Re: [Freedos-user] De-Geekifying This List (Was: Some Simple List Rules)
Hello Mike, Thanks for writing and expressing your opinion. In fact, I think you brought an interesting topic that is also of my concern. When the freedos-user list was created, it was indeed created as a list for those users that need not have knowledge about the internals of FreeDOS itself in order to use it. So far, the facts that I have experienced are: (a) Much of the traffic has switched from freedos-devel to freedos-user. In some cases it is a correct movement, as we could seldomly see that inexperienced users asked simple FreeDOS ussage question in a list that was supposed to be to discuss internalities of FreeDOS development. (b) At times, the replies are quite technical or advanced (or "geek"), far more than the original question. At times I have tried in the past to move those to the freedos-devel, but that proved to be helpless. (c) In most times, a simple question produced a complex/geek answer, but was appropriate to the geekness level that the person who asked expected. (d) At times, a simple question produced a complex/geek answer, that the person who asked did not understand, but didn't dare/bother to ask for more help. In the understanding that there should be a chance for both types of users, I propose the following two options: just let me know what you think, and I'll run the administrative stuff: (1) Create a new mailing list called "freedos-advanced" aimed to the advanced users, and leave this one for the basic users. (2) Create a new mailing list called "freedos-basic" aimed to the basic users, and leave this one for the advanced users. In both cases, I should advise that, (a) in the basic users list, technicalities should be left appart as much as possible, in the understanding that the user there must not necessarily be an IT-PC-super-expert. (b) if a user expects a more detailed answer on certain topic, (s)he should turn to the advanced list and ask there. The traffic should not change, as it's just more a question of knowing the degree of detail that the user needs. And freedos-devel is not changed/affected in any way. Cheers, Aitor 2009/6/21 Mike Webb : >> > From: Pat Villani >> > Subject: [Freedos-user] Some simple list rules >> > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:46 AM >> > >> > 1. Please remember that this is a users mailing list. >> > Many of these folks are non technical and may not under- >> > stand the ramifications of what they are asking for. > > Pat, as a person who's been following this list for some time, I'm not > sure that the purpose you've mentioned is being adhered to all that > well. I have been a power user since the days when DOS was cool, and a > lot of the posts still go over my head like a roof. Discussions of > compiling, listings of scripts (config.sys settings?) that are far > more complicated than I've ever used and many more things give me the > impression that this is much more of a Freedos-Geeks list than a > Freedos-User list. > > I just went to the Freedos site, the Wiki and the How-To pages and am > still about as baffled as to how to make Freedos work for me as I have > been all along. > > The impression I have (despite the statement that Freedos can pretty > much run any software designed for MS-DOS) is that the kind of system > I used as a 100% DOS user would not work, but requires a lot more > stuff in the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. Let me give as an example a > basic CONFIG/AUTOEXEC setup for MS-DOS (5.x and higher); > > CONFIG.SYS: > device=HIMEM.SYS > device=EMM386.EXE > files=40 > buffers=40 > devicehigh=NANSI.SYS > > AUTOEXEC.BAT: > @echo off > cls > prompt $p$g > path=C:\;C:\DOS;C:\BAT;C:\UTIL > lh SMARTDRV.EXE 2048 > cls > c: > cd \ > ver > > (I've probably forgotten something; it's been quite awhile since I've > written these files from scratch; or tinkered with them at all, for > that matter.) > > I found nothing in the HOWTOs on the order of "Freedos for Dummies" or > "Freedos for experienced MS-DOS Users." I honestly don't know what I > could reasonably expect to do in a Freedos environment, using this > configuration that would work just fine in an MS-DOS environment. If > there are samples of basic CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files lurking > around, I can't readily find them. And if I can't find them, people > with even less knowledge aren't going to, either. > > I wish I could offer to pitch in on the kinds of things that I see are > needed, but it's beyond my reach at this time. Plus, considering all > the gobbledygook I read here, I'm not even sure where I'd begin. > > All I can say is that for Freedos' sake, whatever effort some of y'all > can make to set out a "welcome mat" that explains the differences > between MS-DOS and FreeDOS, particularly as far as configuration goes > and how to resolve issues involving common programs that don't quite > run "as-is" under Freedos would be very much appreciated, I believe. > > Thanks for "listening". > > -
Re: [Freedos-user] De-Geekifying This List (Was: Some Simple List Rules)
Since there seems to be a sort of democratic process emerging on the direction of FreeDOS, I suppose I should at least state my opinion. I use FreeDOS for what it doesn't have, like: no multi-tasking to grab the CPU for housekeeping while I want it concentrating on business. or that I can turn off, like a GUI. I do want it to run on pretty much any old PC and the fact that the latest version won't play with my Borland compiler has made life somewhat difficult. I don't want to have to port all that C and assembler code to another system if I don't have to (a lot of it depends upon Borland library functions). FreeDOS has allowed me to keep running and devising human performance tests on PCs that are the equal of (and in some cases, superior to) very expensive software that runs on Windows and similar OSs. It allows me to do things like turn a parallel port into a poor man's digital I/O port that runs so fast that I have had to slow it down for some external hardware. I really appreciate the tremendous amount of work that people have contributed to FreeDOS. Just a vote for simplicity and reliability. Jim -- Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference! Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250. Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;215844324;13503038;v?http://opensourcebridge.org ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] De-Geekifying This List (Was: Some Simple List Rules)
Hi Mike, you are right that config / autoexec often differ from what you are used to from MS DOS, among other reasons just because we now have newer and other drivers :-). > CONFIG.SYS: > device=HIMEM.SYS Try Himem.exe, or better Himemx.exe... You also need a line DOS=HIGH,UMB > device=EMM386.EXE Try JEMM386.exe, but be aware that modern hardware and BIOSes often fail to flag unusable UMB areas properly, so you get a more stable system by omitting EMM386 until you find the time to check which areas can be used reliably for UMB and EMS... You can add a line DOSDATA=UMB if you want. > files=40 > buffers=40 > devicehigh=NANSI.SYS I would also add: LASTDRIVE=Z and DEVICEHIGH=MORESYS.SYS The latter is a blatant add for a tool which lets you do for example "tree >more$" instead of "tree | more" ;-). I also use STACKS=0,0 as that is stable enough for me. Do not forget to add a SHELL line, for example: SHELL=c:\fdos\bin\command.com c:\fdos\bin /e:1024 /p=c:\myexec.bat (you can also use /P without the =... for default: autoexec.bat) > AUTOEXEC.BAT: > @echo off > cls > prompt $p$g > path=C:\;C:\DOS;C:\BAT;C:\UTIL You should not put C:\ in the path, you probably have no useful programs there. FreeDOS typically installs programs into c:\freedos\bin or c:\fdos\bin :-). > lh SMARTDRV.EXE 2048 Try LH LBACACHE.COM 2048 TUNS (or use more RAM, of course). > cls > c: > cd \ You can combine the latter two into a line CDD C:\ in FreeDOS. > ver Let me see what else you can have... You may want to load MKEYB or KEYB, maybe even use DISPLAY and MODE, if your hardware and language are not plain English. You can SET DOSDIR=c:\fdos (or freedos) and also SET HELPPATH=%dosdir%\help ... If you want, you can say SET LANG=FR and SET NLSPATH=%dosdir%\nls to use other languages than English. You often want to say SET TMP=c:\temp and SET TEMP=c:\temp :-). For CD/DVD, you will typically load UIDE in config sys and load SHSUCDX in autoexec bat. Actually you can even mount ISO image files with SHSUCDHD :-). I also recommend LH FDAPM APMDOS to save some energy in DOS. Optionally add LH IDLEDPMS 10 for DPMS screen saver. A mouse driver such as CTMOUSE can be useful, too... Eric PS: Feel free to make a Wiki page about the config :-) -- Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference! Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250. Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;215844324;13503038;v?http://opensourcebridge.org ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] De-Geekifying This List (Was: Some Simple List Rules)
> > From: Pat Villani > > Subject: [Freedos-user] Some simple list rules > > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:46 AM > > > > 1. Please remember that this is a users mailing list. > > Many of these folks are non technical and may not under- > > stand the ramifications of what they are asking for. Pat, as a person who's been following this list for some time, I'm not sure that the purpose you've mentioned is being adhered to all that well. I have been a power user since the days when DOS was cool, and a lot of the posts still go over my head like a roof. Discussions of compiling, listings of scripts (config.sys settings?) that are far more complicated than I've ever used and many more things give me the impression that this is much more of a Freedos-Geeks list than a Freedos-User list. I just went to the Freedos site, the Wiki and the How-To pages and am still about as baffled as to how to make Freedos work for me as I have been all along. The impression I have (despite the statement that Freedos can pretty much run any software designed for MS-DOS) is that the kind of system I used as a 100% DOS user would not work, but requires a lot more stuff in the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. Let me give as an example a basic CONFIG/AUTOEXEC setup for MS-DOS (5.x and higher); CONFIG.SYS: device=HIMEM.SYS device=EMM386.EXE files=40 buffers=40 devicehigh=NANSI.SYS AUTOEXEC.BAT: @echo off cls prompt $p$g path=C:\;C:\DOS;C:\BAT;C:\UTIL lh SMARTDRV.EXE 2048 cls c: cd \ ver (I've probably forgotten something; it's been quite awhile since I've written these files from scratch; or tinkered with them at all, for that matter.) I found nothing in the HOWTOs on the order of "Freedos for Dummies" or "Freedos for experienced MS-DOS Users." I honestly don't know what I could reasonably expect to do in a Freedos environment, using this configuration that would work just fine in an MS-DOS environment. If there are samples of basic CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files lurking around, I can't readily find them. And if I can't find them, people with even less knowledge aren't going to, either. I wish I could offer to pitch in on the kinds of things that I see are needed, but it's beyond my reach at this time. Plus, considering all the gobbledygook I read here, I'm not even sure where I'd begin. All I can say is that for Freedos' sake, whatever effort some of y'all can make to set out a "welcome mat" that explains the differences between MS-DOS and FreeDOS, particularly as far as configuration goes and how to resolve issues involving common programs that don't quite run "as-is" under Freedos would be very much appreciated, I believe. Thanks for "listening". -- Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference! Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250. Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today! http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;215844324;13503038;v?http://opensourcebridge.org ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
