Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:16:52AM +, RW wrote: On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:02:45 -0700 Chad Perrin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 10:32:16PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Okay, I'm confused. Are we talking about using md(4) to create a virtual disk in RAM, then putting your swap there? If so . . . why? Do you just lack understanding of what swap is? I think it was intended as a joke. I certainly hope so. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Patrick J. LoPresti: Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 12:11:29AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tore Lund Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:49 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? I do wish people would not be happy about missing users. Being rid of all the morons means that we are also rid of proper attention from companies like Adobe and Nvidia. Some of us see that as a drawback. No, this isn't true at all for the hardware vendors like Nvidia. When a hardware vendor contemplates entering a market like FreeBSD they have 3 major concerns. First, is market size. However, second is ease of porting to the OS, and last is the liklihood of having to supply technical support. If you have a large market but everyone in the market is a moron and will be calling you for tech support, your going to make less money than a smaller market where everyone is an expert and nobody is calling you for tech support. What is double plus good is that there's experts floating around in the small market who will do your support for you, including writing your drivers, all you have to do is supply a minimal set of programming interface docs. This is a far cry from Windows where you have to write and debug the driver and pay Microsoft a lot of money to get it certified. I think you're overlooking a major drawback of having less mindshare, though. As more hardware vendors finally start to see the light, and release open source drivers, they have a tendency to follow the licensing model Linux uses because that's the open source OS with which they're familiar. That means that, a dismaying percentage of the time, we don't get BSD-licensed (or similarly permissively licensed) drivers. I, for one, am not pleased with this state of affairs. As for attention from Adobe, doesen't it bother you to use a free OS merely as a platform for running commercial software? How about ditching the commercial software completely and using free open source tools on the free OS? That's what FreeBSD is all about, honey. In theory, I'm with you. In practice, I have the Linux Flash player plugin and Neverwinter Nights installed on this laptop (both from FreeBSD ports) -- neither of which is open source. Believe me when I say I wish they were both released under a copyfree [1] license. [1]: http://www.copyfree.org/ -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] print substr(Just another Perl hacker, 0, -2); ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 10:32:16PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Okay, I'm confused. Are we talking about using md(4) to create a virtual disk in RAM, then putting your swap there? If so . . . why? Do you just lack understanding of what swap is? Say you have 100 MB of RAM and 50 MB of swap on disk. When your system uses more than 100 MB of memory, it fills up RAM, and the extra spills over into swap. Now, let's say your 50 MB of swap is in md(4). This means you have 50 MB of free RAM and 50 MB of swap in RAM. When your system uses up more than 50 MB of memory, the extra spills over into the md(4) swap. When your system uses more than 100 MB of memory, though, as in the first example, well . . . Then it has nowhere to go. Your swap is already used up, because your free RAM was used up 50 MB faster (since there was 50 MB less free RAM). By analogy: You have 100 paper cups. You want to use paper cups for a party you're having. You want to make sure that you have extra cups in case more people show up than you expect. You prefer to use paper cups as much as possible, because they can just be thrown away when they're done, and you don't have to waste time later doing dishes like you would for actual glasses. You can decide to keep 50 clean glasses in your kitchen, ready to be used in case you have more than 100 guests. You can also decide to only make 50 paper cups available, and keep 50 in reserve. You decide you don't need any glasses at all, because you've very cleverly kept 50 paper cups in reserve. You then pack up your glasses in a box and store it in the attic where you won't have to worry about how slow they are to wash when they've been used. Now . . . what do you do when you find out you have 120 guests to your party? -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] McCloctnick the Lucid: The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Thursday 14 February 2008 00:18:39 Chad Perrin wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 10:39:30AM -0600, Chris wrote: On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:12:37 -0800 Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Wojciech Puchar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. Ah, something to strive for! :-) Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? Oh my! Ted my man! I'm sure that was a /Sarcasm remark! As you do know, many of us happy BSD'ers are well versed in Linux-eeze and actually live very happily in both worlds. I would hate to think I may fall into that category! Oh wait! I do! Doh!!! I don't believe he said that morons were the *only* people attracted to Linux. Something can be a lightning rod and still serve as a place to tie off your clothesline (to stretch a metaphor) every now and then. IMHO, that stretched methaphor is not only funny but also very true. Then again, someone's FreeBSD lightning rod is probably also someone else's clothesline too. They're just both a smaller part of the overall whole of lightning-strikers and cloth-washers. Dan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 10:39:30AM -0600, Chris wrote: On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:12:37 -0800 Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Wojciech Puchar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. Ah, something to strive for! :-) Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? Oh my! Ted my man! I'm sure that was a /Sarcasm remark! As you do know, many of us happy BSD'ers are well versed in Linux-eeze and actually live very happily in both worlds. I would hate to think I may fall into that category! Oh wait! I do! Doh!!! I don't believe he said that morons were the *only* people attracted to Linux. Something can be a lightning rod and still serve as a place to tie off your clothesline (to stretch a metaphor) every now and then. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Marvin Minsky: It's just incredible that a trillion-synapse computer could actually spend Saturday afternoon watching a football game. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:02:45 -0700 Chad Perrin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 10:32:16PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Okay, I'm confused. Are we talking about using md(4) to create a virtual disk in RAM, then putting your swap there? If so . . . why? Do you just lack understanding of what swap is? I think it was intended as a joke. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tore Lund Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:49 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? I do wish people would not be happy about missing users. Being rid of all the morons means that we are also rid of proper attention from companies like Adobe and Nvidia. Some of us see that as a drawback. No, this isn't true at all for the hardware vendors like Nvidia. When a hardware vendor contemplates entering a market like FreeBSD they have 3 major concerns. First, is market size. However, second is ease of porting to the OS, and last is the liklihood of having to supply technical support. If you have a large market but everyone in the market is a moron and will be calling you for tech support, your going to make less money than a smaller market where everyone is an expert and nobody is calling you for tech support. What is double plus good is that there's experts floating around in the small market who will do your support for you, including writing your drivers, all you have to do is supply a minimal set of programming interface docs. This is a far cry from Windows where you have to write and debug the driver and pay Microsoft a lot of money to get it certified. As for attention from Adobe, doesen't it bother you to use a free OS merely as a platform for running commercial software? How about ditching the commercial software completely and using free open source tools on the free OS? That's what FreeBSD is all about, honey. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:12:37 -0800 Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Wojciech Puchar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. Ah, something to strive for! :-) Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? Oh my! Ted my man! I'm sure that was a /Sarcasm remark! As you do know, many of us happy BSD'ers are well versed in Linux-eeze and actually live very happily in both worlds. I would hate to think I may fall into that category! Oh wait! I do! Doh!!! -- Best regards, Chris Luke Skywalker: I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Ah, something to strive for! :-) Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? different words of saying the same - let everyone use what he/she think is OK :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? Ted __ And I pray to stay that way ;-) . me too. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
If you have a large market but everyone in the market is a moron and will be calling you for tech support, your going to make less money than a smaller market where everyone is an expert and nobody is calling you for tech support. What is double plus good is that there's experts floating around in the small market who will do your support for you, including writing your drivers, all you have to do is supply a minimal set of programming interface docs. This is a far cry from Windows where you have to write and debug the driver and pay Microsoft a lot of money to get it certified. As for attention from Adobe, doesen't it bother you to use a free OS merely as a platform for running commercial software? How about ditching the commercial software completely and using free open source tools on the free OS? That's what FreeBSD is all about, honey. can't be told clearer :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:53 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD Swapping systems may have performed better when thrashing started because they had lots of controls to say who (or what type of workload) got screwed when memory was scarce. :-) I think it was more something of the times - back then, it was Look Ma, the elephant can dance! Today, it's more along the lines of which elephant dances the best? Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? I do wish people would not be happy about missing users. Being rid of all the morons means that we are also rid of proper attention from companies like Adobe and Nvidia. Some of us see that as a drawback. -- Tore ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Here's an idea for FreeBSD that would be practical. Since having several partitions on the same disk is standard for FreeBSD and most Unixes, instead of dealing with running out of space on a partition, when you have gigs available on another, why not allow one partition to create an overflow file on another partition, or perhaps a dedicated amount of the swap partition if it's on the same disk, to keep from running out of space? It'd probably have to be limited to one disk, but that wouldn't hinder things too much. Dealing with unmounted filesystems would be annoying but probably doable without too much risk of problems(could even use the swap partition, and on say /usr just have a file for swap?). The most obvious case of how this could be good would be the root partition when you're updating the system, especially with debug symbols or perhaps multiple kernels(say a generic debug, optimized debug, generic, and optimized?). The best reason for doing something like this, you can keep the partitions for disk optimization and still have the ease of use of a single partition like OS X, Ubuntu, or PCBSD. Maybe this would be good for FreeBSD 8 or 9? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 03:51:18PM -0600, Joshua Isom wrote: Here's an idea for FreeBSD that would be practical. Since having several partitions on the same disk is standard for FreeBSD and most Unixes, instead of dealing with running out of space on a partition, when you have gigs available on another, why not allow one partition to create an overflow file on another partition, or perhaps a dedicated You can do this alrady. Just move some directory tree in to the large space and create a synlink. I do it often. jerry amount of the swap partition if it's on the same disk, to keep from running out of space? It'd probably have to be limited to one disk, but that wouldn't hinder things too much. Dealing with unmounted filesystems would be annoying but probably doable without too much risk of problems(could even use the swap partition, and on say /usr just have a file for swap?). The most obvious case of how this could be good would be the root partition when you're updating the system, especially with debug symbols or perhaps multiple kernels(say a generic debug, optimized debug, generic, and optimized?). The best reason for doing something like this, you can keep the partitions for disk optimization and still have the ease of use of a single partition like OS X, Ubuntu, or PCBSD. Maybe this would be good for FreeBSD 8 or 9? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Feb 9, 2008, at 4:01 PM, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 03:51:18PM -0600, Joshua Isom wrote: Here's an idea for FreeBSD that would be practical. Since having several partitions on the same disk is standard for FreeBSD and most Unixes, instead of dealing with running out of space on a partition, when you have gigs available on another, why not allow one partition to create an overflow file on another partition, or perhaps a dedicated You can do this alrady. Just move some directory tree in to the large space and create a synlink. I do it often. jerry My idea would eliminate that work around and make it automatic. Who actually waits to constantly look at their disk usage and try and figure out if they have enough space left on their 512 meg partition when they have 200 gigs free on another? I think most people find out they're low on space when they run out trying to do something on that partition. amount of the swap partition if it's on the same disk, to keep from running out of space? It'd probably have to be limited to one disk, but that wouldn't hinder things too much. Dealing with unmounted filesystems would be annoying but probably doable without too much risk of problems(could even use the swap partition, and on say /usr just have a file for swap?). The most obvious case of how this could be good would be the root partition when you're updating the system, especially with debug symbols or perhaps multiple kernels(say a generic debug, optimized debug, generic, and optimized?). The best reason for doing something like this, you can keep the partitions for disk optimization and still have the ease of use of a single partition like OS X, Ubuntu, or PCBSD. Maybe this would be good for FreeBSD 8 or 9? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On 09/02/2008, Joshua Isom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 9, 2008, at 4:01 PM, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Sat, Feb 09, 2008 at 03:51:18PM -0600, Joshua Isom wrote: Here's an idea for FreeBSD that would be practical. Since having several partitions on the same disk is standard for FreeBSD and most Unixes, instead of dealing with running out of space on a partition, when you have gigs available on another, why not allow one partition to create an overflow file on another partition, or perhaps a dedicated You can do this alrady. Just move some directory tree in to the large space and create a synlink. My idea would eliminate that work around and make it automatic. Who actually waits to constantly look at their disk usage and try and figure out if they have enough space left on their 512 meg partition when they have 200 gigs free on another? I certainly do not want some brain-dead algorithm stuffing up every slice on my system because some other brain-dead algorithm decided to fill /tmp -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Am Freitag, 8. Februar 2008 17:54:03 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well, actually, these are file backed swap devices. You can do both file and memory backed devices. this allows you to have a swap file on the hard disk and mount it. As I already wrote in another part of this thread: please explain to me why it should be faster to have a file backed md set up as swap than a dedicated swap partition (because there's at least two more levels of indirection involved). I can clearly see the need for file backed swap in special cases (for example, where you need RAM desperately, for example for a compile, but cannot add another partition to a system), but no matter what, it will never be faster than a swap partition. And that was what the original poster of this sub-thread suggested (and as such, I took it that he was referring to memory-backed mds, because file-backed mds are never faster than raw access to a hard-disk). So, I still stand by my first assessment: the idea to use an md as swap is stupid, at least from a performance standpoint. -- Heiko Wundram Product Application Development ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
--- Jason C. Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heiko Wundram (Beenic) wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. Mmm, yes. That is quite a pickle. But a chicken or an egg would still be inferior to an md backed swap. :) Regards, Jason ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually, you can have file backed swap files. I have done it. However, with more than one swap file, or a swap file and a swap partition on the same disk, there ends up being quite a bit of thrashing. This is due apparently to some interaction between having two swaps on the same disk but that is jut a guess, i dont know what the cause is. The idea behind having swap files is that swap space can more easily be expanded and added on the fly. If your initial swap partition was not big enough it is more easy to more swap in another file. As well, a swap file that can grow and shrink, also would allow you to avoid having a lot of disk space consumed by unused swap, so he disk space is allocated when needed, or allow more space to easily be added if you find out you do not have enough. With applications crashing because of swap partition running out, this would be an important feature, since more swap space can be allocated in a file which is easier to do than a partition. Swap is still important on systems with small amounts of RAM, FreeBSD should be able to run on some older hardware too and should not be like Windows where you have to have 2 GHZ 2 GB of ram to run it. dynamic swap space makes it more versatile which is a good thing Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:09:13PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: Heiko Wundram (Beenic) wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. Mmm, yes. That is quite a pickle. But a chicken or an egg would still be inferior to an md backed swap. :) Huh? md backed swap is just using memory which, if you hadn't wasted it by making it md, it might obviate the need for swap at all - anyway it would not be a faster system if the md had to be swapped out. It just adds another layer of interferrence. jerry Regards, Jason ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
--- Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 04:09:13PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: Heiko Wundram (Beenic) wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. Mmm, yes. That is quite a pickle. But a chicken or an egg would still be inferior to an md backed swap. :) Huh? md backed swap is just using memory which, if you hadn't wasted it by making it md, it might obviate the need for swap at all - anyway it would not be a faster system if the md had to be swapped out. It just adds another layer of interferrence. jerry Regards, Jason ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, actually, these are file backed swap devices. You can do both file and memory backed devices. this allows you to have a swap file on the hard disk and mount it. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Wojciech Puchar wrote: It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. I am only responding to two narrow points so I am only responding to the list. I apologize in advance if this is a protocol error. Linux got (and gets?) a boost from law suit over the name unix that was in progress around the advent of the BSDs. Linux seems to, at least initially, done a better job of being easier to install. Perhaps in the past even we FreeBSD-ers were willing to cede the desktop to other O/S-s. As a result Linux is probably more competitive with Windows than FreeBSD is as a desktop. I think that has nothing to do with the technical merits of this (or any) discussion. The other point is when FreeBSD starts swapping to any degree, thrashing is not far behind. There is no cure for not having enough memory. Email is not generally an interactive endeavor and can probably tolerate much swapping than running KDE. Actually running KDE on a 128MB system I know this for a absolute fact :) Swapping systems may have performed better when thrashing started because they had lots of controls to say who (or what type of workload) got screwed when memory was scarce. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 09:16:52AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jason C. Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heiko Wundram (Beenic) wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. Mmm, yes. That is quite a pickle. But a chicken or an egg would still be inferior to an md backed swap. :) Regards, Jason ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually, you can have file backed swap files. I have done it. However, with more than one swap file, or a swap file and a swap partition on the same disk, there ends up being quite a bit of thrashing. This is due apparently to some interaction between having two swaps on the same disk but that is jut a guess, i dont know what the cause is. The idea behind having swap files is that swap space can more easily be expanded and added on the fly. If your initial swap partition was not big enough it is more easy to more swap in another file. As well, a swap file that can grow and shrink, also would allow you to avoid having a lot of disk space consumed by unused swap, so he disk space is allocated when needed, or allow more space to easily be added if you find out you do not have enough. With applications crashing because of swap partition running out, this would be an important feature, since more swap space can be allocated in a file which is easier to do than a partition. Swap is still important on systems with small amounts of RAM, FreeBSD should be able to run on some older hardware too and should not be like Windows where you have to have 2 GHZ 2 GB of ram to run it. dynamic swap space makes it more versatile which is a good thing The question here is not whether to have swap, but to have md as swap. It seems like that would cause more problems with speed and probably thrashing that just plain swap partitions on disk. Now, the abiliity to use a file as additional swap can be important because it will allow you to add some swap in a pinch without reconfiguring your disk or adding disk - which a larger or additional swap partition would require. But, a swap file is not something you want to run with as a matter of course. You want a swap partition. Writing and reading a swap partition is optimized for that in a way that writing to a file system cannot easily be optimized. At least that's what my mom told me. jerry Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Oh good heavens. How do you spell joke in geekish? I spell it md backed swap. Regards, Jason ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
-Original Message- From: Wojciech Puchar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. Ah, something to strive for! :-) Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: Wojciech Puchar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. Ah, something to strive for! :-) Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? Ted __ And I pray to stay that way ;-) . Cheers, Predrag I do not know if it is because of the writers strike in Hollywood or because of the couple recent posts by Ted but I have more laugh reading [EMAIL PROTECTED] than watching the Jay Leno show. _ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: Wojciech Puchar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:32 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. Ah, something to strive for! :-) Reason # 1 to be happy with Linux: It attracts all the morons who would otherwise fuck up FreeBSD? Ted And I will pray to stay that way ;-) Predrag P. S. I do not know if it because of the writers strike in Hollywood or because of the last couple posts sent by Ted but I definitely have more laugh reading massages at freebsd.org than watching the Jay Leno show. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Even if you HAD to use files, i can't imagine that writing a script that groks the output of the proper sysctl and creates a new swap file on demand would be that hard. for those usable to write simple script - there is /usr/ports/sysutils/swapd still - in XXI century disk sizes, even some overcommiting swap space doesn't make a problem. if program needs 10 or more times swap than memory, the program should be changed to use less memory hungry algorithm, or be tunable (like sort with -S) swap is NOT memory replacement ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. what a sense to allocate memory (as md is memory of disk backed) to swap. simply use that memory ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Or it's backed by a file (-t vnode, which is implicated by -f). I have used files for swap, just to see weather it works, others have done it because they had to. it works, just really slow. once i did this, and since then i always make big swap partitions, which are still few percent of disk space available, and i don't have any problems now ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On 2008-02-06 09:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear FreeBSD Developers, I have a few suggestions for how FreeBSD can be improved in an upcoming release. The third idea is for more of a move to Linux and, SUS , and POSIX source compatability in regards to additional features supported by these systems. I still in 6.0 run into some calls that are not supported by FreeBSD that is a real headache. I ran into this with posix_memalign in some software. Although posix_memalign is more modern, If it would be trivial to add support for linux specific valloc and memalign why not do so as well, to maintain compatability with older Linux software. It is better to just make FreeBSD be as compatable and for stuff to compile out of box, as possible than to haggle over conditional ifdefs and changing lines of code in software. FWIW, posix_memalign() *is* supported by the new malloc() implementation in FreeBSD 7.X. The current RELENG_7 branch has it, so it has already found its way towards a release. If there are other library functions you would like to see implemented in FreeBSD too, then it would be nice to post a summary of your findings to freebsd-hackers or freebsd-arch :) - Giorgos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:28:57 +0100 (CET)
Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
still - in XXI century disk sizes, even some overcommiting swap space
doesn't make a problem.
if program needs 10 or more times swap than memory, the program should be
changed to use less memory hungry algorithm, or be tunable (like sort with
-S)
swap is NOT memory replacement
absolutely...and if your program needs so much memory, RAM will probably help a
lot more than slow swap. RAM is quite cheap nowadays too.
B
_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome
Life is just what happens to you,
While your busy making other plans...
John Lennon
I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet.
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been
Warned.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Heiko Wundram (Beenic) wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. Mmm, yes. That is quite a pickle. But a chicken or an egg would still be inferior to an md backed swap. :) Regards, Jason ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. don't forget that linux changed from being good unix OS to be windows competitor. and it's competing well. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Some ideas for FreeBSD
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:23 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Some ideas for FreeBSD Dear FreeBSD Developers, I have a few suggestions for how FreeBSD can be improved in an upcoming release. My first is to allow for dynamically resizeable swap file of some sort, and via kqueue, a notification facility to notify a program when swap is about to run out, when a program has made a memory request which requires more swap space than is avialable, and when swap space is run out. There should also be commands that can shrink the swap files, and see how much is being used in the swap files. This allows for the user to write customised programs that can manage and allocate new swap space as needed. The OS can come with a standard version of such a program that allows a user to specify a maximum swap file size (including infinite). At my job we run lots of FreeBSD servers doing various things. Very, very few of them ever have more than a token amount in swap. For example here's top from our busiest mailserver: Mem: 830M Active, 660M Inact, 1121M Wired, 99M Cache, 214M Buf, 7896K Free Swap: 2048M Total, 14M Used, 2034M Free I can spare 2GB off a 300GB array to allocate to swap, and if the OS wants to throw 14MB into the 2GB file for some reason or other, that's fine with me. The third idea is for more of a move to Linux and, SUS , and POSIX source compatability in regards to additional features supported by these systems. I still in 6.0 run into some calls that are not supported by FreeBSD that is a real headache. I ran into this with posix_memalign in some software. Although posix_memalign is more modern, If it would be trivial to add support for linux specific valloc and memalign why not do so as well, to maintain compatability with older Linux software. It is better to just make FreeBSD be as compatable and for stuff to compile out of box, as possible than to haggle over conditional ifdefs and changing lines of code in software. I disagree - the users who don't understand such things shouldn't be rolling their own stuff, they should be using the ports system. And the people who do understand such stuff are the ones creating the ports. It is one thing to add support for a POSIX call into FreeBSD. That's fine. It's quite another to break a header or supply hacky 32-bit-only code in a library or some such just because Linux does the same brain-dead stuff and the Linux maintainers are too stubborn or stupid to fix Linux. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 09:23:28AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear FreeBSD Developers, I have a few suggestions for how FreeBSD can be improved in an upcoming release. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. jerry My first is to allow for dynamically resizeable swap file of some sort, and via kqueue, a notification facility to notify a program when swap is about to run out, when a program has made a memory request which requires more swap space than is avialable, and when swap space is run out. There should also be commands that can shrink the swap files, and see how much is being used in the swap files. This allows for the user to write customised programs that can manage and allocate new swap space as needed. The OS can come with a standard version of such a program that allows a user to specify a maximum swap file size (including infinite). I have also run into problems with making multiple space files on the same disk, in trying to address these swap exhaust problems, which caused thrashing. I believe this happened to when the swap partition and a swap file were on the same drive. Perhaps a way should be looked at to have multiple swap partititions and files on the same disk. That could also allow another way for additional swap space to be allocated, but I dont know if having the possibility of a large number of swap files is less efficient than a dynamically growing swap file. There should also be a feature to see how much of the swap file is used. I would much rather have dynamically allocated and deallocated swap space so I do not have large unused swap space eating up the disk, than having to predefine the swap size. Another idea I have is for setting the Do Not Fragment flag on a per connection option for UDP connections, and a per connection option to disable UDP checksum. The third idea is for more of a move to Linux and, SUS , and POSIX source compatability in regards to additional features supported by these systems. I still in 6.0 run into some calls that are not supported by FreeBSD that is a real headache. I ran into this with posix_memalign in some software. Although posix_memalign is more modern, If it would be trivial to add support for linux specific valloc and memalign why not do so as well, to maintain compatability with older Linux software. It is better to just make FreeBSD be as compatable and for stuff to compile out of box, as possible than to haggle over conditional ifdefs and changing lines of code in software. thank you for your reading these suggestions, it is greatly appreciated. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
In the last episode (Feb 06), [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The third idea is for more of a move to Linux and, SUS , and POSIX source compatability in regards to additional features supported by these systems. I still in 6.0 run into some calls that are not supported by FreeBSD that is a real headache. I ran into this with posix_memalign in some software. posix_memalign is in 7.0, actually. If there are any posix functions still missing, you can send a mail to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, or file a PR with the category set to standards. Patches welcome, too :) -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
My first is to allow for dynamically resizeable swap file of some sort, and via kqueue, a notification especially with todays drives - it's waste of time to implement this. nobody use swap FILES at all if swapping is needed unless he/she have no choice. swapping partition always will be faster. believe this happened to when the swap partition and a swap file were on the same drive. Perhaps a way should be looked at to have multiple swap partititions and why you simply won't make swap partition BIGGER on the first place. swapping to files will be always much slower. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 20:53:28 +0100 (CET)
Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My first is to allow for dynamically resizeable swap
file of some sort, and via kqueue, a notification
especially with todays drives - it's waste of time to implement this.
nobody use swap FILES at all if swapping is needed unless he/she have no
choice.
swapping partition always will be faster.
believe this happened to when the swap partition and a
swap file were on the same drive. Perhaps a way should
be looked at to have multiple swap partititions and
why you simply won't make swap partition BIGGER on the first place.
swapping to files will be always much slower.
Even if you HAD to use files, i can't imagine that writing a script that groks
the output of the proper sysctl and creates a new swap file on demand would be
that hard.
But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files?
B
_
{Beto|Norberto|Numard} Meijome
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
I speak for myself, not my employer. Contents may be hot. Slippery when wet.
Reading disclaimers makes you go blind. Writing them is worse. You have been
Warned.
___
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Regards, Jason Wells ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. -- Heiko Wundram Product Application Development ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Heiko Wundram (Beenic) wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. Or it's backed by a file (-t vnode, which is implicated by -f). I have used files for swap, just to see weather it works, others have done it because they had to. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some ideas for FreeBSD
Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 08:26:07 schrieb Dominic Fandrey: Heiko Wundram (Beenic) wrote: Am Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 07:32:16 schrieb Jason C. Wells: Norberto Meijome wrote: But I agree with Wojciech..do you really want to use swap files? One could mount an md filesystem and then use that as swap. That way you wouldn't need to use any disc space. As a plus, the performance would be way better than disc. Ahem, sorry, that's just plain stupid. Either the md system is backed up by RAM (in which case you don't need the swap anyway; why'd you want to access RAM by putting it in a swap on an md in RAM?), or it's backed up by swap, in which case you have a chicken and egg problem. Or it's backed by a file (-t vnode, which is implicated by -f). I have used files for swap, just to see weather it works, others have done it because they had to. True, sorry I forgot to mention that, but swapping to a file (based on a standard disk) won't get you any speed-ups relative to a (dedicated) swap-partition on a disk either, and that's (if I understood the original poster properly) what was suggested. I can understand the need for swap files (esp. in some environments where there's no easy way to just add physical memory or disk space for a task requiring huge amounts of it), but generally they offer no speed up at all to a dedicated swap (or memory in itself). -- Heiko Wundram Product Application Development ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
