit of open source, but because I
wanted to solve the problems associated with working with tables imported
from Word. And, I wanted to make some money doing it. That is the beauty of
free enterprise: I can earn a living developing software that solves
problems for people and makes their jobs easier.

I too would be embarrassed by saying, "Please sir, I want some more." But
that is only because you don't see value in what you are asking for. If you
did, you might say, "Please sir, for a small investment, I can make dramatic
gains in my productivity." I don't know of any manager that isn't interested
in getting more productivity out of his people.

Since I starting working with FrameMaker automation 12 years ago, I have
been amazed at the huge return on investment that even a small amount of
automation can bring. As workforces shrink and the amount of work we have to
do expands, automation is more important now than ever. Even with ever more
powerful computers, it is mind-boggling how much tedious and error prone "by
hand" work we still do when working on documentation. This is the kind of
work that takes us away from our primary responsibilities. I am sure it
sounds self-serving, but many of my clients will tell you that automation
has helped them tremendously.

Respectfully,

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
rick at frameexpert.com

Converting Rows to Headers

[Peter Gold]

In circumstances where employers expect/demand more productivity from
fewer workers working longer hours and are professionals not on hourly
pay, there's no "please, I want some more from you," it's just "I want
more or else."

The roll of FrameMaker productivity plug-ins is not endless. Most give
a big bang for their reasonable prices, and, if your department has a
lot of users (rarer-and-rarer these days,) most have reduced-price
quantity licensing.

Compare the cost of the basic handful of plug-ins to time saved -
either in employee cost to employer, or in reduced stress, or in fewer
unpaid overtime hours needed, or in hours of family time and rest
gained, it's so positive a gain that, if anything, employers should be
happy to buy them for their workers.

BTW, Rick, IMO, no need to apologize for honoring the tradition of the
American entrepreneurial spirit - invent something of value and sell
it to those it matters to; reinvest some of the profit in inventing
more valuable stuff.

Regards,

Peter
___
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

Converting Rows to Headers

[Diane Gaskill]

Hey Rick,

Speaking of automation, I heard a rumor that there's a tool called
FrameScript.  Would you know anything about that?
:-)

The sign on the gate says:   Last Words Cemetery.
An epitaph on a large headstone reads:

 MANUAL SCHMANUAL
I'LL FIGURE IT OUT

Cheers,
Diane (having little fun on Friday)
===


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 8:27 AM
To: generic668 at yahoo.ca
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Converting Rows to Headers


Hi Nadine,

I have been watching this thread with interest, since I am the author of the
TableCleaner plugin that others recommended. I will be honest and say that I
developed TableCleaner, not in the spirit of open source, but because I
wanted to solve the problems associated with working with tables imported
from Word. And, I wanted to make some money doing it. That is the beauty of
free enterprise: I can earn a living developing software that solves
problems for people and makes their jobs easier.

I too would be embarrassed by saying, "Please sir, I want some more." But
that is only because you don't see value in what you are asking for. If you
did, you might say, "Please sir, for a small investment, I can make dramatic
gains in my productivity." I don't know of any manager that isn't interested
in getting more productivity out of his people.

Since I starting working with FrameMaker automation 12 years ago, I have
been amazed at the huge return on investment that even a small amount of
automation can bring. As workforces shrink and the amount of work we have to
do expands, automation is more important now than ever. Even with ever more
powerful computers, it is mind-boggling how much tedious and error prone "by
hand" work we still do when working on documentation. This is the kind of
work that takes us away from our primary responsibilities. I am sure it
sounds self-serving, but many of my clients will tell you that automation
has helped them tremendously.

Respectfully,

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-659-8267
rick at frameexpert.com

*** Frame Automation blog at http://frameautomation.com


As for plug-ins, I think it's great that people can come up with plug-ins to
fill in the gaps (pardon the pun) in FM. It's the spirit of open source, but
with a price tag. A lot of plug-ins aren't free. I would find it
embarrassing to constantly have to go to my manager with my cap in hand
saying, "Please, sir, I want some more."

Nadine


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Re: Converting Rows to Headers

[Art Campbell]

You're missing Rick Quatro's TableCleaner plug in, a great tool that
does this conversion as well as a host of other table-related stuff.
It's a critical piece of my tool kit...

http://www.frameexpert.com/plugins/tablecleaner/index.htm

If you have a herd of these to do, Rick could probably whip up a
FrameScript that would do this at the book or directory level...

Art

Art Campbell
   art.campb...@gmail.com
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Howard Rauch
techtrans...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Frame 7.0 (my clients have not caught up to FM9 yet)
 Windows XP Pro

 I have a number of multipage tables for which I need to convert the first two 
 table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the only method I've 
 found that works is to set up a new blank table having two header rows and 
 then copy the original table into the new one. It seems to me that with its 
 power, FM could easily convert body rows into header rows. Am I missing 
 something? I've checked Help and found it to be of no help in this regard.

 Howard Rauch

 Technology Transfer, Inc.
 Linking Creators and Users of Technology
 933 North 18th Street
 Manitowoc WI 54220
 Office: 920-682-1528
 Cell: 920-629-1782
 920-629-0080
 ___


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Re: Converting Rows to Headers

[Stuart Rogers]

On 11/02/2010 11:58 AM, Howard Rauch wrote:
 Frame 7.0 (my clients have not caught up to FM9 yet) Windows XP Pro

 I have a number of multipage tables for which I need to convert the
 first two table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the
 only method I've found that works is to set up a new blank table
 having two header rows and then copy the original table into the new
 one. It seems to me that with its power, FM could easily convert body
 rows into header rows. Am I missing something? I've checked Help and
 found it to be of no help in this regard.


Table  Add Rows or Columns

Add 2 rows To Heading

Cut your first two body rows (Remove Cells from Table) and Paste them 
into the Heading rows (Replace Current Rows).  You may have to apply pgf 
tags to the Heading cells after this operation.

HTH,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't
intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.

Buzz Aldrin (1930 - )

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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Diane Gaskill]

There is a much faster and easier way to do what you are doing.  Use the
tablecleaner plugin from Rick Quatro.  Works like a champ, believe me.
We're converting some legacy docs from mewierd to structured FM.  I cleaned
up 100 tables in a 400 page manual, (including changing body rows to heading
rows in about 30 seconds.  Cleans up all the text problems too.  However, it
doesn't take the text string that word uses for table headings and move it
into the table title field in an FM table.  (Hey, Rick, are you listening?
:-)
Not sure of the price now, but I think I paid $60.  ROI: 30 seconds.  I
cannot imagine how long it would have taken me to do all that manually.

Diane Gaskill
Hitachi Data systems


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com]on Behalf Of Howard Rauch
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:58 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Converting Rows to Headers


Frame 7.0 (my clients have not caught up to FM9 yet)
Windows XP Pro

I have a number of multipage tables for which I need to convert the first
two table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the only method
I've found that works is to set up a new blank table having two header
rows and then copy the original table into the new one. It seems to me that
with its power, FM could easily convert body rows into header rows. Am I
missing something? I've checked Help and found it to be of no help in this
regard.

Howard Rauch
 
Technology Transfer, Inc.
Linking Creators and Users of Technology
933 North 18th Street
Manitowoc WI 54220
Office: 920-682-1528
Cell: 920-629-1782
920-629-0080
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RE: Converting Rows to Headers

[Combs, Richard]

Howard Rauch wrote:
 
 I have a number of multipage tables for which I need to convert the first
 two table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the only method
 I've found that works is to set up a new blank table having two header
 rows and then copy the original table into the new one. It seems to me that
 with its power, FM could easily convert body rows into header rows. Am I
 missing something? I've checked Help and found it to be of no help in this
 regard.

Just to reinforce the message you've been getting, I'll add another 
enthusiastic endorsement of Rick Quatro's TableCleaner. My ROI period was 
longer than Diane's -- maybe as much as half an hour. But even without a big 
Word-to-FM conversion project (for which it's indispensable), the argument for 
TableCleaner is compelling. 

FWIW, I disagree with Nadine. I generally like FM's table functionality (better 
than Word's), and _not_ splitting rows across pages is one of the things I 
really like. :-)


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--






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Converting Rows to Headers

[Howard Rauch]

Frame 7.0 (my clients have not?caught up to FM9 yet)
Windows XP Pro

I have a number of multipage tables?for which I need to convert the first two 
table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the only method I've 
found that works is to set up a new blank table?having two header rows?and then 
copy the original table into the new?one. It seems to me that with?its power, 
FM could easily convert?body rows into header rows. Am I missing something? 
I've checked Help and found it to be of no help in this regard.

Howard Rauch
?
Technology Transfer, Inc.
"Linking Creators and Users of Technology"
933 North 18th Street
Manitowoc WI 54220
Office: 920-682-1528
Cell: 920-629-1782
920-629-0080

Converting Rows to Headers

[Art Campbell]

You're missing Rick Quatro's TableCleaner plug in, a great tool that
does this conversion as well as a host of other table-related stuff.
It's a critical piece of my tool kit...

http://www.frameexpert.com/plugins/tablecleaner/index.htm

If you have a herd of these to do, Rick could probably whip up a
FrameScript that would do this at the book or directory level...

Art

Art Campbell
   art.campbell at gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52
Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358



On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Howard Rauch
 wrote:
> Frame 7.0 (my clients have not?caught up to FM9 yet)
> Windows XP Pro
>
> I have a number of multipage tables?for which I need to convert the first two 
> table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the only method I've 
> found that works is to set up a new blank table?having two header rows?and 
> then copy the original table into the new?one. It seems to me that with?its 
> power, FM could easily convert?body rows into header rows. Am I missing 
> something? I've checked Help and found it to be of no help in this regard.
>
> Howard Rauch
>
> Technology Transfer, Inc.
> "Linking Creators and Users of Technology"
> 933 North 18th Street
> Manitowoc WI 54220
> Office: 920-682-1528
> Cell: 920-629-1782
> 920-629-0080
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as art.campbell at gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

Converting Rows to Headers

[Stuart Rogers]

On 11/02/2010 11:58 AM, Howard Rauch wrote:
> Frame 7.0 (my clients have not caught up to FM9 yet) Windows XP Pro
>
> I have a number of multipage tables for which I need to convert the
> first two table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the
> only method I've found that works is to set up a new blank table
> having two header rows and then copy the original table into the new
> one. It seems to me that with its power, FM could easily convert body
> rows into header rows. Am I missing something? I've checked Help and
> found it to be of no help in this regard.
>

Table > Add Rows or Columns

Add 2 rows To Heading

Cut your first two body rows (Remove Cells from Table) and Paste them 
into the Heading rows (Replace Current Rows).  You may have to apply pgf 
tags to the Heading cells after this operation.

HTH,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
Toronto, ON, Canada
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

srogers phoenix-geophysics com

"I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't
intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises."

Buzz Aldrin (1930 - )

Converting Rows to Headers

[Diane Gaskill]

There is a much faster and easier way to do what you are doing.  Use the
tablecleaner plugin from Rick Quatro.  Works like a champ, believe me.
We're converting some legacy docs from mewierd to structured FM.  I cleaned
up 100 tables in a 400 page manual, (including changing body rows to heading
rows in about 30 seconds.  Cleans up all the text problems too.  However, it
doesn't take the text string that word uses for table headings and move it
into the table title field in an FM table.  (Hey, Rick, are you listening?
:-)
Not sure of the price now, but I think I paid $60.  ROI: 30 seconds.  I
cannot imagine how long it would have taken me to do all that manually.

Diane Gaskill
Hitachi Data systems


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of Howard Rauch
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:58 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Converting Rows to Headers


Frame 7.0 (my clients have not?caught up to FM9 yet)
Windows XP Pro

I have a number of multipage tables?for which I need to convert the first
two table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the only method
I've found that works is to set up a new blank table?having two header
rows?and then copy the original table into the new?one. It seems to me that
with?its power, FM could easily convert?body rows into header rows. Am I
missing something? I've checked Help and found it to be of no help in this
regard.

Howard Rauch
?
Technology Transfer, Inc.
"Linking Creators and Users of Technology"
933 North 18th Street
Manitowoc WI 54220
Office: 920-682-1528
Cell: 920-629-1782
920-629-0080
___


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Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.

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Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit
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Converting Rows to Headers

[Writer]

I have found that tables have never been FM's strong point. What I find 
especially annoying is the inability to split rows across pages. 

Nadine

> It seems to
> me that with?its power, FM could easily convert?body rows
> into header rows. Am I missing something? I've checked Help
> and found it to be of no help in this regard.

Converting Rows to Headers

[Combs, Richard]

Howard Rauch wrote:

> I have a number of multipage tables?for which I need to convert the first
> two table body rows (conventional) to header rows. So far the only method
> I've found that works is to set up a new blank table?having two header
> rows?and then copy the original table into the new?one. It seems to me that
> with?its power, FM could easily convert?body rows into header rows. Am I
> missing something? I've checked Help and found it to be of no help in this
> regard.

Just to reinforce the message you've been getting, I'll add another 
enthusiastic endorsement of Rick Quatro's TableCleaner. My ROI period was 
longer than Diane's -- maybe as much as half an hour. But even without a big 
Word-to-FM conversion project (for which it's indispensable), the argument for 
TableCleaner is compelling. 

FWIW, I disagree with Nadine. I generally like FM's table functionality (better 
than Word's), and _not_ splitting rows across pages is one of the things I 
really like. :-)


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--