RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-11 Thread Dov Isaacs 
The last version of Acrobat to have the "13 base fonts" was Acrobat 3;
They were not shipped with any newer version of Acrobat.

- Dov

> -Original Message-
> From: Jacob Schäffer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:33 PM
>
> Dov said:
>
>  default won't solve the
> problem since Times is not a native font of the Distiller.>
>
> I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
> actually have the Base 13
> font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x Helvetica, 4 x Courier and 
> Symbol).
>
> I'm unsure about licensing, though, especially if you upgraded from Acrobat 
> 3. In case of *upgrade*
> the newer license agreement may supersede the older version license, and 
> since the base 13 fonts was
> removed from 4 (or 5, I'm unsure which version, actually) your current 
> license agreement may not cover
> use of the old version fonts.
>
> Dov, what is correct here ???
>
> Best regards
> Jacob Schäffer
> Grafikhuset
> Denmark
>
>
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Dov Isaacs
> > Sendt: 10. september 2008 21:19
> > Til: Art Campbell; Inbar, Paul
> > Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Emne: RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing
> > printers, etc.
> >
> >
> > The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows
> > "phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by
> > standard Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows
> > printer drivers to insert font information to be passed back
> > to the application even if such fonts are not actually
> > installed on the system. PostScript printer drivers (and
> > specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000,
> > XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file -
> > for Adobe PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136
> > fonts! PCL drivers often enumerate fonts built into the printer.
> >
> > If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document
> > and the font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you
> > have set as the current print device, Windows will substitute
> > something on the screen and your output will use the printer
> > version of that font.
> >
> > The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years
> > (first documented as part of a workaround for the infamous
> > Zapf Dingbats problem - see
> > <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.ef4dc7a>) is to edit all
> > PostScript printer PPD files, either prior to doing a
> > PostScript printer driver instance installation or afterwards
> > (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL font references except one
> > - you must keep the line that defines Courier. Once such an
> > edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates
> > printer-resident, i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.
> >
> > Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration
> > (such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat)
> > aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!
> >
> > Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe
> > PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is
> > not a native font of the Distiller.
> >
> > If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:
> >
> > (1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents
> > and templates
> > to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in
> > fact a different font than "Times" although Microsoft (via
> > Monotype) endeavored to keep the "set widths" of the
> > characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times to
> > minimize the chance of line ending differences.
> >
> > (2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe
> > PostScript, it came with
> > a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident
> > fonts. You can install the fonts you need from that CD onto
> > your computer.
> >
> > (3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times
> > from Adobe or
> > with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType
> > version, Times LT Std and install that font on your system.
> >
> > - Dov
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Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-11 Thread Dov Isaacs 
The last version of Acrobat to have the "13 base fonts" was Acrobat 3;
They were not shipped with any newer version of Acrobat.

- Dov

> -Original Message-
> From: Jacob Sch?ffer [mailto:js at grafikhuset.dk]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:33 PM
>
> Dov said:
>
>  default won't solve the
> problem since Times is not a native font of the Distiller.>
>
> I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
> actually have the Base 13
> font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x Helvetica, 4 x Courier and 
> Symbol).
>
> I'm unsure about licensing, though, especially if you upgraded from Acrobat 
> 3. In case of *upgrade*
> the newer license agreement may supersede the older version license, and 
> since the base 13 fonts was
> removed from 4 (or 5, I'm unsure which version, actually) your current 
> license agreement may not cover
> use of the old version fonts.
>
> Dov, what is correct here ???
>
> Best regards
> Jacob Sch?ffer
> Grafikhuset
> Denmark
>
>
> > -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> > Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af Dov Isaacs
> > Sendt: 10. september 2008 21:19
> > Til: Art Campbell; Inbar, Paul
> > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> > Emne: RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing
> > printers, etc.
> >
> >
> > The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows
> > "phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by
> > standard Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows
> > printer drivers to insert font information to be passed back
> > to the application even if such fonts are not actually
> > installed on the system. PostScript printer drivers (and
> > specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000,
> > XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file -
> > for Adobe PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136
> > fonts! PCL drivers often enumerate fonts built into the printer.
> >
> > If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document
> > and the font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you
> > have set as the current print device, Windows will substitute
> > something on the screen and your output will use the printer
> > version of that font.
> >
> > The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years
> > (first documented as part of a workaround for the infamous
> > Zapf Dingbats problem - see
> > <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.ef4dc7a>) is to edit all
> > PostScript printer PPD files, either prior to doing a
> > PostScript printer driver instance installation or afterwards
> > (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL font references except one
> > - you must keep the line that defines Courier. Once such an
> > edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates
> > printer-resident, i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.
> >
> > Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration
> > (such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat)
> > aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!
> >
> > Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe
> > PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is
> > not a native font of the Distiller.
> >
> > If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:
> >
> > (1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents
> > and templates
> > to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in
> > fact a different font than "Times" although Microsoft (via
> > Monotype) endeavored to keep the "set widths" of the
> > characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times to
> > minimize the chance of line ending differences.
> >
> > (2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe
> > PostScript, it came with
> > a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident
> > fonts. You can install the fonts you need from that CD onto
> > your computer.
> >
> > (3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times
> > from Adobe or
> > with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType
> > version, Times LT Std and install that font on your system.
> >
> > - Dov

SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-11 Thread Jim Owens 
The Times font also came with Xerox Ventura Publisher.

Jacob Sch?ffer wrote:
> Dov said:
> 
>  default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the 
> Distiller.>
> 
> I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
> actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
> Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).
>

SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-11 Thread Jacob Schäffer 
Dov said:



I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).

I'm unsure about licensing, though, especially if you upgraded from Acrobat 3. 
In case of *upgrade* the newer license agreement may supersede the older 
version license, and since the base 13 fonts was removed from 4 (or 5, I'm 
unsure which version, actually) your current license agreement may not cover 
use of the old version fonts.

Dov, what is correct here ???

Best regards
Jacob Sch?ffer
Grafikhuset
Denmark


> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] P? vegne af Dov Isaacs
> Sendt: 10. september 2008 21:19
> Til: Art Campbell; Inbar, Paul
> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Emne: RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing 
> printers, etc.
> 
> 
> The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows 
> "phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by 
> standard Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows 
> printer drivers to insert font information to be passed back 
> to the application even if such fonts are not actually 
> installed on the system. PostScript printer drivers (and 
> specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000, 
> XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file - 
> for Adobe PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136 
> fonts! PCL drivers often enumerate fonts built into the printer.
> 
> If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document 
> and the font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you 
> have set as the current print device, Windows will substitute 
> something on the screen and your output will use the printer 
> version of that font.
> 
> The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years 
> (first documented as part of a workaround for the infamous 
> Zapf Dingbats problem - see
> <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.ef4dc7a>) is to edit all 
> PostScript printer PPD files, either prior to doing a 
> PostScript printer driver instance installation or afterwards 
> (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL font references except one 
> - you must keep the line that defines Courier. Once such an 
> edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates 
> printer-resident, i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.
> 
> Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration 
> (such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat) 
> aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!
> 
> Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe 
> PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is 
> not a native font of the Distiller.
> 
> If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:
> 
> (1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents 
> and templates
> to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in 
> fact a different font than "Times" although Microsoft (via 
> Monotype) endeavored to keep the "set widths" of the 
> characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times to 
> minimize the chance of line ending differences.
> 
> (2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe 
> PostScript, it came with
> a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident 
> fonts. You can install the fonts you need from that CD onto 
> your computer.
> 
> (3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times 
> from Adobe or
> with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType 
> version, Times LT Std and install that font on your system.
> 
> - Dov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Art Campbell
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:11 AM
> >
> > The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, 
> from your 
> > description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still 
> and extra 
> > item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the 
> > default page description language.
> >
> > Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the 
> > best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF 
> logical printer 
> > as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to 
> > default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the 
> Adobe Acrobat 
> > default is likely to solve your font problem too, because 
> it is likely 
> > to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008

Re: SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-11 Thread Jim Owens 
The Times font also came with Xerox Ventura Publisher.

Jacob Schäffer wrote:
> Dov said:
> 
>  default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the 
> Distiller.>
> 
> I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
> actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
> Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).
> 


___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SV: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Jacob Schäffer 
Dov said:



I believe that anyone old enough (like me) to own a license to Distiller 3 
actually have the Base 13 font files in Type 1 format handy (4 x Times, 4 x 
Helvetica, 4 x Courier and Symbol).

I'm unsure about licensing, though, especially if you upgraded from Acrobat 3. 
In case of *upgrade* the newer license agreement may supersede the older 
version license, and since the base 13 fonts was removed from 4 (or 5, I'm 
unsure which version, actually) your current license agreement may not cover 
use of the old version fonts.

Dov, what is correct here ???

Best regards
Jacob Schäffer
Grafikhuset
Denmark


> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Dov Isaacs
> Sendt: 10. september 2008 21:19
> Til: Art Campbell; Inbar, Paul
> Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Emne: RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing 
> printers, etc.
> 
> 
> The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows 
> "phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by 
> standard Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows 
> printer drivers to insert font information to be passed back 
> to the application even if such fonts are not actually 
> installed on the system. PostScript printer drivers (and 
> specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000, 
> XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file - 
> for Adobe PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136 
> fonts! PCL drivers often enumerate fonts built into the printer.
> 
> If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document 
> and the font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you 
> have set as the current print device, Windows will substitute 
> something on the screen and your output will use the printer 
> version of that font.
> 
> The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years 
> (first documented as part of a workaround for the infamous 
> Zapf Dingbats problem - see
> <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.ef4dc7a>) is to edit all 
> PostScript printer PPD files, either prior to doing a 
> PostScript printer driver instance installation or afterwards 
> (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL font references except one 
> - you must keep the line that defines Courier. Once such an 
> edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates 
> printer-resident, i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.
> 
> Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration 
> (such as Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat) 
> aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!
> 
> Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe 
> PDF) printer default won't solve the problem since Times is 
> not a native font of the Distiller.
> 
> If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:
> 
> (1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents 
> and templates
> to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in 
> fact a different font than "Times" although Microsoft (via 
> Monotype) endeavored to keep the "set widths" of the 
> characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times to 
> minimize the chance of line ending differences.
> 
> (2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe 
> PostScript, it came with
> a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident 
> fonts. You can install the fonts you need from that CD onto 
> your computer.
> 
> (3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times 
> from Adobe or
> with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType 
> version, Times LT Std and install that font on your system.
> 
> - Dov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Art Campbell
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:11 AM
> >
> > The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, 
> from your 
> > description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still 
> and extra 
> > item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the 
> > default page description language.
> >
> > Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the 
> > best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF 
> logical printer 
> > as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to 
> > default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the 
> Adobe Acrobat 
> > default is likely to solve your font problem too, because 
> it is likely 
> > to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>

Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Inbar, Paul 
Hi all,

Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been looking
at previous posts and articles on the web, but am still not sure I
understand the issues and consequences.

Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our regular
Body paragraph tag.

On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be fine. However,
they are going to be taken offline in a few weeks. 

Recently, a new HP network printer was installed. When I made the HP
printer the default printer and opened up one of our documents, I got
the "Document named aaa.fm uses unavailable fonts. To reformat using
available fonts, click OK" message. I opened the doc. Times appeared
checked but greyed out in the right-click context menu. I printed on the
HP. The printout looks identical, as far as I can tell, to the same doc
printed on the xerox. I saved and closed, when I opened again, I got the
same unavailable fonts message. When I make the Xerox printer the
default once again, and open the document, I don't get the unavailable
fonts message, and Times is once again black in the right-click font
context menu.

I looked around my system, in all the folders I saw mentioned in various
sites, but didn't find Times anywhere. In the PDD file for the Xerox
printer there is a line that has Times on it. The printer support people
printed out the list of fonts on the HP. It doesn't appear to have
Times.

Now, I have several questions. I realize that it may not be possible to
know exactly from this description what is going on, but I welcome
guesses.

Does it sound like I don't really have Times on my system, but
Framemaker acts like Times is there when the Xerox is the selected
printer because the Xerox has it?

If the HP doesn't have it, what are the consequences of that? Which font
did it use? Does it decide itself what is most compatible? It doesn't
seem to have changed anything in my document. When I go back to the
Xerox, Times seems ok again. Will the unavailable fonts message
interfere with smooth updating of the book?

What is the best course of action to take: 

Try to buy Times somewhere? (Or rather, try to convince my organization
to buy Times somewhere)
Change my templates to use Times New Roman?
Just live with the unavailable fonts message?

It once seemed to me that Times New Roman was a bit more crowded than
Times. That's why I always resisted Times New Roman. Is the difference
just a figment of my imagination? Also, is there a difference in
appearance between Times Roman and Times New Roman?

In short, any information would be appreciated, and will help me to
communicate to the printer support people in my organization what the
issues are. Right now they just regard me as the troublemaker who uses
Framemaker...

Thanks,
Paul




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Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Combs, Richard 
Art Campbell wrote: 

> The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, from your
> description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still and extra
> item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the
> default page description language.

Actually, HP printers use PCL (Printer Control Language) by default
(plotters use HPGL). Here's a comparison of PostScript and PCL from HP
(some pro-PCL bias should be assumed): 

http://tinyurl.com/57zs8v

> Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the
> best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF logical printer
> as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to
> default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the Adobe Acrobat
> default is likely to solve your font problem too, because it is likely
> to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.

The setup suggestion is a good idea. The plugin is SetPrint from
Sundorne Communications:

http://www.sundorne.com/FrameMaker/Freeware/setPrint.htm

But Art is exactly wrong about the font problem. With a Xerox PostScript
printer as your FM printer, you have access to the PostScript fonts that
reside on the printer (typically, PS printers have the "standard 35" PS
fonts). When you switch to Acrobat as your printer, you'll only have
available the fonts that are actually installed on your computer. Unless
you've purchased and installed a package like Adobe Type Basics, you
probably won't have all the fonts you've been used to using because
they're on your printer. 

OTOH, you shouldn't be using fonts that aren't on your PC -- you can't
embed them in your PDFs, so if you release those, your readers are
seeing some ugly font substitutions. 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Combs, Richard 
Art Campbell wrote: 
 
> The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, from your
> description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still and extra
> item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the
> default page description language.

Actually, HP printers use PCL (Printer Control Language) by default
(plotters use HPGL). Here's a comparison of PostScript and PCL from HP
(some pro-PCL bias should be assumed): 

http://tinyurl.com/57zs8v
 
> Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the
> best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF logical printer
> as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to
> default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the Adobe Acrobat
> default is likely to solve your font problem too, because it is likely
> to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.

The setup suggestion is a good idea. The plugin is SetPrint from
Sundorne Communications:

http://www.sundorne.com/FrameMaker/Freeware/setPrint.htm

But Art is exactly wrong about the font problem. With a Xerox PostScript
printer as your FM printer, you have access to the PostScript fonts that
reside on the printer (typically, PS printers have the "standard 35" PS
fonts). When you switch to Acrobat as your printer, you'll only have
available the fonts that are actually installed on your computer. Unless
you've purchased and installed a package like Adobe Type Basics, you
probably won't have all the fonts you've been used to using because
they're on your printer. 

OTOH, you shouldn't be using fonts that aren't on your PC -- you can't
embed them in your PDFs, so if you release those, your readers are
seeing some ugly font substitutions. 

HTH!
Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--





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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

RE: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Dov Isaacs 
The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows
"phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by standard
Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows printer drivers to
insert font information to be passed back to the application even if
such fonts are not actually installed on the system. PostScript printer
drivers (and specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000,
XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file - for Adobe
PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136 fonts! PCL drivers often
enumerate fonts built into the printer.

If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document and the
font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you have set as the
current print device, Windows will substitute something on the screen
and your output will use the printer version of that font.

The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years (first documented
as part of a workaround for the infamous Zapf Dingbats problem - see
) is to edit all PostScript
printer PPD files, either prior to doing a PostScript printer driver
instance installation or afterwards (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL
font references except one - you must keep the line that defines Courier.
Once such an edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates printer-resident,
i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.

Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration (such as Illustrator,
Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat) aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!

Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe PDF) printer
default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the
Distiller.

If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:

(1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents and templates
to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in fact a different
font than "Times" although Microsoft (via Monotype) endeavored to keep the
"set widths" of the characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times
to minimize the chance of line ending differences.

(2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe PostScript, it came with
a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident fonts. You
can install the fonts you need from that CD onto your computer.

(3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times from Adobe or
with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType version,
Times LT Std and install that font on your system.

- Dov




> -Original Message-
> From: Art Campbell
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:11 AM
>
> The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, from your
> description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still and extra
> item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the
> default page description language.
>
> Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the
> best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF logical printer
> as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to
> default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the Adobe Acrobat
> default is likely to solve your font problem too, because it is likely
> to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.
>
> Art
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been looking
> > at previous posts and articles on the web, but am still not sure I
> > understand the issues and consequences.
> >
> > Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our regular
> > Body paragraph tag.
> >
> > On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be fine. However,
> > they are going to be taken offline in a few weeks.
> >
> > Recently, a new HP network printer was installed. When I made the HP
> > printer the default printer and opened up one of our documents, I got
> > the "Document named aaa.fm uses unavailable fonts. To reformat using
> > available fonts, click OK" message. I opened the doc. Times appeared
> > checked but greyed out in the right-click context menu. I printed on the
> > HP. The printout looks identical, as far as I can tell, to the same doc
> > printed on the xerox. I saved and closed, when I opened again, I got the
> > same unavailable fonts message. When I make the Xerox printer the
> > default once again, and open the document, I don't get the unavailable
> > fonts message, and Times is once again black in the right-click font
> > context menu.
> >
> > I looked around my system, in all the folders I saw mentioned in various
> > sites, but didn't find Times anywhere. In the PDD file for the Xerox
> > printer there is a line that has Times on it. The printer support people
> > printed out the list of fonts on the HP. It doesn't appear to have
> > Times.
> >
> > Now, I have several questions. I realize that it may not be pos

Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Dov Isaacs 
The original problem reported by Paul stems from the Windows
"phantom phont phenomena!" Windows font enumeration, used by standard
Windows applications (such as FrameMaker), allows printer drivers to
insert font information to be passed back to the application even if
such fonts are not actually installed on the system. PostScript printer
drivers (and specifically, the standard PSCRIPT5 driver of Windows 2000,
XP, and Vista) enumerates all fonts found in the PPD file - for Adobe
PostScript 3 devices, this could be up to 136 fonts! PCL drivers often
enumerate fonts built into the printer.

If you actually try to use a phantom phont in your document and the
font is indeed printer-resident for the printer you have set as the
current print device, Windows will substitute something on the screen
and your output will use the printer version of that font.

The workaround that I have advocated for over seven years (first documented
as part of a workaround for the infamous Zapf Dingbats problem - see
) is to edit all PostScript
printer PPD files, either prior to doing a PostScript printer driver
instance installation or afterwards (both are tricky) to eliminate ALL
font references except one - you must keep the line that defines Courier.
Once such an edit is made, the driver no longer enumerates printer-resident,
i.e., phantom, fonts to application programs.

Note that applications that bypass the OS font enumeration (such as Illustrator,
Photoshop, InDesign, and Acrobat) aren't phooled by the phantom phont phenomena!

Per Art's response, no, moving to the Adobe Acrobat (Adobe PDF) printer
default won't solve the problem since Times is not a native font of the
Distiller.

If you really want/need Times, you have the following options:

(1) Change all occurrences of "Times" in your documents and templates
to "Times New Roman" remembering that "Times New Roman" is in fact a different
font than "Times" although Microsoft (via Monotype) endeavored to keep the
"set widths" of the characters in Times New Roman the same as those of Times
to minimize the chance of line ending differences.

(2) If you have a Xerox printer that uses Adobe PostScript, it came with
a CD or DVD with host-based versions of the printer resident fonts. You
can install the fonts you need from that CD onto your computer.

(3) You can license either the Type 1 version of Times from Adobe or
with changes to your document for the font name, the OpenType version,
Times LT Std and install that font on your system.

- Dov




> -Original Message-
> From: Art Campbell
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:11 AM
>
> The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, from your
> description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still and extra
> item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the
> default page description language.
>
> Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the
> best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF logical printer
> as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to
> default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the Adobe Acrobat
> default is likely to solve your font problem too, because it is likely
> to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.
>
> Art
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been looking
> > at previous posts and articles on the web, but am still not sure I
> > understand the issues and consequences.
> >
> > Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our regular
> > Body paragraph tag.
> >
> > On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be fine. However,
> > they are going to be taken offline in a few weeks.
> >
> > Recently, a new HP network printer was installed. When I made the HP
> > printer the default printer and opened up one of our documents, I got
> > the "Document named aaa.fm uses unavailable fonts. To reformat using
> > available fonts, click OK" message. I opened the doc. Times appeared
> > checked but greyed out in the right-click context menu. I printed on the
> > HP. The printout looks identical, as far as I can tell, to the same doc
> > printed on the xerox. I saved and closed, when I opened again, I got the
> > same unavailable fonts message. When I make the Xerox printer the
> > default once again, and open the document, I don't get the unavailable
> > fonts message, and Times is once again black in the right-click font
> > context menu.
> >
> > I looked around my system, in all the folders I saw mentioned in various
> > sites, but didn't find Times anywhere. In the PDD file for the Xerox
> > printer there is a line that has Times on it. The printer support people
> > printed out the list of fonts on the HP. It doesn't appear to have
> > Times.
> >
> > Now, I have several questions. I realize that it may not be possible to
> > know e

Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Art Campbell 
The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, from your
description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still and extra
item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the
default page description language.

Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the
best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF logical printer
as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to
default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the Adobe Acrobat
default is likely to solve your font problem too, because it is likely
to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.

Art

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been looking
> at previous posts and articles on the web, but am still not sure I
> understand the issues and consequences.
>
> Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our regular
> Body paragraph tag.
>
> On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be fine. However,
> they are going to be taken offline in a few weeks.
>
> Recently, a new HP network printer was installed. When I made the HP
> printer the default printer and opened up one of our documents, I got
> the "Document named aaa.fm uses unavailable fonts. To reformat using
> available fonts, click OK" message. I opened the doc. Times appeared
> checked but greyed out in the right-click context menu. I printed on the
> HP. The printout looks identical, as far as I can tell, to the same doc
> printed on the xerox. I saved and closed, when I opened again, I got the
> same unavailable fonts message. When I make the Xerox printer the
> default once again, and open the document, I don't get the unavailable
> fonts message, and Times is once again black in the right-click font
> context menu.
>
> I looked around my system, in all the folders I saw mentioned in various
> sites, but didn't find Times anywhere. In the PDD file for the Xerox
> printer there is a line that has Times on it. The printer support people
> printed out the list of fonts on the HP. It doesn't appear to have
> Times.
>
> Now, I have several questions. I realize that it may not be possible to
> know exactly from this description what is going on, but I welcome
> guesses.
>
> Does it sound like I don't really have Times on my system, but
> Framemaker acts like Times is there when the Xerox is the selected
> printer because the Xerox has it?
>
> If the HP doesn't have it, what are the consequences of that? Which font
> did it use? Does it decide itself what is most compatible? It doesn't
> seem to have changed anything in my document. When I go back to the
> Xerox, Times seems ok again. Will the unavailable fonts message
> interfere with smooth updating of the book?
>
> What is the best course of action to take:
>
> Try to buy Times somewhere? (Or rather, try to convince my organization
> to buy Times somewhere)
> Change my templates to use Times New Roman?
> Just live with the unavailable fonts message?
>
> It once seemed to me that Times New Roman was a bit more crowded than
> Times. That's why I always resisted Times New Roman. Is the difference
> just a figment of my imagination? Also, is there a difference in
> appearance between Times Roman and Times New Roman?
>
> In short, any information would be appreciated, and will help me to
> communicate to the printer support people in my organization what the
> issues are. Right now they just regard me as the troublemaker who uses
> Framemaker...
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> -
> Intel Israel (74) Limited
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> ___
>
>

-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Jim Owens 
My Windows system has Times (Type 1), Times New Roman (Type 1), and 
Times New Roman (TrueType).  The Times font is listed in the Fonts 
window under the name "Times Roman", but when I view it, it is entitled 
"Times (Type 1)".

When you view a font selected from the Fonts window, you see the upper 
and lower case alphabets, the numerics, and a series of sample sentences 
("The quick brown fox. . .") at different font sizes. Here is what I 
observe on my screen (my printer is an HP with simulated Postscript, so 
I'm not relying on the printouts):

The Times (Type 1) alphabet takes the most horizontal space. The Times 
New Roman (OpenType) alphabet takes less space, by about one character 
over the length of the alphabet. The Times New Roman (Type 1) takes the 
least space, by about two characters over the length of the alphabet 
compared to Times.

Notwithstanding this, there is almost no discernible difference in the 
length of the Times (Type1) and Times New Roman (Type 1) sample 
sentences, while the Times New Roman (OpenType) sample sentences are 
about two characters shorter over the length (the "0" falls roughly 
under the "8" of the other two).

The leading between the sample sentences differs. The samples in Times 
(Type 1) take the least vertical space. The Times New Roman (OpenType) 
samples take more (the top of the 72pt "T" aligns roughly with the top 
of the Times 72pt "e"), and the Times New Roman (Type 1) takes the most 
(the top of the 72pt "T" is just a little higher than the horizontal 
line in the Times 72pt "e").

The Times (Type1) face has the largest x-height. The other two have the 
same x-height, as far as I can tell. The contrast between the thick and 
thin portions of the letters is greatest for Times, less for Times New 
Roman (Type1), and least for Times New Roman (OpenType).

My overall impression is that Times (Type1) is the easiest font to read 
at 12pt. If I may veer into completely qualitative analysis, it has a 
traditional, rather calm feeling. The Times New Roman (Type1) has a more 
efficient, urgent feeling, and is slightly less legible. The Times New 
Roman (OpenType) is the least pleasant font; it has a cramped feeling.

Hope this helps.






> 
> In short, any information would be appreciated, and will help me to
> communicate to the printer support people in my organization what the
> issues are. Right now they just regard me as the troublemaker who uses
> Framemaker...
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
>

Re: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Art Campbell 
The Xerox drive is probably PostScript compliant, the H-P, from your
description, is probably not. So far as I know. PS is still and extra
item on most H-P systems, which means that they use HPGL as the
default page description language.

Depending on your final output, many shops and users find that the
best setup is to standardize on the Adobe Acrobat PDF logical printer
as the system (of Frame -- there's a plug in that lets it be set to
default only within FM) default printer. Moving to the Adobe Acrobat
default is likely to solve your font problem too, because it is likely
to use the same fonts as the Xeros does.

Art

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Inbar, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been looking
> at previous posts and articles on the web, but am still not sure I
> understand the issues and consequences.
>
> Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our regular
> Body paragraph tag.
>
> On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be fine. However,
> they are going to be taken offline in a few weeks.
>
> Recently, a new HP network printer was installed. When I made the HP
> printer the default printer and opened up one of our documents, I got
> the "Document named aaa.fm uses unavailable fonts. To reformat using
> available fonts, click OK" message. I opened the doc. Times appeared
> checked but greyed out in the right-click context menu. I printed on the
> HP. The printout looks identical, as far as I can tell, to the same doc
> printed on the xerox. I saved and closed, when I opened again, I got the
> same unavailable fonts message. When I make the Xerox printer the
> default once again, and open the document, I don't get the unavailable
> fonts message, and Times is once again black in the right-click font
> context menu.
>
> I looked around my system, in all the folders I saw mentioned in various
> sites, but didn't find Times anywhere. In the PDD file for the Xerox
> printer there is a line that has Times on it. The printer support people
> printed out the list of fonts on the HP. It doesn't appear to have
> Times.
>
> Now, I have several questions. I realize that it may not be possible to
> know exactly from this description what is going on, but I welcome
> guesses.
>
> Does it sound like I don't really have Times on my system, but
> Framemaker acts like Times is there when the Xerox is the selected
> printer because the Xerox has it?
>
> If the HP doesn't have it, what are the consequences of that? Which font
> did it use? Does it decide itself what is most compatible? It doesn't
> seem to have changed anything in my document. When I go back to the
> Xerox, Times seems ok again. Will the unavailable fonts message
> interfere with smooth updating of the book?
>
> What is the best course of action to take:
>
> Try to buy Times somewhere? (Or rather, try to convince my organization
> to buy Times somewhere)
> Change my templates to use Times New Roman?
> Just live with the unavailable fonts message?
>
> It once seemed to me that Times New Roman was a bit more crowded than
> Times. That's why I always resisted Times New Roman. Is the difference
> just a figment of my imagination? Also, is there a difference in
> appearance between Times Roman and Times New Roman?
>
> In short, any information would be appreciated, and will help me to
> communicate to the printer support people in my organization what the
> issues are. Right now they just regard me as the troublemaker who uses
> Framemaker...
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> -
> Intel Israel (74) Limited
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
> the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> ___
>
>

-- 
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
___


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Re: Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Jim Owens 
My Windows system has Times (Type 1), Times New Roman (Type 1), and 
Times New Roman (TrueType).  The Times font is listed in the Fonts 
window under the name "Times Roman", but when I view it, it is entitled 
"Times (Type 1)".

When you view a font selected from the Fonts window, you see the upper 
and lower case alphabets, the numerics, and a series of sample sentences 
("The quick brown fox. . .") at different font sizes. Here is what I 
observe on my screen (my printer is an HP with simulated Postscript, so 
I'm not relying on the printouts):

The Times (Type 1) alphabet takes the most horizontal space. The Times 
New Roman (OpenType) alphabet takes less space, by about one character 
over the length of the alphabet. The Times New Roman (Type 1) takes the 
least space, by about two characters over the length of the alphabet 
compared to Times.

Notwithstanding this, there is almost no discernible difference in the 
length of the Times (Type1) and Times New Roman (Type 1) sample 
sentences, while the Times New Roman (OpenType) sample sentences are 
about two characters shorter over the length (the "0" falls roughly 
under the "8" of the other two).

The leading between the sample sentences differs. The samples in Times 
(Type 1) take the least vertical space. The Times New Roman (OpenType) 
samples take more (the top of the 72pt "T" aligns roughly with the top 
of the Times 72pt "e"), and the Times New Roman (Type 1) takes the most 
(the top of the 72pt "T" is just a little higher than the horizontal 
line in the Times 72pt "e").

The Times (Type1) face has the largest x-height. The other two have the 
same x-height, as far as I can tell. The contrast between the thick and 
thin portions of the letters is greatest for Times, less for Times New 
Roman (Type1), and least for Times New Roman (OpenType).

My overall impression is that Times (Type1) is the easiest font to read 
at 12pt. If I may veer into completely qualitative analysis, it has a 
traditional, rather calm feeling. The Times New Roman (Type1) has a more 
efficient, urgent feeling, and is slightly less legible. The Times New 
Roman (OpenType) is the least pleasant font; it has a cramped feeling.

Hope this helps.






> 
> In short, any information would be appreciated, and will help me to
> communicate to the printer support people in my organization what the
> issues are. Right now they just regard me as the troublemaker who uses
> Framemaker...
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 

___


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Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, and changing printers, etc.

2008-09-10 Thread Inbar, Paul 
Hi all,

Let me apologize for asking another font question. I have been looking
at previous posts and articles on the web, but am still not sure I
understand the issues and consequences.

Basically, our frame templates use a font called Times for our regular
Body paragraph tag.

On our Xerox network printers, everything seems to be fine. However,
they are going to be taken offline in a few weeks. 

Recently, a new HP network printer was installed. When I made the HP
printer the default printer and opened up one of our documents, I got
the "Document named aaa.fm uses unavailable fonts. To reformat using
available fonts, click OK" message. I opened the doc. Times appeared
checked but greyed out in the right-click context menu. I printed on the
HP. The printout looks identical, as far as I can tell, to the same doc
printed on the xerox. I saved and closed, when I opened again, I got the
same unavailable fonts message. When I make the Xerox printer the
default once again, and open the document, I don't get the unavailable
fonts message, and Times is once again black in the right-click font
context menu.

I looked around my system, in all the folders I saw mentioned in various
sites, but didn't find Times anywhere. In the PDD file for the Xerox
printer there is a line that has Times on it. The printer support people
printed out the list of fonts on the HP. It doesn't appear to have
Times.

Now, I have several questions. I realize that it may not be possible to
know exactly from this description what is going on, but I welcome
guesses.

Does it sound like I don't really have Times on my system, but
Framemaker acts like Times is there when the Xerox is the selected
printer because the Xerox has it?

If the HP doesn't have it, what are the consequences of that? Which font
did it use? Does it decide itself what is most compatible? It doesn't
seem to have changed anything in my document. When I go back to the
Xerox, Times seems ok again. Will the unavailable fonts message
interfere with smooth updating of the book?

What is the best course of action to take: 

Try to buy Times somewhere? (Or rather, try to convince my organization
to buy Times somewhere)
Change my templates to use Times New Roman?
Just live with the unavailable fonts message?

It once seemed to me that Times New Roman was a bit more crowded than
Times. That's why I always resisted Times New Roman. Is the difference
just a figment of my imagination? Also, is there a difference in
appearance between Times Roman and Times New Roman?

In short, any information would be appreciated, and will help me to
communicate to the printer support people in my organization what the
issues are. Right now they just regard me as the troublemaker who uses
Framemaker...

Thanks,
Paul




-
Intel Israel (74) Limited

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for
the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution
by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
___


You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To unsubscribe send a blank email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit 
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Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.