On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 11:06:13PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Loren M. Lang
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:33 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
What if I
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2005 at 11:06:13PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
Actually, I was referring more to the idea of posting my responces to
other people questions. For instance, I recently posted several
responces for the thread about xhost and x authentication
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
Atkielski
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 3:20 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM This is a bit of twisting of the definition of site
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
My feeling is that if a site is extremely difficult to navigate
within - such as many news sites (ie cnn.com, etc.) that this
encourages deep linking. If the site owners don't want deep
linking then they can make their sites easier to navigate within.
I tend to
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
Atkielski
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 2:58 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
If they are using it as a component of their site, then I
think it does
On Mon, Feb 07, 2005 at 05:16:22PM +0100, Anthony Atkielski typed:
DG So it helps the copyright situation, but breaks the usefulness of
DG any archive.
The copyright situation is an unavoidable legal mandate, not an option.
You cannot defend against an infringement action by saying that
On Sat, Feb 05, 2005 at 11:43:32AM +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Mike Hauber writes:
snip
MH But that's different in that it was never released to a public forum
MH in the first place (explicitly or otherwise).
I'm not sure what you mean by public forum. A server accessible from
the
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Loren M. Lang
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:33 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
What if I wanted to put up a page of emails that I wrote and sent to,
say, the freebsd
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joshua Tinnin
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 2:20 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Cc: Anthony Atkielski
Subject: Re: favor
How do you suggest this list and all others like it deal
After having read this thread (yes, every line of it...) I'm really
quite interested in it. Unfortunately, an analogy dropped off perhaps
below Señor Atkielski's radar so I thought I would recreate it and
hear his (and of course everyone else's) opinion(s) on it.
Let us make an analogue betwixt
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM Clearly I think Anthony is saying in his posts to me that the
TM list managers should e-mail legal boilerplate to every subscriber
TM that they would then agree to, which would basically state that
TM the poster waives their copyrights if they post.
Approximately,
Anthony Atkielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050208 03:08]:
An alternative is to make the archive accessible only to current
members, and to purge posts from any member who leaves the list.
There's still a bit of risk in that but it eliminates most potential
objections.
That would sorta suck. I
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK Let us make an analogue betwixt our Valerie and one who submits to the
EK local newspaper. There is a roughly equal level of consent given in
EK both cases ...
Not so, on two points: (1) the newspaper is obviously available to
anyone (it's on the newsstands), and
David Gerard writes:
DG That would sorta suck. I know I write my questions and answers with
DG a view to them being searchable on the web maybe months or years
DG later, as I know how very grateful I am to those whose archived
DG words have helped me before.
Having to search an archive of e-mail
Archiving messages without telling subscribers
about it and requiring them to agree with it only invites trouble.
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
This is the page on which you sign up. You'll notice it says this in the about:
This is the mailing list for
EK Let us make an analogue betwixt our Valerie and one who submits to the
EK local newspaper. There is a roughly equal level of consent given in
EK both cases ...
Not so, on two points: (1) the newspaper is obviously available to
anyone (it's on the newsstands), and not only to a selected
Anthony Atkielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050208 03:16]:
David Gerard writes:
DG That would sorta suck. I know I write my questions and answers with
DG a view to them being searchable on the web maybe months or years
DG later, as I know how very grateful I am to those whose archived
DG words
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
EK freebsd-questions Archives.
EK
EK Since we are discussing implicit contracts, I would think that the
EK announcement that the collection of prior postings is linked to and
EK mentioned/described to be
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK Not always so, I know of many newspapers that go to subscribers only
EK (which local libraries are often among). This is especially true of
EK places without newstands.
It doesn't matter where they go. It only matters where they may be
expected to go by someone
David Gerard writes:
DG I go to a site called google.com and I enter error messages
DG verbatim, and often what comes back is a pile of mailing list posts.
DG They are far superior to nothing.
No doubt, but they are far inferior to a formal, well-organized support
system.
The lack of support
It doesn't matter where they go. It only matters where they may be
expected to go by someone writing to the newspaper.
right. And in this case, the person expects it to go to untold and
unnamed numbers of people who desire to see the message. Which is,
after all, exactly who's seeing it.
Anthony Atkielski ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050208 03:53]:
David Gerard writes:
DG I go to a site called google.com and I enter error messages
DG verbatim, and often what comes back is a pile of mailing list posts.
DG They are far superior to nothing.
No doubt, but they are far inferior to a
On Monday 07 February 2005 08:16 am, Anthony Atkielski
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
David Gerard writes:
DG That would sorta suck. I know I write my questions and answers
with DG a view to them being searchable on the web maybe months or
years DG later, as I know how very grateful I am to those
On Monday 07 February 2005 08:37 am, Anthony Atkielski
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
EK freebsd-questions Archives.
EK
EK Since we are discussing implicit contracts, I would think that
the EK
On Monday 07 February 2005 08:13 am, Anthony Atkielski
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK I don't see that a mailing list would need such a thing. The
EK submissions are given under the understanding that they shall be
EK publicly available both to subscribers and non
On Feb 7, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Eric Kjeldergaard wrote:
EK Let us make an analogue betwixt our Valerie and one who submits
to the
EK local newspaper. There is a roughly equal level of consent given
in
EK both cases ...
Not so, on two points: (1) the newspaper is obviously available to
anyone
On Feb 7, 2005, at 11:37 AM, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
EK freebsd-questions Archives.
EK
EK Since we are discussing implicit contracts, I would think that the
EK announcement that the collection of prior
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK Perhaps they take a greater risk, or perhaps things are simpler than
EK that. Perhaps, upon submitting something according to the simple
EK instructions with intent for it to be published, it gets published
EK as the general populous would expect...Often things are
David Gerard writes:
DG Actually, I most profitably apply it in my day job, which is administering
DG Solaris ;-) The purpose of vendors is to say to your boss that you have an
DG SLA; getting actual *support* out of anyone (with exceptions like NetApp)
DG is something best avoided IME.
Joshua Tinnin writes:
JT If you want real support, that costs money, and it doesn't matter
JT if you're talking about BSD, Linux, Windows, Solaris, etc.
Yes, and that's the paradox of open source. There's really no such
thing as a free lunch.
Even if you know your product inside and out and
Joshua Tinnin writes:
JT Since this is a volunteer organization, and it seems to me that you
JT have the most interest in it, and if you refuse to let this go, then
JT I have a suggestion. Hire a lawyer and write up a legally sound
JT plan, and then submit it. Until then, you're demanding things
On Monday 07 February 2005 11:17 am, Anthony Atkielski
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eric Kjeldergaard writes:
EK Perhaps they take a greater risk, or perhaps things are simpler
than EK that. Perhaps, upon submitting something according to the
simple EK instructions with intent for it to be
On Sun, 2005-02-06 at 15:38 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
many emails :)
Sorry if I offended anyone with my previous post re: freebsd-legal mail
list. I just feel that all being discussed after the first 20 or so was
3 or 4 individuals expressing their opinions to each other.
I _firmly_
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sandy
Rutherford
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:55 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:43:32 +0100,
Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
MH
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
Atkielski
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 5:56 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR This is not so clear. In a March 2004 decision
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Marella
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:35 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Am I the only one longing for a freebsd-legal mail list that I will not
subscribe
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR Hold on a second. Shared P-to-P directories certainly are indexed and
SR Finckenstein knew this.
Where are they indexed? I though P-to-P was a proprietary
protocol--which implies that public services like Google can't index it.
An index internal to the P-to-P system
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM This is a bit of twisting of the definition of site that is public
TM in my opinion.
The key distinction is between a venue to which access must be
explicitly requested and one that a person can visit without any
formalities. Asking people to register or subscribe in
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 01:59:40 -0800,
Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Robert Marella
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:35 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 6 Feb 2005, at 01:56, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR However, it is hard to see that as the prerequisite positive act
SR on the part of the web site owner. It is more a positive act on
SR Google's part.
Google doesn't find out
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:53:40 +0100,
Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR Hold on a second. Shared P-to-P directories certainly are indexed and
SR Finckenstein knew this.
Where are they indexed? I though P-to-P was a proprietary
protocol--which implies
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
Atkielski
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 3:08 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Except that it's not covered under fair use. It requires an explicit
license
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR I'm not sure what you mean here. If you are going to call http
SR public, then wouldn't any other open protocol also be public?
It's a network that people explicitly opt into. For example, if you put
something on a P-to-P network, it's reasonable to assume that it
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 15:00:56 +0100,
Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
SR Now #2, authorization:
SR
SR Finckenstein states:
SR
SR [26] No evidence was presented that the alleged infringers either
SR distributed or authorized the reproduction of sound recordings. They
SR merely
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM Many content creators take the attitude that any republishing
TM isn't covered under Fair Use.
Probably because that attitude is grossly congruent with the law and
jurisprudence.
TM That is understandable because the Fair Use doctorine is
TM deliberately broad ...
Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM Many content creators take the attitude that any republishing
TM isn't covered under Fair Use.
Probably because that attitude is grossly congruent with the law and
jurisprudence.
*** Snip ***
After following this thread, does this mean we're
On Sunday 06 February 2005 06:43 am, Anthony Atkielski
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The requirements of contract law are not waived simply because they are
inconvenient for one party. A contract, once concluded, remains binding
even if one party finds it troublesome to live up to its obligations
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
Atkielski
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:43 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
TM Well unless things have changed
TM very recently, you do not have to sign up to post
Joshua Tinnin writes:
JT What contract is implied here?
When a person subscribes to a list in exchange for receiving mail from
the list.
JT Is this what has happened here? Has the OP's ability to pay rent
JT been damaged by her archived post?
I don't know. It's easy to conceive of plausible
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
[everything snipped]
You've confused so many different and indepdent topics in your
posts--copyright infringement, access control, editorial control,
invasions of privacy, defamation, and the First Amendment, to name a
few--that I cannot respond to it coherently.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Norgaard
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Mike Hauber wrote:
Fact is, the cats out of the bag, and I have yet
On Feb 4 at 23:43, Mike Hauber opined:
On Friday 04 February 2005 10:39 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM If you post on a public forum, by implication you are giving that
TM forum permission to publish your copyrighted material.
The only way to get around this is
On Feb 5 at 08:35, Erik Norgaard wondered out loud:
Mike Hauber wrote:
Fact is, the cats out of the bag, and I have yet to meet a cat that likes
bags. :)
I went on radio some years ago, now I realize that the radiowaves are about
to hit alien civilizations. In order not to embaras my
Mike Hauber writes:
MH If I were to send you an email and a header (or signature) stated
MH that you were not privy to the contents of the email, then you
MH could be in serious trouble.
No, because you explicitly sent me the e-mail. If the confidential
contents were not your own, however, you
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM Yes you are. What do you think publishing is?
Publishing is the divulgation of the tangible expression of a work to a
party other than the author, as a general rule. Under copyright law in
most jurisdictions, any publication must be explicitly authorized by the
On Feb 5, 2005, at 3:01 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Norgaard
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Mike Hauber wrote:
Fact
On Fri, 2005-02-04 at 23:05 +0100, Erik Norgaard wrote:
When I search for my name, I'm in competition with a wrestler - really
anoying,
Deja Vu all over again. Who is Gorilla Monsoon and why is google filled
up with him when I search my name. ;)
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:43:32 +0100,
Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
MH But that's different in that it was never released to a public forum
MH in the first place (explicitly or otherwise).
I'm not sure what you mean by public forum. A server accessible from
the Internet
On Sat, 2005-02-05 at 05:52 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Mike Hauber writes:
snip much legal mumbo jumbo and speculation, err mostly the latter
The cat is being pushed back into the bag rather rapidly. The legal
profession was slow to apply the law to the Internet, but it is learning
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR This is not so clear. In a March 2004 decision regarding P-to-P music
SR sharing, Justice von Finckenstein of the Federal Court of Canada ruled
SR that:
SR
SRThe mere fact of placing a copy on a shared directory in a computer
SRwhere that copy can be accessed
Robert Marella writes:
RM Am I the only one longing for a freebsd-legal mail list that I will not
RM subscribe to?
Unfortunately, ignoring legal issues won't necessarily exempt you from
being affected by them, especially if you operate any kind of public
server (and the definition of that can be
On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 02:56:03 +0100,
Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Sandy Rutherford writes:
SR This is not so clear. In a March 2004 decision regarding P-to-P music
SR sharing, Justice von Finckenstein of the Federal Court of Canada ruled
SR that:
SR
SR The mere fact of
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi FreeBSD. When googling my name, your list comes up 13 times because of a
thread from 2003. Could you kindly remove and delete this thread from your
archives? I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Regrettably, there is no reliable or convenient way to remove old postings
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi FreeBSD. When googling my name, your list comes up 13 times because
of a
thread from 2003. Could you kindly remove and delete this thread from
your
archives? I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Regrettably, there is no reliable or convenient way
Chris Hodgins wrote:
IANAL but I think it would be interesting to know what the legal
implications are here. Could it be a legal requirement that you can
request that your data is removed?
Could it be a legal requirement that you can prove that you are actually
the original poster and as the
]
Subject: Re: favor
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi FreeBSD. When googling my name, your list comes up 13 times because
of a
thread from 2003. Could you kindly remove and delete this thread from
your
archives? I would really appreciate it.
Thanks
Erik Norgaard wrote:
Chris Hodgins wrote:
IANAL but I think it would be interesting to know what the legal
implications are here. Could it be a legal requirement that you can
request that your data is removed?
Could it be a legal requirement that you can prove that you are actually
the
To: Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: favor
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi FreeBSD. When googling my name, your list comes up 13 times because
of a
thread from 2003. Could you kindly remove and delete
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If Google can do it, I'm sure FreeBSD can figure out how to do it.
Google calls it nuking a post. Any nukers with know-how out there?
No, google keeps a mirror of the list, there are numerous independent
mirrors that are beyond control of FreeBSD.org, and you'll have
Chris Hodgins wrote:
Google only requests that you use the same email address to have it
removed. I think this is reasonable. You can actually get it removed
without using the email address but I think that is a little harder.
or forge the email?
If you feel the first matches refer to
Chris Hodgins wrote:
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[ ... ]
Google does offer a way to remove posts that you have made from its index:
http://www.google.co.uk/googlegroups/help.html#9
Notice the part which says:
Messages posted by other people
By its very nature, Usenet consists of information posted
Chuck Swiger wrote:
Chris Hodgins wrote:
Chuck Swiger wrote:
[ ... ]
Google does offer a way to remove posts that you have made from its
index:
http://www.google.co.uk/googlegroups/help.html#9
Notice the part which says:
Messages posted by other people
By its very nature, Usenet consists
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Hodgins
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 2:17 PM
To: Erik Norgaard
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: favor
No. You could however request that your own pages/articles
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM If you post on a public forum, by implication you are giving that
TM forum permission to publish your copyrighted material.
No, you're not. If you post to a public forum, you're giving implicit
permission for your posts to be visible _within that forum_. You are
not
On Friday 04 February 2005 10:39 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM If you post on a public forum, by implication you are
giving that TM forum permission to publish your copyrighted
material.
No, you're not. If you post to a public forum, you're giving
implicit
Mike Hauber writes:
MH Not wanting to jump into this, because I think the whole of the
MH argument is ridiculous... But, in a nutshell... Aren't you
MH trying to make the same argument that SCO is trying to make?
I'm not familiar with SCO's argument. The principles of copyright have
existed
On Friday 04 February 2005 11:52 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Mike Hauber writes:
MH Not wanting to jump into this, because I think the whole of
the MH argument is ridiculous... But, in a nutshell...
Aren't you MH trying to make the same argument that SCO is
trying to make?
I'm not
In that case, this email is absolutely copyrighted by me (along
with ... my recipie for coffee)
Hah! Bad move kiddo!
*slurp* *twitch*
I'll make a fortune! Hahaha...
Mark
--
PGP: http://www.darklogik.org/pub/pgp/pgp.txt
B776 43DC 8A5D EAF9 2126 9A67 A7DA 390F DEFF 9DD1
pgpnnQq0NmTBB.pgp
Actually, I have a question. I'm in the middle of upgrading my
dataserver, and I'm building ports on ttyv2,35. I have xdm
running on ttyv8. I just finished installing wdm (on ttyv4) and
I edited /etc/ttys to run wdm on ttyv8 instead of xdm. Is there
a way to reset ttyv8 so that it
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony
Atkielski
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:40 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
Ted Mittelstaedt writes:
TM If you post on a public forum, by implication you
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hauber
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 9:31 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: favor
On Friday 04 February 2005 11:52 pm, Anthony Atkielski wrote:
Mike Hauber writes:
MH
Mike Hauber wrote:
Fact is, the cats out of the bag, and I have yet to meet a cat
that likes bags. :)
I went on radio some years ago, now I realize that the radiowaves are
about to hit alien civilizations. In order not to embaras my self or the
entire human race, I'd like to have those radio
* Otvio Rox! ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020927 05:46]:
hi, im brazilian and i work as a free lancer with networks using freebsd,
and i work at an internet provider in fortaleza city called 'baydenet'
(www.baydenet.com.br).
i am really interested in having an e-mail adress @freebsd.org . Here in
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