) and installed these ports
and experienced the exact same problem.
That's why I am here. Physical or localized issues have already been
ruled out.
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investigate the
reports, nevermind address them.
Congradulations. Good Job. If you aren't going to accept bug
reports, why exactly do you release testing candidates at all?
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the known flawed
releases as the long support releases. Brilliance. Just plain
brilliant, top to bottom.
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.
Your request is accepted. I'm unsubscribing now.
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, I would have happily
tried backing out some of the changes on a per-component basis to
figure it out.
In short, tell me what you wanted/needed, and I would have done it ASAP.
It's apparently irrelevant now.
--
Jo Rhett
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As per my previous message, I've spent about 3 months trying to debug
a problem that was causing all disk I/O to go very slowly.
One of the things which made this nearly impossible to diagnose was
the absolute lack of priority given to the console. Logging in on the
console would take
I've spent about 3 months tracing down what was causing my personal
colo box to start getting sluggish right around dawn every Saturday
morning. It took so long because some mornings I simply couldn't pull
my head out of my tail enough to do proper debugging.
The cause was *really slow*
This is now filed as PR 129149
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=129149
Given the nature of this bug, can I persuade someone to mark this as
blocking 6.4-RELEASE ?
On Nov 5, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Jo Rhett wrote:
On Oct 27, 2008, at 8:51 AM, John Baldwin wrote:
On Friday 24
, 2008, at 12:48 PM, Jo Rhett wrote:
I've spent about 3 months tracing down what was causing my personal
colo box to start getting sluggish right around dawn every
Saturday morning. It took so long because some mornings I simply
couldn't pull my head out of my tail enough to do proper debugging
So boot from CD, go to LIVE filesystem, mount my root and copy only /
boot/kernel?
Are there any other modules I should copy, or settings I should change?
On Nov 24, 2008, at 1:51 PM, Xin LI wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jo Rhett wrote:
This is now filed as PR 129149
John, I can ship you one of these machines for your own testing if you
like. Or send me a public key and I can give you SSH access to the
console serial port, whichever would be easiest for you to get what
you need.
Let me know how I can help.
On Nov 5, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Jo Rhett wrote
Jo Rhett wrote:
The driver logs all useful stuff, and the SEC logfile surfer does a
good job of notifying you quickly. I can send you an SEC
configuration for that if you want.
On Nov 16, 2008, at 10:06 PM, Oliver Lehmann wrote:
Hm - what is SEC?
Simple Event Correlator
http
]
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for that if you want.
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the binary
version of tw_cli that matches the firmware on your controller.
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-RELEASE builds in about a week and a
half. We encourage you to test out 6.4-RC2 and report any problems by
submitting PRs or via email to the freebsd-stable list.
I would love to, but it's still not available on the download area.
Er, i386 isn't anyway.
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Net Consonance : consonant
On Oct 27, 2008, at 8:51 AM, John Baldwin wrote:
On Friday 24 October 2008 02:48:13 pm Jo Rhett wrote:
So I booted up by CD and used Fixit mode to switch the system to boot
via serial (keyboard detached), but this gathered me even less.
/boot.config: -Dh
Consoles: internal video/keyboard
On Nov 5, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Jo Rhett wrote:
On Nov 3, 2008, at 8:57 AM, Ken Smith wrote:
The second Release Candidate for FreeBSD 6.4 is now available.
FreeBSD
6.4-RC2 should be the last of the public test builds for the
FreeBSD 6.4
release cycle. Unless a big show-stopper is found from
can't type
fast enough. Also noteworthy, I can't hit 6 to set console to
comconsole so that I could cut/paste this. It really seems like there
are major problems around the keyboard. (and no such problems with 6.3)
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available memory
FreeBSD/i386 bootstrap loader, Revision 1.1
([EMAIL PROTECTED]
Plugging back in the monitor after lockup showed only a single char
more:
([EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Oct 24, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Jo Rhett wrote:
On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:08 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
Has anyone filed a PR
John, is this perhaps the problem seen with 7.0, discussed here?
http://unix.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/FreeBSD/stable/2008-05/msg00437.html
On Oct 24, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Jo Rhett wrote:
On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:08 PM, John Baldwin wrote:
Has anyone filed a PR on this problem
process = 0 (swapper)
trap number = 12
panic: page fault
cpuid = 0
Uptime: 1s
Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort
--
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On Oct 24, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Jeremy Chadwick wrote:
| By Jo Rhett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| [ 2008-10-24 21:13 +0200 ]
On Oct 22, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Milan Obuch wrote:
I did not investigate on this issue too much, but there is an
workaround -
copy older /boot
. Anything specific that
would be more or less useful to debug in particular?
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Hi, Colin. Any news/thoughts on where we are with this?
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solves both of the problems you've very accurately
named above.
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On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 13:37 -0700, Jo Rhett wrote:
Normal
Releases which are published from a -STABLE branch will be
supported by the Security Officer for a minimum of 12 months after
the
release.
A release which is not the final minor release of a branch will
be additionally
of skipping releases. This may not be a
good idea -- it was just a toss out there, but it makes a lot more
sense than the existing policy. Could you at least respond to the
issues raised here?
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be implemented with a reasonable policy that
doesn't require a psychic to determine the likely failure or not of a
release. I've proposed one. I'm sure that there are better ways to
say it, but I'd really appreciate it if you guys would take the
problem seriously.
--
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Net
forward
movement. Feel free to correct me if we overlooked anything. Thanks.
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in a much more direct fashion than an e-mail thread.
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On Sep 23, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Colin Percival wrote:
jonathan michaels wrote:
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 01:37:03PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote:
Some quite lively offline discussion has come to conclusion with
the following suggestions to change the support policy.
Obviously, this is what we feel
the
question and you sit and chat about solutions that meet everyone's
needs. This situation with FreeBSD has been downright shocking
because I've never before in my life been attacked for saying We need
this. How can I help?
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? Twinkies?
Exactly. Thank you for phrasing it so very well.
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no value in the effort.
FWIW, this is why I'm in favor of consistent support periods. When
you align the business benefit with the community benefit, you can get
the business to help improve the community product.
(remainder snipped to a different subject line)
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, anyway)
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to release 6.5 then I'd be
totally happy. But that's not what is being said.
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that they
don't have the resources to support 3 major revisions, it's a pretty
good reason to think that FreeBSD can't either ;-)
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.
Acknowledged, sorry I was working from memory and forgot that the
things we had to patch for already went through a does it affect us
filter :-( You're right.
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the
Woody/Sarge era, and frankly I think that distinct production/
development tracks work even less well so it's not like I have useful
advice here ;-)
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situation)
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, it's being created by the existing policy.
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that a
business can understand. It's also always incrementally forward, and
doesn't reward a business for staying behind on a previous release -
like your existing policy is doing right now.
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Jo Rhett
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, please educate me. Or everyone. In particular, I'll be
happy to buy you coffee/beer/poison of choice at your leisure if that
would make this easier.
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and
try to determine what resources are necessary to achieve a certain
goal. Then you find those resources, etc etc...
Without input from the current release team extending the support
schedule is not possible.
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with
an effort that tried to provide more support.
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On Sep 19, 2008, at 9:41 PM, Gary Palmer wrote:
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 07:38:32PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote:
Without input from the current release team extending the support
schedule is not possible.
Inquiry - is release team the constraint?
I don't know. I asked why not, and was told
was expressing amusement about watching every developer
dance around the topic, skipping over the relevant part -- how do we
improve things?
We could improve things. We could get more resources. Why not
consider the topic?
That's not demanding. Check your dictionary.
--
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Net
.
Maybe, just maybe, there is some reason why FreeBSD doesn't want more
people helping. Or ... something. I haven't the vaguest clue. If
there is some reason why getting paid people to work on testing and
release cycle is a bad idea, would someone please stand up and explain?
--
Jo Rhett
is answered
clearly I tend to address topics which aren't resolved. But the
section you quoted is your worst example -- If you look at my reply,
you'll notice that not only did I not ignore it, I replied to that
section with concerns about fluctuating schedules that this document
presents.
--
Jo
that may not be so
obvious.
I suspect this above statement applies to every problem the release
and testing teams have. What is necessary to get consensus to even
discuss the issues involved?
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to the release team.
The only thing you've successfully done is given me three different
ways to eff off and leave you alone. Apparently, more resources is
not in your interest.
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote:
And my e-mails have always discussed ways to get more resources.
Recently we even had a group of people trying to arrange for more
explicit corporate support for testing and release process. For
some reason unclear to me, not a single developer has
. The others contribute at random, but I don't see that changing
much due to their existing commitments.
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http
it.
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On Sep 18, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Lowell Gilbert wrote:
I've kind of lost the drift, but it sounds to me as though Jo Rhett is
tentatively offering to take on extended support for 6.2, but not
earlier versions. Aside from programming skills, what would Jo need
to bring to the table in order
this tangent.
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freebsd-stable
.
If we had known (and longer than 12 month) maintenance periods for a
given release, then I could avoid maintaining this infrastructure
internally and would have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours a
month I could dedicate to testing and bug fixes of FreeBSD as a whole.
--
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Net
their effort on the mainstream release.
A bunch of us made proposals to our $EMPLOYERs to make this happen,
but there was no apparent interest from the release team so the effort
was abandoned.
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On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Jo Rhett wrote:
Robert, I'd like to point out to you that when I complained about
6.2's accelerated EoL, I was soundly boxed around the ears and told
that I should have been paying attention to the projected EoL date
when we decided to roll out 6.2 across the business
?
Please stop avoiding even considering what people are offering to you.
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resources into the mainstream release effort, when this kind of cycle
basically forces every company to run their own internal release
process.
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forced upon every
company that uses FreeBSD, those companies could commit more resources
to help the core (main branch, whatever - not Core) freebsd
development.
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.
To go back to the original statements made at the time: you should
consider the lifetime of the release before you invest resources in
it. That means we need to know the lifetime to determine how much
resources to apply to testing it, yes?
--
Jo Rhett
Net Consonance : consonant endings by net
- From there to here, from here to | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
there, funny things are everywhere. |
- Theodore Geisel |
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PM, Peter Wemm wrote:
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Jo Rhett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:59:33AM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote:
Every time it is rebuilding ad0. Every single boot in the last
two
weeks.
On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Clifton Royston wrote:
That just
this option doesn't appeal very much. Are there any
other options available?
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connections,
etc etcc but doesn't respond. No TCP negotiation, no response on
the console, etc. It's higher level activity which isn't working...
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On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 12:59:33AM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote:
Every time it is rebuilding ad0. Every single boot in the last two
weeks.
On Jul 11, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Clifton Royston wrote:
That just means that it halted without a proper shutdown. If it
crashes, the mirror isn't stopped
frustrated by this one.
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and I
haven't
checked into using the virtual serial on the Blades we have.
On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 09:42:16PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote:
This rhymes with sio deciding that your TTY is something other than
ttyd0. We had this same problem on Rackable -- even though the
proper
tty was setup 0x3f8 irq
it the console.
NOTE: I think this whole parade sucks, and the kernel should believe
device.hints ... but there is no apparent interest in solving this
problem (even when a bounty is offered), and I don't do enough device
driver development these days for it to be worth my time.
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to.
This makes sense. But for personal curiosity sake, what if Yahoo
needed to stick with supported FreeBSD releases? How would you deal
with updating that many machines every 12 months?
Would that be possible in your business?
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Jo Rhett
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to imagine the manpower cost of doing
so. (and to justify the manpower cost versus the gain from doing so...)
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for the
clarification ;-)
We don't upgrade machines that have been deployed unless there is a
good reason to.
Do you deploy machines for longer than 1 year? How do you deal with
security patches in the longer term?
--
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On Jun 9, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Joe Kelsey wrote:
Jo Rhett has clearly stated (in offline reply) that they do not
participate in the -BETA and-RC cycles leading up to -RELEASE, so
they therefore do not have any issues with -RELEASE and EoL to raise.
Actually, they still have the same complaints
On Jun 5, 2008, at 1:39 AM, Peter Jeremy wrote:
On 2008-Jun-04 22:22:33 -0700, Jo Rhett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
And please stop with the loaded language. I'm not asking anyone to
work
for me. I am suggesting that it is perhaps too early to EoL 6.2
because
6.3 isn't ready yet.
So you
for themselves.
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. There are
also FreeBSD hardware vendors who support FreeBSD as a platform.
If you want someone to take responsibility, make 'em an offer.
thanks,
BMS
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that FreeBSD can do -- maybe it is. I just couldn't find
any documentation of why dropping 6.2 makes a lot of sense, so I was
hoping to get a clear answer for that.
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.
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for dropping 6.2 in just barely more than a year..
On Jun 5, 2008, at 7:23 AM, John Baldwin wrote:
On Wednesday 04 June 2008 01:20:56 pm Jo Rhett wrote:
Okay, I totally understand that FreeBSD wants people to upgrade from
6.2 to 6.3. But given that 6.3 is still experiencing bugs with
things
, is this kind of repeated nastiness necessary?
Most everyone who has posted on this thread cares deeply about FreeBSD
and does what they can to support it. What do you hope to gain by
being nasty to them?
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they may believe themselves to be.
You seem quite willing to make enemies. I'm not your enemy, and we'd
both probably get a lot more work done if you stopped treating me like
one.
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known bugs in it.
It will take pretty much all the time I spend supporting FreeBSD os
and applications away to focus entirely on backporting security
patches back to 6.2. I know of several other organizations facing
the same problem.
--
Jo Rhett
Net Consonance : consonant endings by net
that.
I would rather focus my efforts on something that produces more
effective results.
This is the reasoning behind my question: why drop 6.2 and 6.1 at the
same time? What is the real cost of supporting 6.2 until a new stable
version ships?
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policy question gets lost.
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project to say the
least. A few negative comments doesn't mean they think the whole
project is trash. Excluding the fact that we're all human and have
emotions / ego, you have to agree that such a hostile approach isn't
really the best thing.
Thank you.
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of support for 6.2-RELEASE.
6.2 was (and *is* AFAIK) the most stable release of FreeBSD since 4.11
and it came out the door with less than 12 months of support intended.
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, please accept my apology for having created this thread as it
seems to have become nothing more than an opportunity for people talk
nastily to others.
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(without attacking me?) give some insight
into the issues here? This is what I was asking: what prevents
supporting 6.2 ? Where could I best apply some of my time to improve
the situation?
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of the entries.
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being nasty. I'd said much the same thing over the
last 5 days, but I haven't once uttered a word about you not reading
what has already been said repeatedly. Nor does that topic interest
me. I am curious about the policy issue involved here.
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Net Consonance : consonant
=Jo+Rhett
There are some resources to help you find already-submitted PRs to
reference if it will help. (The latter 2 are new, and are attempts
by the bugbusting team to flag 'well-known problem' and 'PR indicates
regression'):
http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/Commonly_reported_issues
http
in particular lives in Japan these days so a colo visit
would take him a day or two...
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http
improve the situation.
Anyway, I've said this a dozen times now so I won't be repeating it.
You are welcome to continue ignoring it.
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