Re: need some advice on MTA
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2003-02-05 13:37:05 +0100:
> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:02:29PM +0100, Roman Neuhauser wrote:
> > I run four Postfixes (one of them with Courier-IMAP), and one Qmail
> > with vpopmail.
> >
> > Postfix is IMO easier to install and administer, but doesn't have a
> > point'n'click interface.
> >
> > It also looks like Postfix is a much faster moving target than
> > Qmail, e. g. the virtual address/mailbox support has been evolving
> > quite a lot, and the configuration changed in Postfix-2.
> >
> > I wouldn't recommend Courier; I don't know the SMTP part of the
> > pack, but the IMAP server is pretty admin-hostile in that it doesn't
> > log almost anything at all, so when you run into trouble, you're
> > left to guessing, and hacking the source.
>
> Courier-IMAP is not admin-hostile. You can enable debugging, and it
> will log a lot of information.
I had a PEBKAC case with Courier-IMAP, and had to add a few writes
to get anything useful in /var/log/messages. If the code isn't
there, turning a debugging switch on won't buy you much. :)
Note that this was one particular problem, and one particular piece
of code. It might be different in 95% of Courier FWIW, but that was
not my experience.
> The SMTP server and client part of courier is also nice, robust and
> friendly to other sites, and has many useful features (RBL checking,
> rejecting spam, flexible aliasing, SMTP authentication, SSL support)
> all out of the box.
I didn't say Courier didn't have all that. BTW, I use RBL checks,
virtual domains, static routes (non-MX-based relaying), and whatnot
with Postfix. All out of the box. :)
> And if you install the entire courier suite, you also get a POP
> server, webmail server and mailing list manager, and a webadmin CGI to
> configure it all easily.
Postfix has neither of that, as I said in my previous post ("doesn't
have a point'n'click interface"). It's "only" an MTA. I'm happy with
what it is, and how it does its job. That's all.
--
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Re: need some advice on MTA
On Wednesday 05 February 2003 14:37, Anand Buddhdev wrote: > On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:02:29PM +0100, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > > I run four Postfixes (one of them with Courier-IMAP), and one Qmail > > with vpopmail. > > > > Postfix is IMO easier to install and administer, but doesn't have a > > point'n'click interface. > > > > It also looks like Postfix is a much faster moving target than > > Qmail, e. g. the virtual address/mailbox support has been evolving > > quite a lot, and the configuration changed in Postfix-2. > > > > I wouldn't recommend Courier; I don't know the SMTP part of the > > pack, but the IMAP server is pretty admin-hostile in that it > > doesn't log almost anything at all, so when you run into trouble, > > you're left to guessing, and hacking the source. > > Courier-IMAP is not admin-hostile. You can enable debugging, and it > will log a lot of information. The SMTP server and client part of > courier is also nice, robust and friendly to other sites, and has many > useful features (RBL checking, rejecting spam, flexible aliasing, > SMTP authentication, SSL support) all out of the box. And if you > install the entire courier suite, you also get a POP server, webmail > server and mailing list manager, and a webadmin CGI to configure it all > easily. Courier's SMTP server takes its basic design from qmail, but has > gone far beyond qmail in features, and has made many improvements over > those parts of qmail that many people have long been criticising. Take > a look at it more closely before trashing it so trivially. Off topic: If you absolutely do not want to run Courier (or any part of it), you can get the same results with Exim as your MTA, solidpop3d as your POP3 server, UW IMAP (imap-uw in ports) as your IMAP server, and squirrelmail (requires IMAP server and PHP4 supported web server) as your web mail. This set of programs, IMHO, is the best for the job, but you will probably have more trouble configuring them than Courier. Personally I'd go for my set of programs, but they are seperate things that have to be configured to work properly together. As far as features and robustness goes, both solutions will give you exactly the same end result. As for things being admin-hostile. If you are used to something like Windows NT MDaemon or Microsoft Exchange Server, there is simply nothing on the UNIX platform that will ever make you happy, unless you are willing to make a paradigm shift, and to start reading the manuals. I do not know of any good software which can be configured by pointing and clicking. UNIX mail servers have power and versatility, the Windows servers have user interfaces that an infant can master. These two separate paradigms can not be combined. In the case of a system with an easy GUI interface, all you can do with it is what the GUI developer thought of. In the case of UNIX servers, in most cases, you can do what ever you can code in C or perl with it. Will -- Willie Viljoen Freelance IT Consultant 214 Paul Kruger Avenue, Universitas Bloemfontein 9321 South Africa +27 51 522 15 60 +27 51 522 44 36 (after hours) +27 82 404 03 27 (mobile) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: need some advice on MTA
On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 01:02:29PM +0100, Roman Neuhauser wrote: > I run four Postfixes (one of them with Courier-IMAP), and one Qmail > with vpopmail. > > Postfix is IMO easier to install and administer, but doesn't have a > point'n'click interface. > > It also looks like Postfix is a much faster moving target than > Qmail, e. g. the virtual address/mailbox support has been evolving > quite a lot, and the configuration changed in Postfix-2. > > I wouldn't recommend Courier; I don't know the SMTP part of the > pack, but the IMAP server is pretty admin-hostile in that it doesn't > log almost anything at all, so when you run into trouble, you're > left to guessing, and hacking the source. Courier-IMAP is not admin-hostile. You can enable debugging, and it will log a lot of information. The SMTP server and client part of courier is also nice, robust and friendly to other sites, and has many useful features (RBL checking, rejecting spam, flexible aliasing, SMTP authentication, SSL support) all out of the box. And if you install the entire courier suite, you also get a POP server, webmail server and mailing list manager, and a webadmin CGI to configure it all easily. Courier's SMTP server takes its basic design from qmail, but has gone far beyond qmail in features, and has made many improvements over those parts of qmail that many people have long been criticising. Take a look at it more closely before trashing it so trivially. -- Anand Buddhdev http://anand.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: need some advice on MTA
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2003-02-04 14:20:55 -0600: > I am looking for an alternative MTA to replace sendmail on my freebsd > 4.7-rel box. My question is i have searched google quite extensively and > found : > > Qmail > Courier > Postfix > > I would like some opinions as to which of the 3 above is better in > regards to security, authentication features, reliability, performance > etc... and i guess which would be recommended for providing ./Maildir/ > accounts to about 200-300 people VIA Courier IMAP. I run four Postfixes (one of them with Courier-IMAP), and one Qmail with vpopmail. Postfix is IMO easier to install and administer, but doesn't have a point'n'click interface. It also looks like Postfix is a much faster moving target than Qmail, e. g. the virtual address/mailbox support has been evolving quite a lot, and the configuration changed in Postfix-2. I wouldn't recommend Courier; I don't know the SMTP part of the pack, but the IMAP server is pretty admin-hostile in that it doesn't log almost anything at all, so when you run into trouble, you're left to guessing, and hacking the source. -- If you cc me or remove the list(s) completely I'll most likely ignore your message.see http://www.eyrie.org./~eagle/faqs/questions.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
RE: need some advice on MTA
Regarding the qmail-ldap port assuming I was building a box from scratch, could this port be installed on its own, or is it a 'patch' to an existing (presumably working) qmail installation? The description for this port isn't terribly clear in this regard. Thanks -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Frank Tegtmeyer Sent: Wednesday, 5 February 2003 9:19 PM To: sweetleaf Cc: freebsd-questions Subject: Re: need some advice on MTA sweetleaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Thanks again, Sir. The only other question would be: Is there a good > admin utility for postfix such as the one for qmail. I cannot answer this - I didn't use Postfix extensively. > usersmaybe add the user to a databas and the server finds it > there. That's right. Relational databases or LDAP are common for such tasks. Vpopmail can use both and there is also a specialized LDAP-patch for qmail that provides additional features besides central account management. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: need some advice on MTA
sweetleaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Thanks again, Sir. The only other question would be: Is there a good > admin utility for postfix such as the one for qmail. I cannot answer this - I didn't use Postfix extensively. > usersmaybe add the user to a databas and the server finds it > there. That's right. Relational databases or LDAP are common for such tasks. Vpopmail can use both and there is also a specialized LDAP-patch for qmail that provides additional features besides central account management. Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: need some advice on MTA
sweetleaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hmm, so qmail does not handle large attachments well? I didn't say that. qmail does send a copy of the mail to every receiver while postfix does a (limited) kind of grouping receivers based on the destination domain. This may perform better when a) you or the receiver has bad connectivity b) attachments are large (we had typically 30MB or more) c) the sender is so kind to address several people at the receiving domain (sending to ten people instead one) In this scenario qmail sends 300MB (for ten people) while postfix *may* reduce this to 30MB one time by grouping the receivers. This is a rare situation for ISPs but more common at some type of businesses. In any case sending such large attachments is stupid (wrong service selection) and addressing several people is additionally stupid. But that's life - it's not easy to change peoples behaviour. Regards, Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: need some advice on MTA
sweetleaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > etc... and i guess which would be recommended for providing > ./Maildir/ accounts to about 200-300 people VIA Courier IMAP. This depends on your usage pattern. If large attachments are to be handled every day and if they are sent to multiple receivers at the same destination (-domain) then Postfix may be the better choice than qmail. If that is not the case, qmail is simpler to administer (in my eyes). Additionally qmail has native Maildir support. Regards, Frank To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Re: need some advice on MTA
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 02:20:55PM -0600, sweetleaf wrote: > I am looking for an alternative MTA to replace sendmail on my freebsd > 4.7-rel box. My question is i have searched google quite extensively and > found : > > Qmail > Courier > Postfix > > I would like some opinions as to which of the 3 above is better in > regards to security, authentication features, reliability, performance > etc... and i guess which would be recommended for providing ./Maildir/ > accounts to about 200-300 people VIA Courier IMAP. I installed Exim recently in favour of Sendmail. I found it very easy to setup. Not necessarily an answer to your question, but one more MTA to look at. www.exim.org Nathan -- GPG Public Key ID: 0x4250A04C gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 4250A04C http://63.105.21.156/gpg_nkinkade_4250A04C.asc msg17964/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
