Re: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
Just to complement: A DOS in 16 bit only + a pure 16bit program can access FAT32 systems. This happens a lot. > You cannot use the full 4 GB because all PCI, AGP, > PCIe etc modern graphics cards have their graphics > RAM accessible via addresses in the last 0.X of the > first 4 gigabytes of address space... The BIOS and > various parts of your hardware use the same area. There is a problem about the MSB of the address most of the time used as a flag. This usuali limits usage to 2Gb. >>> and how much can be accessed with djgpp installed > You do NOT need djgpp. Only a DPMI host. I usually > copy cwsdpmi exe into my main FreeDOS BIN directory. And.. there are many others, that do the same job. djgpp *usualy* is used with cwsdpmi, other compilers have other preferences. All work just fine, usualy you have a "tiny" pure 32 bit program with 2Gb access range. Alain -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
> I let File system specialists rectify or detail if not right Of course ;-) 1) Though advertised as FAT32, it doesn't really use 32 bits for cluster numbers. Though each FAT entry is a DWord (32-bit number), the filesystem only uses 28 of these bits. However this is a detail most people don't know and don't need to know either. 2) The method used to store long filenames (LFNs) works on all FAT filesystems. For example you can use LFNs on floppy disks (FAT12) as well. A technical detail: There's no specific field for LFNs. The LFN driver stores the long filename in (depending on the length) one or multiple directory entries of the normal DOS directory that are marked as invalid. This is the reason that your FAT12 or FAT16 root directory might be full with less files and directories than should actually fit. The LFNs use some of the directory entries. Christian -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
Hi! >> can run any 32 bit console app? What do you call 32 bit console app? If you mean "Windows 32 bit text mode program" then the HX DOS extender might help you, because it also has some built-in Windows-like services to make apps made for Windows happy. While some people think "if it is text mode, it is DOS", Win32 text mode programs do not run normally in un-extended DOS. >> In fact, how much ram can freedos access? >> I have usually tended to also include djgpp >> in a freedos install; djgpp includes cwsdpmi, >> etc. and provides an environment that can run >> 32 bit apps. DJGPP is only a compiler. You do not need it to run 32 bit apps. Neither do you need to install Microsoft Visual C to run Windows ;-) The only thing you need to run apps compiled with the help of DJGPP is a DPMI host (sort of a subset of a DOS extender if you want). The standard DPMI host of DJGPP is CWSDPMI, which is ca 20 kilobytes small. You can even put the host inside the app if you think having a separate CWSDPMI EXE is ugly... Then of course each 32 bit EXE is 20 kB larger ;-). >> So, without djgpp in the picture, >> how much ram can freedos access, The FreeDOS kernel only cares for the first ca 1 MB, so everything else is free for your apps... If you do not want to use DJGPP, you can use any other 32 bit aware compiler for any programming language... With typical DOS extenders like CWSDPMI, DOS4GW, DOS32A etc, apps compiled with DJGPP or Open Watcom C or similar compilers can use up to 2 or 3.X GB of RAM. You cannot use the full 4 GB because all PCI, AGP, PCIe etc modern graphics cards have their graphics RAM accessible via addresses in the last 0.X of the first 4 gigabytes of address space... The BIOS and various parts of your hardware use the same area. >> and how much can be accessed with djgpp installed You do NOT need djgpp. Only a DPMI host. I usually copy cwsdpmi exe into my main FreeDOS BIN directory. Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
Hi, FAT32 has no relation with the binary type, it is simply a Fat file system where file pointers are encoded on 32 Bits words, this allowing the addressing of a larger space on disk ( I let File system specialists rectify or detail if not right) The Fat 32 also has the specificity to allow the use of a specifc field to encode a long name for each file So Fat 32 support by freedos does not mean that it could run win32 console app... even if in fact freedos could run a subset of them, provided you use the Japheth's HX dos extender (one old version being bundled with freedos distro) www.japheth.de/HX.html (the full version even has a basic gui app support, requiring a LFB compatible videocard (so you must avoid i810 chipsets)) Selon Michael Reichenbach : > kurt godel schrieb: > > I am somewhat confused. Freedos runs on fat32; does this mean that freedos > > can run any 32 bit console app? > > Many answers already. Like said FAT16 or FAT32 are just filesystems, > them have nothing to do with which kind of binarys you can run. > > FreeDOS can run 16 bit DOS applications, 32 bit DOS applications and > with help of HX DOS Extender also some win32 console applications can > run on FreeDOS. Look at > http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.HX-DOS > > -mr > > > In fact, how much ram can freedos access? I have usually tended to also > > include djgpp in a freedos install; > > djgpp includes cwsdpmi,etc., and provides an environment that can run 32 > bit > > apps. I never thought about > > the 'stock' freedos(if it even has dpmi by itself). This was prompted by > > recent mention of the dos hx extender. > > So, without djgpp in the picture, how much ram can freedos access, and how > > much can be accessed with > > djgpp installed(at least when running from djgpp's bin directory)?. tnx, > > kurt . > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with > Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code > to > > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of > local > > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK > and > > Ajax docs to start building applications > today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Freedos-user mailing list > > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of > local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
kurt godel schrieb: > I am somewhat confused. Freedos runs on fat32; does this mean that freedos > can run any 32 bit console app? Many answers already. Like said FAT16 or FAT32 are just filesystems, them have nothing to do with which kind of binarys you can run. FreeDOS can run 16 bit DOS applications, 32 bit DOS applications and with help of HX DOS Extender also some win32 console applications can run on FreeDOS. Look at http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.HX-DOS -mr > In fact, how much ram can freedos access? I have usually tended to also > include djgpp in a freedos install; > djgpp includes cwsdpmi,etc., and provides an environment that can run 32 bit > apps. I never thought about > the 'stock' freedos(if it even has dpmi by itself). This was prompted by > recent mention of the dos hx extender. > So, without djgpp in the picture, how much ram can freedos access, and how > much can be accessed with > djgpp installed(at least when running from djgpp's bin directory)?. tnx, > kurt . > > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
> I am somewhat confused. Freedos runs on fat32; does this mean that > freedos > can run any 32 bit console app? No. The "32" in FAT32 refers to some data format on the disk; FAT32 support doesn't require a 32-bit operating system. > In fact, how much ram can freedos access? I have usually tended to also > include djgpp in a freedos install; > djgpp includes cwsdpmi,etc., and provides an environment that can run 32 > bit > apps. I never thought about > the 'stock' freedos(if it even has dpmi by itself). If you remove both the HDPMI and CWSDPMI programs, FreeDOS doesn't provide DPMI. (The actual FreeDOS kernel (KERNEL.SYS) doesn't know anything about protected mode.) > This was prompted by > recent mention of the dos hx extender. > So, without djgpp in the picture, how much ram can freedos access, Depends whether you're talking about only KERNEL.SYS or the kernel plus XMM (HIMEM.EXE) and probably EMM (EMM386.EXE). The kernel itself accesses only real mode memory, the first binary Megabyte. XMMs and EMMs provide ways for real mode (16-bit) DOS software to access memory up to 64, 256, 512 or 4096 binary Megabyte (value depends on the driver) but for data storage only. > and how much can be accessed with > djgpp installed(at least when running from djgpp's bin directory)?. DJGPP uses a DPMI server. The DPMI server usually accesses memory using the XMM or EMM. Thus DJGPP can usually access as much memory as real mode DOS software that uses the XMM or EMM. However by using DPMI this memory can be used as storage for both data and code. Christian -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
> -Original Message- > From: kurt godel [mailto:wb2...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:10 PM > To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: [Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc. > > I am somewhat confused. Freedos runs on fat32; does this mean > that freedos can run any 32 bit console app? The file system it uses on the HD (FAT32) is independent of the operating system. It is the OS that controls which apps can run on it. FreeDOS cannot directly run Win32 apps, but can run many 32-bit DOS apps. Somebody else will have to answer the RAM question. > In fact, how much ram can freedos access? I have usually > tended to also include djgpp in a freedos install; djgpp > includes cwsdpmi,etc., and provides an environment that can > run 32 bit apps. I never thought about the 'stock' freedos(if > it even has dpmi by itself). This was prompted by recent > mention of the dos hx extender. > So, without djgpp in the picture, how much ram can freedos > access, and how much can be accessed with djgpp installed(at > least when running from djgpp's bin directory)?. tnx, kurt > . > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] dos,hx,dpmi,etc.
I am somewhat confused. Freedos runs on fat32; does this mean that freedos can run any 32 bit console app? In fact, how much ram can freedos access? I have usually tended to also include djgpp in a freedos install; djgpp includes cwsdpmi,etc., and provides an environment that can run 32 bit apps. I never thought about the 'stock' freedos(if it even has dpmi by itself). This was prompted by recent mention of the dos hx extender. So, without djgpp in the picture, how much ram can freedos access, and how much can be accessed with djgpp installed(at least when running from djgpp's bin directory)?. tnx, kurt . -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
