Re: FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Bodvar Bjorgvinsson]

Hi Rene,

I can only tell you how it is with Acrobat 6.

When one prints a pdf from Acrobat other than the standard set size
(Letter size in the US, A4 in Europe), Acrobat usually does something
of the sort you explain. I have a lot of users that have to be able to
print different sizes, and my solution has been this:

Before you print from Acrobat, you have to go to Acrobat's File 
Print Setup (SHIFT+CTRL+P) and set the size in there. Then and only
then can you expect to print in the normal way (CTRL+P). It seems that
it is not enough to set the settings int the regular Print window.

The downside is that this is something you have to tell your customers
to do, because Adobe did not exactly advertise this clumsiness.
Hopefully this has been solved in later versions of Acrobat.

HTH,

Bodvar Bjorgvinsson

On 5/31/07, Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

All,

  We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape layout. It is set 
up in FM as a custom page size 14x8 with 3 columns in the text frame. It's to be 
printed duplex and then folded accordian-style. Initially, we were going to be working 
with a professional printer, but now the customers are requiring that we deliver the file 
in PDF format. So far, no big deal, right? Well, when the customers print the PDF of the 
file, it doesn't align properly on the paper. It's as if the printer is adding an 
additional 1/4 margin to the top (long) edge if it's printed directly from FM. If 
we create the PDF file first and THEN print the PDF on the same printer, there seems to 
be an additional margin added to both the long and short edges (top and left).

  I'm assuming these odd results are due to the printer drivers involved. In light of the 
fact that we cannot know what printers our customers might use, is there any way that we 
can make some settings in the PDF Setup in FM 7.2 or in Distiller 7 that would default 
the printer settings to no margin to get a proper print result?  Otherwise, 
the only thing I know to do is provide a ReadMe file to the customer informing them that 
the file is to be printed on legal paper, but due to variances in printer drivers, we 
cannot guarantee alignment of the layout...?

  Thanks,
  Rene Stephenson

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FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Bodvar Bjorgvinsson]

Hi Rene,

I can only tell you how it is with Acrobat 6.

When one prints a pdf from Acrobat other than the standard set size
(Letter size in the US, A4 in Europe), Acrobat usually does something
of the sort you explain. I have a lot of users that have to be able to
print different sizes, and my solution has been this:

Before you print from Acrobat, you have to go to Acrobat's File >
Print Setup (SHIFT+CTRL+P) and set the size in there. Then and only
then can you expect to print in the normal way (CTRL+P). It seems that
it is not enough to set the settings int the regular Print window.

The downside is that this is something you have to tell your customers
to do, because Adobe did not exactly advertise this clumsiness.
Hopefully this has been solved in later versions of Acrobat.

HTH,

Bodvar Bjorgvinsson

On 5/31/07, Rene Stephenson  wrote:
> All,
>
>   We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape 
> layout. It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8" with 3 columns in the 
> text frame. It's to be printed duplex and then folded accordian-style. 
> Initially, we were going to be working with a professional printer, but now 
> the customers are requiring that we deliver the file in PDF format. So far, 
> no big deal, right? Well, when the customers print the PDF of the file, it 
> doesn't align properly on the paper. It's as if the printer is adding an 
> additional 1/4" margin to the top (long) edge if it's printed directly from 
> FM. If we create the PDF file first and THEN print the PDF on the same 
> printer, there seems to be an additional margin added to both the long and 
> short edges (top and left).
>
>   I'm assuming these odd results are due to the printer drivers involved. In 
> light of the fact that we cannot know what printers our customers might use, 
> is there any way that we can make some settings in the PDF Setup in FM 7.2 or 
> in Distiller 7 that would default the printer settings to "no margin" to get 
> a proper print result?  Otherwise, the only thing I know to do is provide a 
> ReadMe file to the customer informing them that the file is to be printed on 
> legal paper, but due to variances in printer drivers, we cannot guarantee 
> alignment of the layout...?
>
>   Thanks,
>   Rene Stephenson
>
> ___
>
>
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FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Rene Stephenson]

All,
   
  We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape layout. 
It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8 with 3 columns in the text 
frame. It's to be printed duplex and then folded accordian-style. Initially, we 
were going to be working with a professional printer, but now the customers are 
requiring that we deliver the file in PDF format. So far, no big deal, right? 
Well, when the customers print the PDF of the file, it doesn't align properly 
on the paper. It's as if the printer is adding an additional 1/4 margin to the 
top (long) edge if it's printed directly from FM. If we create the PDF file 
first and THEN print the PDF on the same printer, there seems to be an 
additional margin added to both the long and short edges (top and left).
   
  I'm assuming these odd results are due to the printer drivers involved. In 
light of the fact that we cannot know what printers our customers might use, is 
there any way that we can make some settings in the PDF Setup in FM 7.2 or in 
Distiller 7 that would default the printer settings to no margin to get a 
proper print result?  Otherwise, the only thing I know to do is provide a 
ReadMe file to the customer informing them that the file is to be printed on 
legal paper, but due to variances in printer drivers, we cannot guarantee 
alignment of the layout...?
   
  Thanks,
  Rene Stephenson
 
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Re: FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Kenneth C. Benson]

From: Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape
layout. It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8 with 3 columns in the
text frame.


Legal is 8.5x14, not 8x14. Could that be the problem?

You can't really do much about how people print your PDFs. If you give them
a legal size document and they can print on legal paper, there's really
nothing *you* can do to make it not work.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

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Re: FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Art Campbell]

Also, many printer drivers are set to shrink PDFs to fit, so it may be
coming out at 97% or so... Another thing the end user needs to know
about.

Just in passing, the 1/4 inch you mention is likely to be a hardware
limitation where the paper goes along the paper path or is gripped by
part of the mechanism, not a software limitation.

Art

On 5/31/07, Kenneth C. Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape
layout. It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8 with 3 columns in the
text frame.


Legal is 8.5x14, not 8x14. Could that be the problem?

You can't really do much about how people print your PDFs. If you give them
a legal size document and they can print on legal paper, there's really
nothing *you* can do to make it not work.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com



--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
  and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
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Re: FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Rene Stephenson]

Good point, but no - that's my typo. It's set to 14x8.5 - I just got in too 
big of a hurry typing the post.  :-\  SORRY
   
  OK, so an advisory notice of sorts (ReadMe file, popup, etc.) looks like our 
only option...
  
Rene

Kenneth C. Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  From: Rene Stephenson 

 We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape
layout. It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8 with 3 columns in the
text frame.


Legal is 8.5x14, not 8x14. Could that be the problem?

You can't really do much about how people print your PDFs. If you give them
a legal size document and they can print on legal paper, there's really
nothing *you* can do to make it not work.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

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Rene L. Stephenson
eNovative Solutions, Inc.
Business Phone: 678-513-0051
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Kenneth C. Benson]

From: Rene Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   OK, so an advisory notice of sorts (ReadMe file, popup, etc.) looks like
our only option...


Shouldn't be necessary. Your legal size document is no different--in terms
of printing from Acrobat--than anyone else's. If your customers are getting
strange results printing, they should be getting the same strange results
any time they print legal.

Like I said, you can't do anything on your end to make it *not* work.

Probably kind of late at this point, but have you considered letter size?
For me, at least, printing legal size paper is a real PITA. Involves hand
feeding the paper sideways into a special tray. I don't think I even have
any legal size paper right now. I would probably end up shrinking it onto
letter size and putting on my drugstore glasses.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

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Re: FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Rene Stephenson]

Unfortunately, there's just too much info to get it on letter size paper and 
have it meet the minimum font specs...unless it goes to more than 
front-and-back, in which case I am told there are issues with it being included 
as a laminated item attached inside the cover of the product. We actually have 
customers who spec the minimum font size for product documentation -  that's 
the proverbial 500 pound gorilla. Doesn't matter if what they want makes sense 
to the vendor or any other customers...if we want to do business with them, we 
have to give them what they want, the way they spec it. I'm not sure if that's 
an engineering fixation driving the doc spec or what.

Rene

Kenneth C. Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Probably kind of late at this 
point, but have you considered letter size?
For me, at least, printing legal size paper is a real PITA. Involves hand
feeding the paper sideways into a special tray. I don't think I even have
any legal size paper right now. I would probably end up shrinking it onto
letter size and putting on my drugstore glasses.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

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RE: FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Combs, Richard]

Rene Stephenson wrote:

   OK, so an advisory notice of sorts (ReadMe file, popup, 
 etc.) looks like our only option...

I have Acro 7, and in the Print dialog, Page Scaling defaults to Fit to
Printer Margins. My default HP printer has unprintable margins of, IIRC,
about .22 inches on the sides, so an 8.5x11 PDF page prints at 96%
unless I remember to change Page Scaling to None. (If anyone knows how
to change the default to None, please share!) If scaling is the problem,
there's nothing you can do except warn your customers about it and how
to avoid it.

But if you have printable content in the unprintable areas of the page,
and the page isn't scaled to fit, the content close to the edge simply
won't be printed. If that's the problem, you'll have to change the page
layout to avoid the unprintable areas. How close to the page edge a
printer can print varies from printer to printer. Plus, some printers
handle paper only by the sides, others grab the top, so the margins may
be different on one axis than the other. To be safe, you'd probably want
to allow at least 1/4 on each edge, maybe a little more. 

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--






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FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Rene Stephenson]

All,

  We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape layout. 
It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8" with 3 columns in the text 
frame. It's to be printed duplex and then folded accordian-style. Initially, we 
were going to be working with a professional printer, but now the customers are 
requiring that we deliver the file in PDF format. So far, no big deal, right? 
Well, when the customers print the PDF of the file, it doesn't align properly 
on the paper. It's as if the printer is adding an additional 1/4" margin to the 
top (long) edge if it's printed directly from FM. If we create the PDF file 
first and THEN print the PDF on the same printer, there seems to be an 
additional margin added to both the long and short edges (top and left).

  I'm assuming these odd results are due to the printer drivers involved. In 
light of the fact that we cannot know what printers our customers might use, is 
there any way that we can make some settings in the PDF Setup in FM 7.2 or in 
Distiller 7 that would default the printer settings to "no margin" to get a 
proper print result?  Otherwise, the only thing I know to do is provide a 
ReadMe file to the customer informing them that the file is to be printed on 
legal paper, but due to variances in printer drivers, we cannot guarantee 
alignment of the layout...?

  Thanks,
  Rene Stephenson

FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Kenneth C. Benson]

From: "Rene Stephenson" 

>  We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape
layout. It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8" with 3 columns in the
text frame.


Legal is 8.5"x14", not 8"x14". Could that be the problem?

You can't really do much about how people print your PDFs. If you give them
a legal size document and they can print on legal paper, there's really
nothing *you* can do to make it not work.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Art Campbell]

Also, many printer drivers are set to shrink PDFs to fit, so it may be
coming out at 97% or so... Another thing the end user needs to know
about.

Just in passing, the 1/4 inch you mention is likely to be a hardware
limitation where the paper goes along the paper path or is gripped by
part of the mechanism, not a software limitation.

Art

On 5/31/07, Kenneth C. Benson  wrote:
> From: "Rene Stephenson" 
>
> >  We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape
> layout. It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8" with 3 columns in the
> text frame.
>
>
> Legal is 8.5"x14", not 8"x14". Could that be the problem?
>
> You can't really do much about how people print your PDFs. If you give them
> a legal size document and they can print on legal paper, there's really
> nothing *you* can do to make it not work.
>
> Kenneth Benson
> Pegasus Type, Inc.
> www.pegtype.com
>

-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Rene Stephenson]

Good point, but no - that's my typo. It's set to 14x8.5" - I just got in too 
big of a hurry typing the post.  :-\  SORRY

  OK, so an advisory notice of sorts (ReadMe file, popup, etc.) looks like our 
only option...

Rene

"Kenneth C. Benson"  wrote:
  From: "Rene Stephenson" 

> We have a quick reference guide that uses a (US) legal-size landscape
layout. It is set up in FM as a custom page size 14x8" with 3 columns in the
text frame.


Legal is 8.5"x14", not 8"x14". Could that be the problem?

You can't really do much about how people print your PDFs. If you give them
a legal size document and they can print on legal paper, there's really
nothing *you* can do to make it not work.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

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Rene L. Stephenson
eNovative Solutions, Inc.
Business Phone: 678-513-0051
Email: rinnie1 at yahoo.com

FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Kenneth C. Benson]

From: "Rene Stephenson" 

>   OK, so an advisory notice of sorts (ReadMe file, popup, etc.) looks like
our only option...


Shouldn't be necessary. Your legal size document is no different--in terms
of printing from Acrobat--than anyone else's. If your customers are getting
strange results printing, they should be getting the same strange results
any time they print legal.

Like I said, you can't do anything on your end to make it *not* work.

Probably kind of late at this point, but have you considered letter size?
For me, at least, printing legal size paper is a real PITA. Involves hand
feeding the paper sideways into a special tray. I don't think I even have
any legal size paper right now. I would probably end up shrinking it onto
letter size and putting on my drugstore glasses.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Combs, Richard]

Rene Stephenson wrote:

>   OK, so an advisory notice of sorts (ReadMe file, popup, 
> etc.) looks like our only option...

I have Acro 7, and in the Print dialog, Page Scaling defaults to Fit to
Printer Margins. My default HP printer has unprintable margins of, IIRC,
about .22 inches on the sides, so an 8.5x11 PDF page prints at 96%
unless I remember to change Page Scaling to None. (If anyone knows how
to change the default to None, please share!) If scaling is the problem,
there's nothing you can do except warn your customers about it and how
to avoid it.

But if you have printable content in the unprintable areas of the page,
and the page isn't scaled to fit, the content close to the edge simply
won't be printed. If that's the problem, you'll have to change the page
layout to avoid the unprintable areas. How close to the page edge a
printer can print varies from printer to printer. Plus, some printers
handle paper only by the sides, others grab the top, so the margins may
be different on one axis than the other. To be safe, you'd probably want
to allow at least 1/4" on each edge, maybe a little more. 

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

FM layout causing inconsistency when printing a PDF?

[Rene Stephenson]

Unfortunately, there's just too much info to get it on letter size paper and 
have it meet the minimum font specs...unless it goes to more than 
front-and-back, in which case I am told there are issues with it being included 
as a laminated item attached inside the cover of the product. We actually have 
customers who spec the minimum font size for product documentation -  that's 
the proverbial 500 pound gorilla. Doesn't matter if what they want makes sense 
to the vendor or any other customers...if we want to do business with them, we 
have to give them what they want, the way they spec it. I'm not sure if that's 
an engineering fixation driving the doc spec or what.

Rene

"Kenneth C. Benson"  wrote:Probably kind of late at 
this point, but have you considered letter size?
For me, at least, printing legal size paper is a real PITA. Involves hand
feeding the paper sideways into a special tray. I don't think I even have
any legal size paper right now. I would probably end up shrinking it onto
letter size and putting on my drugstore glasses.

Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

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