Re: Sourcesafe

[Robert Lauriston]

Microsoft hasn't updated Visual SourceSafe since 2006. Its successor
is Team Foundation Server.

SourceSafe was by far the worst revision control system I ever worked
with. It regularly corrupted things and probably once a month I had to
clean up some sort of mess. Those problems were more common when using
binary files such as FrameMaker documents and images than with source
code, so even if the developer is not having problems, you probably
would.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Denis Daly  wrote:
>
> It has been recommended to me, by my Manager, that I use Sourcesafe to 
> control archiving of all my Framemaker files. Sourcesafe is used by our 
> Software developer to archive his files.
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Re: Sourcesafe

[Art Campbell]

I'd be happy to recommend other source control packages, but if you're on
your own and your company is using SourceSafe, I'd use it even though it's
obsolete and not supported and maybe has those file corruption issues. I
also wouldn't entirely trust it and continue your own backup program.

If you're on your own and just want to CYA, I'd use and recommend DropBox,
and even recommend that for small departments because it doesn't require
any in-house space, support, or IT connections (assuming you're not already
in a high security environment and can reach the 'net). Bonuses are that
it's simple and pretty bulletproof. It does cost something like $40 a year
for the source control archive feature, but well worth it.

If you want to set up a system in house, which I'd shy away from, SVN is
pretty much the gold standard for developers, but it does require a server
and probably IT support. Overkill for anything less than a department,
IMHO. I use Tortoise as the front end to the SVN server; works great. SVN
is like buying IBM equipment -- no one's going to bitch at you for making a
conservative choice with a package that's on the Best Practices list.

Art



Art Campbell
  art.campb...@gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and
a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 6:13 AM, Denis Daly  wrote:

>  HI,
>
>
>
> It has been recommended to me, by my Manager, that I use Sourcesafe to
> control archiving of all my Framemaker files. Sourcesafe is used by our
> Software developer to archive his files.
>
>
>
> Currently, I manually archive on a weekly basis by copying files from my
> local C:\ drive to the company server.
>
>
>
> Thoughts appreciated.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> *Denis Daly*
>
> Technical Writer
>
>
>
> [image: ICPNT Simple Logo White - Small]
>
> *Kilbrittain, Bandon, Co. Cork, IRELAND
> *
>
>
>
> Mobile: +353 86 3539962
>
> Phone:  +353 21 2439119/140
>
> Fax:   +353 21 2380559
>
> Info:  www.icpnewtech.com
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com.
>
> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com
> or visit
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com
>
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>
>
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RE: Sourcesafe

[Monique Dietvorst]

Microsoft Visual studios source control  also works with well. You can use Team 
Foundation Server or GIT with that.


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Harding, Dan
Sent: Friday, June 5, 2015 9:16 AM
To: framers
Subject: RE: Sourcesafe

I do something a little more robust, since I potentially want more than just 
one backup or restore point, but we do not have SVN or Git infrastructure here 
at work, and I don't know (or more accurately trust) how well various 
sourcecode versioning systems work with all of the images, fonts, FrameMaker 
files etc.

I use Cobian backup:

http://www.cobiansoft.com/index.htm

It's free backup software that allows scheduling, incremental backups, etc.

I backup my working folder nightly to a central server (which also has its own 
backups), using a 3-week rotation of full backups, meaning that at any given 
time I have 21 nights of backup to be able to access. It's all automated and 
runs in the background without my intervention.

For offsite (cloud) backups, I recommend CrashPlan (think Carbonite on 
steroids):

http://www.code42.com/crashplan/

I use this at home on the single-computer plan (will also back up any attached 
external drives, but not network folders) and with unlimited storage capacity 
and a 1-year subscription it runs $5 a month. It allows you to do both local 
and cloud backups and runs continuously in the background (so it's not 
scheduled like Cobian above; any time a file is changed it is backed up). It 
can be configured to run at various levels of encryption up to 448-bit, so your 
data is fully secure.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 9:49 AM
To: Denis Daly
Cc: framers; framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Sourcesafe

I do similar, but once at end of day just before leaving for the night.

I have a Robocopy batch file that mirrors my working directory on C: to my 
network drive that is backed up by IT every night.  I have a shortcut on my 
desktop that I click, then lock the machine and go home.  It looks similar to 
the following:


--

echo
"***">>
 c:\temp\robocopy.log
robocopy c:\[source directory] \ h:[destination
directory]   /MIR /a-:R /log+:"c:\temp\robocopy.log" /nfl /ndl

--


This copies only the later version of the changed files and deletes the removed 
files. This way I always have a mirror of my working directory and a log of 
what was done.

This has saved my butt a number of times because since I know I have a mirrored 
directory, I can try things on my working directory of files knowing that if I 
don't get the expected results, I can always delete from my C drive and 
download my backup to try again.

The time it takes varies with how many files I've changed...it could go from 10 
files to over 4,000 files, depending on what I've done since the last backup.


John X Posada
AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control & Analytics
| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY
 
 ___ 
 
 
 
 
 
 Phone   
  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874   
 Fax 
  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254
 Email   
  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  
 
 ___ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this if you have
 to! 
 





From:   Denis Daly 
To: framers 
Date:   06/05/2015 06:18 AM
Subject:Sourcesafe
Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



HI,

It has been recommended to me, by my Manager, that I use Sourcesafe to control 
archiving of all my Framemaker files. Sourcesafe is used by our Software 
developer to archive his file

RE: Sourcesafe

[Harding, Dan]

I do something a little more robust, since I potentially want more than just 
one backup or restore point, but we do not have SVN or Git infrastructure here 
at work, and I don't know (or more accurately trust) how well various 
sourcecode versioning systems work with all of the images, fonts, FrameMaker 
files etc.

I use Cobian backup:

http://www.cobiansoft.com/index.htm

It's free backup software that allows scheduling, incremental backups, etc.

I backup my working folder nightly to a central server (which also has its own 
backups), using a 3-week rotation of full backups, meaning that at any given 
time I have 21 nights of backup to be able to access. It's all automated and 
runs in the background without my intervention.

For offsite (cloud) backups, I recommend CrashPlan (think Carbonite on 
steroids):

http://www.code42.com/crashplan/

I use this at home on the single-computer plan (will also back up any attached 
external drives, but not network folders) and with unlimited storage capacity 
and a 1-year subscription it runs $5 a month. It allows you to do both local 
and cloud backups and runs continuously in the background (so it's not 
scheduled like Cobian above; any time a file is changed it is backed up). It 
can be configured to run at various levels of encryption up to 448-bit, so your 
data is fully secure.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 9:49 AM
To: Denis Daly
Cc: framers; framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Sourcesafe

I do similar, but once at end of day just before leaving for the night.

I have a Robocopy batch file that mirrors my working directory on C: to my 
network drive that is backed up by IT every night.  I have a shortcut on my 
desktop that I click, then lock the machine and go home.  It looks similar to 
the following:


--

echo
"***">>
 c:\temp\robocopy.log
robocopy c:\[source directory] \ h:[destination
directory]   /MIR /a-:R /log+:"c:\temp\robocopy.log" /nfl /ndl

--


This copies only the later version of the changed files and deletes the removed 
files. This way I always have a mirror of my working directory and a log of 
what was done.

This has saved my butt a number of times because since I know I have a mirrored 
directory, I can try things on my working directory of files knowing that if I 
don't get the expected results, I can always delete from my C drive and 
download my backup to try again.

The time it takes varies with how many files I've changed...it could go from 10 
files to over 4,000 files, depending on what I've done since the last backup.


John X Posada
AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control & Analytics
| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY
 
 ___ 
 
 
 
 
 
 Phone   
  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874   
 Fax 
  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254
 Email   
  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  
 
 ___ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this if you have
 to! 
 





From:   Denis Daly 
To: framers 
Date:   06/05/2015 06:18 AM
Subject:Sourcesafe
Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



HI,

It has been recommended to me, by my Manager, that I use Sourcesafe to control 
archiving of all my Framemaker files. Sourcesafe is used by our Software 
developer to archive his files.

Currently, I manually archive on a weekly basis by copying files from my local 
C:\ drive to the company server.

Thoughts appreciated.

Kind regards,
Denis Daly
Technical Writer

(Embedded image moved to file: pic17867.jpg)ICPNT Simple Logo White - Small 
Kilbrittain, Bandon, Co. Cork, IRELAND

Mobile: +3

Re: Sourcesafe

[john . x . posada]

I do similar, but once at end of day just before leaving for the night.

I have a Robocopy batch file that mirrors my working directory on C: to my
network drive that is backed up by IT every night.  I have a shortcut on my
desktop that I click, then lock the machine and go home.  It looks similar
to the following:


--

echo
"***">>
 c:\temp\robocopy.log
robocopy c:\[source directory] \ h:[destination
directory]   /MIR /a-:R /log+:"c:\temp\robocopy.log" /nfl /ndl

--


This copies only the later version of the changed files and deletes the
removed files. This way I always have a mirror of my working directory and
a log of what was done.

This has saved my butt a number of times because since I know I have a
mirrored directory, I can try things on my working directory of files
knowing that if I don't get the expected results, I can always delete from
my C drive and download my backup to try again.

The time it takes varies with how many files I've changed...it could go
from 10 files to over 4,000 files, depending on what I've done since the
last backup.


John X Posada
AML Syst & Ops Supt Data Analyst | US FCC & RC Systems Control & Analytics
| HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY
 
 ___ 
 
 
 
 
 
 Phone   
  Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: Personal Cellphone - 732-259-2874   
 Fax 
  Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 74809254
 Email   
  john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  
 
 ___ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this if you have
 to! 
 





From:   Denis Daly 
To: framers 
Date:   06/05/2015 06:18 AM
Subject:Sourcesafe
Sent by:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com



HI,

It has been recommended to me, by my Manager, that I use Sourcesafe to
control archiving of all my Framemaker files. Sourcesafe is used by our
Software developer to archive his files.

Currently, I manually archive on a weekly basis by copying files from my
local C:\ drive to the company server.

Thoughts appreciated.

Kind regards,
Denis Daly
Technical Writer

(Embedded image moved to file: pic17867.jpg)ICPNT Simple Logo White - Small
Kilbrittain, Bandon, Co. Cork, IRELAND

Mobile: +353 86 3539962
Phone:  +353 21 2439119/140
Fax:   +353 21 2380559
Info:  www.icpnewtech.com
 ___


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RE: Sourcesafe

[Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)]

Or to Git ... which is even better than SVN.

Z

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Simon BUCH
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 3:34 AM
To: Denis Daly; framers
Subject: Re: Sourcesafe

Making a manual archive is always a good practice - I would advise doing this 
on a twice daily basis so that the files are backed up to a server in a 
different location.

Warning: SourceSafe is a discontinued Microsoft package. Even though SourceSafe 
can handle any type of file, we experienced some corruptions when dealing with 
non-source code, such as document sets, images, etc.  Not good!

Instead, I would recommend switching to use Apache Subversion - AKA: SVN.

// Simon BUCH

On 05/06/2015 10:13, Denis Daly wrote:
HI,

It has been recommended to me, by my Manager, that I use Sourcesafe to control 
archiving of all my Framemaker files. Sourcesafe is used by our Software 
developer to archive his files.

Currently, I manually archive on a weekly basis by copying files from my local 
C:\ drive to the company server.

Thoughts appreciated.


___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

Re: Sourcesafe

[Simon BUCH]

Making a manual archive is always a good practice - I would advise doing 
this on a twice daily basis so that the files are backed up to a server 
in a different location.


Warning: SourceSafe is a discontinued Microsoft package. Even though 
SourceSafe can handle any type of file, we experienced some corruptions 
when dealing with non-source code, such as document sets, images, etc.  
Not good!


Instead, I would recommend switching to use Apache Subversion - AKA: SVN.

// Simon BUCH


On 05/06/2015 10:13, Denis Daly wrote:


HI,

It has been recommended to me, by my Manager, that I use Sourcesafe to 
control archiving of all my Framemaker files. Sourcesafe is used by 
our Software developer to archive his files.


Currently, I manually archive on a weekly basis by copying files from 
my local C:\ drive to the company server.


Thoughts appreciated.





___


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Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

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More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations needed"]

[Grant Hogarth]

I've had no trouble with it, but admit that I've not needed to do
FLA/SWF storage/recovery yet.
Grant 
___
Grant Hogarth 
Equis International - A Reuters Company
ghogarth at Equis.com / Grant.Hogarth at Reuters.com 
Direct: (+1) 801.270.3180   Main Fax: 801.265.3999
URL: www.equis.com  TZ: Mountain (GMT -7)


-Original Message-
From: owner-framers at omsys.com [mailto:owner-fram...@omsys.com] On Behalf
Of Loren R. Elks
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:18 AM
To: framers at frameusers.com; framers at omsys.com
Subject: RE: More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe???
Recommendations needed"]

So Subversion can handle any file type (FLA, SWF, FM, Graphics, etc.)?


Sincerely,
Loren


-Original Message-
From: owner-framers at omsys.com [mailto:owner-fram...@omsys.com] On Behalf
Of hedley.finger at myob.com
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:45 PM
To: framers at frameusers.com; framers at omsys.com
Subject: More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations
needed"]

All:

Thought you might be interested in this summary of Subversion as an
alternative to VSS.

Hedley

<>

More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations needed"]

[hedley.fin...@myob.com]

All:

Thought you might be interested in this summary of Subversion as an 
alternative to VSS.

Hedley

- Forwarded by Hedley Finger/AU/MYOB on 24/04/2006 09:46 AM -


Zhi Qiang Wu 
Sent by: dita-users at yahoogroups.com
20/04/2006 04:30 PM
Please respond to dita-users

To: dita-ot-developer at lists.sourceforge.net, 
dita-users at yahoogroups.com
cc: 
Subject:[dita-users] Proposal for using subversion instead 
of CVS



Dear all, 

Due to some known limitations of CVS, to improve the productivity and 
efficiency of the DITA-OT development process, we are now having a 
proposal to use Subverion instead of CVS as our version control system in 
SourceForge.net. 

Below are some simple introduction about Subversion, would you please help 
to have a review of this proposal and give us some comments about this 
proposal? Any suggestions or comments are welcome! Thank you for your 
kindly support! 


1. About subversion 

Subversion is a free/open-source version control system. The goal of the 
Subversion project is to build a version control system that is a 
compelling replacement for CVS in the open source community. The software 
is released under an Apache/BSD-style open source license. 


2. Subversion's Features 

# Most current CVS features. 
Subversion is meant to be a better CVS, so it has most of CVS's features. 
Generally, Subversion's interface to a particular feature is similar to 
CVS's, except where there's a compelling reason to do otherwise. 

# Directories, renames, and file meta-data are versioned. 
Lack of these features is one of the most common complaints against CVS. 
Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but also 
directories, copies, and renames. It also allows arbitrary metadata 
("properties") to be versioned along with any file or directory, and 
provides a mechanism for versioning the `execute' permission flag on 
files. 

# Commits are truly atomic. 
No part of a commit takes effect until the entire commit has succeeded. 
Revision numbers are per-commit, not per-file; log messages are attached 
to the revision, not stored redundantly as in CVS. 

# Apache network server option, with WebDAV/DeltaV protocol. 
Subversion can use the HTTP-based WebDAV/DeltaV protocol for network 
communications, and the Apache web server to provide repository-side 
network service. This gives Subversion an advantage over CVS in 
interoperability, and provides various key features for free: 
authentication, path-based authorization, wire compression, and basic 
repository browsing. 

# Standalone server option. 
Subversion also offers a standalone server option using a custom protocol 
(not everyone wants to run Apache 2.x). The standalone server can run as 
an inetd service, or in daemon mode, and offers basic authentication and 
authorization. It can also be tunnelled over ssh. 

# Branching and tagging are cheap (constant time) operations 
There is no reason for these operations to be expensive, so they aren't. 

Branches and tags are both implemented in terms of an underlying "copy" 
operation. A copy takes up a small, constant amount of space. Any copy is 
a tag; and if you start committing on a copy, then it's a branch as well. 
(This does away with CVS's "branch-point tagging", by removing the 
distinction that made branch-point tags necessary in the first place.) 

# Natively client/server, layered library design 
Subversion is designed to be client/server from the beginning; thus 
avoiding some of the maintenance problems which have plagued CVS. The code 
is structured as a set of modules with well-defined interfaces, designed 
to be called by other applications. 

# Client/server protocol sends diffs in both directions 
The network protocol uses bandwidth efficiently by transmitting diffs in 
both directions whenever possible (CVS sends diffs from server to client, 
but not client to server). 

# Costs are proportional to change size, not data size 
In general, the time required for a Subversion operation is proportional 
to the size of the changes resulting from that operation, not to the 
absolute size of the project in which the changes are taking place. This 
is a property of the Subversion repository model. 

# Choice of database or plain-file repository implementations 
Repositories can be created with either an embedded database back-end 
(BerkeleyDB) or with normal flat-file back-end, which uses a custom 
format. 

# Versioning of symbolic links 
Unix users can place symbolic links under version control. The links are 
recreated in Unix working copies, but not in win32 working copies. 

# Efficient handling of binary files 
Subversion is equally efficient on binary as on text files, because it 
uses a binary diffing algorithm to transmit and store successive 
revisions. 

# Parseable output 
All output of the Subversion command-line client is carefully designed to 
be both human readable and automatically parseable; s

RE: More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations needed"]

[Grant Hogarth]

I've had no trouble with it, but admit that I've not needed to do
FLA/SWF storage/recovery yet.
Grant 
___
Grant Hogarth 
Equis International - A Reuters Company
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Direct: (+1) 801.270.3180   Main Fax: 801.265.3999
URL: www.equis.com  TZ: Mountain (GMT -7)
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Loren R. Elks
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:18 AM
To: framers@frameusers.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe???
Recommendations needed"]

So Subversion can handle any file type (FLA, SWF, FM, Graphics, etc.)?


Sincerely,
Loren


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:45 PM
To: framers@frameusers.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations
needed"]

All:

Thought you might be interested in this summary of Subversion as an
alternative to VSS.

Hedley

<>
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
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More about Subversion [was "Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations needed"]

[hedley . finger]

All:

Thought you might be interested in this summary of Subversion as an 
alternative to VSS.

Hedley

- Forwarded by Hedley Finger/AU/MYOB on 24/04/2006 09:46 AM -


Zhi Qiang Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20/04/2006 04:30 PM
Please respond to dita-users
 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: 
Subject:[dita-users] Proposal for using subversion instead 
of CVS



Dear all, 

Due to some known limitations of CVS, to improve the productivity and 
efficiency of the DITA-OT development process, we are now having a 
proposal to use Subverion instead of CVS as our version control system in 
SourceForge.net. 

Below are some simple introduction about Subversion, would you please help 
to have a review of this proposal and give us some comments about this 
proposal? Any suggestions or comments are welcome! Thank you for your 
kindly support! 


1. About subversion 

Subversion is a free/open-source version control system. The goal of the 
Subversion project is to build a version control system that is a 
compelling replacement for CVS in the open source community. The software 
is released under an Apache/BSD-style open source license. 


2. Subversion's Features 

# Most current CVS features. 
Subversion is meant to be a better CVS, so it has most of CVS's features. 
Generally, Subversion's interface to a particular feature is similar to 
CVS's, except where there's a compelling reason to do otherwise. 

# Directories, renames, and file meta-data are versioned. 
Lack of these features is one of the most common complaints against CVS. 
Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but also 
directories, copies, and renames. It also allows arbitrary metadata 
("properties") to be versioned along with any file or directory, and 
provides a mechanism for versioning the `execute' permission flag on 
files. 

# Commits are truly atomic. 
No part of a commit takes effect until the entire commit has succeeded. 
Revision numbers are per-commit, not per-file; log messages are attached 
to the revision, not stored redundantly as in CVS. 

# Apache network server option, with WebDAV/DeltaV protocol. 
Subversion can use the HTTP-based WebDAV/DeltaV protocol for network 
communications, and the Apache web server to provide repository-side 
network service. This gives Subversion an advantage over CVS in 
interoperability, and provides various key features for free: 
authentication, path-based authorization, wire compression, and basic 
repository browsing. 

# Standalone server option. 
Subversion also offers a standalone server option using a custom protocol 
(not everyone wants to run Apache 2.x). The standalone server can run as 
an inetd service, or in daemon mode, and offers basic authentication and 
authorization. It can also be tunnelled over ssh. 

# Branching and tagging are cheap (constant time) operations 
There is no reason for these operations to be expensive, so they aren't. 

Branches and tags are both implemented in terms of an underlying "copy" 
operation. A copy takes up a small, constant amount of space. Any copy is 
a tag; and if you start committing on a copy, then it's a branch as well. 
(This does away with CVS's "branch-point tagging", by removing the 
distinction that made branch-point tags necessary in the first place.) 

# Natively client/server, layered library design 
Subversion is designed to be client/server from the beginning; thus 
avoiding some of the maintenance problems which have plagued CVS. The code 
is structured as a set of modules with well-defined interfaces, designed 
to be called by other applications. 

# Client/server protocol sends diffs in both directions 
The network protocol uses bandwidth efficiently by transmitting diffs in 
both directions whenever possible (CVS sends diffs from server to client, 
but not client to server). 

# Costs are proportional to change size, not data size 
In general, the time required for a Subversion operation is proportional 
to the size of the changes resulting from that operation, not to the 
absolute size of the project in which the changes are taking place. This 
is a property of the Subversion repository model. 

# Choice of database or plain-file repository implementations 
Repositories can be created with either an embedded database back-end 
(BerkeleyDB) or with normal flat-file back-end, which uses a custom 
format. 

# Versioning of symbolic links 
Unix users can place symbolic links under version control. The links are 
recreated in Unix working copies, but not in win32 working copies. 

# Efficient handling of binary files 
Subversion is equally efficient on binary as on text files, because it 
uses a binary diffing algorithm to transmit and store successive 
revisions. 

# Parseable output 
All output of the Subversion command-line client is carefully designed to 
be both human readable and automatically parseable; scriptability is a 
high prior

Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations needed.

[hedley . finger]

All:

Marcus wrote:
> If you check in Frame files you are storing a copy of the template
> information every single time you commit. This can chew up your storage
> space fairly quickly.

Visual SourceSafe (VSS) does binary deltas on FrameMaker binary files. 
Template information is not repeated on each check-in.  When one of our 
repositories had reached 4 Gb I thought I would archive then delete all 
versions prior to the most recent and start with a new slimmer repository. 
 After several days' work and lots of anguish, I managed to save about 20 
percent -- scarcely worth the trouble.  That is, the base versions 
constituted 80 percent of the repository and the binary deltas about 20 
percent.

Subversion also stores binary deltas, so you can jam your graphics, FM 
files and Auld Uncle Tom Cobbleigh n'all into your repository.  And it's 
free, client-server (either with WebDav plus Apache, or its own server), 
cross-platform and performs atomic commits of a group check-in, that is, 
if one file fails to check-in the entire group check-in fails (A Good 
Thing).

Regards,
Hedley

--
Hedley Finger
Technical Communications Tools & Processes Specialist
MYOB Australia 
P.O. box 371   Blackburn VIC 3130   Australia
12 Wesley Court   Tally Ho Business Park   East Burwood VIC 3151 Australia

Tel. +61 3 9222 9992 x 7421,   Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558

© MYOB Technology Pty Ltd 2006
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Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations needed.

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:19:56 -0400, "Vorndran, Charles P" <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   At the low end of the price range there's CVS and its intended
>replacement, SubVersion.  These, again are designed for text files but
>they will handle binaries, and their low price may make them very
>attractive, if you have the recommended Linux or Unix server(s) to
>support it.

The DITA folks at IBM just circulated a proposal to use
Subversion.  Here is the description from that proposal:


1. About subversion

Subversion is a free/open-source version control system. The goal of the 
Subversion project is to build a version control system that is a 
compelling replacement for CVS in the open source community. The software 
is released under an Apache/BSD-style open source license. 


2. Subversion's Features

# Most current CVS features.
Subversion is meant to be a better CVS, so it has most of CVS's features. 
Generally, Subversion's interface to a particular feature is similar to 
CVS's, except where there's a compelling reason to do otherwise.

# Directories, renames, and file meta-data are versioned.
Lack of these features is one of the most common complaints against CVS. 
Subversion versions not only file contents and file existence, but also 
directories, copies, and renames. It also allows arbitrary metadata 
("properties") to be versioned along with any file or directory, and 
provides a mechanism for versioning the `execute' permission flag on 
files.

# Commits are truly atomic.
No part of a commit takes effect until the entire commit has succeeded. 
Revision numbers are per-commit, not per-file; log messages are attached 
to the revision, not stored redundantly as in CVS.

# Apache network server option, with WebDAV/DeltaV protocol.
Subversion can use the HTTP-based WebDAV/DeltaV protocol for network 
communications, and the Apache web server to provide repository-side 
network service. This gives Subversion an advantage over CVS in 
interoperability, and provides various key features for free: 
authentication, path-based authorization, wire compression, and basic 
repository browsing.

# Standalone server option.
Subversion also offers a standalone server option using a custom protocol 
(not everyone wants to run Apache 2.x). The standalone server can run as 
an inetd service, or in daemon mode, and offers basic authentication and 
authorization. It can also be tunnelled over ssh.

# Branching and tagging are cheap (constant time) operations
There is no reason for these operations to be expensive, so they aren't.

Branches and tags are both implemented in terms of an underlying "copy" 
operation. A copy takes up a small, constant amount of space. Any copy is 
a tag; and if you start committing on a copy, then it's a branch as well. 
(This does away with CVS's "branch-point tagging", by removing the 
distinction that made branch-point tags necessary in the first place.)

# Natively client/server, layered library design
Subversion is designed to be client/server from the beginning; thus 
avoiding some of the maintenance problems which have plagued CVS. The code 
is structured as a set of modules with well-defined interfaces, designed 
to be called by other applications.

# Client/server protocol sends diffs in both directions
The network protocol uses bandwidth efficiently by transmitting diffs in 
both directions whenever possible (CVS sends diffs from server to client, 
but not client to server).

# Costs are proportional to change size, not data size
In general, the time required for a Subversion operation is proportional 
to the size of the changes resulting from that operation, not to the 
absolute size of the project in which the changes are taking place. This 
is a property of the Subversion repository model.

# Choice of database or plain-file repository implementations
Repositories can be created with either an embedded database back-end 
(BerkeleyDB) or with normal flat-file back-end, which uses a custom 
format.

# Versioning of symbolic links
Unix users can place symbolic links under version control. The links are 
recreated in Unix working copies, but not in win32 working copies.

# Efficient handling of binary files
Subversion is equally efficient on binary as on text files, because it 
uses a binary diffing algorithm to transmit and store successive 
revisions.

# Parseable output
All output of the Subversion command-line client is carefully designed to 
be both human readable and automatically parseable; scriptability is a 
high priority.

# Localized messages
Subversion uses gettext() to display translated error, informational, and 
help messages, based on current locale settings.


3. SVN Limitations

Case Sensitivity in File and Directory Names: The SVN server stores files 
in a way that is case sensitive. That is, a file with the name 'FILE' is 
distinctly separate from a file with the name 'File'. Developers who have 
a potential audience using Operating Systems that are case-i

Re: SourceSafe??? Recommendations needed.

[Marcus Streets]

Vorndran, Charles P wrote:
> Loren,
> 
> SourceSafe will certainly handle the file types you mentioned and
> virtually any others that you didn't.  The characteristic of most
> version control systems of this type is that they're really designed to
> store text files efficiently, and binary files, like those that you
> mentioned, are an afterthought.  With text files, only the differences
> are stored after the initial creation, and you can compare any two
> versions and visually see the differences.  With binary files, the
> system must store the complete file for each new version because there
> is no way for them to identify the differences.  This makes storage of
> binary file versions a lot bulkier than storage of text files versions.
> Source safe will compare two binary files and only tell you that they
> are different, no more.  Keep in mind that these source control systems
> were really designed for developers to use to store their ascii source
> code files.
> 
> Microsoft introduced Team System about a year ago.  It's designed to
> handle more concurrent users and has more features.  SourceSafe does
> have limitations in the concurrent user area but we have about 20 or 30
> developers on a Sourcesafe system and don't seem to have a problem, but
> then they're not all accessing the system at the same time.  I suspect
> that with Team System, Microsoft might retire Source Safe in the future,
> but I haven't seen anything in that regard.
> 
> Other systems to look at are:
>   ClearCase from Rational/IBM is an excellent tool for this and
> handles many users.
>   Documentum is a document storage system, based on Oracle.  The
> desktop client gives the look and feel of using Windows Explorer, with
> all the drag 'n drop, copy, etc features that Windows users are
> accustomed to.
>   At the low end of the price range there's CVS and its intended
> replacement, SubVersion.  These, again are designed for text files but
> they will handle binaries, and their low price may make them very
> attractive, if you have the recommended Linux or Unix server(s) to
> support it.
> 

CVS very long in the tooth and unless you have developers who are wedded
to it - do not go there - for binary files it really does nto help you.

SubVersion is a little newer and shinier.

Though personally I like the look of git - another such tool developed
for tracking changes in the Linux kernel source. This is excellent if
you have a large number of developers.

One question - why are you checking FM files into source control.

Could you track XML source for your FM documents.
XML being text is much better suited to tracking by source code systems
- and will take up a lot less disk.

You will still want to have your templates under source code control as
binary files - but hopefully these change less often than the content.

If you check in Frame files you are storing a copy of the template
information every single time you commit. This can chew up your storage
space fairly quickly.

Marcus


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