Re: possible simple install-info fix
Ruslan Ermilov wrote: On Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 02:08:55PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: Hi, I was looking into fixing the install-info problem, and wondered if the solution is really as easy as it seems: Hmmm I had been thinking all along that the problem with install-info was that the system couldn't use the new binary. Are you saying here that installworld is trying to use the old version of install-info that is installed in the system? Please say it isn't so... Yes, it is using the old binary. Eeek. There were plans (Marcel?) to commit an installation tools support into src/Makefile.inc1, but it was postponed until 4.0-RELEASE is done. This is now happened, and I expect Marcel committing his staff soon. Ok, sounds like you guys have it under control. If the fix was this "easy," I really wish that someone had pushed for its inclusion in 4.0-Release. This is going to be a big problem for people, and there are enough hurdles into 4.0 already. :-/ Doug -- "While the future's there for anyone to change, still you know it seems, it would be easier sometimes to change the past" - Jackson Browne, "Fountain of Sorrow" To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: possible simple install-info fix
Doug Barton wrote: Ok, sounds like you guys have it under control. If the fix was this "easy," I really wish that someone had pushed for its inclusion in 4.0-Release. This is going to be a big problem for people, and there are enough hurdles into 4.0 already. :-/ There was some confusion. I thought the feature freeze was in december and the code freeze in januari. I didn't make it in januari and was "unavailable" in februari and this fix is not one you rush in (IMO of course). It has been posted before and noone thought it was urgent enough to rush it in anyway... The bottomline is known... BTW: If a fix is easy, then that doesn't mean that it isn't potentially dangerous :-) -- Marcel Moolenaar mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: (408) 447-4222 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: possible simple install-info fix
Ruslan Ermilov wrote: I was looking into fixing the install-info problem, and wondered if the solution is really as easy as it seems: Hmmm I had been thinking all along that the problem with install-info was that the system couldn't use the new binary. Are you saying here that installworld is trying to use the old version of install-info that is installed in the system? Please say it isn't so... Yes, it is using the old binary. There were plans (Marcel?) to commit an installation tools support into src/Makefile.inc1, but it was postponed until 4.0-RELEASE is done. This is now happened, and I expect Marcel committing his staff soon. All that needs to be done is build install-info by the bootstrap-tools stage. It will then be used throughout the build and install stages (after applying the patch :-). This of course assumes that the new install-info is backward compatible with the previous version. The bootstrap-tools stage is designed to solve incompatibilities caused by versions of tools installed on the system and the requirements (for newer ones) by the source-tree. If install-info is needed to do installworld, shouldn't it be considered a build tool, with all of the build platform/install platform gymnastics that implies? install-info is already built as part of build-tools stage, but there are two problems. This is a bug. If install-info is installed, then it isn't a build tool. Build tools are programs/scripts that are needed to build the sources only. They are not installed. Since install-info is installed, it can't be a build tool. this means that we either use the installed version or use a freshly built version made during the bootstrap stage. First, it is not currently used at the installworld stage, which Marcel's patch fixes. Correct. Installworld is using installed binaries (even though newer ones have been made by the bootstrap stage) *and* it is using binaries it has installed already and which may not even be runnable by the current kernel. Second, less important (IMHO), is a cross building issue. Consider the case, when you want to build 4.0 alpha world on 3.x i386 system, and then install it (world) on alpha running 3.x. It was discussed about month ago on -current... I don't consider this less important. Having the ability to do cross builds helps maintaining FreeBSD on multiple platforms and also helps in porting to new platforms. -- Marcel Moolenaar mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: (408) 447-4222 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: possible simple install-info fix
On Thu, Mar 16, 2000 at 09:57:22AM -0800, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: Ruslan Ermilov wrote: I was looking into fixing the install-info problem, and wondered if the solution is really as easy as it seems: Hmmm I had been thinking all along that the problem with install-info was that the system couldn't use the new binary. Are you saying here that installworld is trying to use the old version of install-info that is installed in the system? Please say it isn't so... Yes, it is using the old binary. There were plans (Marcel?) to commit an installation tools support into src/Makefile.inc1, but it was postponed until 4.0-RELEASE is done. This is now happened, and I expect Marcel committing his staff soon. All that needs to be done is build install-info by the bootstrap-tools stage. It will then be used throughout the build and install stages (after applying the patch :-). This of course assumes that the new install-info is backward compatible with the previous version. It is (install-info) already there (in bootstrap-tools), and just awaiting your patch to be committed :-) Then we could remove that `make -DNOFINO installworld, make installworld' bogosity from src/UPDATING. The bootstrap-tools stage is designed to solve incompatibilities caused by versions of tools installed on the system and the requirements (for newer ones) by the source-tree. If install-info is needed to do installworld, shouldn't it be considered a build tool, with all of the build platform/install platform gymnastics that implies? install-info is already built as part of build-tools stage, but there are two problems. This is a bug. If install-info is installed, then it isn't a build tool. Build tools are programs/scripts that are needed to build the sources only. They are not installed. Since install-info is installed, it can't be a build tool. this means that we either use the installed version or use a freshly built version made during the bootstrap stage. Silly me, I meant bootstrap-tools. There are so many *-tools stages, that one is easy to get lost :-) First, it is not currently used at the installworld stage, which Marcel's patch fixes. Correct. Installworld is using installed binaries (even though newer ones have been made by the bootstrap stage) *and* it is using binaries it has installed already and which may not even be runnable by the current kernel. Second, less important (IMHO), is a cross building issue. Consider the case, when you want to build 4.0 alpha world on 3.x i386 system, and then install it (world) on alpha running 3.x. It was discussed about month ago on -current... I don't consider this less important. Having the ability to do cross builds helps maintaining FreeBSD on multiple platforms and also helps in porting to new platforms. Umm, I was unclean. It seems to be of less priority. -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the [EMAIL PROTECTED]United Commercial Bank, [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD committer, +380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: possible simple install-info fix
Ruslan Ermilov wrote: This is a bug. If install-info is installed, then it isn't a build tool. Build tools are programs/scripts that are needed to build the sources only. They are not installed. Since install-info is installed, it can't be a build tool. this means that we either use the installed version or use a freshly built version made during the bootstrap stage. Silly me, I meant bootstrap-tools. There are so many *-tools stages, that one is easy to get lost :-) Yeah. I thought about adding another one just for the unadultery heck of it, but changed my mind :-) Second, less important (IMHO), is a cross building issue. Consider the case, when you want to build 4.0 alpha world on 3.x i386 system, and then install it (world) on alpha running 3.x. It was discussed about month ago on -current... I don't consider this less important. Having the ability to do cross builds helps maintaining FreeBSD on multiple platforms and also helps in porting to new platforms. Umm, I was unclean. It seems to be of less priority. Ah, ok. I misunderstood what you ment here. To be a bit more concrete (rather than being chatty): I hope to find the time soon to update the patch to match the current source tree (this requires some testing time/resources) after which we can all review it again before I commit it. To speed things up, you are of course welcome to be pro-active (damn, my work environment already gets to me :-) -- Marcel Moolenaar mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: (408) 447-4222 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: possible simple install-info fix
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: Hi, I was looking into fixing the install-info problem, and wondered if the solution is really as easy as it seems: Hmmm I had been thinking all along that the problem with install-info was that the system couldn't use the new binary. Are you saying here that installworld is trying to use the old version of install-info that is installed in the system? Please say it isn't so... If install-info is needed to do installworld, shouldn't it be considered a build tool, with all of the build platform/install platform gymnastics that implies? FWIW, I agree that fixing this will significantly lower the bar for 3.x - 4.0 upgrades. Doug -- "While the future's there for anyone to change, still you know it seems, it would be easier sometimes to change the past" - Jackson Browne, "Fountain of Sorrow" To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: possible simple install-info fix
On Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 02:08:55PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: Hi, I was looking into fixing the install-info problem, and wondered if the solution is really as easy as it seems: Hmmm I had been thinking all along that the problem with install-info was that the system couldn't use the new binary. Are you saying here that installworld is trying to use the old version of install-info that is installed in the system? Please say it isn't so... Yes, it is using the old binary. There were plans (Marcel?) to commit an installation tools support into src/Makefile.inc1, but it was postponed until 4.0-RELEASE is done. This is now happened, and I expect Marcel committing his staff soon. If install-info is needed to do installworld, shouldn't it be considered a build tool, with all of the build platform/install platform gymnastics that implies? install-info is already built as part of build-tools stage, but there are two problems. First, it is not currently used at the installworld stage, which Marcel's patch fixes. Second, less important (IMHO), is a cross building issue. Consider the case, when you want to build 4.0 alpha world on 3.x i386 system, and then install it (world) on alpha running 3.x. It was discussed about month ago on -current... FWIW, I agree that fixing this will significantly lower the bar for 3.x - 4.0 upgrades. Sure. -- Ruslan Ermilov Sysadmin and DBA of the [EMAIL PROTECTED]United Commercial Bank, [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD committer, +380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve http://www.oracle.com Enabling The Information Age To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
