Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[Marty Leisner]

My take on computer science (which is an oxymoron) is this:

Researchers look at successful programmers and try to figure out
what they're doing.

In the 70s, it was "structured programming".

In the late 80s it was "object oriented".


You can manipulate the data with a struct -- put in function pointers
to methods -- which is a crude way to do polymorphism.

Don't forget -- cfront translated C++ into C code...

OO doesn't promote reuse -- good design promotes reuse.  I've been
reusing code for years.   I'm like Will Tracz -- a used program salesman ;-)
I've reused a lot of procedural code.

One of my coworkers took a C++ course, renamed her "structs" to "classes"
and thought she was doing object-oriented stuff...please...!!

The bottom line is can other people understand your program.
What I've seen is you have far less of a chance in C++ than in C.
I've recently read Stroustrup's book and got more involved in C++ --
it seems the principle of least surprise was thrown out the window.


marty

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Re: ER schema design

[Murray Taylor]

/usr/ports/graphics/tcm  ?

Has all sorts of diagram capabilities..
ER DTD UML ...


On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 16:52, Chris Pressey wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:17:42 +0100
> "R.T.G. TAN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Anyone know of a good program to create an ER diagram?
> > 
> > Tnx,
> > 
> > -- 
> > robert tan
> 
> I don't know if there is one specifically for ER diagrams, but Dia
> (/usr/ports/graphics/dia) has an ER sheet, if that's all you need.
> 
> -Chris
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> 
-- 
Murray Taylor
Special Projects Engineer
-
Bytecraft Systems & Entertainment
P: +61 3 8710 2555
F: +61 3 8710 2599
D: +61 3 9238 4275
M: +61 417 319 256
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit us on the web
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broadcom wireless support?

[Richard Jacoby]

I have a machine with a built in 54g broadcom wireless interface.  Is there a driver 
out there for this?  If not, is one planned?
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Re: ER schema design

[Chris Pressey]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:17:42 +0100
"R.T.G. TAN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Anyone know of a good program to create an ER diagram?
> 
> Tnx,
> 
> -- 
> robert tan

I don't know if there is one specifically for ER diagrams, but Dia
(/usr/ports/graphics/dia) has an ER sheet, if that's all you need.

-Chris
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RE: anti-spam and mailing lists

[Scott Hiemstra]

Looks to me like a manager of that list or server doesn't care for your IP
address / hostname or your ISP in general.  Coming from the ISP industry,
Optima Online is not very ISP friendly when it comes to playing nice with
others.

I would attempt to contact the list manager off-line or contact your ISP and
ask them to for you,
Scott



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zonesville
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: anti-spam and mailing lists


My email to freebsd-java is being bounced with the following error:

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

  Recipient address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
  Diagnostic code: smtp;554 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Sender address rejected:
Access denied
  Remote system: dns;mx1.freebsd.org
(TCP|167.206.5.69|37826|216.136.204.125|25) (mx1.FreeBSD.org
ESMTP Postfix [Postfix Rules!])

What anti-spam lists are the mailing lists using? I'd like to know so I can
try to get this
rectified.

Thanks,
-Kurt

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anti-spam and mailing lists

[Zonesville]

My email to freebsd-java is being bounced with the following error:

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

  Recipient address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
  Diagnostic code: smtp;554 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Sender address rejected: Access denied
  Remote system: dns;mx1.freebsd.org (TCP|167.206.5.69|37826|216.136.204.125|25) 
(mx1.FreeBSD.org
ESMTP Postfix [Postfix Rules!])

What anti-spam lists are the mailing lists using? I'd like to know so I can try to get 
this
rectified.

Thanks,
-Kurt

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Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[Erik Trulsson]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 09:36:15PM -0500, Lucas Holt wrote:
> 
> On Nov 12, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Marty Leisner wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >BTW -- I've been doing "object oriented" stuff in C for years --
> >its harder, but its doable.  You have a much simpler language
> >to deal with.
> >
> >First learn how to write good programs in C.
> >Then see if C++ buys you anything extra.
> >If it doesn't, you don't need C++.
> >But I've seen far too much C++ that's just obscure C.
> >
> >Just my experience and opinion.
> >
> >marty
> 
> Am I missing something here?  When does C have OO capability?  Structs 
> don't count.  What about inheritance and polymorphism?

You can write object oriented code in almost any language.
This does not mean that those languages have features that are intended
to facilitate writing object oriented code.

C does not directly support inheritance or polymorphism, but it is
quite easy to "fake" it by hand.  A bit more work than if you had done
it in C++, but quite doable.

> 
> To me a struct is like a VCR with no record button.  You can view the 
> content, but you can't manipulate it with the struct.  If i want to do 
> something to destroy the tape, I must apply a magnet from an outside 
> source (much like a plain old function).  And classes provide security, 
> much like the tab on the front of the tape.  The data is private if the 
> tab is puched out.  (ok thats a bad analogy)
> 
> If C had OO features, then why do we have C++ and Objective C?

Because C does not really have any OO features.
You can write OO code in C, but it is easier to do it in C++ or
Objective C, or some other OO langauge like Smalltalk.

> 
> I would agree that you can write programs that do the same thing in all 
> three languages above, but I don't think that OO is a waste of time.  
> OO promotes code reuse.  That is the whole point.
> 
> Using C++ implies a state of mind.  You can write code like in C, but 
> it defeats the purpose of using an OO language.

C++ is not really an OO langauge.  It is a language with features that
support writing OO programs, but it also has features that help writing
programs in other styles.
That is actually my main complaint against C++.  It has so many
features, and so many special cases that it is almost impossible to
actually understand the whole language.  This means that you either
have to restrict yourself to a small subset of the language (in which
case you probably better off using some other language) or run into
surprises when things don't work as you would expect.
IMO, C++ is almost never the best language for any particular task (but
on the other hand it is almost never the worst language either.)


-- 

Erik Trulsson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Couldn't modiry the configuration files, when the bsd machine is booted in single mode

[Kent Stewart]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 08:06 pm, fred wrote:
>Hi, My machine with the freebsd 4.6 is crashed, when I use
>theboot -scommand to enter the single mode, I found I
>couldn't modiry the configr   the whole filesytem is readonly. Could
> any one show me a way? Regards, Fred Zhang

most of the time "mount -a" works just fine. If it doesn't you can mount the 
ones that you need rw.

Kent

-- 
Kent Stewart
Richland, WA

http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html

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Couldn't modiry the configuration files, when the bsd machine is booted in single mode

[fred]

   Hi, My machine with the freebsd 4.6 is crashed, when I use
   theboot -scommand to enter the single mode, I found I
   couldn't modiry the configr= ation files of the system.   It seems
   the whole filesytem is readonly. Could any one show me a way?
 Regards, Fred Zhang
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Re: Sparc64 (Ultra 10) Install emulation

[Tillman Hodgson]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 04:55:19PM -0800, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 04:40:53PM -0700, Aaron Brandt wrote:
> > 
> > Can someone tell me what I need to do to get FreeBSD Sparc 64 installed on
> > a Ultra Sparc 10. It seems as if the emulation is messed up. I have heard
> > of doing a serial install with a dumb terminal but cant find any
> > documentation on it. can someone point me to the correct place?
> 
> It's documented in the handbook somewhere.

I found installation without a serial console difficult as well when
setting up my Ultra 5 half a year ago.  Using the 'n' and 'p' (next and
previous) to navigate will likely get you going, Aaron.

The "real" console emulation /is/ a bit wonky, but the serial console is
much better and so is probably the recommended approach. Rather than a
serial terminal I'd suggest just using a null-modem cable connected to
another computer and something like FreeBSD's `tip`. Leaving this
permanently attached and running a getty on it is probably a good idea
too.

Note that a few folks (myself included) are having problems booting with
kernels from recent -current builds. You'll probably want to stick to
source from late October until that issue is resolved (or at least have
a backup kernel handy). If you start from 5.1R and decide to upgrade be
wary of the notes in UPDATING ... the 20030819 note is particularly
important as it may change your devices around a bit. This can be
annoying if your server is 3 hours drive away :-)

I recommend subscribing to the current and sparc64 mailing list when
running a Sun box. It's been a very stable server for me and our local
user group. I wouldn't mind a few more if anyone is giving them away
;-)

-T


-- 
Semiology has taught us that myth has the task of giving an historical
intention a natural justification, and making contingency appear eternal.
- Roland Barthes, _Mythologies_
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Re: a road to nowhere

[peter lageotakes]

Vittori,
Perhaps this link might help.

http://www.gnustep.org/resources/sources.html
or
in /usr/ports/devel/gnustep

Hope you find your perfect window manager.

Pete

--- ".VWV." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> 
> I still can't believe what people of GNOME and KDE
> have done. With GTK 1.x
> and KDE 2.x there were only some little adjustments
> missing, to obtain the
> 'perfect' desktop, compatible with GNUstep's
> Windowmaker. They have decided
> to follow an endless way instead. I'm temptated of
> destroying the whole X
> system now. The problem with FreeBSD, unlike with
> Linux, was that Nautilus
> 1.x didn't work in any way.
> Before throwing in the towel, I'll downgrade to KDE
> 2.x, and I'll wait the
> solution for Nautilus.
> 
> I thank who will send me a solution to start the
> Nautilus 1.x, to have at
> least a decent desktop for a pair of production
> workstations, dedicated to
> store music files.
> 
> I have tried and retried, but the result is always
> the same: there is no
> common style under GTK 2.x and KDE 3.x.
> 
> There is no style matching GNUstep, there aren't
> customizable windowmanagers
> any more.
> 
> The main proposals are based on the Windows shit.
> 
> VITTORI
> 
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Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[paul van den bergen]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:24 pm, Louis LeBlanc wrote:
> On 11/12/03 09:36 PM, Lucas Holt sat at the `puter and typed:
> > On Nov 12, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Marty Leisner wrote:
> > > BTW -- I've been doing "object oriented" stuff in C for years --
> > > its harder, but its doable.  You have a much simpler language to
> > > deal with.
> > > marty
> >
> > Am I missing something here?  When does C have OO capability?
> > Structs don't count.  What about inheritance and polymorphism?
>
> That's in the implementation AND application.  Just because you CAN
> access part of a lowly struct, doesn't mean you have to.  It's object
> oriented if you OBSERVE the restricted accesses defined by OO.
> Whether or not they're there is completely irrelevant.  Of course C
> has OO capability, it just doesn't have its restrictions :)

don't confuse the language with the philosophy...

programming styles - OO, procedural, functional, whatever, are methods or even 
rulesets.  some languages suit one or the other better or worse.  One could 
write functionally in C++ if one had to... but *ouch*  ditto C wrt OO.  the 
thing is that modular C programming is scalable in ways similar to OO.  
that's sort of part way to OO.  the rest of it - inheretance, etc. when 
automated in C++ v's C make C++ more suitable to OO programming.

IMHO, ofcourse.

-- 
Dr Paul van den Bergen
Centre for Advanced Internet Architectures
caia.swin.edu.au
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IM:bulwynkl2002
"And some run up hill and down dale, knapping the chucky stones 
to pieces wi' hammers, like so many road makers run daft. 
They say it is to see how the world was made."
Sir Walter Scott, St. Ronan's Well 1824 

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Re: Installation Hang

[Nick P.]

Bob Downes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>What version of FreeBSD are you trying to install? Have 
>you tried another branch? (I.e. if you're installing 4.9, 
>try 5.1, and vice-versa. 5.1 is still not recommended 
>for production systems, but it seems very, very stable as 
>my desktop system.)
I am installing 4.9.  Someone else suggested 5.1 as well.  I'm a little concerned 
about doing that because I can imagine myself
1) having trouble at some point
2) asking a question
3) getting roasted by this list for using a CURRENT install, 
when I'm new to FreeBSD


Thanks,
Nick

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Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[Louis LeBlanc]

On 11/12/03 09:36 PM, Lucas Holt sat at the `puter and typed:
> 
> On Nov 12, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Marty Leisner wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > BTW -- I've been doing "object oriented" stuff in C for years --
> > its harder, but its doable.  You have a much simpler language to
> > deal with.
> >
> > First learn how to write good programs in C.  Then see if C++ buys
> > you anything extra.  If it doesn't, you don't need C++.  But I've
> > seen far too much C++ that's just obscure C.
> >
> > Just my experience and opinion.
> >
> > marty
> 
> Am I missing something here?  When does C have OO capability?
> Structs don't count.  What about inheritance and polymorphism?

That's in the implementation AND application.  Just because you CAN
access part of a lowly struct, doesn't mean you have to.  It's object
oriented if you OBSERVE the restricted accesses defined by OO.
Whether or not they're there is completely irrelevant.  Of course C
has OO capability, it just doesn't have its restrictions :)

> To me a struct is like a VCR with no record button.  You can view
> the content, but you can't manipulate it with the struct.  If i want
> to do something to destroy the tape, I must apply a magnet from an
> outside source (much like a plain old function).  And classes
> provide security, much like the tab on the front of the tape.  The
> data is private if the tab is puched out.  (ok thats a bad analogy)

Seems to me it's more like a VCR tape with the tab taped over.

If you declare a struct, and then implement a specific set of routines
to manipulate it, and only use those routines, except for those 'data
members' that would otherwise be public anyway, that's essentially
your class.  You're doing without all the type and access restrictions
IMPOSED by C++, but that doesn't mean you can't OBSERVE those
restrictions.  This way, when saving cpu time is critical, you can
bend those rules.  With C++, you're stuck on the long road.

> If C had OO features, then why do we have C++ and Objective C?

Because some people like C++ better.

> I would agree that you can write programs that do the same thing in
> all three languages above, but I don't think that OO is a waste of
> time.  OO promotes code reuse.  That is the whole point.

No one ever claimed OO was a waste of time that I noticed.  But I
don't see code reuse with C++ any more than with C.  I'm a real big
fan of code reuse, and I have reused more C code than I can remember.
Problem is that when C++ code gets reused, it's usually a template
class, in which case, you'd probably be better off with C anyway.
When I reuse C code, it's a copied data structure and a set of
routines that will apply to the task at hand, not a third generation
inherited template class with half it's methods redefined.

> Using C++ implies a state of mind.  You can write code like in C,
> but it defeats the purpose of using an OO language.

Not sure what you mean by this, but if using C++ is a state of mind,
why can't that state of mind affect the way C code is written?  And it
doesn't defeat the purpose if you misbehave regularly and NEED the
unbreakable restrictions.

Just another $0.02

L
-- 
Louis LeBlanc   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
http://www.keyslapper.org ԿԬ

You're a good example of why some animals eat their young.
-- Jim Samuels to a heckler
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a road to nowhere

[.VWV.]

I still can't believe what people of GNOME and KDE have done. With GTK 1.x
and KDE 2.x there were only some little adjustments missing, to obtain the
'perfect' desktop, compatible with GNUstep's Windowmaker. They have decided
to follow an endless way instead. I'm temptated of destroying the whole X
system now. The problem with FreeBSD, unlike with Linux, was that Nautilus
1.x didn't work in any way.
Before throwing in the towel, I'll downgrade to KDE 2.x, and I'll wait the
solution for Nautilus.

I thank who will send me a solution to start the Nautilus 1.x, to have at
least a decent desktop for a pair of production workstations, dedicated to
store music files.

I have tried and retried, but the result is always the same: there is no
common style under GTK 2.x and KDE 3.x.

There is no style matching GNUstep, there aren't customizable windowmanagers
any more.

The main proposals are based on the Windows shit.

VITTORI

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Re: Installation Hang

[Nick P.]

>Please wrap your lines at 70 characters so they may be easily >read.
Thanks.

>> I think that if it is documented that in order to use 
>>FreeBSD, you must have your CD-ROM on a separate IDE 
>>cable that your hard drive, because of __X___ reason, 
>>then that would be more palatable. I could then 
>>easily decide whether or not I want to move on to the
>>next hurdle in installing the OS.

>That's not necessary in general, unless you have poor quality or
>misconfigured hardware.
I really meant that as hypothetical.  So ... maybe it is my hardware.  But it does 
work fine in another OS.  Could you elaborate on some ways that FreeBSD might be more 
sensitive to poor quality hardware than another operating system?

Thanks,
Nick

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Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[Lucas Holt]

On Nov 12, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Marty Leisner wrote:



BTW -- I've been doing "object oriented" stuff in C for years --
its harder, but its doable.  You have a much simpler language
to deal with.
First learn how to write good programs in C.
Then see if C++ buys you anything extra.
If it doesn't, you don't need C++.
But I've seen far too much C++ that's just obscure C.
Just my experience and opinion.

marty
Am I missing something here?  When does C have OO capability?  Structs 
don't count.  What about inheritance and polymorphism?

To me a struct is like a VCR with no record button.  You can view the 
content, but you can't manipulate it with the struct.  If i want to do 
something to destroy the tape, I must apply a magnet from an outside 
source (much like a plain old function).  And classes provide security, 
much like the tab on the front of the tape.  The data is private if the 
tab is puched out.  (ok thats a bad analogy)

If C had OO features, then why do we have C++ and Objective C?

I would agree that you can write programs that do the same thing in all 
three languages above, but I don't think that OO is a waste of time.  
OO promotes code reuse.  That is the whole point.

Using C++ implies a state of mind.  You can write code like in C, but 
it defeats the purpose of using an OO language.

Lucas Holt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

FoolishGames.com  (Jewel Fan Site)
JustJournal.com (Free blogging)
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and 
I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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Re: ip-up script of pppd no triggered

[Alex de Kruijff]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:31:29PM +0200, Jim Xochellis wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I need persuade pppd to call its ip-up script in order to add a 
> non-default route when the link is up and running. Unfortunately it 
> seems that my ip-up script is not being called. The mode of the file is 
> rwxr-xr-x and the owner root:wheel. I am calling the pppd from inside a 
> "/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ppp.sh" script by using the following command:
> "/usr/sbin/pppd /dev/cuaa0 115200 A.A.A.A:B.B.B.B noauth persist 
> netmask 255.255.255.252"
> 
> Am I doing something wrong?

This is, if i'm not mistaiken, written down in the handbook.
-- 
Alex

Articles based on solutions that I use:
http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/
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Building OpenOffice 1.1 fails during Java build.

[RexFelis]

Hello all,

I am running FreeBSD 5.1-RELEASE-p10.  I am
trying to install OpenOffice 1.1 from ports.

I have the LINPROCFS filesystem mounted, and I
have added 

kern.maxdsiz="1073741824"
kern.maxssiz="268435456"

to my /boot/loader.conf file, as was suggested,
but I am still getting the same error during the
build of Java 1.4.1.  None of my research reveals
an answer to this difficulty, and nobody at
freebsdforums.org seemed to know how to fix it,
so I thought I would try here.

The actual error response looks like this:

--
VM option 'ThreadStackSize=768'
Error occurred during initialization of VM
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError
Dumping core
Abort trap (core dumped)
gmake[3]: *** [.compile.classlist] Error 134
gmake[3]: Leaving directory
`/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/j2se/ext/plugin/make'
gmake[2]: *** [debug] Error 2
gmake[2]: Leaving directory
`/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/j2se/ext/plugin/make'
gmake[1]: *** [plugin-all] Error 1
gmake[1]: Leaving directory
`/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/j2se/make'
gmake: *** [j2se-build] Error 2
*** Error code 2

Stop in /usr/ports/java/jdk14.
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/editors/openoffice-1.1.
primus#
---

And, just in case it is of any help, I have
retrieved the sanity check from the Java build as
well.

-
primus# make install package clean
===>   openoffice-1.1.0_1 depends on file:
/usr/local/jdk1.4.1/bin/java - not found
===>Verifying install for
/usr/local/jdk1.4.1/bin/java in
/usr/ports/java/jdk14
===>  Building for jdk-1.4.1p4_1
# Start of jdk build
bsd i586 1.4.1-p4 build started: 03-11-12 20:57
gmake[1]: Entering directory
`/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/j2se/make'
gmake[1]: Leaving directory
`/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/j2se/make'
if [ -r ./../../patch/make/Makefile ]; then \
  ( cd  ./../../patch/make; gmake sanity
MAKEFLAGS= EXTERNALSANITYCONTROL=true
CONTROL_TOPDIR=/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/control
CONTROL_TOPDIR_NAME=control
ALT_J2SE_TOPDIR=./../../j2se
ALT_OUTPUTDIR=/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/control/build/bsd-i586
ALT_RTPATCH_DIR= ALT_BASE_IMAGE_ZIP=
ALT_BASE_IMAGE_DIR= ALT_NEW_IMAGE_DIR= ; ); \
fi

Build Machine Information:
   build machine =

Build Directory Structure:
   CWD = /usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/control/make
   TOPDIR = ./../..
   CONTROL_TOPDIR = ./../../control
   GENERICS_TOPDIR = ./../../generics
   HOTSPOT_TOPDIR = ./../../hotspot
   J2SE_TOPDIR = ./../../j2se
   MOTIF_TOPDIR = ./../../motif
   COBUNDLE_TOPDIR = ./../../cobundle

Hotspot Settings:
   HOTSPOT_BUILD_JOBS =

Bootstrap Settings:
   BOOTDIR = /usr/local/linux-sun-jdk1.4.2
   BOOTSTRAP J2SDK VERSION: 1.4.2_01
   OUTPUTDIR =
/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/control/build/bsd-i586

Build Tool Settings:
   UNIXCOMMAND_PATH = /bin/
   COMPILER_PATH = /usr/bin/
   DEVTOOLS_PATH = /usr/local/bin/
   USRBIN_PATH = /usr/bin/
   MOTIF_DIR = /usr/X11R6
   CC_VER = gcc (GCC) 3.2.2 [FreeBSD] 20030205
(release) Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software
Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the
source for copying conditions.  There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS
FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
   PATH =
/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/root/bin

Build Directives:
   USE_ONLY_BOOTDIR_TOOLS =
   USE_HOTSPOT_INTERPRETER_MODE =
   PEDANTIC =
   DEV_ONLY =
   J2RE_ONLY =
   NO_DOCS = YES
   NO_IMAGES =
   TOOLS_ONLY = true
   INSANE =

Build Platform Settings:
   PLATFORM = bsd
   ARCH = i586
   LIBARCH = i386
   ARCH_FAMILY = i586
   ARCH_DATA_MODEL = 32
   OS_VERSION = 5.1-RELEASE-p10
   TRUE_PLATFORM = FreeBSD (5.x CURRENT way)
   FREE_SPACE = 11002156

GNU Make Settings:
   MAKE = gmake
   MAKE VERSION =
   MAKECMDGOALS = sanity
   MAKEFLAGS =
   SHELL = /bin/sh

Target Build Versions:
   JDK_VERSION = 1.4.1
   MILESTONE = p4
   BUILD_NUMBER = shannon_12_nov_2003_20_57
   BUNDLE_DATE = 12_nov_2003

External File/Binary Locations:
   HOTSPOT_SERVER_PATH =
/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/control/build/bsd-i586/hotspot-i586/server
   HOTSPOT_CLIENT_PATH =
/usr/ports/java/jdk14/work/control/build/bsd-i586/hotspot-i586/client
   OPT_JAVAWS =
/java/re/javaws/1.2/promoted/pit_tested/bundles/javaws-1_2-bsd-i586-i.zip
   MOZILLA_PATH = /java/devtools
   MOZILLA_HEADERS_PATH =
/java/devtools/share/plugin
   MOZILLA_LIBS_PATH = /java/devtools/bsd/plugin
   MOTIF_DIR = /usr/X11R6
   CACERTS_FILE =
./../src/share/lib/security/cacerts

WARNING: Your build environment has the variable
NO_DOCS
 defined. This will result in a
development-only
 build of the J2SE workspace, lacking the
documentation
 build.

WARNING: You do not have access to the Java Web
Start binary.
 These binaries may be optional for this
build. Please
 check your access to

/java/re/javaws/1.2/promoted/pit_tested/bundles/javaws-1_2-bsd-i586-i.zip
 and/or check your value of
ALT_JAVAWS_PATH.
 This will make your images target build
incomplete.

Sanity check passed.
---

Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[Marty Leisner]

I've been programming in C for over 20 years.

I've gotten up to speed on C++ for work.

I like the expression "in C you can shoot yourself in the foot,
in C++ you can blow off your leg".

C++ does have advantages -- but I haven't seen most C++ 
programmers use them -- instead they often obscure the
problem at hand by making the implementation more complicated
than the problem they're trying to solve.

BTW -- I've been doing "object oriented" stuff in C for years --
its harder, but its doable.  You have a much simpler language
to deal with.

First learn how to write good programs in C.
Then see if C++ buys you anything extra.
If it doesn't, you don't need C++.
But I've seen far too much C++ that's just obscure C.

Just my experience and opinion.

marty

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Re: Which version of Java to use?

[Javier Soques]

I can only speak on my recent experience with FreeBSD
5.1. I failed installing most of the ports (I tried
lots so I don't remember, don't know if I did the
right steps) the only port that worked perfectly was
the Linux-Blackdown 1.3.x series.  Of course you have
to install the linux base libraries. Then I downloaded
the Sun JDK 1.4.0 version for Linux and it also works
fine, I tried the 1.4.1 version and it core dumped. 
I've been using the 1.4.0 setup with Jakarta Tomcat
5.1 and OpenEJB 0.94 without problems (development
enviroment).

Bye
Javier Soques


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Re: mounting a usb device

[Robin Schoonover]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:53:45 -0500, "Gregory Stearns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I am trying to mount a usb device
> I have tried mount /dev/usb0 /directory and I get block device required
> When I plug it in I get
> umass0: LEXAR MEDIA JUMPDRIVE ,  rev 1.10/0.01,   addr 2
> da0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
> da0:  Removable Direct Access SCSI-CCS device
> dao: 650KB/s transfers
> da0: 61MB (125952 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 61C)
> 
> How do I mount this and use it?

mount /dev/da0 /directory should probably do it.

-- 
Robin Schoonover (aka End)
#
# "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and good
# with ketchup."
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Re: Sparc64 (Ultra 10) Install emulation

[Kris Kennaway]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 04:40:53PM -0700, Aaron Brandt wrote:
> 
> Can someone tell me what I need to do to get FreeBSD Sparc 64 installed on
> a Ultra Sparc 10. It seems as if the emulation is messed up. I have heard
> of doing a serial install with a dumb terminal but cant find any
> documentation on it. can someone point me to the correct place?

It's documented in the handbook somewhere.

Kris


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Adding packages to the 4.7-RELEASE

[Kris Kennaway]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 10:35:03AM -0500, Lowell Gilbert wrote:

> Your best bet is probably to go through the ports system, which I
> believe is still maintaining compatibility with 4.7.

The ports collection only supports the latest release, although many
ports will still work with older releases.

Kris


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature

mounting a usb device

[Gregory Stearns]

I am trying to mount a usb device
I have tried mount /dev/usb0 /directory and I get block device required
When I plug it in I get
umass0: LEXAR MEDIA JUMPDRIVE ,  rev 1.10/0.01,   addr 2
da0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0:  Removable Direct Access SCSI-CCS device
dao: 650KB/s transfers
da0: 61MB (125952 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 61C)

How do I mount this and use it?
Thank you
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RE: Newbie: Touchy Travan tape drive rewind problem

[Brent Wiese]

I have to agree with Bill.

I don't like the "me-too" postings, but in this case, I can't recommend
highly enough dumping that Travan. I've never had one work for more than a
year or so before dying various deaths.

Get yourself a nice big 250GB USB/firewire drive and zip your backups tight.
You'll be a lot happier. :)



> -Original Message-
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003, Christophe wrote:
> >I've installed FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE on a Dell 400SC with an 
> ATA Travan 
> >tape drive, accessing it through /dev/ast0.  On linear writing 
> >operations, it works great... but there appears to be some kind of 
> >timeout problem on rewind:
> 
> A good general rule about using the Travan tape drives is -- don't.
> 
> We used them for about a year until they started giving all 
> kinds of wierd
> problems that appeared to be hardware related, timeouts, not 
> able to read
> tapes after they were written, etc.
> 
> Bill
> --
> INTERNET:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC
> UUCP:   camco!bill  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
> FAX:(206) 232-9186  Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820; 
> (206) 236-1676
> URL: http://www.celestial.com/
> 
> The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
> Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts
> to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you 
> happen to
> be one of the facts that needs altering.
> -- Doctor Who, "Face of Evil"
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Re: statvfs.h

[SWIT]

spiderman# find / -name statvfs.h -print


spiderman#

comes up empty.
now what ?
Thanks
Mark

- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "M.D. DeWar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: statvfs.h


> M.D. DeWar wrote:
>
> >were do yo u get header files ?
> >or can't you ?
> >
> >I am trying to load a webmin module and it needs some perl modules and
one
> >filesys::statvfs needs the header file
> >statsvfs.h and I donthave it.
> >
> >thanks
> >mark
> >
> >
> >
> #find / -name statvfs.h -print
> /usr/include/sys/statvfs.h
> /usr/src/sys/sys/statvfs.h
>
> HTH,
>
> Kevin Kinsey
> DaleCo, S.P.
>
>
>


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Re: Downloading OOo, other ports outside of the system?

[Robin Schoonover]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:48:20 -0700, "Preston Crawford"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have what may seem like an odd question. I have a new FreeBSD 4.9
> system that I want to install OpenOffice and some other stuff on. Most of
> the stuff left to install is pretty big and thus will be hard to download
> via ports over my dial-up connection (yes, I use dial-up). I know it's
> possible to download tarballs and drop them into the ports tree somewhere
> so you don't have to do the download. I'm wondering how easy this is,
> though. By that I mean, if I wanted to say install Tomcat, Java,
> OpenOffice, etc. in this manner how would I know which package to
> download? And from where? I'd like to download these at work, burn them
> on a CD and take them home. However, since I'm not in front of my machine
> I don't know where ports will be looking for these files. Anyone know?

running make fetch-recursive-list will tell you everything including -all-
the places you can get the files.  If you use a windoze box at work
however, it'll be slightly painful, since you have to copy each url one by
one (I imagine using something else like linux wouldn't be too bad, since
you can generally make it use wget by running it with FETCH_CMD=wget).

I've never actually done it this way though, and one issue I see is the
fact that /usr/ports/distfiles has certain things semi-ordered (openoffice
stuff is dumped into /usr/ports/distfiles/openoffice for example), and I
don't think fetch-recursive-list does anything about it. Of course, this
just means you have to move a few things around when you get home.

-- 
Robin Schoonover (aka End)
#
# Smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics.  -- Fletcher Knebel
#
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Re: Another Newbie Question: C or C++

[Scott W]

yo _ wrote:

I would recommend not trying to learn C or C++ by yourself from a book.
The fastest (and best way) to learn the right stuff is to take 
coursework from a university or community college.


Not that I like disagreeing for no good reason, but I wholeheartedly 
disagree with that statement.

If the courses are any good, you'll get feedback, and you'll be paced
and challenged with projects designed to help you learn.
Going it alone in an unguided environment will only familiarize you
the lesser aspects of a language, if you last that long. The difficult
and most important aspects of the language (like pointers, virtual 
functions, references) will become almost insurmountable 
trial-and-error obstacles if you try to teach yourself.


If you want to get a lower paying and boring job programming in C/C++ 
for whatever reason and have a piece of paper that says you can have 
that job, I recommend wasting 4-6 months taking a course in your spare 
time to learn C/C++. If you want to be top of your game and learn 
C/C++ without wasting time on topics that take you a minute to 
understand, get a good book, practice the topics you have learned at 
your own pace, get numorous code examples for things you may want to 
do (sockets, GUI, OpenGL, ncurses, threading, kernel interfacing) from 
the glorious and infinite internet and emulate good programming style 
(using const qualifiers in C++, using #defines in C, etc.). Also be 
prepared to teach yourself because you may not always be prepared for 
a job you may find yourself with; learn how to easily learn and use 
external libraries.

Like others it seems, I have a problem with _part_ of this statement.  I 
have taught C++ and others previously, and can say _some_ people respond 
much better to 'guided' learning in person- eg, classes.  Those that 
take what they leanred in class and go on to actually apply it, or come 
up with questions on their own and then pursue the answers on their own 
time, become much better programmers.  Others are completely capable of 
learning outside of a classroom environment- Note I didn't say 'on their 
own,' because a good book and _working code_ examples, and then their 
own working code, are all invaluable parts...so anyway, I don't agree 
with ALL classes being a waste, although it highly depends on the 
instructor, the student, and perhaps most importantly, what the student 
DOES with the information given to him.

A very good point was brought up though, and it used to be embedded in 
every class I taught- the things not nescessarily language specific- 
problem analysis, design, good programming practices and structure.  
These are not always taught in the 'usual comp programming classes' 
unfortunately.  The other point I used to mention (while teaching 
Pascal, heh!) was if they took only a single thing away with them from 
the class, it was this:  You MUST learn how to do research on your own, 
and solve your own problems!  That doesn't mean never asking for help, 
whether in person, via mailing lists or newsgroups, but it means if you 
have a problem, you should be _capable_, and know how to, research it 
yourself first.  When you think about it, every single program created 
is unique (k, cept maybe where SCO stole source code and then cried to 
lawyers about it ;-).  Even programs that have the same design, even 
down to the API level, are unique.  When you start a new project, on 
your own or in a group, it's HIGHLY likely you will be doing something 
you have never done beforeso learning how to find information you 
need, quickly, becomes paramount.

The best programmers will teach themselves. A statement that may be on 
the borderline of opinion to fact by constant example. After all the 
first programmer, in fact, taught herself.
-Rian Hunter



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Sparc64 (Ultra 10) Install emulation

[Aaron Brandt]

Can someone tell me what I need to do to get FreeBSD Sparc 64 installed on
a Ultra Sparc 10. It seems as if the emulation is messed up. I have heard
of doing a serial install with a dumb terminal but cant find any
documentation on it. can someone point me to the correct place?

Aaron..
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Re: ioctl for my cdrom

[Simon Barner]

> When I try to play a music cd in xmms as root 
  ^^ evil!! ;-)

> it says digital aufio 
> extraction test failed: inappropriate ioctl for device.  Also it says 
> device /dev/acd0 ok.  Anyone have a solution?

You are running a rather recent -CURRENT, aren't you?

Some deprecated ioctl has been removed, and there is already a PR for this:

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/57198

(Use the "Raw PR" at the bottom of the page to save the report to
/usr/ports/multimedia/files/patch-Input::cdaudio::cdaudio.c

This should work for you (untested) until the PR is committed to the
ports tree.

Simon


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:06:51 -0500
> "Alex Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for all of the great suggestions to my previous question!
> > 
> > Yet, the responses have led me to another question. If C++ is newer
> > and more advanced than C, will it replace C?
> 
> Unlikely.  Old languages die hard - it's a bit scary to think of all
> the systems out there that are still running programs written in
> FORTRAN, COBOL, Business BASIC, and MUMPS (and incidentally will
> continue to run those programs until it becomes cost-ineffective to do
> so - which is to say, probably indefinately.)

As several have mentioned, it depends on what you are doing.
For some things Fortran is still best.   Not everyone spends
all their time hacking OSen.   Some try to do actual work with 
their machine (not me, of coure.

jerry

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Re: Newbie: The C / C++ Issue

[Chris Pressey]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:06:51 -0500
"Alex Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for all of the great suggestions to my previous question!
> 
> Yet, the responses have led me to another question. If C++ is newer
> and more advanced than C, will it replace C?

Unlikely.  Old languages die hard - it's a bit scary to think of all
the systems out there that are still running programs written in
FORTRAN, COBOL, Business BASIC, and MUMPS (and incidentally will
continue to run those programs until it becomes cost-ineffective to do
so - which is to say, probably indefinately.)

> If so, should I learn C++ and forget C?

If you want an appreciation of how computers actually work, learn the
language that many call "portable(ish) assembly code" - C.

If you don't really care how computers actually work, and you just want
an elegant way to specify algorithms, learn Haskell.

If you want something in-between, learn Erlang.

And if you want a job in a cubicle, learn C++ or Java.

Just MHO,
-Chris
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Panic on install

[Kevin Orviss]

Hi Guys,

I am trying to install FreeBSD 5.1 from CD on a Toshiba Tecra 8200 Laptop.
No matter what mode I start the install in, it results in a kernel panic.
The laptop has an in built Intel NIC and an inbuilt Wireless NIC as well. As
you can see from the output below it always happens after the Wi-Fi NIC has
been detected. I think it has something to do with the way the interupts are
being re-routed, but I do not know how to get around it as this is my first
'adventure' with FreeBSD.


Here is the last output I can see on screen before the kernal panic:

=
Wi0: Lucent Firmware: Station (6.14.1)
Wi0: supported rates: 1Mbps 2Mbps 5.5 Mbps 11Mbps


Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode
fault virtual address   = 0xdbbd8000
fault code  = supervisor read, page not present
Instruction pointer = 0x8 : 0xc025fe25
Stack pointer   = 0x10 : 0xd6959964
Frame pointer   = 0x10 : 0xd6959b7c
Code segment= base 0x0, limit 0xf, type 0x1b
= DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1
Processor eflags= interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0
Current process = 25 (cbb1)
Trap number = 12
Panic: page fault 
==

I have looked through the FreeBSD handbook, but I just do not have enough
experience with FreeBSD to make sense of it. Can anyone give any help?

Thanks

Kevin


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Re: Which version of Java to use?

[Harald Schmalzbauer]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 21:49, Preston Crawford wrote:
> I want to install Java to use Ant/Tomcat/Struts stuff like that. Which JDK
> is the "right" one to install to get these to work properly? Can anyone
> tell me?

I'm no java guy but regarding the latest commit message I think 1.4.2:

jdk14 java   Java Development Kit 1.4.2 
Update to 1.4.2p5.

Important changes since last patchset:

. jdk14 port is now JDK 1.4.2 based!
. JavaWS distributing with jdk
. Runway problem fixed (fork() is no more problem for java apps)
. Sound support updated
. IPv6 support overhauled
. Drag'n'Drop support fixed (require open-motif mods)

As for now there's no more outstanding issues with this port!

FreeBSD port is also got a important of changes:

. optimized setup is now default (to get debuging bins/libs use WITH_DEBUG)

. bootstrap jdk autodetection.  If WITH_LINUX_BOOTSTRAP is not set, then
  it checks all known to work JDKs installed.  If nothing found, forces
  to install of linux-sun-jdk14

. Because of above change there's no NATIVE_BOOTSTRAP option anymore.  If
  native jdk14 is installed, it will be used by default.
 

>
> Preston
>
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Description: signature

which apache

[David Bear]

well, since I will be running apache on freebsd I thought I ask which
one will be the best to use,  v1.3 series on v2.x series.

I will be doing ssl.  I know the v2 series uses the thread model
instead of the fork.. but I don't care.  I just need an apache the
1) I don't have to patch frequently;-)
2) that works as well as apache ever did 
3) that plays will with freebsd 5.x...

going through the apache faq's now, but thought I'd get good insight
here.

thx.
-- 
David Bear
phone:  480-965-8257
fax:480-965-9189
College of Public Programs/ASU
Wilson Hall 232
Tempe, AZ 85287-0803
 "Beware the IP portfolio, everyone will be suspect of trespassing"
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Using extrn DVD writer HP-300e (USB/firewire) with 4.9 or 5.1?

[Hari Bhaskaran]

Hi,

I am trying to use an hp 300e external dvd writer from FreeBSD.
The links I found so far suggest this isn't possible
or available yet. But those pages were old (Sep 2002?). Has anything
changed recently?

The drive supports both USB as well as firewire - any option
(however slow) is ok for me. The drive supports DVD+R and DVD+RW
media. How is the support in 4.9 vs 5.1? I would like to stick to
4.9 if it is possible.

Any help is appreciated.

--
Hari Bhaskaran

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afbackup full_backup process dying

[Noah]

freeBSD 4.8
afbackup 3.3.5

okay I am unclear why afbackup is killing off the full_backup process? 

this is a client machine the afbackup server is a remote host.

I cant seem to figure out any details from the afbackup logs either?  Is there
somewhere else I should be Looking for more clues?


this is from /var/spool/afbackup/client.backup.log


--- snip ---

Wed Nov 12 14:32:57 2003, Starting full backup.
Wed Nov 12 14:32:58 2003, Error: Backup client side subprocess unexpectedly died
.
Wed Nov 12 14:32:58 2003, Full backup failed.


--- snip ---
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Re: backup drive bootabel

[Noah]

> i) Make the 2nd disk an identical copy to the 1st one.  In this case
> should the 1st drive go AWOL, you would have to open the case and
> either remove the first drive or modify the jumpering on the disks to
> swap their order on the bus.  You will need to mark the FreeBSD slice
> bootable in the disk partition label by running:
> 
> # boot0cfg -B -b /boot/mbr -s 1 da1


okay this is the command I was Looking for but I am arriving at an error:

# boot0cfg -B -b /boot/mbr -s 1 da1
boot0cfg: /boot/mbr: unknown or incompatible boot code

I think the partitions are about the same so I am not clear why this is happening.


- Noah


> 
> So long as the slice tables and disklabels on da0 and da1 are pretty
> much the same, either disk should boot up smoothly.


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Re: file sizes

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> Trying to figure out how to find out the size of a file. 
> 

Check  man ls for "ls -l"

jerry

> thanks
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> 

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ioctl for my cdrom

[Jason]

When I try to play a music cd in xmms as root it says digital aufio 
extraction test failed: inapropriate ioctl for device.  Also it says 
device /dev/acd0 ok.  Anyone have a solution?
Thanks,
Jason

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Re: HP JetDirect EX printer problems ...

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Nov 12), David Bein said:
> I have an older J2383 Jet Direct box which I am trying to setup for a
> FreeBSD 4.9/x86 box. I have tried various things in /etc/printcap,
> but still I get nothing reasonable. I know the box is working because
> if I telnet to port 9100 on the Jet Direct and type in some lines and
> then quit out of telnet, it prints them. So my problem is not the
> hardware or network connectivity.
> 
> I am confused about whether this should be "lp=@" with
> appropriate filters or some variant of "rm= rp=TEXT".

Either should work.  I prefer the "rm" style since that works a bit
better when you have multiple systems printing to the same printer. 
Make sure to telnet to the jetdirect and disable banners, though.

> None of the software examples I have seen appear to reference port
> 9100 and so I am confused as to how it knows what to connect to
> except in the @ configuration. Neither of these
> approaches worked.

What happens?

-- 
Dan Nelson
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Re: HP JetDirect EX printer problems ...

[Larry Rosenman]

--On Wednesday, November 12, 2003 17:13:06 -0500 David Bein 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello ...

  I have an older J2383 Jet Direct box which I am trying to setup
for a FreeBSD 4.9/x86 box. I have tried various things in /etc/printcap,
but still I get nothing reasonable. I know the box is working because
if I telnet to port 9100 on the Jet Direct and type in some lines
and then quit out of telnet, it prints them. So my problem is not
the hardware or network connectivity.
  I am confused about whether this should be "lp=@"
with appropriate filters or some variant of "rm= rp=TEXT".
None of the software examples I have seen appear to reference port 9100
and so I am confused as to how it knows what to connect to except
in the @ configuration. Neither of these approaches worked.
  I am wanting to use this with an old LaserJet 4L PCL class printer.
Directly connecting it to a parallel port works just fine [using
apsfilter
and all the other Postscript conversion software]. I just want to have
it work from whichever machine using the network both for reasons of
speed
and not wanting to have a single box up just to print from some other
machine.
This is a printcap entry I use for a PostScript enabled LaserJet 5:
lj5|lphome: \
   :lf=/var/log/lj5.err:\
   :lp=:\
   :rm=lj5.lerctr.org:\
   :mx#0:\
   :rp=raw:\
   :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lj5:
Maybe it will help you.

LER

  There was software from HP for this box for Solaris and HP-UX, but
I am running FreeBSD and occasionally Solaris/x86, so I have none
of the software from HP to work with.
  Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks very much.

--David
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--
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749


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Re: file sizes

[Dan Nelson]

In the last episode (Nov 12), Bryan Cassidy said:
> Trying to figure out how to find out the size of a file. 

ls -l myfile

-- 
Dan Nelson
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HP JetDirect EX printer problems ...

[David Bein]

Hello ...

  I have an older J2383 Jet Direct box which I am trying to setup
for a FreeBSD 4.9/x86 box. I have tried various things in /etc/printcap,
but still I get nothing reasonable. I know the box is working because
if I telnet to port 9100 on the Jet Direct and type in some lines
and then quit out of telnet, it prints them. So my problem is not
the hardware or network connectivity.

  I am confused about whether this should be "lp=@"
with appropriate filters or some variant of "rm= rp=TEXT".
None of the software examples I have seen appear to reference port 9100
and so I am confused as to how it knows what to connect to except
in the @ configuration. Neither of these approaches worked.

  I am wanting to use this with an old LaserJet 4L PCL class printer.
Directly connecting it to a parallel port works just fine [using
apsfilter
and all the other Postscript conversion software]. I just want to have
it work from whichever machine using the network both for reasons of
speed
and not wanting to have a single box up just to print from some other
machine.

  There was software from HP for this box for Solaris and HP-UX, but
I am running FreeBSD and occasionally Solaris/x86, so I have none
of the software from HP to work with.

  Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks very much.

--David
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Re: file sizes

[Jakob Breivik Grimstveit]

On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 00:01, Bryan Cassidy wrote:

> Trying to figure out how to find out the size of a file. 

Try...

ls -l 
ls -lh 
du -h 

-- 
Jakob Breivik Grimstveit, http://www.grimstveit.no/~jakob, +47 48298152 


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Re: cdbakeoven doesn't see atapi burner

[Lee Harr]

Hmm... interesting. I've done everything described in man/handbook. The 
drives
shows up (correctly) in dmesg and with camcontrol. So *why* will cdbakeoven
not detect the drives?

> > Could anyone point me to some documentation for cdbakeoven, or help 
me
> > get started?
I did find *some* documentation.
In cdbakeoven, Help, About, click the link, browse the FAQ (very minimal)
and documentation.
Hope this helps!
Only as much as I now know it *ought* to work... I just don't know why it
doesn't...


I have never been able to get anything but burncd working either.
None of the graphical cd burning programs work for me.
You may want to look at kburncd:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/kburncd
http://kburncd.sourceforge.net/
which came very close to working, but looks like it has not been
active since that first release. You may be able to tweak it
a bit and get it to go.
For my needs, burncd works just fine, but try telling that to someone
who has never used a commandline before...
_
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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file sizes

[Bryan Cassidy]

Trying to figure out how to find out the size of a file. 

thanks
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Re: Re: Downloading OOo, other ports outside of the system?

[Preston Crawford]

> Look into the makefile for the port.
> There's a line starting with MASTER_SITES, you can download from any of these.
> The variable DISTFILES contains the name of the file.

Thanks! I'll take a look when I get home and maybe download them tomorrow. Will it 
list dependencies as well?

Preston

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Re: FreeBSD Essay.

[Jud]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:41:40 +0100, "Alex de Kruijff"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:01:36PM +, Lewis Thompson wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> > 
> > I'm a first year CS student at Manchester and I've been given the task
> > of writing a 1,000 word essay on something computer-related.  It can be
> > pretty much anything I want (I think).  I've decided FreeBSD is
> > interesting, the OS I advocate and that I shall write about this.
> > 
> >   I am planning to write a brief history of the four BSDs, going way
> > back in time (probably a few words on Ritchie, etc.) but then
> > concentrate on FreeBSD.
> 
> My advise would be to pick one subject and stick with that. Don't go
> into the history in general if you for something detailed about FreeBSD
> and if you go for the hirstory don't write about something detailed.
> You'll proberbly find that you have lots to write about.
> 
> I have two subjects you may like:
> 1. The history starting from 1978 until now. Perhaps something about the
> feutere of BSD (dead), BSDi (could be dead), FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD.
> 2. FreeBSD 5 (History of FreeBSD 5, feutes, compersent betwain 4 and 5
> and 5 and linux. If you have space over one detailed subject.)
> 
> The history in it self should be larg enove and intersating on its own.
> You could start with the outcomming of Unix and go on to the univeristy
> of Berkley. Then go to the outcomming of FreeBSD, NetBSD and BSDi.
> Followed by the lawsute betain Unix and BSDi & BSD. Then OpenBSD came
> out in 1995. Recently Apple followed with Darwin (based on NetBSD and
> FreeBSD). As altenative there are two CD versions (NetBox and FreeBIE)
> and a small version (PicoBSD) wich are based on FreeBSD. Ending with a
> compersent betwain all versions.
> 
> >   I'm really asking if anybody can suggest any particularly interesting
> > topics that I can go away and research and then include in my essay.  I
> > guess since it's only a short essay I can't have /too/ much detail and I
> > didn't particularly want to try and explain something /very/ complicated
> > (although please suggest just the same ;).
> 
> Another subject would be the outcomming of FreeBSD 5. If you go this way
> skip the general history!! Only go for the relevent history for this
> version. Then coninue on the new and cool feutures of FreeBSD 5. Maybe
> talk about one or two in more detail. And a compersent betwain FreeBSD 4
> and 5.

For something sufficiently technical as well as a bit controversial, what
about comparing/contrasting the two roads from version 4 of FreeBSD -
version 5 vs. DragonflyBSD?

Jud
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RE: Mount SMB share on bootup

[Chirhart, Brian]

Ed - that worked great... Thanks!!

I am not sure what I did, but it worked.  

What language is that script in?  It isn't perl - is it C?

-Original Message-
From: Edward Epstein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:43 PM
To: Chirhart, Brian; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mount SMB share on bootup


Lines prefixed with ">" are what Chirhart, Brian wrote.

>>> point is password protected (on the XP side) so I am prompted for a
>>> password.  How can I automate that?  Or should I create the share
without
>
>a
>
>>> password?  I am not too worried about internal security so the share
>
>could
>
>>> have no password and that would be fine.
>>
>>Create a script called whatever.sh, chmod +x 755 whatever.sh and put that
>>script in a /usr/local/etc/rc.d.
>>
>>Put the following lines in that script
>>
>>#!/bin/sh
>>smbmount username=user password=pass and the rest of the parametars that
>
>you
>
>>are normaly using when mounting smb partition.
>>
>>Mind that if your startup script for samba is samba.sh your mounting
script
>>must start with a letter after the letter s otherwise you would mounting a
>>samba share without smb daemon started.
>
>
>
>When I try the smbmount I get a "command not Found"
>
>I checked the man pages on mount and found mount_smbfs, but I can not find
>any options that would allow me to specify a username and password.
>
>I am not using Samba (at least I didn't load it... may be there by
>default???) - To map the drive I have a line in my /etc/fstab file that
>reads:
>
># Device   #Mountpoint FSType  OPtion
>//[EMAIL PROTECTED]/share  /ftprootsmbfs   rw.nosuto   0   0
>
>Once the server boots, I type "mount /ftproot" and then it asks me for the
>password for User.  After the password is entered, /ftproot contains the
>contents of the share on my XP system.  It was one of the things that I
fell
>in love with about BSD - the ability to "see" XP shares with no special
>"magic".
>
>So anyway - I think there are several different approaches to this.  Can I
>modify my fstab file so that "auto" would work by somehow specifing a
>password?  Or is there a password option that I am missing in the mount or
>mount_smbfs commands?  OR...  is there a reason I don't have the smbmount
>command?

You are on the right track; it took me a while to figure this one out too. 

You've got your /etc/fstab file set up correctly. This is how the line for
me 
looks, it's just like yours.

//[EMAIL PROTECTED]/SHARE   /mnt/chaos  smbfs   rw,noauto   0   0

To specify your username and password for the mount, you should create
/etc/nsmb.conf  the syntax for this file is shown in 
/usr/share/examples/smbfs/dot.nsmbrc

Here is an example from my machine:

#nsmb.conf
[CHAOS]
addr=10.0.3.3

[CHAOS:EDWARD]
password=X


Finally, to mount on bootup, create a file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d with the 
following contents (or something similar; you probably didn't name your
share 
CHAOS):

[EMAIL PROTECTED] more /usr/local/etc/rc.d/010.chaos.sh
#! /bin/sh


case "$1" in

start)
echo "  Mounting CHAOS..."
mount /mnt/CHAOS &>2
;;

stop)
echo "  Unmounting CHAOS..."
umount /mnt/CHAOS &>2
;;

esac


Also, I make sure my /etc/nsmb.conf file is owned by root and chmod'ed 600 
because it contains a password in plaintext.

Don't forget to make sure that your file in /usr/local/etc/rc.d is chmodded
at 
least 700 so that it's executable by, at the very least, the owner (should
be 
root).

I hope this is clear enough to make some sense to you.

Regards,
Ed

>Thank you for all your help!
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-- 

"There are people who cheat on their spouse but not at cards, and vice
versa, 
and both and neither. Reputation is not necessarily portable from one 
situation to another, and it's not easily expressed."
--Clay Shirkey. (http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html)

"It has been said that man is a rational animal.  All my life I have
been searching for evidence which could support this."
--Bertrand Russell.

"The American empire is ideological, not territorial. We are the most 
ideological people in the world, and we are so united in our view that we 
don't understand there can be other views."
--Lt. Gen. William Odom, ret. (Former Director of NSA).

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Re: crontab

[Chris Howells]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 21:13, Darryl Hoar wrote:
> commented out.  Do I have to create this file from
> scratch ?

Yes. 'man 5 crontab' for examples.

- -- 
Cheers, Chris Howells -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: http://chrishowells.co.uk, PGP ID: 0x33795A2C
KDE/Qt/C++/PHP Developer: http://www.kde.org
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD)

iD8DBQE/sqU9F8Iu1zN5WiwRApnDAJ9r3O90cSRmkk3ov8jhpvMQBu92NgCfSy8L
7V35rSiXRrtOTED/mHY/Srk=
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Re: newbie dns mess w/ nic

[Marty Landman]

At 03:32 PM 11/12/2003, Steve Bertrand wrote:

Add the following to your /etc/rc.conf file:

default_router="192.168.0.1"

and then perform the following command to get it online without a reboot:

# route add default 192.168.0.1
Steve, I decided to add the line to rc.conf and then shutdown... have done 
so many anyhow and didn't want to get stuck whenever I did reboot/shutting 
down again not knowing what to do.

Anyway it didn't work on restart, but then when I issued the route add 
default cmd dns is working. So I added the line to my /usr/local/etc/rc.d 
and on restart everything's copasthetic. Why it didn't do the trick from 
rc.conf though...

Thanks,

Marty Landman   Face 2 Interface Inc 845-679-9387
Sign On Required: Web membership software for your site
Make a Website: http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml
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ER schema design

[R.T.G. TAN]

Hi,

Anyone know of a good program to create an ER diagram?

Tnx,

-- 
robert tan
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Re: crontab

[Luke Kearney]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:13:34 -0600
"Darryl Hoar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> granted us these pearls of wisdom:

> Greetings,
> I am running 4.7 and want to use cron to run a command.
> when I look in /var/cron/tabs, there is not a file for root.
> If I do a crontab -e its blank.
> 
> I thought there was a template already, with example
> commented out.  Do I have to create this file from
> scratch ?
> 
> thanks,
> -D


from scratch,  all users start with blank crontabs.

enjoy

LK

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Re: Downloading OOo, other ports outside of the system?

[R.T.G. TAN]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 01:48:20PM -0700, Preston Crawford wrote:
> I have what may seem like an odd question. I have a new FreeBSD 4.9 system that I 
> want to install OpenOffice and some other stuff on. Most of the stuff left to 
> install is pretty big and thus will be hard to download via ports over my dial-up 
> connection (yes, I use dial-up). I know it's possible to download tarballs and drop 
> them into the ports tree somewhere so you don't have to do the download. I'm 
> wondering how easy this is, though. By that I mean, if I wanted to say install 
> Tomcat, Java, OpenOffice, etc. in this manner how would I know which package to 
> download? And from where? I'd like to download these at work, burn them on a CD and 
> take them home. However, since I'm not in front of my machine I don't know where 
> ports will be looking for these files. Anyone know?
> 
> Preston
> 
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-- 

cd to, e.g. /usr/ports/editors/openoffice, look at the distinfo file.

__
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Re: symlink confusion

[Steve Bertrand]

> > # ln -s /usr/X11R6 /home/steve/X11R6
> >
> > Which put a new link from the original to the new location.
> >
> > If I # rm /home/steve/X11R6, will I be safe as to not delete the original
> > directory?

I'm sorry, the above line should have read:

# rm /usr/X11R6

not the other way around. In essence, if I delete the link, the directory
should remain right? Then I can just move the directory back to it's
original location?

Steve

>
> What does:
> # ls -l /usr/X11R6 /home/steve/X11R6
> tell you?
> I'm currently a bit confused.
>
>
>
> > If this is true, what could I have done in the past that would of seen an
> > entire directory structure deleted by deleting the link?
> >
> > Tks for your input.
> >
> > Steve
> > ___
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Re: Downloading OOo, other ports outside of the system?

[Daniela]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 20:48, Preston Crawford wrote:
> I have what may seem like an odd question. I have a new FreeBSD 4.9 system
> that I want to install OpenOffice and some other stuff on. Most of the
> stuff left to install is pretty big and thus will be hard to download via
> ports over my dial-up connection (yes, I use dial-up). I know it's possible
> to download tarballs and drop them into the ports tree somewhere so you
> don't have to do the download. I'm wondering how easy this is, though. By
> that I mean, if I wanted to say install Tomcat, Java, OpenOffice, etc. in
> this manner how would I know which package to download? And from where? I'd
> like to download these at work, burn them on a CD and take them home.
> However, since I'm not in front of my machine I don't know where ports will
> be looking for these files. Anyone know?

Look into the makefile for the port.
There's a line starting with MASTER_SITES, you can download from any of these.
The variable DISTFILES contains the name of the file.

Daniela


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crontab

[Darryl Hoar]

Greetings,
I am running 4.7 and want to use cron to run a command.
when I look in /var/cron/tabs, there is not a file for root.
If I do a crontab -e its blank.

I thought there was a template already, with example
commented out.  Do I have to create this file from
scratch ?

thanks,
-D
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Re: symlink confusion

[Daniela]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 19:48, Steve Bertrand wrote:
> Could someone please briefly describe the reactions to the following
> actions? Sometimes I delete the original directories by deleting links,
> and hopefully someone can give me some insight.
>
> # ln -s /home/steve/directory /tmp/directory
> # rm /tmp/directory
>
> In testing, the original directory (/home/steve/directory) did not get
> removed, but in reality, I am dealing with my X11R6 directory which had to
> be moved temporarily to make room for a port install.
>
> # ln -s /usr/X11R6 /home/steve/X11R6
>
> Which put a new link from the original to the new location.
>
> If I # rm /home/steve/X11R6, will I be safe as to not delete the original
> directory?

What does:
# ls -l /usr/X11R6 /home/steve/X11R6
tell you?
I'm currently a bit confused.



> If this is true, what could I have done in the past that would of seen an
> entire directory structure deleted by deleting the link?
>
> Tks for your input.
>
> Steve
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Re: symlink confusion

[Daniela]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 20:38, Marty Landman wrote:
> At 03:00 PM 11/12/2003, you wrote:
> ># ln -s /home/steve/directory /tmp/directory
> ># rm /tmp/directory
> >
> >In testing, the original directory (/home/steve/directory) did not get
> > removed
>
> I'm a newbie Steve so maybe will be asking more than answering here. But
> isn't it the case that with a soft link as you created in the first line in
> the second line you'd only be deleting the link itself and not the actual
> directory? But if you used a hard link

You can't make hard links to directories.
See ln(1) for more info.

> # ln /home/steve/directory /tmp/directory
> # rm /tmp/directory
>
> then the real directory would be deleted?
>
>
> Marty Landman   Face 2 Interface Inc 845-679-9387
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Which version of Java to use?

[Preston Crawford]

I want to install Java to use Ant/Tomcat/Struts stuff like that. Which JDK is the 
"right" one to install to get these to work properly? Can anyone tell me?

Preston

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Downloading OOo, other ports outside of the system?

[Preston Crawford]

I have what may seem like an odd question. I have a new FreeBSD 4.9 system that I want 
to install OpenOffice and some other stuff on. Most of the stuff left to install is 
pretty big and thus will be hard to download via ports over my dial-up connection 
(yes, I use dial-up). I know it's possible to download tarballs and drop them into the 
ports tree somewhere so you don't have to do the download. I'm wondering how easy this 
is, though. By that I mean, if I wanted to say install Tomcat, Java, OpenOffice, etc. 
in this manner how would I know which package to download? And from where? I'd like to 
download these at work, burn them on a CD and take them home. However, since I'm not 
in front of my machine I don't know where ports will be looking for these files. 
Anyone know?

Preston

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Re: FreeBSD Essay.

[Alex de Kruijff]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:01:36PM +, Lewis Thompson wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm a first year CS student at Manchester and I've been given the task
> of writing a 1,000 word essay on something computer-related.  It can be
> pretty much anything I want (I think).  I've decided FreeBSD is
> interesting, the OS I advocate and that I shall write about this.
> 
>   I am planning to write a brief history of the four BSDs, going way
> back in time (probably a few words on Ritchie, etc.) but then
> concentrate on FreeBSD.

My advise would be to pick one subject and stick with that. Don't go
into the history in general if you for something detailed about FreeBSD
and if you go for the hirstory don't write about something detailed.
You'll proberbly find that you have lots to write about.

I have two subjects you may like:
1. The history starting from 1978 until now. Perhaps something about the
feutere of BSD (dead), BSDi (could be dead), FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD.
2. FreeBSD 5 (History of FreeBSD 5, feutes, compersent betwain 4 and 5
and 5 and linux. If you have space over one detailed subject.)

The history in it self should be larg enove and intersating on its own.
You could start with the outcomming of Unix and go on to the univeristy
of Berkley. Then go to the outcomming of FreeBSD, NetBSD and BSDi.
Followed by the lawsute betain Unix and BSDi & BSD. Then OpenBSD came
out in 1995. Recently Apple followed with Darwin (based on NetBSD and
FreeBSD). As altenative there are two CD versions (NetBox and FreeBIE)
and a small version (PicoBSD) wich are based on FreeBSD. Ending with a
compersent betwain all versions.

>   I'm really asking if anybody can suggest any particularly interesting
> topics that I can go away and research and then include in my essay.  I
> guess since it's only a short essay I can't have /too/ much detail and I
> didn't particularly want to try and explain something /very/ complicated
> (although please suggest just the same ;).

Another subject would be the outcomming of FreeBSD 5. If you go this way
skip the general history!! Only go for the relevent history for this
version. Then coninue on the new and cool feutures of FreeBSD 5. Maybe
talk about one or two in more detail. And a compersent betwain FreeBSD 4
and 5.

-- 
Alex

Articles based on solutions that I use:
http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/
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symlink confusion

[Marty Landman]

At 03:00 PM 11/12/2003, you wrote:

# ln -s /home/steve/directory /tmp/directory
# rm /tmp/directory
In testing, the original directory (/home/steve/directory) did not get removed
I'm a newbie Steve so maybe will be asking more than answering here. But 
isn't it the case that with a soft link as you created in the first line in 
the second line you'd only be deleting the link itself and not the actual 
directory? But if you used a hard link

# ln /home/steve/directory /tmp/directory
# rm /tmp/directory
then the real directory would be deleted?

Marty Landman   Face 2 Interface Inc 845-679-9387
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Re: newbie dns mess w/ nic

[Steve Bertrand]

> I had everything working as evidenced by installing a port or two -
> including the Lynx browser which worked; then rebooted last night and now
> can't get dns working again.
>
> My LAN has a windoz xp box with dial up and ICS enabled. It is 192.168.0.1
> on the network. My FBSD box will ping to localhost, 192.168.0.7 (itself),
> and other boxes on LAN by either name or IP. But when I try to ping google
> etc.. I get "No route to host".
>

Add the following to your /etc/rc.conf file:

default_router="192.168.0.1"

and then perform the following command to get it online without a reboot:

# route add default 192.168.0.1

Hope this helps.

Steve

>
> $ cat /etc/rc.conf
>
> # -- sysinstall generated deltas -- # Sat Nov  8 18:24:40 2003
> # Created: Sat Nov  8 18:24:40 2003
> # Enable network daemons for user convenience.
> # Please make all changes to this file, not to /etc/defaults/rc.conf.
> # This file no longer contains just the overrides from /etc/defaults/rc.conf.
> hostname="fbsd.my.domain"
> kern_securelevel_enable="NO"
> linux_enable="YES"
> moused_enable="YES"
> nfs_reserved_port_only="YES"
> sendmail_enable="YES"
> sshd_enable="YES"
> ifconfig_ep0="inet 192.168.0.7 netmask 255.255.255.0 media 10baseT/UTP"
> firewall_enable="no"
>
>
> $ cat /usr/local/etc/rc.d/landns.root.sh
> #!/bin/sh
> natd -dynamic -interface ep0
> dhclient ep0
> ifconfig ep0 inet 192.168.0.7 255.255.255.0
> echo Everone Feeling Better Now? 8^}
>
>
> $ netstat -rn
> Routing tables
>
> Internet:
> DestinationGatewayFlagsRefs  Use  Netif Expire
> 127.0.0.1  127.0.0.1  UH  26lo0
> 192.168.0  link#1 UC  30ep0
> 192.168.0.100:08:74:c0:5e:69  UHLW2  200ep0   1065
> 192.168.0.700:20:af:4d:24:b7  UHLW04lo0
> 192.168.0.150  00:a0:cc:40:55:cf  UHLW02ep0735
> 192.168.0.222  127.0.0.1  UGHS02lo0
>
> Internet6:
> Destination   Gateway   Flags
> Netif Expire
> ::1   ::1   UH  lo0
> fe80::%ep0/64 link#1UC  ep0
> fe80::220:afff:fe4d:24b7%ep0  00:20:af:4d:24:b7 UHL lo0
> fe80::%lo0/64 fe80::1%lo0   Uc  lo0
> fe80::1%lo0   link#4UHL lo0
> ff01::/32 ::1   U   lo0
> ff02::%ep0/32 link#1UC  ep0
> ff02::%lo0/32 ::1   UC  lo0
>
>
>
> $ ifconfig -a
> ep0: flags=8843 mtu 1500
>  inet6 fe80::220:afff:fe4d:24b7%ep0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
>  inet 192.168.0.7 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 255.255.255.0
>  ether 00:20:af:4d:24:b7
>  media: Ethernet 10baseT/UTP
> lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500
> faith0: flags=8002 mtu 1500
> lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384
>  inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
>  inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4
>  inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00
> ppp0: flags=8010 mtu 1500
> sl0: flags=c010 mtu 552
> $
>
>
> Hey, at least I've got local connectivity stable now so I can copy and
> paste this stuff... oops maybe I shouldn't have even said anything to jinx
> this.  being>
>
>
> Marty Landman   Face 2 Interface Inc 845-679-9387
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> Make a Website: http://face2interface.com/Home/Demo.shtml
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Re: I need Help Please.

[Vulpes Velox]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:15:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
"darkstarmaster21" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello My name is Ron. I'm a newbie to FreeBSD. I downloaded a copy to my
> machine and created a iso. Burned it and installed the system with not much
> trouble. The problem is I have a old Gateway  G6-266m with 128mb ram , a
> CDrom, & burner and 2 Drives One has XP Pro on it and is switchable by the
> bios on which can boot up first.   I installed version 5.1 FreeBSD which
> took 3 cd's to be burned, what I cant understand is it never asks for more
> than one cd. I never even looked at the other two. cause I can't get my
> display to work. I tried xf86Config and other I found in the /usr/X11R6/bin
> folder but nothing works right. 

To get a working XF86Config use XFree86 -configure. Then move that file to
/etc/X11/XF86Config  Then to config the file use xf86cfg -textmode to configure
it.

Note: on some systems you may  have to go in and comment out the dri line on
some gfx cards.
 
> I have a RIVA 128 card in here with 4 mb ram and it always crashes and never
> starts. I switched to a generic vga card and it started but it was 640 x 
> 280 way too big to use and see. I'm stuck. I cant remember the commands and
> I'm unable to use midnight commander for which I'm used to when looking thru
> directory.I truly want to master this system and become a help to others
> when I'm better, but I'm afraid I don't know enough.  I looked for a listing
> of commands and all i see is stuff I don't quite understand. I'm trying to
> get away from windows completely so I can be a champion for linux/ unix but
> I cant even demonstrate what I can do with it with the limited knowledge I
> have. I tried the commands I know in linux but this is pure unix which is a
> lot better and more secure and a lot harder.   Please help me and I will be
> glad to bring other to the fold and teach them someday.

Uhm, having a error message to go by would be really useful. Hmm, if this is
your first time trying stuff like this, don't worry about it, some of the finer
parts of unix take awhile to learn.

Here are some good starting places...
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html
http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html
http://wks.uts.ohio-state.edu/unix_course/unix.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/index.html
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi


Generally the best way to get help on a specific command is to use man... do a
mam man to find more out about the man program.

> I can be reached at home at 215-324-1605 or by e-mail.   I know you guy's
> can get me up to speed but I plan to give back someday. So teach me well and
> I can help carry the burden someday.
>
> I have DSL as well and I wanted to connect my FreeBSD to my  other PC thru a
> crossover cable to my second NIC ( win2000 machine- has DSL on 1st Nic card)
>  can you tell me what I need to do to connect and will this be networked
> finally. I have been trying for 2 weeks and I'm at the point I want to give
> up cause I'm not able to  ping the w2k box from my bsd box at all. I think
> this is enough for now. I'm confident that I'm in the right place for help
> now.   

Lets make this part simple... use the freebsd box for nat and not the win2k
machine. Check out the nat page in the
handbook(http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-natd
.html and if you have not done so, read the rest of the handbook. Just put on of
the nics in the bsd box on dhcp for the dsl adapter and the other to something
like 192.168.0.1. Now plug your win2k machine into the second one and give it
something like 192.168.0.2 and tell it to use 192.168.0.1 as the gateway.

Hope this has been of help. If you have any other questions feel free to ask :)
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Re: pkgdb / portupgrade segfault

[Chris]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 01:38 pm, Will Yardley wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> > On Tuesday 11 November 2003 01:08 pm, Will Yardley wrote:
> > > I have portupgrade version 20030723, installed from ports. I'm having
> > > some problems with it.
> > >
> > > Running pkgdb -Fv gives a segfault.
> > >
> > > aura# pkgdb -Fv
> >
> > Try this:  pkgdb -fuF
>
> That seems to work - thanks. Presumably a corrupt pkgdb or something?
>
> Would be nice if portupgrade gave nicer errors, though.

That would be a correct assumtion. Sometimes things happen. Most of the time 
though, the DB will get corrupt when the user "break" the portupgrade. 

That's been my experiance anyways. So, as a rule of thumb, only "break" 
portupgrade when it's absolutly, 100 percent, needed.  

I don't care what anyone says - to me, you just DON'T break access to any 
database. 

-- 

Best regards,
 Chris
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french accent + keyboard

[HYVERNAT Philippe]

hello,

i have a freebsd 4.8 release and i have an azerty keyboard, but accents 
doesn't functions. I have the line : keymap="fr.iso.acc" in the rc.conf 
file but nothing

could you help me please

Thank you

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newbie dns mess w/ nic

[Marty Landman]

I had everything working as evidenced by installing a port or two - 
including the Lynx browser which worked; then rebooted last night and now 
can't get dns working again.

My LAN has a windoz xp box with dial up and ICS enabled. It is 192.168.0.1 
on the network. My FBSD box will ping to localhost, 192.168.0.7 (itself), 
and other boxes on LAN by either name or IP. But when I try to ping google 
etc.. I get "No route to host".

$ cat /etc/rc.conf

# -- sysinstall generated deltas -- # Sat Nov  8 18:24:40 2003
# Created: Sat Nov  8 18:24:40 2003
# Enable network daemons for user convenience.
# Please make all changes to this file, not to /etc/defaults/rc.conf.
# This file no longer contains just the overrides from /etc/defaults/rc.conf.
hostname="fbsd.my.domain"
kern_securelevel_enable="NO"
linux_enable="YES"
moused_enable="YES"
nfs_reserved_port_only="YES"
sendmail_enable="YES"
sshd_enable="YES"
ifconfig_ep0="inet 192.168.0.7 netmask 255.255.255.0 media 10baseT/UTP"
firewall_enable="no"
$ cat /usr/local/etc/rc.d/landns.root.sh
#!/bin/sh
natd -dynamic -interface ep0
dhclient ep0
ifconfig ep0 inet 192.168.0.7 255.255.255.0
echo Everone Feeling Better Now? 8^}
$ netstat -rn
Routing tables
Internet:
DestinationGatewayFlagsRefs  Use  Netif Expire
127.0.0.1  127.0.0.1  UH  26lo0
192.168.0  link#1 UC  30ep0
192.168.0.100:08:74:c0:5e:69  UHLW2  200ep0   1065
192.168.0.700:20:af:4d:24:b7  UHLW04lo0
192.168.0.150  00:a0:cc:40:55:cf  UHLW02ep0735
192.168.0.222  127.0.0.1  UGHS02lo0
Internet6:
Destination   Gateway   Flags 
Netif Expire
::1   ::1   UH  lo0
fe80::%ep0/64 link#1UC  ep0
fe80::220:afff:fe4d:24b7%ep0  00:20:af:4d:24:b7 UHL lo0
fe80::%lo0/64 fe80::1%lo0   Uc  lo0
fe80::1%lo0   link#4UHL lo0
ff01::/32 ::1   U   lo0
ff02::%ep0/32 link#1UC  ep0
ff02::%lo0/32 ::1   UC  lo0



$ ifconfig -a
ep0: flags=8843 mtu 1500
inet6 fe80::220:afff:fe4d:24b7%ep0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
inet 192.168.0.7 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 255.255.255.0
ether 00:20:af:4d:24:b7
media: Ethernet 10baseT/UTP
lp0: flags=8810 mtu 1500
faith0: flags=8002 mtu 1500
lo0: flags=8049 mtu 16384
inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4
inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff00
ppp0: flags=8010 mtu 1500
sl0: flags=c010 mtu 552
$
Hey, at least I've got local connectivity stable now so I can copy and 
paste this stuff... oops maybe I shouldn't have even said anything to jinx 
this. 

Marty Landman   Face 2 Interface Inc 845-679-9387
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Re: md5/des ?

[Shantanoo Mahajan]

+++ Oles Hnatkevych [freebsd] [12-11-03 13:23 +0200]:
| Hello!
| 
| /usr/bin/passwd does my passwords MD5 encrypted (accordingly to /etc/login.conf)
| But /usr/sbin/adduser creates users with DES encrypted passwords.
| How do I make it use MD5 instead of DES? Seems like it's perls crypt()
| problem, and the DES is the default...
| 
| 
| --

man login.conf | grep passwd_format -A 5

Regards,
Shantanoo
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Re: FreeBSD Essay.

[paul beard]

Lewis Thompson wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm a first year CS student at Manchester and I've been given the task
of writing a 1,000 word essay on something computer-related.  It can be
pretty much anything I want (I think).  I've decided FreeBSD is
interesting, the OS I advocate and that I shall write about this.
  I am planning to write a brief history of the four BSDs, going way
back in time (probably a few words on Ritchie, etc.) but then
concentrate on FreeBSD.
I think showing the pedigree is a good idea. I would extend it to 
discuss and demonstrate how FreeBSD is a system with solid design 
principles and a resourceful community around it. It's benefits 
are more than technical, as anyone on this list can attest.

Given the short length, I think an overview of how FreeBSD came to 
be, it's strengths, and whatever seems appropriate in the 
projected evolution would be worth reading.

  I'm really asking if anybody can suggest any particularly interesting
topics that I can go away and research and then include in my essay.  I
guess since it's only a short essay I can't have /too/ much detail and I
didn't particularly want to try and explain something /very/ complicated
(although please suggest just the same ;).


--
Paul Beard

whois -h whois.networksolutions.com ha=pb202
Who messed with my anti-paranoia shot?

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Re: invalid argument

[Jason]

Gregory Stearns wrote:

I have used mount -t cd9660 /dev/acd0c /cdrom
and mount_cd9660 /cdrom
It tells me that it is an invalid argument. I have a toshiba satelite laptop and I am running ver 4.7. My cdrom is a cdrw. What should I try next?
Thank you
 

You syntax looks good, but do you have acd0c in your /dev/ file?  Do $ls 
/dev and look for acd entries.  My computers has acd0, and thats it.  So 
I use $ mount_cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom.

Jason

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symlink confusion

[Steve Bertrand]

Could someone please briefly describe the reactions to the following
actions? Sometimes I delete the original directories by deleting links,
and hopefully someone can give me some insight.

# ln -s /home/steve/directory /tmp/directory
# rm /tmp/directory

In testing, the original directory (/home/steve/directory) did not get
removed, but in reality, I am dealing with my X11R6 directory which had to
be moved temporarily to make room for a port install.

# ln -s /usr/X11R6 /home/steve/X11R6

Which put a new link from the original to the new location.

If I # rm /home/steve/X11R6, will I be safe as to not delete the original
directory?

If this is true, what could I have done in the past that would of seen an
entire directory structure deleted by deleting the link?

Tks for your input.

Steve
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Re: statvfs.h

[SWIT]

find brings back nothing on my system.
mark
- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "M.D. DeWar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: statvfs.h


> M.D. DeWar wrote:
>
> >were do yo u get header files ?
> >or can't you ?
> >
> >I am trying to load a webmin module and it needs some perl modules and
one
> >filesys::statvfs needs the header file
> >statsvfs.h and I donthave it.
> >
> >thanks
> >mark
> >
> >
> >
> #find / -name statvfs.h -print
> /usr/include/sys/statvfs.h
> /usr/src/sys/sys/statvfs.h
>
> HTH,
>
> Kevin Kinsey
> DaleCo, S.P.
>
>
>


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Re: Newbie: Correct directory for file server

[Tom Munro Glass]

Thanks Chris and Scott for your input on this subject - I've found it most 
helpful.

The freedom to tweak the system to your own way of working is great, and I now 
feel I am better informed on how to do this without doing anything radical 
that I will regret in years to come.

Thanks again to you both.

Tom

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Re: pkgdb / portupgrade segfault

[Will Yardley]

Chris wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 November 2003 01:08 pm, Will Yardley wrote:

> > I have portupgrade version 20030723, installed from ports. I'm having
> > some problems with it.
> >
> > Running pkgdb -Fv gives a segfault.
> >
> > aura# pkgdb -Fv
> 
> Try this:  pkgdb -fuF

That seems to work - thanks. Presumably a corrupt pkgdb or something?

Would be nice if portupgrade gave nicer errors, though.
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invalid argument

[Gregory Stearns]

I have used mount -t cd9660 /dev/acd0c /cdrom
and mount_cd9660 /cdrom
It tells me that it is an invalid argument. I have a toshiba satelite laptop and I am 
running ver 4.7. My cdrom is a cdrw. What should I try next?
Thank you
-- 
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FreeBSD Essay.

[Lewis Thompson]

Hey guys,

I'm a first year CS student at Manchester and I've been given the task
of writing a 1,000 word essay on something computer-related.  It can be
pretty much anything I want (I think).  I've decided FreeBSD is
interesting, the OS I advocate and that I shall write about this.

  I am planning to write a brief history of the four BSDs, going way
back in time (probably a few words on Ritchie, etc.) but then
concentrate on FreeBSD.

  I'm really asking if anybody can suggest any particularly interesting
topics that I can go away and research and then include in my essay.  I
guess since it's only a short essay I can't have /too/ much detail and I
didn't particularly want to try and explain something /very/ complicated
(although please suggest just the same ;).

  Somebody already suggested ``man hier'' but I'm not sure that's really
technical enough, and problably not particularly specific to FreeBSD.

  Thanks very much -- any and all suggestions are very welcome :)

-lewiz.

-- 
I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.  --Bob Dylan, 1964.

-| msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | url:www.lewiz.org |-


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Mysterious manpage & *roff problems solved (SOLUTION)

[Forrest Aldrich]

I had posted recently regarding a mysterious problem I had with my manpage 
subsystem not working properly.  This has been a problem for quite some time.

After analyzing ktrace/kdump outputs, removing any conflicting *roff files 
in /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/share, we still couldn't get it 
working.   Interestingly, there are no indications of *roff in /var/db/pkg, 
so I have no idea how it ended up under /usr/local to begin with.

The solution, thanks to Larry Rosenman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, was to backup my 
/usr/src/sys/i386/conf file and "rm -rf" the entire /usr/src and /usr/obj 
trees, then re-CVSup (putting back my kernel config) and rebuild/reinstall 
the system.

It was a pickle - as the problem just didn't seem obvious.  So, somewhere 
along the line something got munged up in the /usr/src directory.

I hope this solution helps someone out there that may get bitten by 
this.   And again thanks to Larry.



Forrest

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Re: Newbie: Touchy Travan tape drive rewind problem

[Bill Campbell]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003, Christophe wrote:
>I've installed FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE on a Dell 400SC with an ATA Travan 
>tape drive, accessing it through /dev/ast0.  On linear writing 
>operations, it works great... but there appears to be some kind of 
>timeout problem on rewind:

A good general rule about using the Travan tape drives is -- don't.

We used them for about a year until they started giving all kinds of wierd
problems that appeared to be hardware related, timeouts, not able to read
tapes after they were written, etc.

Bill
--
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UUCP:   camco!bill  PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way
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URL: http://www.celestial.com/

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common.
Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts
to fit their views ... which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to
be one of the facts that needs altering.
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RE: internet setup

[Aaron Burke]

> B F wrote:
> 
> >Can someone just tell me step by step how to get my internet 
> running starting from a FreeBSD clean install?  I have spent days 
> trying different things I've read on websites and books, but have 
> yet to get it working.  Thanks.
> >
> I'm new to BSD, but if it was Windows I'd just tell you to enable DHCP 
> on the FreeBSD box to get your network settings from your cable modem, 
> and be happy.  If that's not your style, then give your BSD box the 
> network settings manually (probably 192.168.x.y for the IP address, with 
> 255.255.255.0 as a subnet mask.  Just pick something with a different 
> final number than either of your other machines.  ;) )
If you get the address via DHCP, run the following (my interface is ed0).
alpha# dhclient ed0

And if you want it to get the address on boot, add the following to
/etc/rc.conf
ifconfig_ed0="DHCP"  #internet connection

If you want it to be a router as well, add the following to rc.conf
gateway_enable="YES"



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Re: converting real media audio ... ENCODING working?

[BSD baby]

While we're on the subject, has anyone gotten the Linux version of the Real Audio 
Producer (encoder) to work?

It's a commercial app from RealNetworks that I downloaded and did a core dump when 
trying to run.
(Sorry I forget details now.)

Just wondering if anyone's ever successfully done RealAudio ENCODING on FreeBSD?


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Re: ssh has a delay when typing

[datafirm]

List,

Yes, I am connecting to the machine remotely via the internet.. The lag 
is not acceptable, and this same lag and delay happened when I had 
another FreeBSD machine on our local network. Any more ideas? I have 
never experienced this behavior on any other unix machines.

TIA

will



On Nov 12, 2003, at 3:31 AM, Kris Kennaway wrote:

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 12:15:45AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
List,

I have searched the list and have not found a solution. I have also
upgraded to the latest in the ports tree. I am running FreeBSD 4.9
Release.
I can connect to the machine fine, but after connected I get random
pauses and delays while typing.
Any ideas?
Please provide more details about your setup.  For example, if you're
SSH'ing to a remote machine on the internet, this would be expected
behaviour.
kris


--will

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Re: backup drive bootabel

[Matthew Seaman]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 09:20:14AM -0800, Noah wrote:

> I will consider it.  in the mean time can somebody explain to me how to make
> the 2nd drive bootable.  I have seen many different ways to do this.  can you
> direct me to the most optimal.  I want to place a boot section that has no
> menu and no options.  just load teh kernel and go.

These are SCSI drives? So one disk is da0 and the other is da1.  

There's two ways to work this:

i) Make the 2nd disk an identical copy to the 1st one.  In this case
should the 1st drive go AWOL, you would have to open the case and
either remove the first drive or modify the jumpering on the disks to
swap their order on the bus.  You will need to mark the FreeBSD slice
bootable in the disk partition label by running:

# boot0cfg -B -b /boot/mbr -s 1 da1

So long as the slice tables and disklabels on da0 and da1 are pretty
much the same, either disk should boot up smoothly.

ii) Set up the system so that you can boot from either disk at will,
without having to fiddle around with the hardware at all. This means
that the settings on the two drives cannot be exactly the same:
specifically the /etc/fstab file on each disk should reference the
filesystems on the same disk: da0 on da0 or da1 on da1.

Now, you can boot from either disk by interrupting the boot process by
hitting a key while the spinning cursor is showing (| / - \ ...)
[That's before the system loads the kernel and prints the message
about the 10s countdown] -- it can be tricky to catch the system at
this stage especially if booting from a fast device.

At the boot: prompt, type:

0:da(0,a)/kernel

to boot from da0, or

1:da(0,a)/kernel

to boot from da1.

If you take this route, you may find it more convenient to set up the
machine for dual-boot with the slightly unusual configuration of two
copies of the same OS.
 
In this case you'll need to install the FreeBSD boot block, which will
mean that you get a prompt at boot time where you can choose which
disk to boot from, but unless you start hitting the function keys,
after a short delay the system will carry on an boot up from the same
disk as the previous boot:

# boot0cfg -B -b /boot/boot0 da0
# boot0cfg -B -b /boot/boot0 da1

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   26 The Paddocks
  Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
Tel: +44 1628 476614  Bucks., SL7 1TH UK


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Multiple IPs in Jail

[FB]

Hey all  -

We patched mijail5 (http://garage.freebsd.pl/mijail.README) against
RELENG_5_1. Most of the patch was successful with a little fuzz, except  for
a couple lines in jls which didn't patch due to cosmetic changes (easily
fixed). 

Before the patch was applied, the jail environment had no problem with dns.
After the patch was applied  however (and userland rebuilt both on host and
jail), dns breaks in the jail environment. Basically, gethostbyname  fails
and h_errno is set to 2 - Host name lookup failure. the system is configured
properly, since the only changes  are to the kernel and the modified jail
mechanism. Also interesting is that the failure is immediate, there is no
timeout. 
  
However, inbound/outbound TCP traffic is not effected. - we are able to ssh
in/out of the jailed environment. 
I was testing outbound UDP traffic however - simple matter of binding a
socket to send a packet to a remote host. 
  
Outside the jail, it worked fine. inside the jail, sendto failed with a
EINVAL error. 
  
Any help on this topic would be much appreciated. 


-Mike 


PS: I apologize for the cross-post to the freebsd-hackers and
freebsd-questions lists... Need to get this box up ASAP and this is a major
setback.

---
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Re: converting real media audio

[Joan Picanyol i Puig]

* Dan Pelleg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [20031112 17:23]:
> Joan Picanyol i Puig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > * Dan Pelleg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [20031112 15:12]:
> >> Joan Picanyol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> > I've found two speeches in Real Audio format I'd like to burn on
> >> > a CD.  I'm able to reproduce them fine with linux-reaplayer, but
> >> > sox doesn't understand the format. What's the one liner to dump
> >> > what is sounding on my speakers to a file sox can convert (which
> >> > device shoud I cat?)? Is there some utility to convert from .rm
> >> > files to .wav?
> >> Run realplayer under linux-vsound (in the ports).
> > Thanks for the tip, however it doesn't quite work:
> >
> > (16:24:25 <~>) 0 $ vsound -f appel.wav
> > /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay /home/pub/25/Audio/appel\[1\].rm
> > Missing file ./vsound61809.au.  This means that the libvsound
> > wrapper did not work correctlty. A possible reason is that the
> > program you are trying to run is setuid. In this case you will need
> > to run vsound as root.  (16:24:51 <~>) 0 $ sudo vsound -f appel.wav
> > /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay /home/pub/25/Audio/appel\[1\].rm
> > Missing file ./vsound62032.au.  This means that the libvsound
> > wrapper did not work correctlty. A possible reason is that the
> > program you are trying to run is setuid. In this case you will need
> > to run vsound as root.  (16:27:22 <~>) 0 $ ls -l
> > /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay -r-xr-xr-x  1 root  wheel
> > 1247004 Nov  5 17:16 /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay
> >
> > What am I doing wrong?
> My notes (for streaming media) have the -d and -s switches. My guess
> is what you actually need is just the -d.
Thanks, that did the trick. At least with linux-reaplayer you need -d -s
and redirect to a file.

tks
-- 
pica
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Re: backup drive scheme

[Matthew Seaman]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:46:39AM -0800, Noah wrote:
> 
> FreeBSD 4.8 -STABLE
> 
> I currently have two 120GB SCSI drives in a machine.  one drive is the main
> disk and the other drive is a complete exact copy of the first drive.
> 
> I am using rsync every 24 hours to backup drive 1 to drive 2.  can somebody
> recommend another backup solution here?  Things are working fine right now. 
> just trying to figure out other solutions?

That's not a bad system per se -- would you care to elaborate what
about that scheme is unsatisfactory?  What sort of characteristics are
you looking for in your backup scheme: for instance how long do you
want to retain backups for?  How much stuff do you want to backup?
What about keeping off-site copies? Is it more important to be able to
recover a system quickly or is it more important to cram as many
copies of the data as possible onto the available media?

Cheers,

Matthew

-- 
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   26 The Paddocks
  Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
Tel: +44 1628 476614  Bucks., SL7 1TH UK


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Newbie: Touchy Travan tape drive rewind problem

[Christophe]

I've installed FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE on a Dell 400SC with an ATA Travan 
tape drive, accessing it through /dev/ast0.  On linear writing 
operations, it works great... but there appears to be some kind of 
timeout problem on rewind:

# mt -f /dev/nast0 rewind
mt: /dev/nast0: rewind: Input/output error
From console:

Nov 12 11:28:02 bs4 /kernel: ast0: REZERO command timeout - resetting
Nov 12 11:28:02 bs4 /kernel: ata1: resetting devices .. done
This error does not appear if the tape is already rewound.  Any thoughts?
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ip-up script of pppd no triggered

[Jim Xochellis]

Hi list,

I need persuade pppd to call its ip-up script in order to add a 
non-default route when the link is up and running. Unfortunately it 
seems that my ip-up script is not being called. The mode of the file is 
rwxr-xr-x and the owner root:wheel. I am calling the pppd from inside a 
"/usr/local/etc/rc.d/ppp.sh" script by using the following command:
"/usr/sbin/pppd /dev/cuaa0 115200 A.A.A.A:B.B.B.B noauth persist 
netmask 255.255.255.252"

Am I doing something wrong?

Best Regards
Jim Xochellis
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Re: Another Newbie Question: C or C++

[Jerry McAllister]

> 
> >I would recommend not trying to learn C or C++ by yourself from a book.
> >The fastest (and best way) to learn the right stuff is to take coursework 
> >from a university or community college.
> 
> >If the courses are any good, you'll get feedback, and you'll be paced
> >and challenged with projects designed to help you learn.
> >
> >Going it alone in an unguided environment will only familiarize you
> >the lesser aspects of a language, if you last that long. The difficult
> >and most important aspects of the language (like pointers, virtual 
> >functions, references) will become almost insurmountable trial-and-error 
> >obstacles if you try to teach yourself.

This is a good point.  The person who takes a class should (prividing the 
class is well done) be guided through the whole range of the language.
Whereas someone learning on their own just picks up the pieces they
need at the moment and then fixates on those parts and doesn't go on
to learn the whole range of the language.

> If you want to get a lower paying and boring job programming in C/C++ for 
> whatever reason and have a piece of paper that says you can have that job, I 
> recommend wasting 4-6 months taking a course in your spare time to learn 
> C/C++. If you want to be top of your game and learn C/C++ without wasting 
> time on topics that take you a minute to understand, get a good book, 
> practice the topics you have learned at your own pace, get numorous code 
> examples for things you may want to do (sockets, GUI, OpenGL, ncurses, 
> threading, kernel interfacing) from the glorious and infinite internet and 
> emulate good programming style (using const qualifiers in C++, using 
> #defines in C, etc.). Also be prepared to teach yourself because you may not 
> always be prepared for a job you may find yourself with; learn how to easily 
> learn and use external libraries.

The only really valuable thing from this flame is the implication that
you must go on and keep using the new learning and add to it from
man sources.   It is not a waste of time to learn it right from the start.

> The best programmers will teach themselves. A statement that may be on the 
> borderline of opinion to fact by constant example. After all the first 
> programmer, in fact, taught herself.

And it was a lifelong mistake-filled iterative process.   If the material 
was already there in the beginning as it is for C, C++, Fortran, Assembly,
etc, then that lifelong process could have started at a higher level of
understanding and moved on from their instead of having to spend so
many years of rummaging around at the primative levels.

Mostly, I am just responding to the making of a sweeping generalization
that may apply to a very few, but for the most is meaningless.  It seems
to take a narrow viewpoint to make up a flame.

jerry

> -Rian Hunter
> 
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Re: Another Newbie Question: C or C++

[Louis LeBlanc]

On 11/12/03 12:09 PM, yo _ sat at the `puter and typed:
> >I would recommend not trying to learn C or C++ by yourself from a book.
> >The fastest (and best way) to learn the right stuff is to take coursework 
> >from a university or community college.
> 
> Not that I like disagreeing for no good reason, but I wholeheartedly 
> disagree with that statement.
> 
> >If the courses are any good, you'll get feedback, and you'll be paced
> >and challenged with projects designed to help you learn.
> >
> >Going it alone in an unguided environment will only familiarize you
> >the lesser aspects of a language, if you last that long. The difficult
> >and most important aspects of the language (like pointers, virtual 
> >functions, references) will become almost insurmountable trial-and-error 
> >obstacles if you try to teach yourself.
> 
> If you want to get a lower paying and boring job programming in C/C++ for 
> whatever reason and have a piece of paper that says you can have that job, I 
> recommend wasting 4-6 months taking a course in your spare time to learn 
> C/C++. If you want to be top of your game and learn C/C++ without wasting 
> time on topics that take you a minute to understand, get a good book, 
> practice the topics you have learned at your own pace, get numorous code 
> examples for things you may want to do (sockets, GUI, OpenGL, ncurses, 
> threading, kernel interfacing) from the glorious and infinite internet and 
> emulate good programming style (using const qualifiers in C++, using 
> #defines in C, etc.). Also be prepared to teach yourself because you may not 
> always be prepared for a job you may find yourself with; learn how to easily 
> learn and use external libraries.
> 
> The best programmers will teach themselves. A statement that may be on the 
> borderline of opinion to fact by constant example. After all the first 
> programmer, in fact, taught herself.
> -Rian Hunter

I seem to remember another common saying: "A person who is self taught
has a fool for a teacher"

Not that I entirely disagree with your statement, but the "first
programmer" if I understand your meaning, never presented her first
attempt for approval to the current codeset - at least I didn't get
the memo.  All I have is the secondhand publishing of several
different, and mostly conflicted sets of operating instructions, most
of which are even self conflicting.  So self taught isn't necessarily
right the first time - unless the docs are all forged :)  Then again,
I could be entirely mistaken about your meaning, so feel free to
ignore my babble before flaming (in fact, please do :).

Besides, every person is different.  Some people need some degree of
structure to focus them.  Others do better on a 'spur of the moment'
schedule, where they spend time learning when it will be productive.
I go for a walk down the middle of these perfectly valid, if
fundamentalist, approaches.  A person who only learns in school never
learns outside of school.  OTOH, a person who avoids structured
learning environments will have a hard time in other structured
environments.

Most of my C++ knowledge was gained in school.  My much more extensive
C knowledge was entirely self taught.  Yes, I do have the occasional
pointer mishap, but I doubt there are many people who don't.

Lou
-- 
Louis LeBlanc   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :)
http://www.keyslapper.org ԿԬ

Old Japanese proverb:
  There are two kinds of fools -- those who never climb Mt. Fuji,
  and those who climb it twice.
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Re: backup drive bootabel

[Noah]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:38 -0500, Jason Stewart wrote
> Noah wrote:
> > FreeBSD 4.8-stable
> > 
> > 
> > I have about three different sources for making a drive bootable.  well I have
> > a  machine with two drives and the second drive is an exact backup of the
> > first.  but I need to make the 2nd drive bootable as well since this drive
> > will be plopped in if the first drive goes bad.  any recommendations on how to
> > do this?

Thanks Jason,

I will consider it.  in the mean time can somebody explain to me how to make
the 2nd drive bootable.  I have seen many different ways to do this.  can you
direct me to the most optimal.  I want to place a boot section that has no
menu and no options.  just load teh kernel and go.

- Noah




> > 
> > Please send me to a good web tutorial if need be.
> > 
> > - Noah
> > 
> > ___
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> > 
> 
> Seems like a good candidate for RAID 1 mirroring to me. See my reply 
> to your "backup drive scheme" message.
> 
> Jason


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RE: Routing problems

[Dimitris Xochellis]

Hi Vince, Hi list,

 --- Vince Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> > 
> > The 10.X.X.X subnet will never need to use any of
> the
> > services of the 193.X.X.X subnet or the 193.R.R.R
> > router. It will always access internet via its own
> > 10.R.R.R router, which only routes packets towards
> the
> > internet and never towards the 193.X.X.X subnet.
> Thus,
> > what's the need to do any of the above? 
> > 
> Well a packet originating on the 193.x.x.x network
> will have a return
> address on the 193.x.x.x network even after its been
> routed via the freebsd
> box, (unless you nat, which if your adsl router is a
> rubbish as mine was you
> may have to as i couldnt add static routes to mine,
> but thats another
> issue.) and so the 10.R.R.R router wont know where
> to forward to if it has
> no route to 10.x.x.x (or at least the sending host
> on that network.)
> 

Currently, I have solved all my problems, (it seems
so) without adding any routes to the 10.R.R.R router.
I have just added the 193.x.x.x interface to it and I
gave it an address in that interface. This seems to be
sufficient enough!

What I have learned from this problems is that a
router  can only route packets that are coming from
interfaces that it knows. Thus it either has to be a
member of the  source subnet or we have to
appropriately translate the addresses via NAT. Am I
right?

Although I have not followed your advice I am very
grateful to you, because you helped me think towards
the right direction. I will also keep in mind what you
have said in case I face problems in the future...

Thanks a lot
Jim Xochellis



Do You Yahoo!?
Αποκτήστε τη δωρεάν @yahoo.gr διεύθυνση σας στο http://www.otenet.gr
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Re: Another Newbie Question: C or C++

[yo _]

I would recommend not trying to learn C or C++ by yourself from a book.
The fastest (and best way) to learn the right stuff is to take coursework 
from a university or community college.
Not that I like disagreeing for no good reason, but I wholeheartedly 
disagree with that statement.

If the courses are any good, you'll get feedback, and you'll be paced
and challenged with projects designed to help you learn.
Going it alone in an unguided environment will only familiarize you
the lesser aspects of a language, if you last that long. The difficult
and most important aspects of the language (like pointers, virtual 
functions, references) will become almost insurmountable trial-and-error 
obstacles if you try to teach yourself.
If you want to get a lower paying and boring job programming in C/C++ for 
whatever reason and have a piece of paper that says you can have that job, I 
recommend wasting 4-6 months taking a course in your spare time to learn 
C/C++. If you want to be top of your game and learn C/C++ without wasting 
time on topics that take you a minute to understand, get a good book, 
practice the topics you have learned at your own pace, get numorous code 
examples for things you may want to do (sockets, GUI, OpenGL, ncurses, 
threading, kernel interfacing) from the glorious and infinite internet and 
emulate good programming style (using const qualifiers in C++, using 
#defines in C, etc.). Also be prepared to teach yourself because you may not 
always be prepared for a job you may find yourself with; learn how to easily 
learn and use external libraries.

The best programmers will teach themselves. A statement that may be on the 
borderline of opinion to fact by constant example. After all the first 
programmer, in fact, taught herself.
-Rian Hunter

_
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Re: portupgrade -arR

[Drew Tomlinson]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jan Grant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 2:37 AM


> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, William O'Higgins wrote:
>
> > Quite foolishly, I ran this command without thinking it through:
> >
> > portupgrade -arR
> >
> > It's been running for 15 hours or so now, and I'm wondering how much
> > longer it is likely to take?  I realize that "that depends" 
>
> Well, "that depends"; many ports can be upgraded quickly. However
> compilation of C++ is markedly slower than compilation of C, so
whenever
> you see things like KDE or Qt meeding an upgrade, expect it to take a
> while.
>
> If you use "portversion -v | grep -v =" then you'll see the list of
> ports which remain that need updating. (You need to run portsdb after
a
> cvsup for the output of this, and portupgrade's operation, to be
> accurate.)

Or you can use the (IMHO) simpler 'portversion -vL=' to get the same
information.

Cheers,

Drew

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Re: cdbakeoven doesn't see atapi burner

[Bjarne Wichmann Petersen]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 17:13, Charles Howse wrote:

> > Try reading 'man atapicam'. It tells you what needs to be done.
> Actually, I read the Handbook section on CD's, added device atapicam to my
> kernel config file, rebuilt the kernel.
> Now my burner is detected in scanbus.

Hmm... interesting. I've done everything described in man/handbook. The drives 
shows up (correctly) in dmesg and with camcontrol. So *why* will cdbakeoven 
not detect the drives?

> > > Could anyone point me to some documentation for cdbakeoven, or help me
> > > get started?
> I did find *some* documentation.
> In cdbakeoven, Help, About, click the link, browse the FAQ (very minimal)
> and documentation.
> Hope this helps!

Only as much as I now know it *ought* to work... I just don't know why it 
doesn't... 

Bjarne

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lnc0 problems on vmware

[RJ45]

I Am using FreeBSD 4.9  and it works very nice with vmware.
my guest host is windowsXP and I Am running FreeBSD from vmware
inside windows XP.

I have these errors in the logs

lnc0: Missed Packet -- no receive buffer lnc0

what does it mean ?
I Tried to search on the archives but no useful threads for my problem.
This happens when the system is on high CPU load.
thank you

Rick


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Re: converting real media audio

[Dan Pelleg]

Joan Picanyol i Puig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> [please honour, Mail-Followup-To:, not subscribed]
>
> * Dan Pelleg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [20031112 15:12]:
>> Joan Picanyol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> > [please honour Mail-Followup-To:, not subscribed]
>> > I've found two speeches in Real Audio format I'd like to burn on a CD.
>> > I'm able to reproduce them fine with linux-reaplayer, but sox doesn't
>> > understand the format. What's the one liner to dump what is sounding on
>> > my speakers to a file sox can convert (which device shoud I cat?)? Is
>> > there some utility to convert from .rm files to .wav?
>> Run realplayer under linux-vsound (in the ports).
> Thanks for the tip, however it doesn't quite work:
>
> (16:24:25 <~>) 0 $ vsound -f appel.wav
> /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay /home/pub/25/Audio/appel\[1\].rm 
> Missing file ./vsound61809.au.
> This means that the libvsound wrapper did not work correctlty. A 
> possible reason is that the program you are trying to run is 
> setuid. In this case you will need to run vsound as root.
> (16:24:51 <~>) 0 $ sudo vsound -f appel.wav
> /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay /home/pub/25/Audio/appel\[1\].rm 
> Missing file ./vsound62032.au.
> This means that the libvsound wrapper did not work correctlty. A 
> possible reason is that the program you are trying to run is 
> setuid. In this case you will need to run vsound as root.
> (16:27:22 <~>) 0 $ ls -l /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay
> -r-xr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  1247004 Nov  5 17:16
> /usr/local/lib/RealPlayer8/realplay
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>

My notes (for streaming media) have the -d and -s switches. My guess is
what you actually need is just the -d.


-- 

  Dan Pelleg
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Re: cdbakeoven doesn't see atapi burner

[Charles Howse]

On Wednesday 12 November 2003 08:22 am, Bjarne Wichmann Petersen wrote:

> Try reading 'man atapicam'. It tells you what needs to be done.

Actually, I read the Handbook section on CD's, added device atapicam to my 
kernel config file, rebuilt the kernel.
Now my burner is detected in scanbus.
Still having lots of issues to sort out.

I have created a new data cd successfully by reading an iso image on another 
drive that I created in Windows with Easy CD Creator, but I can't mount that 
cd on FBSD or Windows.

camcontrol devlist shows my burner, but mount -t cd9660 /dev/cd0c /cdrom fails 
with cd9660: /dev/cd0c: Invalid argument
mount /cdrom also fails with cd9660: /dev/acd0c: Input/output error

I have just tried my old, original, 100% legal copy of Windows 95.
It mounts like a charm with either mount /cdrom or mount -t cd9660 /dev/cd0c /
cdrom.  The latter is much faster, though.

So I guess that means the cd's I'm making are somehow bad, or unuseable, or 
the .iso files I'm reading are incompatible with FBSD or cdbakeoven.

The cd's are Maxell CD-RW 650MB, which, of course, I erased with cdbakeoven 
before burning.

I'm copying my Windows 95 cd now, funny, my burner is 52x, but it's only 
burning at 4x, even though I've got the slider all the way to maximum.  I 
guess I can live with that.

OK, I successfully copied the Win95 cd, and can mount it.
That eliminates the cd's, and probably says the .iso images I created with 
Easy CD Creator are *no good* for FBSD or cdbakeoven.
I guess it *could* also be my settings in cdbakeoven, need to research that 
further.

I'm also unable to read/play any commercial audio cd's.  It's like they are 
blank.  This is a *big* issue for me.  I *have* to get this resolved.

>
> > Could anyone point me to some documentation for cdbakeoven, or help me
> > get started?

I did find *some* documentation.
In cdbakeoven, Help, About, click the link, browse the FAQ (very minimal) and 
documentation.

Hope this helps!

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