[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[Ann]

Follow-up Comment #5, bug #14452 (project freeciv):

Another comparison could be the great wall (you can build walls) vs. marco
polo (you cannot create embassies).  Both wonders will be obsoleted, so you
would expect similar treatment to currently exist.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[pepeto]

Follow-up Comment #4, bug #14452 (project freeciv):

> Barracks are not made completely redundant by Sun Tzu. Sun Tzu
> has no unit healing effect.

I noticed that recently.  But it is an example.  In the original comment of
bug #14448, it also points that you can still build walls in cities even if
you have the Great Wall.


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[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[Marko Lindqvist]

Follow-up Comment #3, bug #14452 (project freeciv):

> I've always found it quite annoying when a city decides to start
> building barracks despite the fact that I have Sun Tzu's War
> Academy--it's just not a logical thing to do.

I notice only now that original bug report uses Sun Tzu as example.

Barracks are not made completely redundant by Sun Tzu. Sun Tzu has no unit
healing effect.




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[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[Ann]

Follow-up Comment #2, bug #14452 (project freeciv):

I would suggest a modification of 2, namely that the player can always choose
to build the building, but that it will never be automatically chosen for
building if the city worklist runs out.  I've always found it quite annoying
when a city decides to start building barracks despite the fact that I have
Sun Tzu's War Academy--it's just not a logical thing to do.

It might also be nice to give a visual clue to the player that the buildings
are currently not useful.  Rather than the crossed-out name that you see
currently with cathedrals (which suggests that it can't be built) it could
perhaps be somewhat lighter in colour, or in italics, etc.  Another option
would be to have an option like the 'show future options', ie 'show buildings
made redundant by wonders'.

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Re: [Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[Goswin von Brederlow]

Pepeto  writes:

> Currently, this can be done with the nreqs array.  But I agree with your
> solution which looks better for future.  Maybe the value of the effects
> could be relative or absolute:
> * a absolute value (then the maximal one would be used).
> * a relative value (+=bonus, -=bonus, *=bonus or /=bonus).
>
> Le mercredi 07 octobre 2009 à 06:14 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a
> écrit :
>> anonymous  writes:
>> 
>> > Follow-up Comment #1, bug #14452 (project freeciv):
>> >
>> > Possible guidelines:
>> >
>> > 1) Never allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
>> > 2) Always allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
>> > 3) Allow building buildings replaced by active wonder that will obsolete at
>> > some point
>> >
>> > We should go by 2. Wonder might be in a city that player knows (s)he will
>> > eventually be unable to defend.
>> 
>> What about when you can already see you are going to loose some city
>> to the enemy and it contains the wonder? One might want to build
>> replacement buildings before the city falls.
>> 
>> Another issue is with wonders and buildings that don't quite do the
>> same:
>> 
>> - a power plant is worse than the Hoover Dam.
>> - a solar plant (galactic ruleset) is better than the Hoover Dam.
>> 
>> In general a wonder and a building might have overlapping effects but
>> not identical effects.
>> 
>> So having local buildings override the wonder or the wonder override
>> the building are both unsatisfactory. It would be nice if the effects
>> of the wonder and building would be merged, e.g. take the maximum of
>> each effect the wonder and bulding have in common.
>> 

I also like the way the Pyramids/Granary work. Both have a big effect
but combined you get a little bit extra.

MfG
Goswin

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Re: [Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[Pepeto]

Currently, this can be done with the nreqs array.  But I agree with your
solution which looks better for future.  Maybe the value of the effects
could be relative or absolute:
* a absolute value (then the maximal one would be used).
* a relative value (+=bonus, -=bonus, *=bonus or /=bonus).

Le mercredi 07 octobre 2009 à 06:14 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a
écrit :
> anonymous  writes:
> 
> > Follow-up Comment #1, bug #14452 (project freeciv):
> >
> > Possible guidelines:
> >
> > 1) Never allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
> > 2) Always allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
> > 3) Allow building buildings replaced by active wonder that will obsolete at
> > some point
> >
> > We should go by 2. Wonder might be in a city that player knows (s)he will
> > eventually be unable to defend.
> 
> What about when you can already see you are going to loose some city
> to the enemy and it contains the wonder? One might want to build
> replacement buildings before the city falls.
> 
> Another issue is with wonders and buildings that don't quite do the
> same:
> 
> - a power plant is worse than the Hoover Dam.
> - a solar plant (galactic ruleset) is better than the Hoover Dam.
> 
> In general a wonder and a building might have overlapping effects but
> not identical effects.
> 
> So having local buildings override the wonder or the wonder override
> the building are both unsatisfactory. It would be nice if the effects
> of the wonder and building would be merged, e.g. take the maximum of
> each effect the wonder and bulding have in common.
> 


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Re: [Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[Goswin von Brederlow]

anonymous  writes:

> Follow-up Comment #1, bug #14452 (project freeciv):
>
> Possible guidelines:
>
> 1) Never allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
> 2) Always allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
> 3) Allow building buildings replaced by active wonder that will obsolete at
> some point
>
> We should go by 2. Wonder might be in a city that player knows (s)he will
> eventually be unable to defend.

What about when you can already see you are going to loose some city
to the enemy and it contains the wonder? One might want to build
replacement buildings before the city falls.

Another issue is with wonders and buildings that don't quite do the
same:

- a power plant is worse than the Hoover Dam.
- a solar plant (galactic ruleset) is better than the Hoover Dam.

In general a wonder and a building might have overlapping effects but
not identical effects.

So having local buildings override the wonder or the wonder override
the building are both unsatisfactory. It would be nice if the effects
of the wonder and building would be merged, e.g. take the maximum of
each effect the wonder and bulding have in common.


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[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[anonymous]

Follow-up Comment #1, bug #14452 (project freeciv):

Possible guidelines:

1) Never allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
2) Always allow building of buildings replaced by active wonder
3) Allow building buildings replaced by active wonder that will obsolete at
some point

We should go by 2. Wonder might be in a city that player knows (s)he will
eventually be unable to defend.


- Cazfi


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[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14452] Wonders binding other buildings effects

[pepeto]

URL:
  

 Summary: Wonders binding other buildings effects 
 Project: Freeciv
Submitted by: pepeto
Submitted on: mardi 06.10.2009 à 10:11
Category: rulesets
Severity: 3 - Normal
Priority: 1 - Later
  Status: None
 Assigned to: None
Originator Email: 
 Open/Closed: Open
 Release: 
 Discussion Lock: Any
Operating System: None
 Planned Release: None

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Details:

Following bug #14448:comment #4 This is not logical that the Michelangelo's
Chapel forbids the construction of cathedrals whereas Sun Tzu War Academy
allows the construction of barracks.





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