Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Ralf Quint]

On 12/10/2013 5:40 PM, Robert Moler wrote:
This box has what looks like it may have been a tag on top at the 
back.  There's just some stuck paper there now as if something has 
been removed.  On the back there is a bar code tag with D711D7 in the 
middle of it.
That's one character short, the S/T is always 7 characters long. It 
should also be displayed in the BIOS itself...


Ralf


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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Robert Moler]

On 12/10/2013 7:20 PM, Ralf Quint wrote:

On 12/10/2013 4:14 PM, Robert Moler wrote:
The Bios on the Dell machine clearly offers USB as a boot option.  I 
made a bootable USB stick with FreeDos on it using _*RUFUS*_ which 
was suggested by someone earlier.  It did appear to have gotten most 
of the way through the cold boot process before it halted.  I don't 
know what a service tag is since, except for that particular machine, 
I've assembled from scratch every PC we've every had since 1986.  The 
Dell apparently originally ran MS Vista.


Each and every Dell computer has a unique service tag which identifies 
it (as in being able to look up it's exact specs and drivers), usually 
on a sticker in the back (or back of the top) of the machine, 
sometimes together with the "Express Service Code" (ESC), which does 
not really have a use)
My wife's computer is also running Win 7 (32 bit) and I tried 
VirtualBox.  Again I could not get FreeDos to install and load.
I am running FreeDOS in VirtualBox on Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit just 
fine


Ralf
This box has what looks like it may have been a tag on top at the back.  
There's just some stuck paper there now as if something has been 
removed.  On the back there is a bar code tag with D711D7 in the middle 
of it.




   

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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Ralf Quint]

On 12/10/2013 4:14 PM, Robert Moler wrote:
The Bios on the Dell machine clearly offers USB as a boot option. I 
made a bootable USB stick with FreeDos on it using _*RUFUS*_ which was 
suggested by someone earlier.  It did appear to have gotten most of 
the way through the cold boot process before it halted.  I don't know 
what a service tag is since, except for that particular machine, I've 
assembled from scratch every PC we've every had since 1986.  The Dell 
apparently originally ran MS Vista.


Each and every Dell computer has a unique service tag which identifies 
it (as in being able to look up it's exact specs and drivers), usually 
on a sticker in the back (or back of the top) of the machine, sometimes 
together with the "Express Service Code" (ESC), which does not really 
have a use)
My wife's computer is also running Win 7 (32 bit) and I tried 
VirtualBox.  Again I could not get FreeDos to install and load.

I am running FreeDOS in VirtualBox on Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit just fine

Ralf


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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Robert Moler]

On 12/10/2013 5:00 PM, Ralf Quint wrote:

On 12/10/2013 6:41 AM, Robert Moler wrote:

I wasn't being clear enough about what I've been trying to do.

The XT machine has 2 GB of RAM.  It is a 32 bit machine.

An XT, as in "PC XT" can neither be a 32bit machine nor have 2GB of RAM.
Using this term here is what is leading to confusion...

Arg!  XP, it has XP as the operating system.

I thought I could load 32 bit Ubuntu and make it a dual boot machine.  There is 
some
hangup in the video card, because beyond the B&W opening screen asking
me about doing a trial installation, I never got a screen again other
than a few lines of diagnostics.

As far as FreeDOS (or any other DOS for that matter) is concerned, the
video card in use is of no real concern, as long as it displays anything at all.
There would be not point in loading FreeDos on the Win XP machine. It 
run my old DOS program just fine.

I also have a second XT (XP not XT) machine, older still that I plan to give 
away.  Ubuntu (32 bit) opened just fine in the
trial mode on it.  I kept it around out of nostalgia more than anything
else.  The C: drive on it is only 15 GB (how old is that?) and clogged.

Again, not an "XT" machine, not sure why you call it that way...

My "new" machine is a refurbished 64 bit DELL running Win 7 Home Premium
(2 GB of RAM).  That is the machine that hangs when I try to install
FreeDos either through VirtualBox or booting from a USB stick.  The
evidence, such as it is, suggests that it is the UIDE that is the problem

DOS doesn't really know about USB or booting of a USB drive, the BIOS of
the machine (or an early loaded driver) would have to mask this in a way
that it fits what DOS can see and understand as bootable drives. And of
course, the host PC needs to be able to boot of a USB device in the
first place. What is the service tag of that machine, as you say it is a
Dell?

Ralf
The Bios on the Dell machine clearly offers USB as a boot option.  I 
made a bootable USB stick with FreeDos on it using _*RUFUS*_ which was 
suggested by someone earlier.  It did appear to have gotten most of the 
way through the cold boot process before it halted.  I don't know what a 
service tag is since, except for that particular machine, I've assembled 
from scratch every PC we've every had since 1986.  The Dell apparently 
originally ran MS Vista.


My wife's computer is also running Win 7 (32 bit) and I tried 
VirtualBox.  Again I could not get FreeDos to install and load.


I think it is about time for me to stop wasting you good people's time 
and throw in the towel.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Ralf Quint]

On 12/10/2013 6:41 AM, Robert Moler wrote:
> I wasn't being clear enough about what I've been trying to do.
>
> The XT machine has 2 GB of RAM.  It is a 32 bit machine.
An XT, as in "PC XT" can neither be a 32bit machine nor have 2GB of RAM. 
Using this term here is what is leading to confusion...
> I thought I could load 32 bit Ubuntu and make it a dual boot machine.  There 
> is some
> hangup in the video card, because beyond the B&W opening screen asking
> me about doing a trial installation, I never got a screen again other
> than a few lines of diagnostics.
As far as FreeDOS (or any other DOS for that matter) is concerned, the 
video card in use is of no real concern, as long as it displays anything 
at all.
> I also have a second XT machine, older still that I plan to give away.  
> Ubuntu (32 bit) opened just fine in the
> trial mode on it.  I kept it around out of nostalgia more than anything
> else.  The C: drive on it is only 15 GB (how old is that?) and clogged.
Again, not an "XT" machine, not sure why you call it that way...
> My "new" machine is a refurbished 64 bit DELL running Win 7 Home Premium
> (2 GB of RAM).  That is the machine that hangs when I try to install
> FreeDos either through VirtualBox or booting from a USB stick.  The
> evidence, such as it is, suggests that it is the UIDE that is the problem
DOS doesn't really know about USB or booting of a USB drive, the BIOS of 
the machine (or an early loaded driver) would have to mask this in a way 
that it fits what DOS can see and understand as bootable drives. And of 
course, the host PC needs to be able to boot of a USB device in the 
first place. What is the service tag of that machine, as you say it is a 
Dell?

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Robert Moler]

I wasn't being clear enough about what I've been trying to do.

The XT machine has 2 GB of RAM.  It is a 32 bit machine.  I thought I 
could load 32 bit Ubuntu and make it a dual boot machine.  There is some 
hangup in the video card, because beyond the B&W opening screen asking 
me about doing a trial installation, I never got a screen again other 
than a few lines of diagnostics.  I also have a second XT machine, older 
still that I plan to give away.  Ubuntu (32 bit) opened just fine in the 
trial mode on it.  I kept it around out of nostalgia more than anything 
else.  The C: drive on it is only 15 GB (how old is that?) and clogged.

My "new" machine is a refurbished 64 bit DELL running Win 7 Home Premium 
(2 GB of RAM).  That is the machine that hangs when I try to install 
FreeDos either through VirtualBox or booting from a USB stick.  The 
evidence, such as it is, suggests that it is the UIDE that is the problem

On 12/10/2013 3:53 AM, Eric Auer wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> as far as I remember, XT machines are 16 bit, so Ubuntu
> cannot run on that processor and on that amount of RAM.
> Regarding FreeDOS, I am not sure whether you tried to
> install it from the USB stick to the USB stick or to
> the harddisk of the computer: Some BIOSes make sticks
> look as if they were harddisks... For older computers,
> I would recommend to use boot floppy images to make a
> boot floppy. What exactly was the situation in the 3rd
> attempt, when Virtual Box was hanging? As far as the
> graphics card is concerned, any VGA card should be ok
> but I am not sure whether older cards are, as there
> might be "graphical" steps during installation. The
> floppy way again is more suitable for older hardware.
>
> Partitioning / formatting are among the steps where
> things can go wrong (see USB stick thing above) as
> are modern drivers (USB, UIDE, network, graphics and
> memory extensions a la EMM386 or HIMEM). For those,
> you may have to manually edit autoexec or config to
> adjust for very old or very new computers. I assume
> working directly from floppy / USB can avoid some of
> the driver issues. In particular if you can skip the
> driver load step at boot. Of course performance etc
> would be better once installed to harddisk, but for
> some tasks, it might just not be worth the effort.
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Eric Auer]

Hi Robert,

as far as I remember, XT machines are 16 bit, so Ubuntu
cannot run on that processor and on that amount of RAM.
Regarding FreeDOS, I am not sure whether you tried to
install it from the USB stick to the USB stick or to
the harddisk of the computer: Some BIOSes make sticks
look as if they were harddisks... For older computers,
I would recommend to use boot floppy images to make a
boot floppy. What exactly was the situation in the 3rd
attempt, when Virtual Box was hanging? As far as the
graphics card is concerned, any VGA card should be ok
but I am not sure whether older cards are, as there
might be "graphical" steps during installation. The
floppy way again is more suitable for older hardware.

Partitioning / formatting are among the steps where
things can go wrong (see USB stick thing above) as
are modern drivers (USB, UIDE, network, graphics and
memory extensions a la EMM386 or HIMEM). For those,
you may have to manually edit autoexec or config to
adjust for very old or very new computers. I assume
working directly from floppy / USB can avoid some of
the driver issues. In particular if you can skip the
driver load step at boot. Of course performance etc
would be better once installed to harddisk, but for
some tasks, it might just not be worth the effort.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Robert Moler]

I checked the computer bios before I made a bootable USB stick.  In the 
boot order list, there is a boot from USB line already checked. I simply 
moved it to the top of the list.  I'm quite sure the computer will boot 
from a USB stick.

It clearly did start the boot process and I got the screen where FreeDos 
ask if I want to create drive C: (on the stick I think.  I'm a novice at 
this and there are plenty of rather cryptic questions for which I'm 
guessing the answer.)  Several screens later it halted.  I think it may 
be the same place it halted when I tried to load it in VirtualBox.

I've spent too much time with this already.  (I don't have that much 
time left at 80 years old.  My experience is writing a fission decay 
program in Fortran II for an IBM 704 computer.  Bloody damn hard even 
when I was only 35.)  It's possible that my download of FreeDos got 
corrupted, so I'll download it again and repeat the process.

I also tried to duel boot my old XT machine with Ubuntu (32 bit variety) 
and there I have the idea that the video card that I installed many 
years ago is the culprit, so I'm going to update it and see what happens.

I may try that game DOS as well.

Tough to keep up with an information doubling time of 2 years. (Same 
equation as radioactive decay except for the minus sign.)



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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Robert Moler  wrote:
>
> I was delighted to discover FreeDos, because I have an old Music DOS
> data base that I've been using since 1986.  It runs in XP but not in Win
> 7.  So I loaded the virtual box and then FreeDos. except that it never
> finished loading after reaching the point in the instructions (End of
> Chapter Five)  where there is the warning about UIDE taking a long time
> to load.
>
> I get the line
>
> Kernel:  allocated 46 Diskbuffers + 24472 Bytes in HMA
>
> It had not changed in 45 minutes or even over night when I started over
> and got the same result.
>
> Any suggestions?

VirtualBox is overkill, but if you have VT-X, enable it (if not already).

Try running DOSBox (emulator, see http://www.dosbox.com ). Normally
it's only for games, but since you say you've been using it since
1986, it shouldn't be too complex a program.

Otherwise, dunno, try using RUFUS to install FreeDOS to (empty!) USB
stick, and see if it runs natively there (cold boot). If even that
doesn't work, I dunno.

(I'm hesitant to recommend installing Linux under VBox just for DOSEMU.)

P.S. Latest UIDE is
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/ellis/drivers-2013-11-21.zip
(but you may have to enable networking in FreeDOS under VBox to grab
that directly, e.g. use "ftp ftp.ibiblio..." instead). See
http://lazybrowndog.net/freedos/virtualbox/ .

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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Mark Brown]

the new virtualbox and the new uide don't do that.
someone can show you where the new (uide) drivers are.


 

eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com





On Saturday, December 7, 2013 5:47 PM, Robert Moler  wrote:
 
I was delighted to discover FreeDos, because I have an old Music DOS 
>data base that I've been using since 1986.  It runs in XP but not in Win 
>7.  So I loaded the virtual box and then FreeDos. except that it never 
>finished loading after reaching the point in the instructions (End of 
>Chapter Five)  where there is the warning about UIDE taking a long time 
>to load.
>
>I get the line
>
>Kernel:  allocated 46 Diskbuffers + 24472 Bytes in HMA
>
>It had not changed in 45 minutes or even over night when I started over 
>and got the same result.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Bob Moler
>
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[Freedos-user] Freedos hangs

[Robert Moler]

I was delighted to discover FreeDos, because I have an old Music DOS 
data base that I've been using since 1986.  It runs in XP but not in Win 
7.  So I loaded the virtual box and then FreeDos. except that it never 
finished loading after reaching the point in the instructions (End of 
Chapter Five)  where there is the warning about UIDE taking a long time 
to load.

I get the line

Kernel:  allocated 46 Diskbuffers + 24472 Bytes in HMA

It had not changed in 45 minutes or even over night when I started over 
and got the same result.

Any suggestions?

Bob Moler

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