Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
On Sun, Jul 18, 2004 at 01:15:21PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> > Brent Bailey writes:
> >
> > > The customer is running a file server samba also running apache
> > > running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup & the make
> > > buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x.
>
> why they want an upgrade as 4.2 works fine?
>
> smells like windows.
True. Upgrading just for the sake of it is not sensible. However
there are plenty of valid reasons for wanting to upgrade:
- Security Advisories: often these will be backported to earlier
versions, but the only versions where patches will definitely be
provided are the versions listed as 'supported' on
http://www.freebsd.org/releng/index.html
Generally any release will be supported for a year from release,
but there are exceptions. For instance, 4.8-RELEASE was recently
announced to have an extended support period which means that it
will be covered for longer than 4.9-RELEASE and about as long as
4.10-RELEASE, and the earlier developer preview 5.x-RELEASEs
weren't supported beyond the next DP release.
- Ports: These are only really guaranteed to work on the latest 4.x
or 5.x release, as limited resources mean that those are the only
OS versions where packages can be built en mass. While porters
will not gratuitously break compatability with earlier system
versions, sometimes this will happen. New features and bug fixes
in the compiler tool chain, make(1), the pkg_foo tools and so
forth can also break compatability with earlier versions.
- Hardware support: 4.2-RELEASE came out in November 2000. The
rate of change in computer hardware since then has been very
large. Should one of those servers bite the dust, it's quite
possible that 4.2-RELEASE wouldn't support the hardware available
on a replacement system. Better to do an upgrade calmly and
carefully and without undue pressure rather than having to rush
it through to get a replacement system back into production as
soon as possible.
Now, the question of having to upgrade all the way to 5.x, and
requiring that the upgrade is done "in place" by the usual
{build,install}{world,kernel} mechanism is a different matter. My
advice would be to avoid that as likely to cause more trouble than it
really warrants. The best mechanism for doing this sort of thing is
to start with a spare system, do a clean install of whatever OS
version is chosen (sizing all of the partitions etc. according to the
experience gained with the older systems) and build and configure all
of the required software from scratch. This will allow you to run the
new system in parallel with the old for testing purposes, and gives
you an easy route to back out the upgrade should it cause problems.
The procedure would be to upgrade each system this manner, and use
each old set of hardware as the spare to build the replacement for the
next system in turn.
Cheers,
Matthew
--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks
Savill Way
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow
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Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
> Brent Bailey writes: > > > The customer is running a file server samba also running apache > > running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup & the make > > buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. why they want an upgrade as 4.2 works fine? smells like windows. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:14:22 -0400 > From: epilogue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:50:13 +0200 > Remko Lodder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Brent Bailey wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd > > > systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server > > > samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using > > > cvsup & the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very > > > familier with the make buildworld procedure however there have been > > > significant changes between 4.2 & 5.x so is this something that can be > > > done without many problems ? > > hello brent, > > though i don't know anyone who has gone this route, i imagine it is > possible. the reason most people don't cvsup from 4.x to 5.x is because > there is a fundamental change in the filesystem (details of which escape me > now - check the release notes at freebsd.org). by simply cvsupping, you > will _not_ be able to take advantage of the new filesystem. > > if your customer insists upon 5.x, it would probably be best to prepare a > full back-up then: > > a) take the machine down, make a fresh install of 5.x, then load back data. > > b) build and configure a parallel 5.x machine, load it with the backed-up > data, then find a new use for the 4.x series machine. I have gone this route a couple of times. It was an interesting exercise, but not one I would recommend. It works, but things like the transition from ufs to ufs2 and new threading libraries and LOTS more make it a rough way to go. I think the advise to do a fresh install is the best option if you go to 5, but I'd really recommend staying at 4.10 or STABLE for now. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:14:22 -0400 epilogue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:50:13 +0200 > Remko Lodder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Brent Bailey wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd > > > systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server > > > samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade > > > using cvsup & the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im > > > very familier with the make buildworld procedure however there have > > > been significant changes between 4.2 & 5.x so is this something that > > > can be done without many problems ? > > hello brent, > > though i don't know anyone who has gone this route, i imagine it is > possible. the reason most people don't cvsup from 4.x to 5.x is because > there is a fundamental change in the filesystem (details of which escape > me now - check the release notes at freebsd.org). it bugged me not to remember, so i had a look. it is UFS1 for 4.x vs. UFS2 for 5.x (which can still deal with UFS1). the following is a very informative article, one to which should not only help you decide, but to which you can direct your client, should you so be inclined: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.2.1R/early-adopter.html epi p.s.: removed stable from the post. > by simply cvsupping, you > will _not_ be able to take advantage of the new filesystem. > > if your customer insists upon 5.x, it would probably be best to prepare a > full back-up then: > > a) take the machine down, make a fresh install of 5.x, then load back > data. > > b) build and configure a parallel 5.x machine, load it with the backed-up > data, then find a new use for the 4.x series machine. > > hth. > > > cheers, > epi > > > > Aside from reading throught the /usr/src/UPDATING file are > > > there things i should look out for being that the 2 versions are so > > > differrent. > > > > > > personally i would recommend going to the lastest stable release > > > 4.10-p2 > > > > > > I welcome this lists thoughts & opions on this matter > > > > > > thank in advance for any help :-) > > > > Hey Brent, > > > > FreeBSD 5.x has not yet been described as production release ready. > > So your customer is best advised to use the 4.x branch, and indeed at > > the moment that is 4.10 (and the patches afterwards ofcourse). > > > > However i am running FreeBSD 5.x as production server in 2 colocated > > boxes without any problems. So it does not mean that it's crashing all > > the time, but there might be bugs that can cause downtime for your > > customer, and he should be willing to risk that problem if you want to > > upgrade to 5.x. If he prefers stablitity, and little downtime you do > > best to upgrade to the latest 4 release with patches. > > > > Since it's a very long while back that i runned 4.x (4.3 ...) i can't > > remember anymore what the huge differences are, perhaps someone else > > can describe that to you. > > > > Cheers! > > > > -- > > Kind regards, > > > > Remko Lodder |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Reporter DSINet|[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > ___ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:50:13 +0200 Remko Lodder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Brent Bailey wrote: > > > Hello, > > My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd > > systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server > > samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using > > cvsup & the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very > > familier with the make buildworld procedure however there have been > > significant changes between 4.2 & 5.x so is this something that can be > > done without many problems ? hello brent, though i don't know anyone who has gone this route, i imagine it is possible. the reason most people don't cvsup from 4.x to 5.x is because there is a fundamental change in the filesystem (details of which escape me now - check the release notes at freebsd.org). by simply cvsupping, you will _not_ be able to take advantage of the new filesystem. if your customer insists upon 5.x, it would probably be best to prepare a full back-up then: a) take the machine down, make a fresh install of 5.x, then load back data. b) build and configure a parallel 5.x machine, load it with the backed-up data, then find a new use for the 4.x series machine. hth. cheers, epi > > Aside from reading throught the /usr/src/UPDATING file are > > there things i should look out for being that the 2 versions are so > > differrent. > > > > personally i would recommend going to the lastest stable release > > 4.10-p2 > > > > I welcome this lists thoughts & opions on this matter > > > > thank in advance for any help :-) > > Hey Brent, > > FreeBSD 5.x has not yet been described as production release ready. > So your customer is best advised to use the 4.x branch, and indeed at > the moment that is 4.10 (and the patches afterwards ofcourse). > > However i am running FreeBSD 5.x as production server in 2 colocated > boxes without any problems. So it does not mean that it's crashing all > the time, but there might be bugs that can cause downtime for your > customer, and he should be willing to risk that problem if you want to > upgrade to 5.x. If he prefers stablitity, and little downtime you do > best to upgrade to the latest 4 release with patches. > > Since it's a very long while back that i runned 4.x (4.3 ...) i can't > remember anymore what the huge differences are, perhaps someone else can > describe that to you. > > Cheers! > > -- > Kind regards, > > Remko Lodder |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reporter DSINet|[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
Conventional wisdom is that upgrading over major versions is an interesting academic exercise and an a great display of the power and flexibility of the platform, but that if you're just trying to get a working system then a clean install is the preferred method. With good separation of system, application and data, it shouldn't be difficult. -Andrew- -- ___ | -Andrew J. Caines- Unix Systems Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary | | safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 | ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
Remko Lodder: >Brent Bailey wrote: > >> Hello, >> My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd >> systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba >> also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup & >> the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very familier with the >> make buildworld procedure however there have been significant changes >> between 4.2 & 5.x so is this something that can be done without many >> problems ? Aside from reading throught the /usr/src/UPDATING file are >> there things i should look out for being that the 2 versions are so >> differrent. >> >> personally i would recommend going to the lastest stable release 4.10-p2 >> >> I welcome this lists thoughts & opions on this matter >> >> thank in advance for any help :-) > >Hey Brent, > >FreeBSD 5.x has not yet been described as production release ready. >So your customer is best advised to use the 4.x branch, and indeed at >the moment that is 4.10 (and the patches afterwards ofcourse). Furthermore, the advice is to upgrade to a very recent 4.x first, before taking the step to 5.x. So you´ll probably want to upgrade to 4.10p2 or 4-STABLE anyway. Maybe your customer would like you to go for an updated 4.x first, and go to 5.x later when it will be STABLE. Helge ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
Brent Bailey writes: > The customer is running a file server samba also running apache > running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup & the make > buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Your familiarity not withstanding, I would recommend against this. About the only reason to do this upgrade in-place is the utter lack of machines on which to put a fresh installation. The reasons _not_ to do this are legion, starting with disruption of a production enviroment and the (non-trivial) possibility it won't work and won't be restorable, all the way to reclaiming disk space used by abandoned executables/libraries/data. If desirable, it will also provide the opportunity to increase disk size and re-partition to meet actual use rather than following generic guidelines. Robert Huff ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
Remko Lodder wrote: Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup & the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very familier with the make buildworld procedure however there have been significant changes between 4.2 & 5.x so is this something that can be done without many problems ? Aside from reading throught the /usr/src/UPDATING file are there things i should look out for being that the 2 versions are so differrent. I believe the only reason to upgrade to 5.x would be if you need a feature in 5.x versions which doesnt exist in 4.x versions. Otherwise it is best to use 4.x-stable. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup & the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very familier with the make buildworld procedure however there have been significant changes between 4.2 & 5.x so is this something that can be done without many problems ? Aside from reading throught the /usr/src/UPDATING file are there things i should look out for being that the 2 versions are so differrent. personally i would recommend going to the lastest stable release 4.10-p2 I welcome this lists thoughts & opions on this matter thank in advance for any help :-) Hey Brent, FreeBSD 5.x has not yet been described as production release ready. So your customer is best advised to use the 4.x branch, and indeed at the moment that is 4.10 (and the patches afterwards ofcourse). However i am running FreeBSD 5.x as production server in 2 colocated boxes without any problems. So it does not mean that it's crashing all the time, but there might be bugs that can cause downtime for your customer, and he should be willing to risk that problem if you want to upgrade to 5.x. If he prefers stablitity, and little downtime you do best to upgrade to the latest 4 release with patches. Since it's a very long while back that i runned 4.x (4.3 ...) i can't remember anymore what the huge differences are, perhaps someone else can describe that to you. Cheers! -- Kind regards, Remko Lodder |[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reporter DSINet|[EMAIL PROTECTED] Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x
Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup & the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very familier with the make buildworld procedure however there have been significant changes between 4.2 & 5.x so is this something that can be done without many problems ? Aside from reading throught the /usr/src/UPDATING file are there things i should look out for being that the 2 versions are so differrent. personally i would recommend going to the lastest stable release 4.10-p2 I welcome this lists thoughts & opions on this matter thank in advance for any help :-) -- Brent Bailey CCNA Bmyster LLC Computer Networking and Webhosting Network Engineer, Webmaster, President http://www.bmyster.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 207-247-8330 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
