Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:29:56 -0500, Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de wrote: Hi! The DOS format utility is kind of an anachronism at this point. Usually it takes a long time to format a partition because it's iterating through every sector of the disk. It's completely unnecessary these days. All it really needs to do is write a boot sector, FAT, and root directory. That is why FORMAT has options for QUICK format, which does exactly that: Write only the FAT, root dir and boot sector. Optionally, that combines with making a backup of those areas near the end of the disk, allowing a later UNFORMAT. But of course quick format is quickest without that backup step ;-) Of course both do not work with never-yet-formatted floppies. Eric When formatting a harddisk partition (or flash or whatever the actual medium is), MS FORMAT relies on a correct boot sector already having been created by FDISK. I discovered this not long ago when I tried to resize a partition by tweaking the MBR with a sector editor. I changed a 20GB partition to 60GB. But when I ran FORMAT, it continued to report 20GB. I had to change the size in the partition's boot sector as well. And this is just to perform a slow format. As for quick format, it doesn't work unless the partition has previously been slow-formatted to create a valid FAT. This behavior makes sense in the context of FAT16 where the disk is checked for bad clusters which can then be marked in the FAT. In the context of FAT32, not so much... -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Shaw's Nightmare
It's not that I don't want people to view the source code. I just want trustworthy people to view it. But I may release the source code if the project gets cancelled. -- Michael, the boy who makes Shaw's Nightmare -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] FAT format process - was: Re: Quickview ver 2.60
Hi again, When formatting a harddisk partition (or flash or whatever the actual medium is), MS FORMAT relies on a correct boot sector already having been created by FDISK. I discovered this not long ago when I tried to resize a partition by tweaking the MBR with a sector editor. You cannot resize a FAT filesystem by just changing the partitions: The boot sector describes the size of FAT and filesystem. DOS needs that even when you change partition sizes later. However, it should be sufficient to zap the boot sector before formating to new size. Or start but then abort a non-quick format :-) Or, maybe better, use tools to truly resize the filesystem. With smart algorithms, this can get away with editing only the FAT and directory data in some cases. had to change the size in the partition's boot sector as well. And this is just to perform a slow format. As for quick format, it doesn't work unless the partition has previously been slow-formatted to create a valid FAT. This limitation should not be present in FreeDOS: Default there is for harddisks to do a quick format, either with or without saving unformat data depending on whether there already was a filesystem. This behavior makes sense in the context of FAT16 where the disk is checked for bad clusters which can then be marked in the FAT. In the context of FAT32, not so much... In FreeDOS, even slow format defaults to NOT check for bad clusters for harddisks, unless you explicitly use the /U option. Even then, you can abort the wipe / surface check process half-way. FORMAT will still be complete then, just without the rest of the wipe and check. The fastest mode in FreeDOS FORMAT is /Q /U which explicitly does not try to save unformat data. It just creates empty FAT, boot and root. Regards, Eric -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] MetaDOS floppy distro - XFDOS - DOS4WIN64 Qemu environment
Rugxulo mentioned that Reactos is available in a Qemu environment for Windows. This got me to setup such a Qemu environment for MetaDOS and my XFDOS as well. You can download it here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/files/Applications/DOS4WIN64_beta1.zip Without my included XFDOS ISO image this package is just about 5 MB in size. So if you have a DOS application that you want to make available for Windows 7 or 8 in 64 bit mode you could add this to the MetaDOS image in this package and allow your users to run it on Windows 7 or 8 without installing any additional emulation packages. If there is a FAT disk available, this can be accessed directly from MetaDOS if configured. Georg -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] MetaDOS floppy distro - XFDOS - DOS4WIN64 Qemu environment
Georg Potthast schreef op 7-12-2014 om 12:51: Without my included XFDOS ISO image this package is just about 5 MB in size. So if you have a DOS application that you want to make available for Windows 7 or 8 in 64 bit mode you could add this to the MetaDOS image in this package and allow your users to run it on Windows 7 or 8 without installing any additional emulation packages. If there is a FAT disk available, this can be accessed directly from MetaDOS if configured. http://qemu.weilnetz.de/ contains more recent binaries for QEMU for Windows, but the syntax for specifying files and options might be different. If only they had binaries that were 8.3-compliant and allowed read-only environment (no temp files, log files, etc) you could add QEMU/Bochs to CD with FreeDOS. For bochs, specifying an ISO that loads a writeable harddisk image works. Specifying a harddisk image doesn't work as you can't indicate read-only harddisk, only CD and floppy. Thanks for making this available Georg. Bernd -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
I like to buy old used chips that can have lots of hidden junk on them. Its best to really clean them. Not a problem with cf chips but sd stuff is really slow. 32 gigs and higher just doesn't make it. cheers DS On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 03:16:35 -0500 TJ Edmister damag...@hyakushiki.net writes: On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:29:56 -0500, Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de wrote: Hi! The DOS format utility is kind of an anachronism at this point. Usually it takes a long time to format a partition because it's iterating through every sector of the disk. It's completely unnecessary these days. All it really needs to do is write a boot sector, FAT, and root directory. That is why FORMAT has options for QUICK format, which does exactly that: Write only the FAT, root dir and boot sector. Optionally, that combines with making a backup of those areas near the end of the disk, allowing a later UNFORMAT. But of course quick format is quickest without that backup step ;-) Of course both do not work with never-yet-formatted floppies. Eric When formatting a harddisk partition (or flash or whatever the actual medium is), MS FORMAT relies on a correct boot sector already having been created by FDISK. I discovered this not long ago when I tried to resize a partition by tweaking the MBR with a sector editor. I changed a 20GB partition to 60GB. But when I ran FORMAT, it continued to report 20GB. I had to change the size in the partition's boot sector as well. And this is just to perform a slow format. As for quick format, it doesn't work unless the partition has previously been slow-formatted to create a valid FAT. This behavior makes sense in the context of FAT16 where the disk is checked for bad clusters which can then be marked in the FAT. In the context of FAT32, not so much... - - Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clk trk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user Protect what matters Floods can happen anywhere. Learn your risk and find an agent today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/54847d501eb0d7d4f66dfmp11duc ** From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] MetaDOS floppy distro - XFDOS - DOS4WIN64 Qemu environment
I will use later versions of Qemu in the next release. However, I would like to use binaries that use SDL instead of GTK because I think these require less disk space. Qemu is faster than Bochs if you run it on the processor it is currently emulating. It will then use the real processor to some extend. Qemu supports read-only in some disk configurations. When accessing the FAT32 hard disk on my Windows XP system I could see the file names as 8.3 names using the tilde. Georg -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] MetaDOS floppy distro - XFDOS - DOS4WIN64 Qemu environment
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Georg Potthast mail...@georgpotthast.de wrote: I will use later versions of Qemu in the next release. However, I would like to use binaries that use SDL instead of GTK because I think these require less disk space. Given the size and cost of current drives, how much does anyone actually *care* about the disk space requirements? Georg __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FAT format process - was: Re: Quickview ver 2.60
On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 05:16:25 -0500, Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de wrote: This limitation should not be present in FreeDOS: Default there is for harddisks to do a quick format, either with or without saving unformat data depending on whether there already was a filesystem. This behavior makes sense in the context of FAT16 where the disk is checked for bad clusters which can then be marked in the FAT. In the context of FAT32, not so much... In FreeDOS, even slow format defaults to NOT check for bad clusters for harddisks, unless you explicitly use the /U option. Even then, you can abort the wipe / surface check process half-way. FORMAT will still be complete then, just without the rest of the wipe and check. The fastest mode in FreeDOS FORMAT is /Q /U which explicitly does not try to save unformat data. It just creates empty FAT, boot and root. Regards, Eric So the FreeDOS FORMAT is superior in this regard, but I don't know then why it would take a long time to format an SD card as mentioned earlier in this thread. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
The complete format does have one virtue. It wipes the disk if you need to make sure the previous information is gone. bs On Sun, 12/7/14, TJ Edmister damag...@hyakushiki.net wrote: Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60 To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Sunday, December 7, 2014, 3:16 AM On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:29:56 -0500, Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de wrote: Hi! The DOS format utility is kind of an anachronism at this point. Usually it takes a long time to format a partition because it's iterating through every sector of the disk. It's completely unnecessary these days. All it really needs to do is write a boot sector, FAT, and root directory. That is why FORMAT has options for QUICK format, which does exactly that: Write only the FAT, root dir and boot sector. Optionally, that combines with making a backup of those areas near the end of the disk, allowing a later UNFORMAT. But of course quick format is quickest without that backup step ;-) Of course both do not work with never-yet-formatted floppies. Eric When formatting a harddisk partition (or flash or whatever the actual medium is), MS FORMAT relies on a correct boot sector already having been created by FDISK. I discovered this not long ago when I tried to resize a partition by tweaking the MBR with a sector editor. I changed a 20GB partition to 60GB. But when I ran FORMAT, it continued to report 20GB. I had to change the size in the partition's boot sector as well. And this is just to perform a slow format. As for quick format, it doesn't work unless the partition has previously been slow-formatted to create a valid FAT. This behavior makes sense in the context of FAT16 where the disk is checked for bad clusters which can then be marked in the FAT. In the context of FAT32, not so much... -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] MetaDOS floppy distro - XFDOS - DOS4WIN64 Qemu environment
Some of us are hobbyists trying to make 20th century computers function. bs On Sun, 12/7/14, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] MetaDOS floppy distro - XFDOS - DOS4WIN64 Qemu environment To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Sunday, December 7, 2014, 2:32 PM On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Georg Potthast mail...@georgpotthast.de wrote: I will use later versions of Qemu in the next release. However, I would like to use binaries that use SDL instead of GTK because I think these require less disk space. Given the size and cost of current drives, how much does anyone actually *care* about the disk space requirements? Georg __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] MetaDOS floppy distro - XFDOS - DOS4WIN64 Qemu environment
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Bob Schwier schwepes2...@yahoo.com wrote: Some of us are hobbyists trying to make 20th century computers function. If you have the hardware to run a QEMU environment, disk space is unlikely to be a huge concern. If it *is* a concern, you may not be able to run QEMU. bs __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote: I like to buy old used chips that can have lots of hidden junk on them. Its best to really clean them. Not a problem with cf chips but sd stuff is really slow. 32 gigs and higher just doesn't make it. What hardware are you running? I'll take your word for it that it's an issue in your environment. It's never been an issue here, and I am not running the fastest and most powerful machines. I am actually rather behind the curve. cheers DS __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Bob Schwier schwepes2...@yahoo.com wrote: The complete format does have one virtue. It wipes the disk if you need to make sure the previous information is gone. If that's a real concern, you need to do more than FORMAT. You need to use one of the programs that write garbage to *every* disk sector. Tools to recover data from accidentally formatted disks have been around as long as DOS has. bs __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
