Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[thraex]

On 20.05.2020 00:13, Jerome Shidel wrote:


> But, eventually FDIMPLES will support multiple online software repos. So...

That would be great IMHO, so that like Debian GNU/Linux we can separate
free and non free programs. One repo for FreeDOS, another one for
additional things that are not officially part of the distribution.

Also, thanks a lot for your bash script Jerome. I'll drop updated CSV
files on GitHub.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[Jerome Shidel]

> On May 19, 2020, at 4:41 PM, thraex  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 18.05.2020 23:28, Jerome Shidel wrote:
> 
>>> Hehe, I have bad news for you Jerome. I reviewed French translations and
>>> I (or rather, the spellchecker and the Grammalecte tool) caught several
>>> mistakes in choice, edlin, fc, fdnpkg, find, freecom_err, freecom_lng,
>>> help, htmlhelp, md5sum, more, move, password, sort, trch, tree, and
>>> xcopy. I already filed a report
>>> () for FreeCOM containing the
>>> updated translations, but for the remaining ones it looks like fd-nls
>>> will be their new home (see ) :P
>> (...)
>> If you’ve found spelling and grammatical errors, please update them and 
>> submit a
>> Pull request. 
> 
> I'm cardpuncher on GitHub, so... :) You already committed the files I
> attached to the bug report, thanks for that.
> 
>> Actually, the current FR & TR files are semi-broken. The RBE (Release Build 
>> Environment)
>> throws many errors while parsing those CSV files. Mostly, they have an extra 
>> column. The RBE
> 
> I wonder where that extra column comes from. I worked on the file with
> LibreOffice Calc. Maybe it would be better if I sent you an ods file
> instead of a csv.
> 
>> complains and ignores it. However, some entries cause it to basically say 
>> "HUH?” and just ignore 
>> the entire translation for that package. The RBE outputs a message for 
>> missing translations data.
>> I need to add something that also lists missing entries. (if no translation 
>> at all, it doesn’t complain… yet)
>> 
>> If you could spend a few minutes and check out the LOG to fix the current 
>> issues, I’d really appreciate it.
>> I’m really getting tired of seeing hundreds of translation errors during 
>> release test builds. :-)
> 
> Ouch. I would happily do my best but I'm afraid I would also need some
> hand holding. To begin with, where can I take a look at that log?

The log from the status util is kinda bare, just basic reasons and issues. 

The one from the RBE is more detailed on ones it can’t make any sense of.


>> Meanwhile, I’ll spend a couple minutes and throw together a bash script, 
>> that will compare the main English CSV to a 
>> translation and generate a "What’s needed” CSV.
> 
> I saw your new csv and updated the translation in French. That said, I
> noticed that several non free programs were included like unrar, xcdrom
> or gsplay and some other programs labelled as "Freeware", "Greenware"
> (?) and "emailware". Have they just slipped through or does the FreeDOS
> project accept non free stuff in the distribution?
> 

Nope, the “master.csv” creates by combining the listings from the official repo 
(about 330pkgs) and my unofficial (and far less strict) repo (appx 375 Pkgs and 
growing). 

That being said, I could just limit the master.csv to the official repo. 

Up to you guys.

But, eventually FDIMPLES will support multiple online software repos. So...


> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

As experienced user of portable standard file formats, I would like
to say that CSV, with a clear definition of which style you should
use, is much better than "I just send you the ODS and you tweak it
in whatever way works for your conversion to translation data" ;-)

> I saw your new csv and updated the translation in French. That said, I
> noticed that several non free programs were included like unrar, xcdrom
> or gsplay and some other programs labelled as "Freeware"..,

We should probably be using udvd2 instead of the ancient xcdrom,
or are drives known for which the latter would work better for
some reasons I would have forgotten?

Regards, Eric :-)



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[thraex]

On 18.05.2020 23:28, Jerome Shidel wrote:

>> Hehe, I have bad news for you Jerome. I reviewed French translations and
>> I (or rather, the spellchecker and the Grammalecte tool) caught several
>> mistakes in choice, edlin, fc, fdnpkg, find, freecom_err, freecom_lng,
>> help, htmlhelp, md5sum, more, move, password, sort, trch, tree, and
>> xcopy. I already filed a report
>> () for FreeCOM containing the
>> updated translations, but for the remaining ones it looks like fd-nls
>> will be their new home (see ) :P
> (...)
> If you’ve found spelling and grammatical errors, please update them and 
> submit a
> Pull request. 

I'm cardpuncher on GitHub, so... :) You already committed the files I
attached to the bug report, thanks for that.

> Actually, the current FR & TR files are semi-broken. The RBE (Release Build 
> Environment)
> throws many errors while parsing those CSV files. Mostly, they have an extra 
> column. The RBE

I wonder where that extra column comes from. I worked on the file with
LibreOffice Calc. Maybe it would be better if I sent you an ods file
instead of a csv.

> complains and ignores it. However, some entries cause it to basically say 
> "HUH?” and just ignore 
> the entire translation for that package. The RBE outputs a message for 
> missing translations data.
> I need to add something that also lists missing entries. (if no translation 
> at all, it doesn’t complain… yet)
> 
> If you could spend a few minutes and check out the LOG to fix the current 
> issues, I’d really appreciate it.
> I’m really getting tired of seeing hundreds of translation errors during 
> release test builds. :-)

Ouch. I would happily do my best but I'm afraid I would also need some
hand holding. To begin with, where can I take a look at that log?

> Meanwhile, I’ll spend a couple minutes and throw together a bash script, that 
> will compare the main English CSV to a 
> translation and generate a "What’s needed” CSV.

I saw your new csv and updated the translation in French. That said, I
noticed that several non free programs were included like unrar, xcdrom
or gsplay and some other programs labelled as "Freeware", "Greenware"
(?) and "emailware". Have they just slipped through or does the FreeDOS
project accept non free stuff in the distribution?


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[Jerome Shidel]

Hi,

> On May 18, 2020, at 3:42 PM, thraex  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 18.05.2020 15:17, Jerome Shidel wrote:
> 
>> First, http://freedoslocal.sourceforge.net is no longer maintained. 
> 
> Indeed, that's a resource I miss sorely as a translator :(
> 
>> Occasionally, individuals have sent me translations for packages other
>> than the ones I develop. With no good place to send them at present,
>> I just started to funnel all translations into a new Github project
>> at https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls 
>> 
>> At present, I’m thinking of it as a new temporary home for all of them. 
> 
> Hehe, I have bad news for you Jerome. I reviewed French translations and
> I (or rather, the spellchecker and the Grammalecte tool) caught several
> mistakes in choice, edlin, fc, fdnpkg, find, freecom_err, freecom_lng,
> help, htmlhelp, md5sum, more, move, password, sort, trch, tree, and
> xcopy. I already filed a report
> () for FreeCOM containing the
> updated translations, but for the remaining ones it looks like fd-nls
> will be their new home (see ) :P

Unfortunately if you disregard the little broken-spanish I know, I really only 
speak
and write two languages, English and bad English. :-)

If you’ve found spelling and grammatical errors, please update them and submit a
Pull request. 

> 
> Also, I would have two questions:
> 
> Firstly, I noticed
> 
> now has 331 listings, whereas the file I had translated in 2018 has only
> 302. Do you have updated French & Turkish csv files so I can translate
> new items that must be in English, or do I have to insert them manually
> on my side (ugh)?

Actually, the current FR & TR files are semi-broken. The RBE (Release Build 
Environment)
throws many errors while parsing those CSV files. Mostly, they have an extra 
column. The RBE
complains and ignores it. However, some entries cause it to basically say 
"HUH?” and just ignore 
the entire translation for that package. The RBE outputs a message for missing 
translations data.
I need to add something that also lists missing entries. (if no translation at 
all, it doesn’t complain… yet)

If you could spend a few minutes and check out the LOG to fix the current 
issues, I’d really appreciate it.
I’m really getting tired of seeing hundreds of translation errors during 
release test builds. :-)

Meanwhile, I’ll spend a couple minutes and throw together a bash script, that 
will compare the main English CSV to a 
translation and generate a "What’s needed” CSV.

> 
> Secondly, I noticed certain translations (for isntance fdnpkg.fr) do not
> comply with the limit of 80 characters per line.
> Let's consider:
> "2.6:Vous devriez mettre dans votre fichier de configuration au moins
> une entr‚ée de la forme suivante :"
> Is this OK, or should it be split in two lines? If so, may I ask the
> syntax for doing so?

Honestly don’t know. I don’t use kitten, cats or any of those NLS libs in favor 
of my own.

I’ve always preferred entries like

WELCOME_MSG=Hi there

to

1.7=Hi there.

But, that’s probably just me.

Anyhow, you should check with Mateusz for the specifics on how his programs 
handles NLS. 

> 
> Thanks a lot for your time.
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[thraex]

On 18.05.2020 15:17, Jerome Shidel wrote:

> First, http://freedoslocal.sourceforge.net is no longer maintained. 

Indeed, that's a resource I miss sorely as a translator :(

> Occasionally, individuals have sent me translations for packages other
> than the ones I develop. With no good place to send them at present,
> I just started to funnel all translations into a new Github project
> at https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls 
> 
> At present, I’m thinking of it as a new temporary home for all of them. 

Hehe, I have bad news for you Jerome. I reviewed French translations and
I (or rather, the spellchecker and the Grammalecte tool) caught several
mistakes in choice, edlin, fc, fdnpkg, find, freecom_err, freecom_lng,
help, htmlhelp, md5sum, more, move, password, sort, trch, tree, and
xcopy. I already filed a report
() for FreeCOM containing the
updated translations, but for the remaining ones it looks like fd-nls
will be their new home (see ) :P

Also, I would have two questions:

Firstly, I noticed

now has 331 listings, whereas the file I had translated in 2018 has only
302. Do you have updated French & Turkish csv files so I can translate
new items that must be in English, or do I have to insert them manually
on my side (ugh)?

Secondly, I noticed certain translations (for isntance fdnpkg.fr) do not
comply with the limit of 80 characters per line.
Let's consider:
"2.6:Vous devriez mettre dans votre fichier de configuration au moins
une entr‚ée de la forme suivante :"
Is this OK, or should it be split in two lines? If so, may I ask the
syntax for doing so?

Thanks a lot for your time.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[Jerome Shidel]

> On May 18, 2020, at 2:59 PM, Emir Yâsin SARI via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> [..]
> I have updated a couple of translations, and opened a PR for them.

Thanks.

> 
>> The best solution, is to send translations to the actual developer of the 
>> individual project the translation was created.
> 
> I tend to disagree. AFAIS, it is really hard to find all the maintainers, and 
> chase them to update their version. Instead, maintaining them at the FDOS 
> organisation (each project would have their own maintainer and only the 
> maintainer would have the permission to edit) would contribute to a steady 
> development.
> 
> This would really help the FDOS release managers to update the latest strings 
> before a major release.
> 
> Regarding the remaining translations, I still have fdpkg, fc, tee, md5sum, 
> password and htmlhelp to update. I searched on the internet for the source 
> files, but most ibiblio links are dead and some of the source files have 
> conflicting message file contents/outdated. I would really appreciate help 
> regarding these files.
> 
> On the main Github org; edlin, find, sort have pending PRs for the 
> translations as well.

For now, it may be a good idea to setup a PR for my nls that contains all of 
those (fdpkg, edlin, etc)  as well. 

> 
> Thank you,
> Emir
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[Emir Yâsin SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello,

Thank you Jerome for your reply.

> Jerome Shidel  şunları yazdı (18 May 2020 15:17):
> 
> But, that is mostly just normal management headaches.

To fix that, a common repository with all strings’ files would be an ideal 
intermediary solution. Each package maintainer would upload their strings, and 
translators could update as necessary. And it should be the translator’s 
responsibility to make sure that before a release all translations are updated.

> 
> Occasionally, individuals have sent me translations for packages other than 
> the ones I develop. With no good place to send them at present,
> I just started to funnel all translations into a new Github project at 
> https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls

I have updated a couple of translations, and opened a PR for them.

> The best solution, is to send translations to the actual developer of the 
> individual project the translation was created.

I tend to disagree. AFAIS, it is really hard to find all the maintainers, and 
chase them to update their version. Instead, maintaining them at the FDOS 
organisation (each project would have their own maintainer and only the 
maintainer would have the permission to edit) would contribute to a steady 
development.

This would really help the FDOS release managers to update the latest strings 
before a major release.

Regarding the remaining translations, I still have fdpkg, fc, tee, md5sum, 
password and htmlhelp to update. I searched on the internet for the source 
files, but most ibiblio links are dead and some of the source files have 
conflicting message file contents/outdated. I would really appreciate help 
regarding these files.

On the main Github org; edlin, find, sort have pending PRs for the translations 
as well.

Thank you,
Emir

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Missing FDOS utilities

[Jerome Shidel]

Hi,

> On May 18, 2020, at 7:23 AM, Emir Yâsin SARI via Freedos-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Lately I have been translating FreeDOS utilities into Turkish, and most of 
> them are merged into their respective master repositories, thank you very 
> much. After submitting the translations, thraex mentioned the site 
> http://freedoslocal.sourceforge.net/, in which complete FreeDOS utility 
> translations can be found. But when I glance at the FDOS Github organisation, 
> most of these utilities are missing, specifically:
> 
> password, move, compute, pause, fdpkg, trch, htmlhelp, md5sum, tee, help, fc.
> 
> Where are these utilities located? I’d like to review current translations 
> and submit updated ones before the test release for 1.3. It would be splendid 
> if these utilities were included within the Github FDOS organisation.
> 
> Thank you,
> Emir


Well, there are a couple issues. 

First, http://freedoslocal.sourceforge.net 
 is no longer maintained. 

Also, the way packages are structured does not really lend itself to doing 
quick and easy updates to its language translation.

For example, lets say we have a DPRUNE v1.23.
Someone submits a spanish translation. 
After we incorporate the translation, the version needs changed. 
Lets say, we change it to DPRUNE v1.23b.
Now we get a Russian Translation.
Rebuild the package as v1.23c
Now, the author of the releases an update as v1.23a with either ES or RU 
translations.
Ugh.

But, that is mostly just normal management headaches.

Occasionally, individuals have sent me translations for packages other than the 
ones I develop. With no good place to send them at present,
I just started to funnel all translations into a new Github project at 
https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls  

At present, I’m thinking of it as a new temporary home for all of them. 

The best solution, is to send translations to the actual developer of the 
individual project the translation was created.

I think for the time being, we may want to create a new package that just 
contains all of the unincorporated language translations. 
It could be updated at anytime and not require repacking any programs. Then 
when the program is updated, it could include the newest translations.

Another alternative would be to remove all translations from individual 
packages and put them in a language specific translation package. 

IDK. 

Jerome


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