Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
Where did the -C option for install(1) come from? bde pick up on somethings I did a long time ago. Uh, no, wrong. (Speaking as the creator of `install -C'.) In defense of Steven, he was the 'original' author of -C, whether or not you used his code or not. He pushed for this long before it was part of FreeBSD. AFAIR, I used Garrett's version of -C long before Steve pushed for something quite different (-z). Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
Bruce Evans wrote: Where did the -C option for install(1) come from? bde pick up on somethings I did a long time ago. Uh, no, wrong. (Speaking as the creator of `install -C'.) In defense of Steven, he was the 'original' author of -C, whether or not you used his code or not. He pushed for this long before it was part of FreeBSD. AFAIR, I used Garrett's version of -C long before Steve pushed for something quite different (-z). If you check the cvs log files, it appears Bruce in fact used Garrett's work. If you search the hackers mailing list with install(1) AND kargl. You'll find a large number of emails about new features to install circa Oct 95. I added several options, I called the now used -C option -t. My method was inferior to Garrett's method. The participants in the emails exchanged in 95 were Bruce, Rod, Julian, Terry, Nate, Poul, and myself. Note: my mailing list search is not comprehensive , so Garrett may have participated. In the end, it doesn't matter who did what. I've two valuable lessons this weekend: (1) continue my anonymous hacking, and (2) never question the intentions of a committer particularly on a mailing list. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
On Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:46:06 PST, Steve Kargl wrote: (2) never question the intentions of a committer particularly on a mailing list. Hi Steve, I think it's healthy to question the intentions of commiters. However, I think it's important to clearly state your concerns. If you object, list your objections. Also, when your views come under criticism, try to see the point of view from which the criticism comes _before_ you start defending your views. I know from my own experience that I'm often so involved in trying to restate more clearly what I originally said that I miss valid criticisms. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
On Thu, Feb 11, 1999 at 09:46:06AM -0800, Steve Kargl wrote: (2) never question the intentions of a committer particularly on a mailing list. Do NOT follow this rule. We should all be questioned. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Mike Smith m...@smith.net.au writes: You will get no route to host type messages. Yup. That's just the way it is - I can't imagine what alternative the original poster thought they could have, steal an address? Ignore your least? Get real. Nope, just curious as to what would would happen. I kinda realised that if your IP address goes away, you're going to have problems maintaining connections. :-) I just wondered whether we would negotiate another one, for use by new processes... But then, you'd still have to restart all daemons... A reboot would be quicker. I'm not sure what NT does under those circumstances. -- When I said we, officer, I was referring to myself, the four young ladies, and, of course, the goat. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
David O'Brien obr...@nuxi.com writes: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. I have it bmaked and ready go to. I have choosen the WIDE client because it is much smaller space-wise than the ISC client and its configuration is simplier. The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. Having just read all the emotional arguments, I have a technical one: What impact will this have on the rc files? How will it affect rc.conf, seeing as it overrides several values therein? What happens if your lease expires and doesn't get renewed, or gets renewed with a different IP address? Having seen the complete mess that DHCP client support made of Solaris' init files (and they were bad to start with!), I'm keen to not see the same convolution made here. -- When I said we, officer, I was referring to myself, the four young ladies, and, of course, the goat. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
I'm not convinced that DHCP CLIENT needs to have everything wide open. It sends a broadcast, but the response is directed. On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Sean Eric Fagan wrote: In article 19990209082922.17759.qmail.kithrup.freebsd.curr...@rucus.ru.ac.za you write: - DHCP-WIDE requires you to have bpf configured into your kernel for a GENERIC kernel, this is VERY BAD - is there a more elegant way to handle this? I certainly would not like to see the generic kernel in the distribution going out into the world with bpf enabled. So does isc-dhcp. There's really no other way to do it: you need the ability to grab packets that come from an unidentified machine, which doesn't have an IP address. You could write some other method of doing this -- and then put it into every single ethernet (et al) device driver -- or you could just use BPF, which really isn't all that large. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
It may even be necessary to use bpf initially, but there must be a more elegant way - having a quick look around - it would be a good idea to look at the code which already exists in libstand (/usr/src/lib/libstand/bootp.c). There is. Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:20:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Garrett Wollman woll...@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu Message-Id: 199809161920.paa07...@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu ..snip.. The problem is that the network code assumes, at a very deep level, that you can't have any IP traffic until you have an address configured (and this is wrong, but requires work to fix). -GAWollman Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge of the part of the kernel that needs changing. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
David's original email said he was going to commit without giving a justification. I call it bloat, then the justifications pour in. I may have been too close to the situation. JKH asked for a DHCP client on -STABLE a few days ago to add to the boot floppy. He now has one. I was taking the contribute code, not ideas with no one to act on them route. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 11:10:53PM -0800, Mike Smith wrote: There are any number of reasons for going with the ISC client, including an involved ISC developer that's keen to help it happen. The WIDE project has been very responsive in the past in supporting their products on FreeBSD. Unless this person is a committer, or there is another committer wanting to carry the issue, I use the WIDE client daily. There are good reasons to with with either client. I'm not sure what best criteria to use in picking one other, except support and maintenance. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
*DO* *NOT* *SUPPORT* *STATIC* *IP* *ASSIGNMENTS*. How can we make this any clearer to you? Its fine to say `I don't want to see DHCP in the base system' Then, *BUY* the cd-rom and support the FreeBSD project. Maybe Gary isn't yelling loud enought, so let me try. I AM part of the FreeBSD Project. I'm contributing about as much as I possibly can. My home machines are on the campus Ethernet. *STATIC* *IP* *ASSIGNMENTS* *DO* *NOT* *EXIST*. If you care to see the 80-some-odd ports I maintain to continue to be so; you will not mind me being able to get an IP address for my test boxes will you? Of course I could just install the 3.0-R CDROM, but then I guess you might get upset when the ports I maintain don't work on the upcoming release. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
What impact will this have on the rc files? How will it affect rc.conf, seeing as it overrides several values therein? Most basic, you would have ``network_interfaces=lo0 fxp0'' as usual, but no ifconfig_fxp0=inet line. Rather you would have a ``/etc/start_if.fxp0'' file with: /sbin/dhcpc fxp0 sleep 10 in it. If you want to assign your own hostname, you may continue to do so in the normal manner. If you use ``dhcpc -n fxp0'', dhcpc will do ``hostname ...'' with the hostname returned by the DHCP server. If you want to specify your /etc/resolv.conf file, you may do so. Or use ``dhcp -r fxp0'' to create one for you. What happens if your lease expires and doesn't get renewed, or gets renewed with a different IP address? You will get no route to host type messages. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Would you please settle on a set of misinformation and stick with it? isc-dhcp's client *does* have a very extensive configuration file. Same parser as the server. Ok! So I'll stop passing on this information, I'll try it again. Last time I used ISC-dhclient, it did infact REQUIRE a configuration file. Now a zero length file might of done the trick.. but it bitched about a non-existent file. and would not fetch an IP address for me when I ran it. So maybe it is a documentation over-site. Maybe now it says configuration file not found, using built-in defaults. Contract with the WIDE-dhcpc which Just Worked(tm). -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 04:32:39PM -0800, Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote: If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. That's senseless what you said. You certainly are able to imagine that in some networks you can't have static IP address, but you need to install FreeBSD over network. I'm glad to see DHCP client included onto boot floppy in the future. -- Vallo Kallaste va...@matti.ee To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Can we go onto a more interesting discussion? I'm a bit tired of debating the merits of DHCP or rc.conf.site.foo.bar and this discussion thread (and that one) have now moved to the delete at first sight stage. - Jordan David O'Brien wrote: These should be left has ports. Explain how I am to install FreeBSD at my campus when DHCP has been mandated. Many univ. are moving in this direction. Maybe, support WC by purchasing the cd-rom? Convince your University to get a large quantity of cd-roms from WC and resell the disks to the students? -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
In article e10a862-gy-00.qmail.kithrup.freebsd.curr...@myrddin.demon.co.uk you write: What impact will this have on the rc files? How will it affect rc.conf, seeing as it overrides several values therein? PAO already has some support for this; it works, and is what I've been using. What happens if your lease expires and doesn't get renewed, or gets renewed with a different IP address? That's always a problem -- I know some people at uSoft who have that happen (in Windows), and it kills their telnet sessions. It's not something we're going to be able to solve, and there really isn't one. Having seen the complete mess that DHCP client support made of Solaris' init files (and they were bad to start with!), I'm keen to not see the same convolution made here. Fortunately, it shouldn't be that difficult. There's a freebsd shell script that comes with isc-dhcp that does the brunt of the work, and dhclient invokes that itself. So all the rc scripts have to do is notice that the IP address is being set by DHCP, and start dhclient, instead of running ifconfig. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
-Original Message- From: David O'Brien [mailto:obr...@nuxi.com] Sent: 09 February 1999 10:54 To: Geoff Rehmet Cc: curr...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/ It may even be necessary to use bpf initially, but there must be a more elegant way - having a quick look around - it would be a good idea to look at the code which already exists in libstand (/usr/src/lib/libstand/bootp.c). There is. Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:20:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Garrett Wollman woll...@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu Message-Id: 199809161920.paa07...@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu ..snip.. The problem is that the network code assumes, at a very deep level, that you can't have any IP traffic until you have an address configured (and this is wrong, but requires work to fix). -GAWollman Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge of the part of the kernel that needs changing. Hopefully, it will be possible to find the person who will be able to do that work - I also do not have the knowledge to do this. It is probably worth fixing, to get a more elegant way for DHCP to work, and I believe that DHCP should be committed with a view to changing the use of bpf. I realise this is not an easy proposition. Geoff. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
From: Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com Subject: Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 21:05:59 -0800 Make sysinstall be able to pkg_add? We do something similar to It can already pkg_add. However, I need dhcp in the crunched image since I can't very well GET a package if I don't have any bloody IP addresses to configure the network interface with and the user doesn't know what they are either. :-) - Jordan I wasn't clear about that (sorry - long day). I meant something like pkg_add for extending the sysinstall environment, not the one being installed. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghi...@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl wrote: Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt What about us without FreeBSD cd-roms? -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) d...@newsguy.com d...@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Karl Pielorz wrote: Whilst the argument about removing the source tree / kernel source etc. has always been pretty mute (what hackers not worth their salt don't come prepared? :) - I don't like the idea of every root exploiter just being able to 'instantly' sit there and run BPF! (Without even things like tripwire having a chance of detecting a kernel change). Err... what about kld? Or you are basing your security on a hacker's lazyness? -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) d...@newsguy.com d...@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl wrote: The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. Content-Type: text/BLOAT These should be left has ports. I disagree. It is very common nowadays to need to extract your IP address through DHCP. Not having a DHCP boot floppy/cd is a serious disadvantage. -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) d...@newsguy.com d...@freebsd.org Well, as a computer geek, I have to believe in the binary universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
From: John Birrell j...@cimlogic.com.au Or convince FreeBSD developers to simply add a DHCP client to the base sources and build a boot/install floppy with that functionality. No user cost. No user hassle. Why not?! Sigh. Agree that this should be done for now. Absolutely. In the long run, an extensible sysinstall will help with these matters. I haven't really examined them yet, but feel safe in assuming that there is a fair amount of unused space on the two floppy installation diskette set. It shouldn't be necessary to extract everything that might ship on these floppies for every user. I'm not certain what the minimum installation footprint is right now but would probably be safe in assuming that it is growing. I sincerely believe that getting the filesystem layering code into shape is a good first step toward a more flexible sysinstall. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghi...@bellsouth.net -- John Birrell - j...@cimlogic.com.au; j...@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:13:30 + (GMT), Geoff Rehmet geo...@is.co.za said: The issue, as I understand it, is to get a reply from an unknown server (who has an IP address), while you have no IP address. You also have to send a packet *from* 0.0.0.0 (since you have no IP address). I'm almost irritated enough to consider fixing this this week. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same woll...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Sean Eric Fagan writes: There is NO config file which means its damn annoying for you to tweak how it works.. Would you please settle on a set of misinformation and stick with it? isc-dhcp's client *does* have a very extensive configuration file. Same parser as the server. In 99.9% of cases, it needs to be a 0-length file. I agree that ISC is better software (in terms of design, configurability, etc). We use the ISC server (highly modified for our product) on the InterJet and it works fine. -Archie ___ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On 8 Feb, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: These should be left has ports. Can't really get away with that anymore - too many people require DHCP for very basic bootstrapping. To insert some reality into this discussion, a quick survey at the office shows: PlatformHas DHCP Irix 6.5Yes Solaris 2.5.1 No HP/UX 10.20 Yes Linux (RH 5.x) Yes AIX 4.2 Yes BSD/OS 4.0 Yes FreeBSD 2.X, 3.XNo A yes means ships with the base OS. I'll also note that the ASUS motherboards I use in our servers have BOOTP in the BIOS to support net booting via the onboard Intel Pro/100 interfaces. It's time to get out of the stone age, folks. --lyndon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
David O'Brien wrote: I was taking the contribute code, not ideas with no one to act on them route. Hear, Hear! Please import this, it will certainly make may (and many of those I work with) lives a $#!tload easier. M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
From: Charlie ROOT r...@nomad.dataplex.net Although it is somewhat larger, the ISC dhcp2 client has significantly more flexability WRT options beyond the bare basics. I would recommend that the default client on HD based systems be the ISC client because of that flexability. I have to agree here. The problem with ISC is the example configuration file in the manpage is much too complicated. It scares people off. 99% of the people don't need that. My config file is: send host-name pdxlx103; One line that's it. -Wayne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
To insert some reality into this discussion, a quick survey at the office shows: Platform Has DHCP Irix 6.5 Yes Solaris 2.5.1 No ... and Solaris 2.6 has DHCP. HP/UX 10.20 Yes Linux (RH 5.x)Yes AIX 4.2 Yes BSD/OS 4.0Yes FreeBSD 2.X, 3.X No A yes means ships with the base OS. Yes, having a DHCP client as a standard part of the system wold be nice. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Steve Kargl wrote: Daniel O'Connor wrote: On 09-Feb-99 Steve Kargl wrote: And just WHERE is the package?? Often on an NFS or FTP server, no?? And just HOW am I to communicate with that NFS or FTP server?? Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt Excuse me sir.. I am but a poor student.. Or I'd like to play with FreeBSD, but I'd rather not fork out US$30 for something I haven't tested. Cheapbytes. Support the project and Walnut Creek CDROM. Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 09:27:44AM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: Platform Has DHCP Irix 6.5 Yes Solaris 2.5.1 No Solaris 2.6 Yes You should have used a more modern Solaris. It helps your argment. :-) It's time to get out of the stone age, folks. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David O'Brien wrote: On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 09:27:44AM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: PlatformHas DHCP Irix 6.5Yes Solaris 2.5.1 No Solaris 2.6 Yes You should have used a more modern Solaris. It helps your argment. :-) Digital Unix 4.0Yes -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
In article 19990209003618.b19...@relay.nuxi.com, David O'Brien obr...@nuxi.com wrote: Maybe Gary isn't yelling loud enought, so let me try. I AM part of the FreeBSD Project. I'm contributing about as much as I possibly can. David, please Just Do It. As is often the case, the loudest of the obstructionists are nowhere to be found in the commit logs or the FreeBSD contributors list. -- John Polstra j...@polstra.com John D. Polstra Co., Inc.Seattle, Washington USA Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
What impact will this have on the rc files? How will it affect rc.conf, seeing as it overrides several values therein? Most basic, you would have ``network_interfaces=lo0 fxp0'' as usual, but no ifconfig_fxp0=inet line. Actually, I'm not sure I'd want to be that locked in. I'd have interfaces listed explicitly assume they had config data, and then specify a 'DHCP' token to have all non-listed interfaces do the DHCP thing, eg: network_interfaces=lo0 dhcp What happens if your lease expires and doesn't get renewed, or gets renewed with a different IP address? You will get no route to host type messages. Yup. That's just the way it is - I can't imagine what alternative the original poster thought they could have, steal an address? Ignore your least? Get real. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ m...@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msm...@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msm...@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
on Feb 9, David O'Brien obr...@nuxi.com wrote: What impact will this have on the rc files? How will it affect rc.conf, seeing as it overrides several values therein? Most basic, you would have ``network_interfaces=lo0 fxp0'' as usual, but no ifconfig_fxp0=inet line. Rather you would have a ``/etc/start_if.fxp0'' file with: /sbin/dhcpc fxp0 sleep 10 this is one of the things ISC does better than WIDE, btw -- dhclient won't background itself until it has an ip address, so you don't have to guess how long it'll take to obtain a lease. no wasted time during boot if things are quick, no lost services if things are slow. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Just wanted to mention something that I haven't seen mentioned here in all the flaming and whatnot. OpenBSD ships out-of-the-box with dhcp client support available as an install option. This turned out to be very nice when I was installing it on one of my friend's Sparcs. His network is on a DSL link and has to run with DHCP - he has no static IPs available at all. OpenBSD installed and runs just fine with his network. We also tried to get Solaris7 going on one of his other Sparcs but it was a royal pain to figure out how to turn on dhcp for it. It didn't switch it on during the install nor give any hints as to how do do so. All in all, OpenBSD made a far more favorable impression on my friend than Solaris. So from a practical point-of-view, I think adding dhcp client support to FreeBSD is a good thing. Also, the argument about which dhcp server/client is better than the other, if I may suggest looking at and perhaps importing the OpenBSD code? The CHANGES file lists a bunch of security and bug fixes. I can't tell where the code is derived from. -- Parag Patel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Ok! So I'll stop passing on this information, I'll try it again. Last time I used ISC-dhclient, it did infact REQUIRE a configuration file. Now a zero length file might of done the trick.. but it bitched about a non-existent file. and would not fetch an IP address for me when I ran it. So maybe it is a documentation over-site. Maybe now it says configuration file not found, using built-in defaults. This is the same experience I had with ISC - it would never fetch an IP address. WIDE worked right off, so I've been sticking with that. - Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Most basic, you would have ``network_interfaces=lo0 fxp0'' as usual, but no ifconfig_fxp0=inet line. then specify a 'DHCP' token to have all non-listed interfaces do the DHCP thing, eg: network_interfaces=lo0 dhcp Hum... can you give a little more of the approach? I'm probably just not seeing the clean way of doing this. I've got a machine on the DHCP required network with two NICs. Currently I'm only using one of them and thus don't have it listed in ``network_interfaces''. So it just happily sits there. IMHO we shouldn't try to dhcp configure it. It will just fill up logs as it continues to try to get a lease which it can't. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Most basic, you would have ``network_interfaces=lo0 fxp0'' as usual, but no ifconfig_fxp0=inet line. then specify a 'DHCP' token to have all non-listed interfaces do the DHCP thing, eg: network_interfaces=lo0 dhcp Hum... can you give a little more of the approach? I'm probably just not seeing the clean way of doing this. The ISC dhclient can (IRC) take a list of interfaces not to muck with. Just pass it all the interface names on the list, minus the 'dhcp'. If you find 'dhcp' in $network_interfaces, start dhclient. I've got a machine on the DHCP required network with two NICs. Currently I'm only using one of them and thus don't have it listed in ``network_interfaces''. So it just happily sits there. IMHO we shouldn't try to dhcp configure it. It will just fill up logs as it continues to try to get a lease which it can't. In a situation like that, you would just tune the dhcp client not to ask for a lease on that interface. You know you've done something silly; there's a mechanism to stop it breaking things. What more could you ask for? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ m...@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msm...@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msm...@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Mike Smith m...@smith.net.au wrote: I've got a machine on the DHCP required network with two NICs. Currently I'm only using one of them and thus don't have it listed in ``network_interfaces''. So it just happily sits there. IMHO we shouldn't try to dhcp configure it. It will just fill up logs as it continues to try to get a lease which it can't. In a situation like that, you would just tune the dhcp client not to ask for a lease on that interface. You know you've done something silly; there's a mechanism to stop it breaking things. What more could you ask for? POLA. Currently, an interface that isn't mentioned isn't configured at all. Changing that isn't kind. Perhaps having a variable in rc.conf that lists the interfaces to be configured with DHCP would be better? (As opposed to the statically configured interfaces.) Tony. -- f.a.n.finch d...@dotat.at f...@demon.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Mike Smith m...@smith.net.au wrote: In a situation like that, you would just tune the dhcp client not to ask for a lease on that interface. You know you've done something silly; there's a mechanism to stop it breaking things. What more could you ask for? POLA. Currently, an interface that isn't mentioned isn't configured at all. Changing that isn't kind. Perhaps having a variable in rc.conf that lists the interfaces to be configured with DHCP would be better? (As opposed to the statically configured interfaces.) It depends on who's being astonished. DHCP expects to try to configure all your interfaces; that's what it's there for. On a system where a new and unexpected interface may suddenly arrive, it makes sense to have the dhcp client pick it up. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ m...@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msm...@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msm...@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
On Mon, 08 Feb 1999 22:34:52 PST, Steve Kargl wrote: How can we make this any clearer to you? Its fine to say `I don't want to see DHCP in the base system' when you have the choice of getting a static IP. A lot of the emerging high-speed access providers aren't giving you that option. Then, *BUY* the cd-rom and support the FreeBSD project. It took me a while to figure out what I didn't like about your punt. After all, the project could use the money. But something grated me about it nonetheless. Anyway, 30 minutes later, I've figured it out. You're endorsing FreeBSD crippleware. I sincerely hope that your attitude is _not_ endorsed by the core team. Ciao, Sheldon. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
FW: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
In addition to Irix 6.5, you should also add Irix 6.3 and 6.4 to that list. It's been there since 6.3 first shipped on the O2s in '97. -steve From: owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-curr...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of John Fieber Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:41 PM To: obr...@freebsd.org Cc: curr...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/ On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David O'Brien wrote: On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 09:27:44AM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: PlatformHas DHCP Irix 6.5Yes Solaris 2.5.1 No Solaris 2.6 Yes You should have used a more modern Solaris. It helps your argment. :-) Digital Unix 4.0Yes -john To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
From: Daniel C. Sobral d...@newsguy.com Steve Kargl wrote: The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. Content-Type: text/BLOAT These should be left has ports. I disagree. It is very common nowadays to need to extract your IP address through DHCP. Not having a DHCP boot floppy/cd is a serious disadvantage. Make a boot floppy with BPF and a DHCP client. When a user installs via the network, ensure a VERY PROMINENT splash screen indicates that the basic NO-BPF kernel has been installed (ie - the normal distribution kernel) and that NO DHCP CLIENT is installed on the hard drive and that the BPF will NOT be available upon reboot. Then offer the option to install either the WIDE or ISC client via the package mechanism and a BPF-enabled GENERIC kernel. This mechanism ensures that people in a DHCP environment can install via the network without causing the security- and bloat-minded people to have a brain hemmorage. If the installers using the DHCP boot disk don't follow the instructions and install a proper package or a BPF-enabled kernel, they are SOL for not having read the dialog boxes. --Jason j.b.georgeatieee.org jbgatmasterplan.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
Sheldon Hearn a...@iafrica.com writes: Anyway, 30 minutes later, I've figured it out. You're endorsing FreeBSD crippleware. I sincerely hope that your attitude is _not_ endorsed by the core team. Steve isn't even a committer. He's one of those oh-so-many people who love to whine about practically anything we do, on the assumption that they know better, even though they never do any work of their own. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: Sheldon Hearn a...@iafrica.com writes: Anyway, 30 minutes later, I've figured it out. You're endorsing FreeBSD crippleware. I sincerely hope that your attitude is _not_ endorsed by the core team. Steve isn't even a committer. He's one of those oh-so-many people who love to whine about practically anything we do, on the assumption that they know better, even though they never do any work of their own. I was going to let this die because I've been convince that dhcp might be useful, but ad hominem attacks tend to beg a response. Oh please, I don't whine about every little change. I applaud the work that Matt Dillon is doing within the VM system and NFS. I appreciate the work that Satoshi and even David O'Brien do in trying to maintain sanity in the ports collection. You'll find that I've sent patches and they've either been committed or rewritten to the liking of a committer. Where did the -C option for install(1) come from? bde pick up on somethings I did a long time ago. He rewrote (and I admit improved) upon my ideas. [I added a -z that also compressed as it installed the file, but this was argued against.] Check the log files for f2c. You'll see my name. I have even gone as far as providing a way to remove f2c because Mike Smith asked me. That work, is sitting and waiting. I've sent in numerous patches to the documentation when Mike Pitchard(sp?) wentr through the manpage with a clean up sweep. Check on the addition of the -a option to /usr/bin/time, and other clean-ups to /usr/bin/time. There is talk about importing John Galbraith's GPIB driver into -current. I provided the patches to John so it would compile of (pre-3.0-RELEASE) -current. Sure, my contributions might be small compare to bde or even your contributions, but I send patches when I have find a problem. Finally, when do I get my commit priveleges so I won't receive any further condescending flames from you. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu writes: Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: Steve isn't even a committer. He's one of those oh-so-many people who love to whine about practically anything we do, on the assumption that they know better, even though they never do any work of their own. [...] Finally, when do I get my commit priveleges so I won't receive any further condescending flames from you. Sorry if I hit a nerve, but no matter your previous achievements, your contribution to the DHCP discussion has been nothing but whining. You did not even bother to back your whining with anything approaching a serious argument. Comparing a DHCP client to a Fortran compiler is not a serious argument. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu wrote: Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt Hmmm... Lets see: 1) Drop FreeBSD CD-ROM into tray on server 2) mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /cdrom 3) [NFS export /cdrom] 4) Boot client from floppy. so far so good. 5) Configure client network interface using DHCP 6) mount_nfs server:/mnt /mnt 7) pkg_add /mnt/.../dhcp-client This could be more difficult... Any suggestions on how to perform step 5 before the DHCP client is installed in step 7? Alternatively, how can I manage step 6 before step 5? Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:39:35 -0800 (PST), Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu said: Where did the -C option for install(1) come from? bde pick up on somethings I did a long time ago. Uh, no, wrong. (Speaking as the creator of `install -C'.) -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same woll...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: FreeBSD Crippleware (was Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/)
Where did the -C option for install(1) come from? bde pick up on somethings I did a long time ago. Uh, no, wrong. (Speaking as the creator of `install -C'.) In defense of Steven, he was the 'original' author of -C, whether or not you used his code or not. He pushed for this long before it was part of FreeBSD. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. I have it bmaked and ready go to. I have choosen the WIDE client because it is much smaller space-wise than the ISC client and its configuration is simplier. The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 02:28:20PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. I have it bmaked and ready go to. I have choosen the WIDE client because it is much smaller space-wise than the ISC client and its configuration is simplier. The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. Content-Type: text/applause Yaay! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Hi, On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 02:28:20PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. speaking about DHCP-things (clients and servers) I would like to hear from some 'export' on choosing a the 'right' dhcp-software for FreeBSD. I'm mostly interested in choosing the server part. In the past I deployed only the wide-dhcp server from the ports collection; but only because I somehow decided to test the wide-dhcp before the isc one. A few days ago I had a look (triggered by a piece of samba documentation) at isc-dhcp and found the configuration syntax somewhat more user friendly. Are there any really hard facts on how to decide? The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. fine. Kind regards, Andreas -- : TSE TeleService GmbH : Gsf: Arne Reuter: : : Hovestrasse 14: Andreas Braukmann : We do it with : : D-48351 Everswinkel : HRB: 1430, AG WAF : FreeBSD/SMP: :: : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Joe Abley wrote: On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 02:28:20PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. I have it bmaked and ready go to. I have choosen the WIDE client because it is much smaller space-wise than the ISC client and its configuration is simplier. The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. Content-Type: text/applause Content-Type: text/BLOAT These should be left has ports. -- Steve finger ka...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
speaking about DHCP-things (clients and servers) I would like to hear from some 'export' on choosing a the 'right' dhcp-software for FreeBSD. I'm mostly interested in choosing the server part. In the past I deployed only the wide-dhcp server from the ports collection; but only because I somehow decided to test the wide-dhcp before the isc one. A few days ago I had a look (triggered by a piece of samba documentation) at isc-dhcp and found the configuration syntax somewhat more user friendly. Are there any really hard facts on how to decide? FWIW, I've integrated both the WIDE DHCP client and server pieces into a PicoBSD image. I started out trying with ISC, but WIDE ended up being much easier to deal with. The ISC server does have a nicer configuration syntax, but the WIDE client is easier to get going with. - Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. I have it bmaked and ready go to. I have choosen the WIDE client because it is much smaller space-wise than the ISC client and its configuration is simplier. I tried both, and I must say that ISC was easier to use and configure. It also seems to work better, at least as a server. I couldn't get Wide-DHCP to work, but it's been a while since I tried though... I don't know why you think the termcap-type configuration is easier to understand than ISCs configuration :-) Dan Eischen eisc...@vigrid.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu writes: On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 02:28:20PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. [...] These should be left has ports. If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu writes: On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 02:28:20PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. [...] These should be left has ports. If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. -- Steve finger ka...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu http://troutmask.apl.washington.edu/~clesceri/kargl.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu writes: Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. None of these are necessary on an average workstation. DHCP is becoming more and more common. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. Here are the regular (dynamically linked) versions of the ISC client and server: phluffy% ls -l =dhclient =dhcpd -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 86016 Nov 20 20:47 /usr/local/sbin/dhclient -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 90112 Nov 20 20:47 /usr/local/sbin/dhcpd I built a static version of the WIDE client and server, both were only around 140K. What's the problem? It's not like putting emacs in the base install or anything. I still run FreeBSD on a 386/40 with a 40M MFM main drive, and even so I'm not worried about the bloat of adding DHCP. Lots of people have been asking about DHCP on the lists and the newsgroups, probably because DSL/cablemodems are becoming more readily available (at least in the US). Windows comes with DHCP. Heck, even my old Mac IIci running System 7.5.5 comes with DHCP. It's small and increasingly useful, why not make it part of the base distribution? Or would you rather have FreeBSD be like RedHat, where you have to install an RPM for just about everything? Personally, I'd like to see DHCP in /usr/src because that makes it easier to integrate with PicoBSD. - Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On 09-Feb-99 Steve Kargl wrote: So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. Yes, of course, I need a pop server to install freesbsd.. NOT. Lots of places use DHCP and in some cases you can't actually use the network without a DHCP client (cable modems, some campuses etc) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
I agree. having a DHCP client can make the difference between being able to get ont he net at all and not being able to get on the net. On 9 Feb 1999, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu writes: Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. None of these are necessary on an average workstation. DHCP is becoming more and more common. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Hi, ...sorry, I just didn't get it ... On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 04:32:39PM -0800, Steve Kargl wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and ^^ ^^^ ! client ! src/sbin/ in a few days. [...] If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. Read his statement again; the (IMHO very valuable) itention is to be able to build a sysinstall boot floppy for network-installations without having the installing person go through the hassle of setting up a _static_ ip configuration. (Especially if the workstation should be a dhcp client later on.) Furthermore I know more than one network where 'dhcp' is the only mean to get a valid ip-configuration. Scenario: User-A wants to setup his brand new FreeBSD-workstation: [without dhcp-client on boot-disk] - boot the bootdisk ;) - choose distribution media 'ftp' or 'nfs' - get to the network-configuration screen - don't find a knob named 'use dhcp' - yell after the net-admin Hey, ... I need a static IP, which one should I use? [ - The ever-friendly net-admin is not available - wait several days ... ;) ] - install / configure the machine for the static ip - cd /usr/ports/net/dhcp*; make make install; - change the machine's configuration (/etc/rc.conf etc.) to make use of the dhcp-client - tell the net-admin that the static ip could now be 'recycled' [with dhcp-client on boot-disk] - boot the bootdisk ;) - choose distribution media 'ftp' or 'nfs' - get to the network-configuration screen - select 'use dhcp' - install - be happy Including a dhcp-client for the boot-disk is something very, very different from including various 'convenience' software in the base system. Regards, Andreas -- : TSE TeleService GmbH : Gsf: Arne Reuter: : : Hovestrasse 14: Andreas Braukmann : We do it with : : D-48351 Everswinkel : HRB: 1430, AG WAF : FreeBSD/SMP: :: : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Mike Holling m...@ees.com wrote: } If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we } need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the } boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and } perform an FTP installation. This would be really nifty for a lot of people. I've installed Windows NT about a zillion times due to its instability and tendencies to eat itself, but I always liked being able to say at the installation phase that I needed to use DHCP to get my IP address. } I built a static version of the WIDE client and server, both were only } around 140K. What's the problem? It's not like putting emacs in the base } install or anything. I still run FreeBSD on a 386/40 with a 40M MFM main } drive, and even so I'm not worried about the bloat of adding DHCP. Lots } of people have been asking about DHCP on the lists and the newsgroups, } probably because DSL/cablemodems are becoming more readily available (at } least in the US). People repeatedly ask me if FreeBSD comes with a DHCP client when I suggest it as an alternative to Linux. I always tell them You can build the port or install a precompiled package, and as easy as that is for people who are familiar with FreeBSD's wonderful ports and package systems, it still causes some people to shy away. } Windows comes with DHCP. Heck, even my old Mac IIci running System 7.5.5 } comes with DHCP. It's small and increasingly useful, why not make it part } of the base distribution? Or would you rather have FreeBSD be like } RedHat, where you have to install an RPM for just about everything? When someone can simply click a radio button or mark a check box in their network configuration in these operating systems, they seem to assume that having to do anything more than that will be too hard. I think that having this small client (which I have installed as a port) in the base operating system will get people to warm up to the idea of trying out FreeBSD. It's one less thing that inexperiencied people have to worry about. These new people may find it semi-frightening to have to remember all those numbers and have to type them in, possibly more than once if something goes wrong. -Patrick Patrick L. Hartling | Research Assistant, ICEMT myst...@friley-184-92.res.iastate.edu | Carver Lab - 0095E Black Engineering http://www.public.iastate.edu/~oz/ | http://www.icemt.iastate.edu/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Mike Holling wrote: If we want FreeBSD to have any credibility as a workstation OS, we need DHCP. It should be possible for a user or admin to smack in the boot floppy, have it autoconfigure the selected network interface, and perform an FTP installation. So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. Here are the regular (dynamically linked) versions of the ISC client and server: phluffy% ls -l =dhclient =dhcpd -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 86016 Nov 20 20:47 /usr/local/sbin/dhclient -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 90112 Nov 20 20:47 /usr/local/sbin/dhcpd It will probably go into /sbin, /bin, or /stand. These are statically linked exacutables. I built a static version of the WIDE client and server, both were only around 140K. What's the problem? It's not like putting emacs in the base install or anything. I still run FreeBSD on a 386/40 with a 40M MFM main drive, and even so I'm not worried about the bloat of adding DHCP. Lots Bloat by any other name is still bloat. Windows comes with DHCP. Heck, even my old Mac IIci running System 7.5.5 comes with DHCP. It's small and increasingly useful, why not make it part of the base distribution? Or would you rather have FreeBSD be like RedHat, where you have to install an RPM for just about everything? Where do you draw the line on the base system? Security is important so add tcp_wrappers? More and more documentation is released in html, so add apache? Once something is added to the base distribution, it seldomly gets removed? -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
:Mike Holling wrote: : :It will probably go into /sbin, /bin, or /stand. These are statically :linked exacutables. : : I built a static version of the WIDE client and server, both were only : around 140K. What's the problem? It's not like putting emacs in the base : install or anything. I still run FreeBSD on a 386/40 with a 40M MFM main : drive, and even so I'm not worried about the bloat of adding DHCP. Lots : :Bloat by any other name is still bloat. : : Windows comes with DHCP. Heck, even my old Mac IIci running System 7.5.5 : comes with DHCP. It's small and increasingly useful, why not make it part : of the base distribution? Or would you rather have FreeBSD be like : RedHat, where you have to install an RPM for just about everything? : :Where do you draw the line on the base system? Security is :important so add tcp_wrappers? More and more documentation is released :in html, so add apache? : :Once something is added to the base distribution, it seldomly :gets removed? : :-- :Steve I think what goes into the base distribution depends on where we think TheRestOfTheWorld is heading. dhcpd use has exploded in recent years and it is unlikely to go away for a long, long time. dhcpd also supports traditional bootp protocols such as those used by BOOTP kernels. I think it would be an excellent addition to our base system. However, someone needs to do a serious security check on it. I did a quick once-over of the code a few months ago and its security is extremely poor. For example, I had to commit some fairly serious bounds checking to dhcpd's ( I forget which version ) DNS resolution routines. Without a security audit, enabling the thing by default is just asking to get hacked. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:32:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Kargl s...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu said: So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. None of those things are required to get a machine onto the network. DHCP is, in a large and growing number of places. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same woll...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
I'm mostly interested in choosing the server part. I am NOT importing the server. Only the client and that is because it is required to get booted enought to install FreeBSD and to install packages. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
These should be left has ports. Explain how I am to install FreeBSD at my campus when DHCP has been mandated. Many univ. are moving in this direction. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. NO. Again, the problem is boot strapping. If you lived in a DHCP world (and not in control of it) you would understand. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Or would you rather have FreeBSD be like RedHat, where you have to install an RPM for just about everything? Actually RedHat's boot floopy has a BOOTP client and thus the Linux weenies on campus don't have the bootstrapping problem the FreeBSD users do. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
: : Or would you rather have FreeBSD be like RedHat, where you have to : install an RPM for just about everything? : :Actually RedHat's boot floopy has a BOOTP client and thus the Linux :weenies on campus don't have the bootstrapping problem the FreeBSD users :do. : :-- :-- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) I'm not sure I follow this. FreeBSD's kernel can be compiled up as a BOOTP client too. I use it all the time for my diskless ( well, floppy-only ) workstations. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
:Actually RedHat's boot floopy has a BOOTP client and thus the Linux :weenies on campus don't have the bootstrapping problem the FreeBSD users :do. I'm not sure I follow this. FreeBSD's kernel can be compiled up as a BOOTP client too. Sorry, add to that, and their sysinstall offers it as an option. Some people on campus have said they have been able to install RH Linux using the BOOTP option on the Linux boot floppy. Others have said it didn't work for them. -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
From: David O'Brien obr...@nuxi.com Subject: Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:27:57 -0800 These should be left has ports. Explain how I am to install FreeBSD at my campus when DHCP has been mandated. Many univ. are moving in this direction. Make sysinstall be able to pkg_add? We do something similar to that here with PicoBSD by creating the MFS to have slack space and extracting a supplemental archive into it. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghi...@bellsouth.net -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Make sysinstall be able to pkg_add? We do something similar to that And just WHERE is the package?? Often on an NFS or FTP server, no?? And just HOW am I to communicate with that NFS or FTP server?? -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
At 6:02 PM -0800 2/8/99, Steve Kargl wrote: Mike Holling wrote: ... What's the problem? It's not like putting emacs in the base install or anything. I still run FreeBSD on a 386/40 with a 40M MFM main drive, and even so I'm not worried about the bloat of adding DHCP. Bloat by any other name is still bloat. I think it is a very good idea to have DHCP client support in the base system. Note that I am on a campus which is heading for DHCP for pretty much all student-owned computers, and many campus-owned computers too. Windows comes with DHCP. Heck, even my old Mac IIci running System 7.5.5 comes with DHCP. It's small and increasingly useful, why not make it part of the base distribution? Where do you draw the line on the base system? How about things you need before you can send a single packet over the network? Particularly for those thinking of doing a network install of an operating system, this might be a good starting point. Every fall we have about 1100 students show up, and many of those students will want to have their computer up and running before they have their alarm clock plugged in. Realistically, the only way for us (the computer center) to deal with this logistical nightmare is thru DHCP. I do not see that changing anytime soon. Security is important so add tcp_wrappers? More and more documentation is released in html, so add apache? You don't need either of these to send a packet over our network. You do need DHCP (or you need to wait a week or two before you'll get a fixed IP address so you can use your machine on our network). Once something is added to the base distribution, it seldomly gets removed? From my environment, the chances that DHCP is going to go away anytime soon is zero. Not close to zero, but absolute zero. Given a situation where: 1) a user wants to do a network install (to get the latest version of everything) and 2) the user will not be able to use the network without DHCP support then what does that user have to do if a DHCP client is not part of the base system? At the same time, I do agree with Matthew Dillion's comment that it would be a very prudent idea if someone could do a code review of whatever DHCP client is chosen, so we have some confidence WRT security issues. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = g...@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or dro...@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
From: David O'Brien obr...@nuxi.com Make sysinstall be able to pkg_add? We do something similar to that And just WHERE is the package?? Often on an NFS or FTP server, no?? And just HOW am I to communicate with that NFS or FTP server?? Sorry. It's got to go somewhere offline. If not in the crunched /stand I'd guess it could live on the mfsroot floppy as an archive. I agree that DHCP is very important to have *somewhere* easy to use for both pre- and post- install purposes. We've produced a deviant PicoBSD that uses a different scheme for and uses shared libraries for greater flexibility. Of course, the price you pay is the static memory footprint required. As Jordan has mentioned, what we really need is a new dynamically sizable memory filesystem. I see that Eivind is doing something with getting NULLFS fixed. This is probably a very good step toward a more flexible setup environment. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghi...@bellsouth.net -- -- David(obr...@nuxi.com -or- obr...@freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
These should be left has ports. Can't really get away with that anymore - too many people require DHCP for very basic bootstrapping. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Make sysinstall be able to pkg_add? We do something similar to It can already pkg_add. However, I need dhcp in the crunched image since I can't very well GET a package if I don't have any bloody IP addresses to configure the network interface with and the user doesn't know what they are either. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl writes : Content-Type: text/BLOAT These should be left has ports. I can understand the people who need DHCP to get their systems up. OTOH, where does one draw the line. Is DHCP core functionality? Another issue to be taken into account: there is already a bootp daemon in the tree. Anyone putting any DHCP functionality in should look very seriously at any possibilities of combining the functionality, rather than creating what amounts to a degree of redundancy. (I haven't looked at DHCP-WIDE, and consequently, I don't know if it also supports bootp functionality.) I personally would prefer to see DHCP left a port. But, OTOH, more and more people are using dynamic IP address assignment on their networks. (Not an easy one.) Geoff. -- Geoff Rehmet, The Internet Solution geo...@is.co.za; ge...@rucus.ru.ac.za; c...@freebsd.org tel: +27-83-292-5800 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
In article 19990209074440.15845.qmail.kithrup.freebsd.curr...@rucus.ru.ac.za you write: Is DHCP core functionality? As much as an editor and PPP are, yes -- without it, some people simply *cannot* get on the net. Anyone putting any DHCP functionality in should look very seriously at any possibilities of combining the functionality, rather than creating what amounts to a degree of redundancy. I think isc-dhcp can do both; however, it may only be the server that has that functionality. I personally would prefer to see DHCP left a port. How would someone on a network and without a CD-ROM install it? (I recently had the joy of doing this, incidently... I ended up unplugging one of the other computers and using is IP address until the installation was complete.) That, I believe, is the reason that it's time to consider putting it in. (I've only used the ISC code, and, for several reasons, am biased in its favour, but I don't think it really matters.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
David O'Brien wrote: Make sysinstall be able to pkg_add? We do something similar to that And just WHERE is the package?? Often on an NFS or FTP server, no?? And just HOW am I to communicate with that NFS or FTP server?? Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
David O'Brien wrote: So, we'll import a pop server, apache, g77, ad nauseam to increase the credibility of FreeBSD as a workstation OS. NO. Again, the problem is boot strapping. If you lived in a DHCP world (and not in control of it) you would understand. I do live in a dhcp world, but our net admins appreciate the fact my machines are up 7/24 and serve my research group, so they have given me a fixed ip. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On 09-Feb-99 Steve Kargl wrote: And just WHERE is the package?? Often on an NFS or FTP server, no?? And just HOW am I to communicate with that NFS or FTP server?? Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt Excuse me sir.. I am but a poor student.. Or I'd like to play with FreeBSD, but I'd rather not fork out US$30 for something I haven't tested. etc.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
David O'Brien wrote: These should be left has ports. Explain how I am to install FreeBSD at my campus when DHCP has been mandated. Many univ. are moving in this direction. Maybe, support WC by purchasing the cd-rom? Convince your University to get a large quantity of cd-roms from WC and resell the disks to the students? -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl wrote in message ID 199902090600.waa65...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu: Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt So you are suggesting we no longer supporting FTP installs? Do you realise what impact that would have? I guess you haven't seen the dramatic increase in cablemodem and ADSL/SDSL/HDSL/IDSL installations which don't offer static IP's and require running DHCP clients? Let alone all the M$ infested corporate environments? Heck, I even recommend running DHCP to people! Why? It makes roaming between work and home with a laptop 10 times easier! IMHO, requiring a CD to install in a DHCP environment is like requiring a GPS before getting a driving license. Something that a case could be made for, but it'd hold water about as well as a wire mesh fence. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
David O'Brien wrote: These should be left has ports. Explain how I am to install FreeBSD at my campus when DHCP has been mandated. Many univ. are moving in this direction. Maybe, support WC by purchasing the cd-rom? Convince your University to get a large quantity of cd-roms from WC and resell the disks to the students? If the user had the CD, they wouldn't need DHCP to install the OS. Obviously the reason to put DHCP on the boot floppy is so that people can netinstall FreeBSD from an environment where IPs are handed out via DHCP, like a cablemodem/DSL setup. - Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl wrote in message ID 199902090603.waa65...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu: I do live in a dhcp world, but our net admins appreciate the fact my machines are up 7/24 and serve my research group, so they have given me a fixed ip. That argument won't work with Media-One, Roadrunner, RCN, etc who just simply *DO* *NOT* *SUPPORT* *STATIC* *IP* *ASSIGNMENTS*. How can we make this any clearer to you? Its fine to say `I don't want to see DHCP in the base system' when you have the choice of getting a static IP. A lot of the emerging high-speed access providers aren't giving you that option. Gary -- Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl wrote: David O'Brien wrote: These should be left has ports. Explain how I am to install FreeBSD at my campus when DHCP has been mandated. Many univ. are moving in this direction. Maybe, support WC by purchasing the cd-rom? Convince your University to get a large quantity of cd-roms from WC and resell the disks to the students? Or convince FreeBSD developers to simply add a DHCP client to the base sources and build a boot/install floppy with that functionality. No user cost. No user hassle. Why not?! Sigh. -- John Birrell - j...@cimlogic.com.au; j...@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Wrong! The dhcp client is ESSENTIAL to boot floppies for modern use. As for bloat, one man's bloat is another's essential material :-( On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Steve Kargl wrote: Joe Abley wrote: On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 02:28:20PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ Content-Type: text/BLOAT These should be left has ports. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Remember that the client, relay, and server are all independent items. Each MUST meet the same RFC specification. On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Andreas Braukmann wrote: On Mon, Feb 08, 1999 at 02:28:20PM -0800, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and I'm mostly interested in choosing the server part. In the past I deployed only the wide-dhcp server from the ports collection; but only because I somehow decided to test the wide-dhcp before the isc one. A few days ago I had a look (triggered by a piece of samba documentation) at isc-dhcp and found the configuration syntax somewhat more user friendly. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
I am glad to see some SOME version of the dhcp client included in base floppies. However, I must take exception to David's choice for any purpose other than single floppy situations. Although it is somewhat larger, the ISC dhcp2 client has significantly more flexability WRT options beyond the bare basics. I would recommend that the default client on HD based systems be the ISC client because of that flexability. Further, the assertion that it is easier to configure the WIDE client is WRONG. The ISC CLIENT requires NO configuration. I don't see how anything can be simpler. :-) Unfortunately, David persists in spreading this mis-information. On, 8 Feb 1999, David O'Brien wrote: I am planning on adding the Wide-DHCP client to src/contrib/ and src/sbin/ in a few days. I have it bmaked and ready go to. I have choosen the WIDE client because it is much smaller space-wise than the ISC client and its configuration is simplier. The plan is to make a boot floppy / boot CDROM with a DHCP client on it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On 09-Feb-99 Charlie ROOT wrote: Further, the assertion that it is easier to configure the WIDE client is WRONG. The ISC CLIENT requires NO configuration. I don't see how anything can be simpler. :-) Hmmm.. This annoyed me actually.. There is NO config file which means its damn annoying for you to tweak how it works.. Almost like a windows app really :) The WIDE client's default config file is usually quite OK. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Gary Palmer wrote: Steve Kargl wrote in message ID 199902090600.waa65...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu: Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt [watch the long lines] So you are suggesting we no longer supporting FTP installs? Do you realise what impact that would have? I guess you haven't seen the dramatic increase in cablemodem and ADSL/SDSL/HDSL/IDSL installations which don't offer static IP's and require running DHCP clients? Let alone all the M$ infested corporate environments? Heck, I even recommend running DHCP to people! Why? It makes roaming between work and home with a laptop 10 times easier! No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Why? Paraphasing David's original email: david I have DHCP-WIDE bmake'd. I going to commit if no one objects. It would have been helpful if he would have given some justification. Without critical discussion of each candidate for inclusion in the base distribution, the system will grow without bounds. Trying to remove something from the base is somewhat difficult. Search mailing list for a recent discussion about removing f2c. I have a f2c port and more robust f77(1) sitting here waiting. Inertia. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Sean Eric Fagan writes : In article 19990209074440.15845.qmail.kithrup.freebsd.curr...@rucus.ru.ac.za you write: Is DHCP core functionality? As much as an editor and PPP are, yes -- without it, some people simply *cannot* get on the net. Your point is valid. Before it goes in, there are some points to look at though: - Integration with bootp functionality (if possible) - DHCP-WIDE requires you to have bpf configured into your kernel for a GENERIC kernel, this is VERY BAD - is there a more elegant way to handle this? I certainly would not like to see the generic kernel in the distribution going out into the world with bpf enabled. Geoff. -- Geoff Rehmet, The Internet Solution geo...@is.co.za; ge...@rucus.ru.ac.za; c...@freebsd.org tel: +27-83-292-5800 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
John Birrell wrote: Steve Kargl wrote: David O'Brien wrote: These should be left has ports. Explain how I am to install FreeBSD at my campus when DHCP has been mandated. Many univ. are moving in this direction. Maybe, support WC by purchasing the cd-rom? Convince your University to get a large quantity of cd-roms from WC and resell the disks to the students? Or convince FreeBSD developers to simply add a DHCP client to the base sources and build a boot/install floppy with that functionality. No user cost. No user hassle. Why not?! Sigh. David's original email said he was going to commit without giving a justification. I call it bloat, then the justifications pour in. I'm now convinced it may be a good thing with a security audit. However, if every committer starting to push his (pet) software as candidate for the base distribution, then the base will grow without bounds. How long did it take to kill tcl from the base distribution, and how long will it take to kill f2c? -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Gary Palmer wrote: Steve Kargl wrote in message ID 199902090603.waa65...@troutmask.apl.washington.edu: I do live in a dhcp world, but our net admins appreciate the fact my machines are up 7/24 and serve my research group, so they have given me a fixed ip. That argument won't work with Media-One, Roadrunner, RCN, etc who just simply *DO* *NOT* *SUPPORT* *STATIC* *IP* *ASSIGNMENTS*. How can we make this any clearer to you? Its fine to say `I don't want to see DHCP in the base system' when you have the choice of getting a static IP. A lot of the emerging high-speed access providers aren't giving you that option. Then, *BUY* the cd-rom and support the FreeBSD project. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Steve Kargl wrote: David's original email said he was going to commit without giving a justification. I call it bloat, then the justifications pour in. I'm now convinced it may be a good thing with a security audit. However, if every committer starting to push his (pet) software as candidate for the base distribution, then the base will grow without bounds. How long did it take to kill tcl from the base distribution, and how long will it take to kill f2c? IMHO, Just Do It. Ask David. 8-) -- John Birrell - j...@cimlogic.com.au; j...@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
Daniel O'Connor wrote: On 09-Feb-99 Steve Kargl wrote: And just WHERE is the package?? Often on an NFS or FTP server, no?? And just HOW am I to communicate with that NFS or FTP server?? Drop FreeBSD cd-rom into tray (or caddy). mount_cd9660 /dev/cd0a /mnt pkg_add dhcp umount /mnt Excuse me sir.. I am but a poor student.. Or I'd like to play with FreeBSD, but I'd rather not fork out US$30 for something I haven't tested. Cheapbytes. -- Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
In article xfmail.990209165224.doconnor.kithrup.freebsd.curr...@gsoft.com.au you write: Hmmm.. This annoyed me actually.. There is NO config file which means its damn annoying for you to tweak how it works.. Would you please settle on a set of misinformation and stick with it? isc-dhcp's client *does* have a very extensive configuration file. Same parser as the server. In 99.9% of cases, it needs to be a 0-length file. In some other cases, it needs to be configured. Due to a bug in the version of isc-dhcpd at work, for example, I needed to have a /etc/dhclient.conf file that looked like: send dhcp-client-identifier sef-laptop; There are a bunch of things I could specify. Interestingly enough, they're documented in dhclient.conf(5), which comes with the isc-dhcp package. So: not only does isc-dhcp have extensive configuration options, but, in the common case, it's not needed at all. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: adding DHCP client to src/contrib/
On 09-Feb-99 Steve Kargl wrote: Or I'd like to play with FreeBSD, but I'd rather not fork out US$30 for something I haven't tested. Cheapbytes. Argument still holds.. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
