Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
On Sat, Dec 15, 2001 at 04:43:37PM -0800, Matthew Dillon wrote: I am aware that certain long-standing RMS-specific projects, like emacs, require people who submit patches to sign-over their copyright, but I am not aware of people generally signing the copyright for their own GPL'd works over to the FSF. RMS wnats people to, but as far as I can tell most people have no desire to. All GNU projects appear to work this way. Contributions/patches are not accepted until you have completed paperwork with the FSF. I didn't realize how common this was myself until I started hacking on guile. I don't hack on it anymore. Cheers, -- Jacques A. Vidrine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nectar.cc/ NTT/Verio SME . FreeBSD UNIX .Heimdal Kerberos [EMAIL PROTECTED] . [EMAIL PROTECTED] . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
From: Terry Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] The rights are assigned, with the terms being in consideration for examination of the submission (it's not a contract unless there is consideration and exchange). Don't bet on it ! Law Is a mess or a nightmare, variable by time location, etc, best avoided :-) EG: It can depend which legal jurisdicition one is in. I'm British, there's a difference I believe between English Scottish contract law (Wales NI using English contract law). One jurisdicition requires at least a nominal amount of money to exchange for a contract, whereas the other allows a contract without money involved; which way round I don't remember. I've no idea on Germany law (where I am now), no idea whether your USA federal law chose to adopt a model from England, Scotland, Germany or some other imigrants way back, or whether that would be federal or variable state law. Not that USA law is of particular importance anyway, it's merely the address of FSF a bunch of programmers, but not the address of many other people sites. I think some jurisdictions also probably won't consider things as a legal contract unless it bears a stamp affixed (a tax revenue raiser). Julian J.StaceyMunich Unix (FreeBSD, Linux etc) Independent Consultant Reduce costs to secure jobs: Use free software: http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/free/ Ihr Rauchen = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz ! Schnupftabak probieren ! To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
: :Just to balance this point out; : :Only the copyright holder can do this, what code of any significance has :RMS contributed recently to this or any other project where this would be :a consideration? : :Uh, people have been signing their copyright over to FSF for a long :time... : :-- :Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 I am aware that certain long-standing RMS-specific projects, like emacs, require people who submit patches to sign-over their copyright, but I am not aware of people generally signing the copyright for their own GPL'd works over to the FSF. RMS wnats people to, but as far as I can tell most people have no desire to. -Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
Matthew Dillon wrote: I am aware that certain long-standing RMS-specific projects, like emacs, require people who submit patches to sign-over their copyright, but I am not aware of people generally signing the copyright for their own GPL'd works over to the FSF. RMS wnats people to, but as far as I can tell most people have no desire to. The way ReiserFS does this is to affix a contract to the CVS change submission, or require that the contract be manually affixed to any email submissions. The rights are assigned, with the terms being in consideration for examination of the submission (it's not a contract unless there is consideration and exchange). The FSF handles this slightly differently, but the practical matter of the assignment is in effect the same. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
:The way ReiserFS does this is to affix a contract to the CVS change :submission, or require that the contract be manually affixed to any :email submissions. : :The rights are assigned, with the terms being in consideration for :examination of the submission (it's not a contract unless there is :consideration and exchange). : :The FSF handles this slightly differently, but the practical matter :of the assignment is in effect the same. : :-- Terry Yes, and I'm planning on doing something similar with the Backplane Database. It's a good idea, just not a good idea to assign your own works to someone else (e.g. not the FSF). The FSF can do whatever they want with their own code and can ask contributors to assign rights to them, but it is totally inappropriate for them to ask people to assign the copyright for other unrelated GPL'd works to them. Also, the latest version of the GPL in my view weakens it terribly. The way it reads, the copyright is not the copyright in the file but the latest copyright on FSF's site (which theoretically allows the FSF to update the copyright and have the new version automatically apply to preexisting works). I don't think it's even close to being legal. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
[OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
+---[ Terry Lambert ]-- | | RMS has indicated a willingness to sue people distributing bipartite | distributions, where the linking is delayed until installation to | work around the letter of the GPL. Given his religious convictions, | I can't see him *not*. Factor that into your decision. Just to balance this point out; Only the copyright holder can do this, what code of any significance has RMS contributed recently to this or any other project where this would be a consideration? Not everyone has the religious conviction of RMS. In 1983 RMS promised a kernel for GNU too, it hasn't arrived yet. He talks a lot. Remeber to factor that into your decisions d8) -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | | ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andrew Kenneth Milt on writes: +---[ Terry Lambert ]-- | | RMS has indicated a willingness to sue people distributing bipartite | distributions, where the linking is delayed until installation to | work around the letter of the GPL. Given his religious convictions, | I can't see him *not*. Factor that into your decision. Just to balance this point out; Only the copyright holder can do this, what code of any significance has RMS contributed recently to this or any other project where this would be a consideration? Uh, people have been signing their copyright over to FSF for a long time... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
hi, why would RMS sue, lets say me, for porting IBM's piece of GPL'ed code to FreeBSD src/gnu. What i will be doing (if the votes come out positive), will be exactly as how his law says... --- Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andrew Kenneth Milt on writes: +---[ Terry Lambert ]-- | | RMS has indicated a willingness to sue people distributing bipartite | distributions, where the linking is delayed until installation to | work around the letter of the GPL. Given his religious convictions, | I can't see him *not*. Factor that into your decision. Just to balance this point out; Only the copyright holder can do this, what code of any significance has RMS contributed recently to this or any other project where this would be a consideration? Uh, people have been signing their copyright over to FSF for a long time... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message = -Hiten, Thank You, Yours Sincerely, Hiten Pandya, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/hitmaster2k __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: +---[ Terry Lambert ]-- | RMS has indicated a willingness to sue people distributing bipartite | distributions, where the linking is delayed until installation to | work around the letter of the GPL. Given his religious convictions, | I can't see him *not*. Factor that into your decision. Just to balance this point out; Only the copyright holder can do this, what code of any significance has RMS contributed recently to this or any other project where this would be a consideration? I can't argue with that; historically, IBM has never sued anyone, and they were oh so happy to consider another license for the year I tried to push for it for use in a FreeBSD based IBM product. Not. 8^p -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
+---[ Poul-Henning Kamp ]-- | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andrew Kenneth Milt | on writes: | +---[ Terry Lambert ]-- | | | | RMS has indicated a willingness to sue people distributing bipartite | | distributions, where the linking is delayed until installation to | | work around the letter of the GPL. Given his religious convictions, | | I can't see him *not*. Factor that into your decision. | | Just to balance this point out; | | Only the copyright holder can do this, what code of any significance has | RMS contributed recently to this or any other project where this would be | a consideration? | | Uh, people have been signing their copyright over to FSF for a long | time... That still doesn't answer the question though. I'm pretty sure IBM didn't sign *their* copyright over to the FSF. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | | ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
+---[ Terry Lambert ]-- | | Only the copyright holder can do this, what code of any significance has | RMS contributed recently to this or any other project where this would be | a consideration? | | I can't argue with that; historically, IBM has never sued anyone, and | they were oh so happy to consider another license for the year I tried | to push for it for use in a FreeBSD based IBM product. Not. Of course not, the GPL protects them from competitors taking and improving their product and selling it at a profit without having to share. Ironic isn't it, that the GPL has become a tool of the oppressors d8) -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | | ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
Hiten Pandya wrote: why would RMS sue, lets say me, for porting IBM's piece of GPL'ed code to FreeBSD src/gnu. RMS wouldn't, not being directly involved. IBM might. I am a former IBM employee, of IBM GSB division (Global Small Business). I became an IBM employee when IBM bought Whistle Communications, Inc., which produced a SOHO connectivity product called the InterJet. This became the basis of the IBM Web Connections offering (the purchase of Whistle was portrayed as a time-to-market decision). The InterJet II product is what funded the Soft Updates port to FreeBSD. The idea was to get rid of the internal UPS that was otherwise required, to reduce the COGS (Cost Of Goods Sold). With Soft Updates, we were able to replace the UPS with a power supply with a large DC holdup time, and AC fail notification. This work occured mostly before the IBM acquisition. When the GPL JFS was announced, I tried within IBM for a year to get the code under other terms for use in an IBM GSB product, specifically, the InterJet. The people involved were on a religious/marketing GPL crusade, however. If we had been able to use a JFS, we would have been able to get rid of the remainder of the extra cost in the power supply, and get our costs down further, by using an off-the-shelf supply. Despite the fact that this was costing another division of IBM money, the people releasing the JFS refused to relicense, even for internal use only, the JFS code that they were giving away to the Linux community (I'm sure that, if the AIX people had the code, that it was possible, were we to commit a large enough chunk of our operating budget, to get the code from the AIX people, but the amortized cost of this would not have reduced our COGS). With JFS under non-GPL'ed terms, we wuld have been able to get perhaps another $120 per unit out of the final end customer cost. In the U.S., this would have let us drop our subscription cost $10/month. In Japan, it would have dropped ~20,000 Yen from the total per unit cost. Forgive me if I don't think that someone outside IBM is going to have any better luck than a group of high band people inside IBM who could demonstrate a business case pertinenet to IBMs financial interests. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: | I can't argue with that; historically, IBM has never sued anyone, and | they were oh so happy to consider another license for the year I tried | to push for it for use in a FreeBSD based IBM product. Not. Of course not, the GPL protects them from competitors taking and improving their product and selling it at a profit without having to share. Ironic isn't it, that the GPL has become a tool of the oppressors d8) Perhaps you missed the fact that I was *ALSO* IBM at the time. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: [OT] RMS Suing was [SUGGESTION] - JFS for FreeBSD
+---[ Terry Lambert ]-- | Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote: | | I can't argue with that; historically, IBM has never sued anyone, and | | they were oh so happy to consider another license for the year I tried | | to push for it for use in a FreeBSD based IBM product. Not. | | Of course not, the GPL protects them from competitors taking and improving | their product and selling it at a profit without having to share. Ironic | isn't it, that the GPL has become a tool of the oppressors d8) | | Perhaps you missed the fact that I was *ALSO* IBM at the time. I didn't. I wasn't saying you were a competitor, just that the GPL is a convenient license for corporations to use. IBM are bigger than most governments, were you surprised that the bureaucracy is too? -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | | ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
