Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
Hi, On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Bernd Blaauw wrote: > Op 7-6-2011 23:46, Rugxulo schreef: > >> VirtualBox may?? support USB booting (or at least reading) nowadays, >> but I've never bothered. > > My idea is indeed to find a boot environment for USB flash media, and > test the following: > * is USB seen as A: or C: My old 2007 laptop (now dead) wouldn't boot FreeDOS, or at least I never figured out how. But using a USB floppy drive (Sony), the BIOS did recognize a small 64 MB jump drive as C:\. > * can I boot it directly Maybe, maybe not. Dunno, probably depends on BIOS and how you make it. It may need an MBR, it may not, dunno. Probably have best luck using PLoP boot manager if normal method doesn't work. But very latest machines seem to support USB booting. > * can I boot DOS through Syslinux/Memdisk then load USB drivers (which > ones?!) and find ISO file on USB stick? Uh ... sounds complicated, so I dunno, just try it! ;-)Seriously, no idea. > Found your mentioned PLOP again this evening before your mail, gonna > test in VMware :) > Also gonna have a look at Johnson Lam's USB diskette again. Okay, tell us what you find out (if anything)! -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
Op 7-6-2011 23:46, Rugxulo schreef: > VirtualBox may?? support USB booting (or at least reading) nowadays, > but I've never bothered. My idea is indeed to find a boot environment for USB flash media, and test the following: * is USB seen as A: or C: * can I boot it directly * can I boot DOS through Syslinux/Memdisk then load USB drivers (which ones?!) and find ISO file on USB stick? Found your mentioned PLOP again this evening before your mail, gonna test in VMware :) Also gonna have a look at Johnson Lam's USB diskette again. thanks, Bernd -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
Hi, On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Bernd Blaauw wrote: > Op 7-6-2011 21:01, Mike Eriksen schreef: > > I've never managed to succesfully create & test any bootable USB flash > disc. I'm not aware of any emulation/virtualisation software supporting > USB booting for easy testing, and my motherboard or the USB > partitioning/formatting software doesn't cooperate. Your computer may be "too old" (loosely speaking) to support USB booting. My "old" P4 doesn't either, so I have to use PLoP bootdisk (floppy, but CD also works) to boot up the Puppy USB stick install. http://www.plop.at/ VirtualBox may?? support USB booting (or at least reading) nowadays, but I've never bothered. > This is very offtopic for FreeDOS I guess, but what I'm looking for is > copying Windows 7 installation files to harddisk with existing Windows 7 > on it, then put this harddisk in a new system and start installation > from harddisk with end result of having the operating system replacing > the previous one. No external installation medium/media involved. > Ofcourse buying a SATA DVD drive is slightly more convenient :) I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. I'm sure there's a way, but I'm no Windows guru. Starting with Vista and 7, I think you're allowed to install from USB (unlike XP which can be a pain or even almost impossible if your CD drive is borked). Besides, even if technically possible (most likely), if Windows detects that the hardware has changed too much, it'll complain, but perhaps installs are looser and/or you can just call them or enter the key or whatever. And don't forget Linux can read/write NTFS nowadays anyways, so you could always boot that temporarily to copy from wherever. I also did use Fedora's liveUSB installer recently, it works with my BIOS at least. (Of course, F15 has a persistence bug, so I jumped back to F14. And yes I'm using DOSEMU there. So there, this is on-topic!) https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
Op 7-6-2011 21:01, Mike Eriksen schreef: > If Linux counts as "a more powerful/modern" OS I yet haven't failed to > make a bootable USB key. It may require some brute force like wiping > the entire disk out with zeros and then start from scratch - > partitioning, putting on a MBR, formatting and eventually put Syslinux > on it. > > But for updating a BIOS (Free)DOS is fine unless you have one of those > new fancy boards. I've never managed to succesfully create & test any bootable USB flash disc. I'm not aware of any emulation/virtualisation software supporting USB booting for easy testing, and my motherboard or the USB partitioning/formatting software doesn't cooperate. This is very offtopic for FreeDOS I guess, but what I'm looking for is copying Windows 7 installation files to harddisk with existing Windows 7 on it, then put this harddisk in a new system and start installation from harddisk with end result of having the operating system replacing the previous one. No external installation medium/media involved. Ofcourse buying a SATA DVD drive is slightly more convenient :) -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Bernd Blaauw wrote: > The problem ofcourse is getting a more powerful/modern operating system > on a internet-connected yet stand-alone machine. Resorting to making USB > sticks bootable (any 100% way to do so?) and testing them, or getting > SATA optical drives is such a burden. If Linux counts as "a more powerful/modern" OS I yet haven't failed to make a bootable USB key. It may require some brute force like wiping the entire disk out with zeros and then start from scratch - partitioning, putting on a MBR, formatting and eventually put Syslinux on it. But for updating a BIOS (Free)DOS is fine unless you have one of those new fancy boards. Mike -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
Op 7-6-2011 20:05, Willi Wasser schreef: > I really didn't expect to trigger so much controversy with my initial > questions. And i found it interesting to learn that companies like HP and > DELL still offer DOS. But if one takes a closer look, it becomes soon clear, > that DOS for them is more like the "compact spare wheel" of modern cars than > a crucial part of the whole system. Even for those manufacturers one finds > when google-ing for "embedded DOS", the systems they still deliver with DOS > are the lower ends of their product lines with LINUX making up the upper end. > All this confirms my opinion that nowadays there ist not "much money inside > DOS" anymore. This doesn't necessarily degrade DOS as an operating system but > it should be taken into account whenever talking about licensing issues. > As Tom already mentioned, FreeDOS is usually included (typically on the support CD) as an 'in-your-face' towards Microsoft with their 'every PC has to be sold with an OS'. It might also be convenient on the boot CD as a means to create F6 disk for Windows, or for copying files or starting non-live backup programs. However with the move of motherboard companies as well as BIOS writers AMI and Award/Phoenix towards EFI/UEFI instead of BIOS, these practices will likely come to an end. On the bright side, it seems CoreBoot is starting to support more and more platforms (especially with AMD opening up support), with the effect of for example the Asrock M35 Fusion motherboard being able to run an opensource hardware initialisation platform. Add to that SeaBIOS (opensource BIOS, nowadays used by default in QEMU, likely also XEN in a while) and you have a DOS compatible platform again. Even better yet, a FreeDOS floppy image can be added to Coreboot/SeaBIOS, which means you're running a platform with embedded (rescue) operating system in 4 megabytes (32mbit) flash chip. The problem ofcourse is getting a more powerful/modern operating system on a internet-connected yet stand-alone machine. Resorting to making USB sticks bootable (any 100% way to do so?) and testing them, or getting SATA optical drives is such a burden. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
On Jue 02 Jun 2011 03:42:04 Willi Wasser escribió: > > Some developers may not be too happy > > about the license choice, especially > > those who would like to grab your code > > and try to make money from it by making > > it part of an unfree software. > > Let's be serious! Is there still a market for any kind of DOS out there? > Does it have any commercial value out there? Can you still make such an > amount of money with it, that it's worth to struggle about licensing > issues? Backward compatibility. In some places wich I am doing maintainance, they want to keep they old-but useful-and-rock-solid software. It runs in DOS. In my case, I'm using it with dosemu in Linux, but it clearly has made my life quite happy, as I don't have to fight with Windows issues. -- "Los promotores del software privativo demonizan algo tan básico y ético como el hecho de compartir imponiendo términos como el de 'pirata'. Equiparan ayudar al prójimo con atacar barcos. Cuando me preguntan qué pienso de la piratería musical e informática digo que atacar barcos es muy malo y, que yo sepa, los piratas no usan computadoras.” Richard Stallman, 05/11/2008, anexo de la Cámara de Diputados, Argentina Lisandro Damián Nicanor Pérez Meyer http://perezmeyer.com.ar/ http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011, Michael B. Brutman wrote: > On 6/2/2011 1:42 AM, Willi Wasser wrote: >>> Some developers may not be too happy >>> about the license choice, especially >>> those who would like to grab your code >>> and try to make money from it by making >>> it part of an unfree software. >> Let's be serious! Is there still a market for any kind of DOS out there? >> Does it have any commercial value out there? Can you still make such an >> amount of money with it, that it's worth to struggle about licensing issues? >> >> For me it's a hobby. A little bit like those poeple who still operate steam >> railways nowadays. And it may be an attempt to show "the world" how else >> computers could be and that there is a difference between "technical >> progress" and the "latest fashion". Many of my programs are such that i >> should have written them fifteen years ago but i didn't back then due to >> various reasons. I am really not afraid that someone else could get rich >> with my software, my experience is rather that nobody really cares. So what? > > I've had some commercial inquiries into mTCP in the last two years. DOS > is out there and there are people still supporting it. Obviously not in > large corporations, but it is out there. > > Networking is particularly interesting now with broadband connections > being more widespread. Why use modems and dialup when you can transfer > data much faster and more reliably with FTP? I'm seeing a small > movement toward people FTPing data from store locations to a central > location instead of using modems. > > Like you, for me it is a hobby ... hobbyists are my first priority. I've taken several gigs servicing video kiosks in physicians' offices. These things consist of an LCD video display hung on the wall with a PC screwed to the back. They use a POTS modem to call in and update themselves rather than use the office's network. They share the fax line. -- David Griffith dgri...@cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
On 6/2/2011 1:42 AM, Willi Wasser wrote: >> Some developers may not be too happy >> about the license choice, especially >> those who would like to grab your code >> and try to make money from it by making >> it part of an unfree software. > Let's be serious! Is there still a market for any kind of DOS out there? Does > it have any commercial value out there? Can you still make such an amount of > money with it, that it's worth to struggle about licensing issues? > > For me it's a hobby. A little bit like those poeple who still operate steam > railways nowadays. And it may be an attempt to show "the world" how else > computers could be and that there is a difference between "technical > progress" and the "latest fashion". Many of my programs are such that i > should have written them fifteen years ago but i didn't back then due to > various reasons. I am really not afraid that someone else could get rich with > my software, my experience is rather that nobody really cares. So what? I've had some commercial inquiries into mTCP in the last two years. DOS is out there and there are people still supporting it. Obviously not in large corporations, but it is out there. Networking is particularly interesting now with broadband connections being more widespread. Why use modems and dialup when you can transfer data much faster and more reliably with FTP? I'm seeing a small movement toward people FTPing data from store locations to a central location instead of using modems. Like you, for me it is a hobby ... hobbyists are my first priority. Mike -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Bret Johnson wrote: >> Just the other day, I saw a cash register that was clearly running a >> DOS interface. So yes, DOS is still around. Maybe you don't see it as >> often as a plain desktop user interface, but it's there. > > You'd probably be amazed at how many embedded and industrial control systems > are based on DOS. > Not surprised at all! DOS is a great platform for embedded systems. I've been doing DOS for a while now. :-) -jh -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
> Just the other day, I saw a cash register that was clearly running a > DOS interface. So yes, DOS is still around. Maybe you don't see it as > often as a plain desktop user interface, but it's there. You'd probably be amazed at how many embedded and industrial control systems are based on DOS. -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Discover what all the cheering's about. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-dev2dev2 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
> > I've seen a lot of drive-through video screens using DOS in some form or > another. > Just the other day, I saw a cash register that was clearly running a DOS interface. So yes, DOS is still around. Maybe you don't see it as often as a plain desktop user interface, but it's there. -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Licensing issues
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011, Willi Wasser wrote: >> Some developers may not be too happy >> about the license choice, especially >> those who would like to grab your code >> and try to make money from it by making >> it part of an unfree software. > > Let's be serious! Is there still a market for any kind of DOS out there? > Does it have any commercial value out there? Can you still make such an > amount of money with it, that it's worth to struggle about licensing > issues? > > For me it's a hobby. A little bit like those poeple who still operate > steam railways nowadays. And it may be an attempt to show "the world" > how else computers could be and that there is a difference between > "technical progress" and the "latest fashion". Many of my programs are > such that i should have written them fifteen years ago but i didn't back > then due to various reasons. I am really not afraid that someone else > could get rich with my software, my experience is rather that nobody > really cares. So what? I've seen a lot of drive-through video screens using DOS in some form or another. -- David Griffith dgri...@cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- Simplify data backup and recovery for your virtual environment with vRanger. Installation's a snap, and flexible recovery options mean your data is safe, secure and there when you need it. Data protection magic? Nope - It's vRanger. Get your free trial download today. http://p.sf.net/sfu/quest-sfdev2dev ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
