subject:"Unicode"

Re: Unicode Character Pallette in Frame 12.3/W8.1

2014-12-21 Thread Robert Lauriston

In my experience, Windows substitutes missing characters from other fonts.

On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Charles Richardson
 wrote:
> I intentionally kept the variables for this issue to a minimum.  The test was 
> with a single font, Arial Unicode MS, installation of which was ensured by 
> creating a sample text string in a test file before attempting to insert 
> special characters into and adjacent to the string.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On 
> Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
> Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 2:17 PM
> To: Charles Richardson; framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: Unicode Character Pallette in Frame 12.3/W8.1
>
> Are you certain you have all the same fonts installed on the second machine?
>
> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Charles Richardson  
> wrote:
>> I use the Character Palette successfully on a W8.1/64-bit machine
>> running
>> FM11 (11.0.2.384) to enter special characters.  No previous problems
>> with FM10.
>> I'm testing the trial version of FM12 (12.0.3.424) on another
>> W8.1/64-bit machine.  When I use the Character Palette to enter the
>> same special characters (same font family), they display as question marks.
>>
>> Is this a known bug with FM12?  Or is there a likely configuration
>> item I've overlooked?  Thanks!
>
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Re: Unicode Character Pallette in Frame 12.3/W8.1

2014-12-21 Thread Robert Lauriston

Are you certain you have all the same fonts installed on the second machine?

On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Charles Richardson
 wrote:
> I use the Character Palette successfully on a W8.1/64-bit machine running
> FM11 (11.0.2.384) to enter special characters.  No previous problems with
> FM10.
> I'm testing the trial version of FM12 (12.0.3.424) on another W8.1/64-bit
> machine.  When I use the Character Palette to enter the same special
> characters (same font family), they display as question marks.
>
> Is this a known bug with FM12?  Or is there a likely configuration item I've
> overlooked?  Thanks!
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Unicode Character Pallette in Frame 12.3/W8.1

2014-12-21 Thread Charles Richardson

I use the Character Palette successfully on a W8.1/64-bit machine running
FM11 (11.0.2.384) to enter special characters.  No previous problems with
FM10.
I'm testing the trial version of FM12 (12.0.3.424) on another W8.1/64-bit
machine.  When I use the Character Palette to enter the same special
characters (same font family), they display as question marks.

Is this a known bug with FM12?  Or is there a likely configuration item I've
overlooked?  Thanks!



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Re: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-17 Thread mkopen

Good one, thanks Robert!
Frame 8 does indeed shed those mysterious Frame 12 instructions, but gives me
back my Unicode.
Much apprecciated - Mike

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:04:07 -0700, Robert Lauriston wrote
> Try saving as MIF 12. FM8 may just ignore the things it doesn't recognize.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 5:48 PM, mkopen  wrote:
> > Hello all -
> >
> > Working with Frame 12, I have to deliver some files to a Frame 8 user. The
> > only option in Frame 12 is to save to version 7 *.mif. That would work if I
> > weren't using Unicode fonts (for Canadian Aboriginal languages). As one 
> > would
> > expect, when I open the v.7 miffed files in Frame 8, the diacritics have
> > morphed into question marks. Not good. Suggestions would be welcome.

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Re: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-17 Thread mkopen

Good one, thanks Robert!
Frame 8 does indeed shed those mysterious Frame 12 instructions, but give me
back my Unicode.
Much apprecciated - Mike

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:04:07 -0700, Robert Lauriston wrote
> Try saving as MIF 12. FM8 may just ignore the things it doesn't recognize.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 5:48 PM, mkopen  wrote:
> > Hello all -
> >
> > Working with Frame 12, I have to deliver some files to a Frame 8 user. The
> > only option in Frame 12 is to save to version 7 *.mif. That would work if I
> > weren't using Unicode fonts (for Canadian Aboriginal languages). As one 
> > would
> > expect, when I open the v.7 miffed files in Frame 8, the diacritics have
> > morphed into question marks. Not good. Suggestions would be welcome.

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Re: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-17 Thread Robert Lauriston

It's not that simple, the character encoding is different.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:03 AM, Jeff Coatsworth
 wrote:
> Is there an old substitute being used for the Aboriginal languages back in 
> FM8? If so, maybe you could hack the MIF to sub in the old font name in place 
> of the newer Unicode one?
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RE: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-17 Thread Jeff Coatsworth

Is there an old substitute being used for the Aboriginal languages back in FM8? 
If so, maybe you could hack the MIF to sub in the old font name in place of the 
newer Unicode one?

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of mkopen
Sent: September-16-14 8:48 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

Hello all -

Working with Frame 12, I have to deliver some files to a Frame 8 user. The
only option in Frame 12 is to save to version 7 *.mif. That would work if I
weren't using Unicode fonts (for Canadian Aboriginal languages). As one would
expect, when I open the v.7 miffed files in Frame 8, the diacritics have
morphed into question marks. Not good. Suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers,
Mike

===
Michael Heine
University of Western Ontario
London, ON
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Re: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-16 Thread John Sgammato

and 10 made it worse, and 11 made it better, and 12 made it much better -
once you accept the new world

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> I think FM8 was more stable and bug-free than any version since then.
> FM9 introduced the new UI layer, which broke a lot of things that have
> not been fixed since.
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 6:04 PM, John Sgammato
>  wrote:
> >
> > FrameMaker has changed an awful lot since FM8. It is probably a
> worthwhile investment to get your other half up to FM12 (or any 9+) at this
> point.
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Re: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-16 Thread Robert Lauriston

I think FM8 was more stable and bug-free than any version since then.
FM9 introduced the new UI layer, which broke a lot of things that have
not been fixed since.

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 6:04 PM, John Sgammato
 wrote:
>
> FrameMaker has changed an awful lot since FM8. It is probably a worthwhile 
> investment to get your other half up to FM12 (or any 9+) at this point.
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Re: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-16 Thread John Sgammato

FrameMaker has changed an awful lot since FM8. It is probably a worthwhile
investment to get your other half up to FM12 (or any 9+) at this point.

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:48 PM, mkopen  wrote:

> Hello all -
>
> Working with Frame 12, I have to deliver some files to a Frame 8 user. The
> only option in Frame 12 is to save to version 7 *.mif. That would work if I
> weren't using Unicode fonts (for Canadian Aboriginal languages). As one
> would
> expect, when I open the v.7 miffed files in Frame 8, the diacritics have
> morphed into question marks. Not good. Suggestions would be welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
> ===
> Michael Heine
> University of Western Ontario
> London, ON
> ___
>
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*e* john.sgamm...@actifio.com  *c* 508.927.2083
*t* @actifiodocs <http://twitter.com/actifiodocs>

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<https://plus.google.com/102870897962348937868/posts>
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Re: Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-16 Thread Robert Lauriston

Try saving as MIF 12. FM8 may just ignore the things it doesn't recognize.

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 5:48 PM, mkopen  wrote:
> Hello all -
>
> Working with Frame 12, I have to deliver some files to a Frame 8 user. The
> only option in Frame 12 is to save to version 7 *.mif. That would work if I
> weren't using Unicode fonts (for Canadian Aboriginal languages). As one would
> expect, when I open the v.7 miffed files in Frame 8, the diacritics have
> morphed into question marks. Not good. Suggestions would be welcome.
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Backgrading Frame 12 to Frame 8 - Unicode issue

2014-09-16 Thread mkopen

Hello all -

Working with Frame 12, I have to deliver some files to a Frame 8 user. The
only option in Frame 12 is to save to version 7 *.mif. That would work if I
weren't using Unicode fonts (for Canadian Aboriginal languages). As one would
expect, when I open the v.7 miffed files in Frame 8, the diacritics have
morphed into question marks. Not good. Suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers,
Mike

===
Michael Heine
University of Western Ontario
London, ON
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Re: Unicode Font Characters in Frame 8 through 12

2014-02-14 Thread Robert Lauriston

One problem in copying and pasting from Windows' Character Map is that
it sometimes shows characters that are not actually available. I have
found this site enormously helpful when dealing with special
characters:

http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/221e/index.htm

On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Oran Petersen  wrote:
>
> I teach my students to make a shortcut to the Windows character map for 
> convenience. The FrameMaker character map is awful. I point it out to my 
> students, we have a good laugh and then forget it.
>
> Copy/Paste from the Windows map works well for us.
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Unicode Font Characters in Frame 8 through 12

2014-02-14 Thread Oran Petersen


I teach my students to make a shortcut to the Windows character map for 
convenience. The FrameMaker character map is awful. I point it out to my 
students, we have a good laugh and then forget it. 

Copy/Paste from the Windows map works well for us. 

I had no trouble with the infinity symbol with either Arial or Arial Unicode MS 
although the MS version is smaller. (Frame 11) 

I choose not to change the registry to use the Alt sequences. Most find the 
Windows character map satisfactory. 

One thing I did not see mentioned is that you must paste Rich Text Format. If 
you paste as text you get ? in most cases. 

Some of us set up our Maker.ini file to paste text only as a default. This 
solves many issues when you copy/paste from Word and other such programs. 
However, you must then select Paste Special from the menu and choose Rich Text 
Format to get the correct symbol. Could be that is why some computers work and 
others do not. 

Also, from an earlier discussion, if you open a Word file in Frame, you can use 
the character sequence \x0d in the Find box and change to nothing to clean up 
the hidden characters at the end of paragraphs that cause a number of issues. 
This is easier than a mif wash. 

Oran Petersen 

 
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Fonts, Character Sets, Unicode and UTF-8 Explained

2013-07-20 Thread Ed Nodland

There are a couple of postings about this topic, and I have certainly spent
many hours fighting with special character issues and stray ? Åö ☐
characters.
A couple weeks back I prepared an explanation for a question
I received about a subscript3 ³ getting messed up in a complex processing
flow through many programs, spreadsheets, databases, editors and browsers.

I think this information could be helpful for many others, and I may have
more to understand so feel free to correct or clarify. This is a bit long.
I hope I'm not violating a forum rule.

Due to the mix of authoring, editing, transfer, storage and processing
programs and software, and the legacy techniques, data markup, and older
programs the character issue becomes a bit complex.

Framemaker 9.0 and up can handle UTF-8 encoded character data. Unicode 6.0
and ISO/IEC 10646:2010 defines 109,449 code points, values ( i.e.
characters). That's far more than the basic 256 ANSI characters that
include most of the western European characters used for the French,
Spanish, and other languages. The 256 ANSI characters are represented
using the values, a.k.a. code points, between 32 and 255, or in
Unicode hexadecimal representation U+0020 to U+00FF.

Many other characters have values above the basic 256 characters that can
be troublesome such as:

☢ ≤ ≥ ∂ ∆ € ℓ ∑ ☒ £ ₇ ⁸ √x₍̅₁̅₂̅₃₎̅ № ℥ ℃ ⅓ ⅘ ⅚ ⅞ ↺ ✔☑ ☐ ✈ ど カ ␍␊

Just in case e-mail messes up the characters above, here is an image of the
characters.

[image: Inline image 1]

There are five parts to the "character" puzzle:
1) The value used to represent a character. ASCII, ANSI, UNICODE. (I
recommend using *Unicode*)
2) The encoding, or how the character's value is stored using 1, 2, 3, or 4
bytes. Where a byte is 8 bits, ones and zeros. (I recommend *UTF-8*)
3) The font. The set of glyphs that define how the characters will appear.
(I recommend a *Unicode / UTF-8 based font*)
4) The character set declarations in XML, XSL, CSS, HTML, and software
coding options for file open, read and write statements.
5) The capabilities and limitations of various programs (browsers,
spreadsheets, editors, etc.) and data transfer methods.

The 1963 ASCII standard character set used a 7-bit encoding and hence was
limited to 128 values, 2⁷. Later the ANSI standard used all 8 bits
providing 2⁸ or 256 codepoints or characters (0 - 255) In order to display
mathematical or other special symbols not defined by the ASCII or ANSI
standards, custom fonts were developed such as Symbol, Wingdings and
Wingdings2 that displayed the limited 256 values differently. So π, pi,
could be displayed in a browser using p or in MS
Word by changing the font for the character with the value of 112, i.e the
"p" in a Symbol font.

So the value of 112 is not always a "p" unless a font is being used that
assigns the "p" glyph to the decimal value of 112 (hex x0070). Using the
Symbol font, 112 is a pi symbol π, and in Wingding3 font it is solid
triangle ▲.

Unicode is the set of values assigned to characters using 20 bits providing
2²⁰ or 1,112,064 codepoints. Unicode 6.0 and ISO/IEC 10646:2010 defines
109,449 characters all with unique codepoint values. In Unicode pi is
U+03C0 (960 decimal) and the triangle is U+25B2 (9,650 decimal). It is
customary to represent the Unicode values as hexadecimal preceeded by
"U+". Since
codepoints 03C0 (960) and 25B2 (9,650) cannot be stored using 1-byte,i.e. 8
bits, multiple bytes are required. This is where "encoding" comes in.

ANSI, ISO-1252, UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32 are encodings, i.e the way that the
values are stored using 8, 16, 24, or 32 bits (ones and zeros). ASCII uses
7 bits and is limited to 128 characters. ANSI and ISO-1252 are 1 byte
encodings that use all 8 bits with a limit of 256 codepoint values. UTF-8
uses 1 byte for the first 128 characters and then uses 2, 3, or 4 bytes as
required. UTF-16 always uses 16 bits, 2-bytes, unless more are required and
UTF-32 always uses 4 bytes even for the basic 256 characters. See the
UTF-8 reference below for details on the binary encoding. UTF stands for
Unicode Transformation Format. The UTF encodings all assume the Unicode
codepoint values are being used.

Then there is the font. If the font does not have a glyph defined for the
character codepoint (value) it will typically display as a box or a
question mark.* Arial Unicode MS* is a Windows font that supports glyphs
for most of the first 65,533 Unicode codepoints.* Verdana* defines 780
Unicode codepoints while *Century Schoolbook* defines 650 Unicode
codepoints and 20 "Private Use" glyphs. The basic 256 characters are the
same between the three fonts, not the appearance but an "a" is an "a". T
the rest character in each font use the save values but each font contains
a different collection of values and characters. One may contain the
infinity symol while another may not.

When a single

Fonts, Character Sets, Unicode and UTF-8 Explained

2013-07-20 Thread Ed Nodland

There are a couple of postings about this topic, and I have certainly spent
many hours fighting with special character issues and stray ? ?? ?
characters.
 A couple weeks back I prepared an explanation for a question
I received about a subscript3 ? getting messed up in a complex processing
flow through many programs, spreadsheets, databases, editors and browsers.

I think this information could be helpful for many others, and I may have
more to understand so feel free to correct or clarify.  This is a bit long.
 I hope I'm not violating a forum rule.

Due to the mix of authoring, editing, transfer, storage and processing
programs and software, and the legacy techniques, data markup, and older
programs the character issue becomes a bit complex.

Framemaker 9.0 and up can handle UTF-8 encoded character data.  Unicode 6.0
and ISO/IEC 10646:2010 defines 109,449 code points, values ( i.e.
characters).  That's far more than the basic 256 ANSI characters that
include most of the western European characters used for the French,
Spanish, and other languages.  The 256 ANSI characters are represented
using the values, a.k.a. code points, between 32 and 255, or in
Unicode hexadecimal representation U+0020 to U+00FF.

Many other characters have values above the basic 256 characters that can
be troublesome such as:

?  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?   ?x?  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ??

Just in case e-mail messes up the characters above, here is an image of the
characters.

[image: Inline image 1]

There are five parts to the "character" puzzle:
1) The value used to represent a character.  ASCII, ANSI, UNICODE.  (I
recommend using *Unicode*)
2) The encoding, or how the character's value is stored using 1, 2, 3, or 4
bytes.  Where a byte is 8 bits, ones and zeros.  (I recommend *UTF-8*)
3) The font.  The set of glyphs that define how the characters will appear.
(I recommend a *Unicode / UTF-8 based font*)
4) The character set declarations in XML, XSL, CSS, HTML, and software
coding options for file open, read and write statements.
5) The capabilities and limitations of various programs (browsers,
spreadsheets, editors, etc.) and data transfer methods.

The 1963 ASCII standard character set used a 7-bit encoding and hence was
limited to 128 values, 2?. Later the ANSI standard used all 8 bits
providing 2? or 256 codepoints or characters (0 - 255)  In order to display
mathematical or other special symbols not defined by the ASCII or ANSI
standards, custom fonts were developed such as Symbol, Wingdings and
Wingdings2 that displayed the limited 256 values differently.  So ?, pi,
could be displayed in a browser using p or in MS
Word by changing the font for the character with the value of 112, i.e the
"p" in a Symbol font.

So the value of 112 is not always a "p" unless a font is being used that
assigns the "p" glyph to the decimal value of 112 (hex x0070). Using the
Symbol font, 112 is a pi symbol ?, and in Wingding3 font it is solid
triangle ?.

Unicode is the set of values assigned to characters using 20 bits providing
2?? or 1,112,064 codepoints. Unicode 6.0 and ISO/IEC 10646:2010 defines
109,449 characters all with unique codepoint values. In Unicode pi is
U+03C0 (960 decimal) and the triangle is U+25B2 (9,650 decimal). It is
customary to represent the Unicode values as hexadecimal preceeded by
"U+". Since
codepoints 03C0 (960) and 25B2 (9,650) cannot be stored using 1-byte,i.e. 8
bits, multiple bytes are required.  This is where "encoding" comes in.

ANSI, ISO-1252, UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32 are encodings, i.e the way that the
values are stored using 8, 16, 24, or 32 bits (ones and zeros). ASCII uses
7 bits and is limited to 128 characters. ANSI and ISO-1252 are 1 byte
encodings that use all 8 bits with a limit of 256 codepoint values.  UTF-8
uses 1 byte for the first 128 characters and then uses 2, 3, or 4 bytes as
required. UTF-16 always uses 16 bits, 2-bytes, unless more are required and
UTF-32 always uses 4 bytes even for the basic 256 characters.  See the
UTF-8 reference below for details on the binary encoding. UTF stands for
Unicode Transformation Format. The UTF encodings all assume the Unicode
codepoint values are being used.

Then there is the font.  If the font does not have a glyph defined for the
character codepoint (value) it will typically display as a box or a
question mark.* Arial Unicode MS* is a Windows font that supports glyphs
for most of the first 65,533 Unicode codepoints.* Verdana* defines 780
Unicode codepoints while *Century Schoolbook* defines 650 Unicode
codepoints and 20 "Private Use" glyphs.  The basic 256 characters are the
same between the three fonts, not the appearance but an "a" is an "a". T
the rest character in each font use the save values but each font contains
a different collection of values and characters.  One may contain the
infinity symol while another may not.

When a single

Re: Help with unicode and question marks (1 pdf)

2012-09-21 Thread Robert Lauriston

I already have utilities that let me page through 250 fonts to find a
particular character. Search would save a lot of time.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Klaus Daube  wrote:
> On 19 Sep 2012 at 12:03, Robert Lauriston wrote:
>
>> Does that (BabelMap) let you search all fonts for a particular character?
>
> You can find the grlyph with "Composite
> font" ON, then switch to "Single font" and select a font from the list to 
> check whether this font
> shows the glyph and then select the next promising font... See the PDF with 
> the respective screen
> shots.
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Re: Help with unicode and question marks

2012-09-21 Thread Robert Lauriston

Does that let you search all fonts for a particular character?

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Klaus Daube  wrote:

> I use BabelMap where I can switch between Combined Font and Single
> Font.
>
> The required symbol (U+2611 BALLOT BOX WITH CHECK) can be found - for
> example - in Segoe UI Symbol.
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RE: Help with unicode and question marks

2012-09-20 Thread Dov Isaacs

None of the Adobe fonts posted on fontzone.net or cufonfonts.com are legal! 
These web sites do not have licenses for the fonts and/or permission to post 
them for download.

Thanks for the pointers which I will forward to Adobe Legal for follow-up!

- Dov

[cid:image001.png@01CD9722.1A68A400]

Dov Isaacs
Principal Scientist
Adobe Systems Incorporated

+1 408.536.2896 (tel)
+1 408.242.5161 (cell)
isa...@adobe.com

345 Park Avenue
San Jose, CA  95110-2704 USA
http://www.adobe.com

Feel free to print this e-mail
if your needs dictate hard copy.
There is no need to feel guilty about printing!
Paper is renewable and recyclable.

From: Stuart Rogers [mailto:srog...@phoenix-geophysics.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:35 AM
To: Dov Isaacs
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Help with unicode and question marks

On 19/09/2012 7:02 PM, Dov Isaacs wrote:

> For the record, there is *no//*/legally available,/**/non-Adobe /version

> of Myriad Pro.

>

>  - Dov

Thanks for clarifying, Dov.  During my searches for an answer to the

missing glyph that Windows was lying to me about, I came across sites

such as Fontzone.net and cufonfonts.com that offer free versions of the

font, and such as linotype that offer Myriad Pro but hide the fact that

it's Adobe's in a nearly invisible line of grey type at the bottom of

the page.

I paid Adobe for my version, so I know for sure that's the one I'm using!

Best regards,

--

Stuart Rogers

Technical Communicator

Phoenix Geophysics Limited

3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3

Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5

+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com
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