Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Mac User #330250]

Hi!

On 2018-04-19, 00:15, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> That’s the keyboard thing I was talking about. Kris is right, this keyboard 
> post-dates the G5’s, I’m pretty sure; in fact it postdates the very first 
> Intel 
> iMacs, as that was the machine on which I discovered the ‘no startup keys’ 
> issue.
>
> You’ll need to source an older USB keyboard for the times you need to apply 
> startup keys.

I have the strong impression that Apple went from an almost 100%
standard conform keyboard to a 100% Apple-specific in-house develpment.
At the beginning of the Millennium (from around 2000 to around 2006) the
Apple keyboards were manufactured by Mitsumi, and they were _real_ PC
keyboards with different names on the keys. With the one exception of
the Eject key, which was Apple-specific.

After that they changed everything (2007 came the new Apple Keyboard,
A1243).

I assume that Power Macs don't understand the newer keyboards correctly
and that Apple didn't test Open Firmware compatibility. They only tested
Mac OS X compatibility and since it worked there, they didn't bother any
further compatibility improvement.

Like Bruce and others already mentioned, my advice is also to either get
an older Apple keyboard, OR—and this might come as a surprise—to get a
standard PC USB keyboard instead. It should work 100%, with the only
exception that the key names will be switched (and the lack of an eject
key). In other words: Ctrl, Alt, Win i.e. Ctrl, Opt, Command (Apple-key)
will be switched.

If you look at the Wikipedia article "Apple Keyboard" and at the picture
of the Apple Pro Keyboard (M7803), you'll see that the sequence in the
lower left corner is 1. Ctrl, 2. Alt, 3. Apple/Command. Now look at a
standard PC/Windows keyboard and notice that there is another sequence:
1. Ctrl, 2. Win, 3. Alt.

If my memory is correct, then the keys are exactly the same, only the
label on the keys are changed. Therefore the Open Firmware and Mac OS X
will act on the second key, which is the Windows-key on a PC keyboard,
as if the Alt/Option key was pressed. And also for the third key, the
Apple/Command key, it will be the Alt key on a PC keyboard.

I used a PC keyboard on a Power Mac (G3, G4, G5) several times and it
worked like this, including the startup selection. All I had to do was
to hold the Windows key instead of the Option/Alt key...
Thinking of it, that's the only sick part: start a Mac and hold the
Windows key :-)


For completeness: those two Apple keyboards were designed for Power Macs:
1. Apple Pro Keyboard (M7803), from 2000
2. Apple Keyboard (A1048), from 2003

All other keyboards are either too old or too new for Power Macs.

For my purposes those two PC keyboards did the job:
* Dell USB keyboard KB212
* Logitech USB keyboard K120
but any other stardard USB keyboard will work as well.

When using a PC keyboard on a Power Mac, just remember:
* Win (Windows Logo) = Option/Alt
* Alt = Command/"Apple key" (Apple logo)
* look at the original Apple keyboard labels for all other keys. E.g. on
the german keyboard @ is on AltGr+L on an Apple keyboard, but on AltGr+Q
on a Windows keyboard. However, even when using the PC/Windows keyboard,
on a Mac it will always be AltGr+L...
* No eject key (some key combinations are affected)

Since the eject key is missing, shutdown by holding keys
Ctrt+Alt+Cmd+Eject won't work. I am unsure, but maybe this was also
possible with Ctrl+Alt+Cmd+F12...


I hope to have helped with this information,
Mac User #330250

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Bruce Johnson]

On Apr 18, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Jörg Duurkoop 
> wrote:

Hi Kris & everybody,

I actually use an original Apple aluminum keyboard that was sold together with 
the later G5s I assume. On the "Option" key it says "alt" and on the Dutch 
"wis" key it says "delete". So which is it? English, Aussie, Canadian? Not US I 
assume …

That’s the keyboard thing I was talking about. Kris is right, this keyboard 
post-dates the G5’s, I’m pretty sure; in fact it postdates the very first Intel 
iMacs, as that was the machine on which I discovered the ‘no startup keys’ 
issue.

You’ll need to source an older USB keyboard for the times you need to apply 
startup keys.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Kris Tilford]

On Apr 18, 2018, at 4:39 PM, Jörg Duurkoop  wrote:
> 
> I actually use an original Apple aluminum keyboard that was sold together 
> with the later G5s I assume.

The aluminum keyboard was introduced in 2007 after the G5, which came with the 
plastic Apple Pro keyboard.

There is a firmware update for the aluminum keyboard, but it may not help your 
problem, it was for repeated key input errors.

https://support.apple.com/kb/dl997?locale=en_US

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi Kris & everybody,

I actually use an original Apple aluminum keyboard that was sold together 
with the later G5s I assume. On the "Option" key it says "alt" and on the 
Dutch "wis" key it says "delete". So which is it? English, Aussie, 
Canadian? Not US I assume ...

Yes, I transplanted my G4 disks running Tiger to my G5. Installed some 
G5-specific tools, I'm now an official Apple developer and got them. I like 
the Processor tool, had it's predecessor on my G4. You can switch off & on 
the cores and see how hard they work. Amazing to see that Gmail and 
Facebook are real hogs. My quad is running all-out just to retrieve my mail 
or send messages on FB using TenFourFox. Again my heartfelt kudos for 
Cameron, you are a champion my man.

And the Temperature Monitor. This thingie shows the temp at 11 different 
spots in the Mac. Amazing. The pinnacle of Apple design IMO.

So how do I get the option back to chose a different startup disk? Don't 
tell me to "upgrade" to Leopard. I saw it on another G5 and hated it. Too 
dark, too obscure. It takes away a lot of control from the user, dumbing 
him down as it were. At least my first impression. A great feature was that 
I could clone my running startup disk to another drive. CCC on Tiger can't 
do that.

Another issue is that I cannot see my USB-sticks on the desktop anymore. 
Worked fine first but now I only see the SDs on my hubs.

I hope to hear of some magick to get this basic startup feature back. In 
the past it saved my day many times.

BTW, anything I should keep an eye on this machine? It's the latest edition 
of the G5, the revised fluid-cooled quadcore. It has seen some years of 
troublefree service and all the cores have similar temps, core 3 and 4 
running a bit warmer by 2 to 5 centigrades. Max. temp I reached yet was 70 
centigrades on core 4.

TIA for your helpful comments.

Kind regards, Jörg.

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Dana Collins]

Hello J org,
Glad you moved from a G4 to G5 - at first thought, if you have a spare
keyboard, swap it out to make sure it is not a keyboard issue, after that
plug the keyboard into a fresh USB port.
Are you using the old OS that was on the HDs when they were housed in the
G4, or did you put a fresh OS on the G5 (Leopard, for ex.). Finally, see if
your G5 has had the latest firmware installed.
These are just basic lcd (lowest common denominator) trouble-shooting items
that come to mind; after this its time to terminal.
Regards,
Dana


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Jörg Duurkoop <yaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi again,
>
> I got a good deal on the last edition of the G5 quadcore and it seems
> solid. The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt
> command when starting up. Normally you get the choice of startup disks
> available but now the G5 just ignores the Alt key and starts from the disk
> chosen in the system prefs. Can be a major PITA under certain circumstances.
>
> Anybody any idea what causes this? I replaced the PRAM battery although
> Everymac.com says "doesn't apply".
>
> TIA for your valuable comments.
>
> Jörg from the Netherlands.
>
>
>
> Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying
>> just another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz
>> DP card again and waiting for another failing power supply.
>>
>> I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
>> price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
>> Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
>> my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
>> I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.
>>
>> I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
>> simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
>> nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
>> SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
>> the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?
>>
>> The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
>> liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
>> transition. Thank you.
>>
>> Best regards, Jörg.
>>
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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Bruce Johnson]

If, by chance, you’re using a flat modern USB keyboard, that might be it. I had 
to keep an old style USB keyboard around to use with older Macs when I had to 
use the startup keys.

On Apr 17, 2018, at 2:24 PM, Jörg Duurkoop 
<yaw...@gmail.com<mailto:yaw...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi again,

I got a good deal on the last edition of the G5 quadcore and it seems solid. 
The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt command 
when starting up. Normally you get the choice of startup disks available but 
now the G5 just ignores the Alt key and starts from the disk chosen in the 
system prefs. Can be a major PITA under certain circumstances.

Anybody any idea what causes this? I replaced the PRAM battery although 
Everymac.com<http://Everymac.com> says "doesn't apply".

TIA for your valuable comments.

Jörg from the Netherlands.



Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
Hi,

My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just 
another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP card 
again and waiting for another failing power supply.

I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good price. So 
what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio Revolution card as 
the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using my Samsung digital TV 
as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and I'll get a Mac Pro monitor 
extra.

I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can simply 
transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a nice old 
Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e SCSI-card. Do you 
have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in the G5 2.5 Ghz DP 
quadcore?

The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the liquid 
cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth transition. 
Thank you.

Best regards, Jörg.

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 17/04/18 23:24, "Jörg Duurkoop" ha scritto:

> The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt
> command when starting up.

Are you using a non-Apple keyboard?
If so, try a different keyboard.

USB keyboards should be standard, but I noticed some of them do not send the
Alt /Option key during startup.


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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Kris Tilford]

> On Apr 17, 2018, at 4:24 PM, Jörg Duurkoop  wrote:
> 
> Hi again,
> 
> I got a good deal on the last edition of the G5 quadcore and it seems solid. 
> The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt command 
> when starting up. Normally you get the choice of startup disks available but 
> now the G5 just ignores the Alt key and starts from the disk chosen in the 
> system prefs. Can be a major PITA under certain circumstances.

Assume you mean “Option” key rather than “Alt” unless you’re using a PC 
keyboard, which could be the problem. If you’re using a Mac keyboard, some of 
the early USB keyboards had a firmware update available that may fix your issue.

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi again,

I got a good deal on the last edition of the G5 quadcore and it seems 
solid. The only thing I'm puzzled about is lately it won't react to the Alt 
command when starting up. Normally you get the choice of startup disks 
available but now the G5 just ignores the Alt key and starts from the disk 
chosen in the system prefs. Can be a major PITA under certain circumstances.

Anybody any idea what causes this? I replaced the PRAM battery although 
Everymac.com says "doesn't apply".

TIA for your valuable comments.

Jörg from the Netherlands.



Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>
> Hi,
>
> My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just 
> another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP 
> card again and waiting for another failing power supply.
>
> I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good 
> price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio 
> Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using 
> my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and 
> I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.
>
> I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can 
> simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a 
> nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e 
> SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in 
> the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?
>
> The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the 
> liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth 
> transition. Thank you.
>
> Best regards, Jörg.
>

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Thank you Jason for your comment.

I avoided the liquid cooled G5s and found a great deal, about 200 bucks 
(155 €) for 3 G5s and 3 Cinema displays plus 1 Cinema display power supply. 
One of them is a humble 1.8 G5 so I will have a scanning station because 
that one still can use normal PCI cards and will get my old Adaptec SCSI 
card.

My main machine is a 2 Ghz dual core of the last edition. The 3rd G5 is a 
2.3 DP which I keep as a donor for the 1.8 and for other parts. It's not 
that much faster than my DP MDD but very quiet and has optical audio out so 
I can use it as a music server without the darn M-Audio Revolution card.

I still have some questions:

1. On the Every Mac site they state that the dual core machines don't need 
a PRAM battery but in the booklet it says that there is a battery inside.

2. Can I use the graphic display card of my G4 MDD in the 1.8 machine as is 
or do I need the DVI to ADC adapter? I think the reason all my MDDs died 
was the fact that I used 4 internal HDs and 2 displays of which one sucked 
a lot of extra power via the ADC connector. That ADC was a bad idea I guess.

Thank you for your comments,

Best regards, Jörg.

Op maandag 12 maart 2018 15:50:56 UTC+1 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>
> Hi,
>
> My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just 
> another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP 
> card again and waiting for another failing power supply.
>
> I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good 
> price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio 
> Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using 
> my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and 
> I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.
>
> I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can 
> simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a 
> nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e 
> SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in 
> the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?
>
> The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the 
> liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth 
> transition. Thank you.
>
> Best regards, Jörg.
>

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Re: Have to replace my dying MDD

[Jason Mayfield-Lewis]

On 12 Mar 2018 14:50, "Jörg Duurkoop" <yaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just
another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP
card again and waiting for another failing power supply.

I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good
price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio
Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using
my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and
I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.

I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can
simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a
nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e
SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in
the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?

The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the
liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth
transition. Thank you.

Best regards, Jörg.

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When you say 'top model', I hope you're not referring to the liquid cooled
quad 2.5 PCI-E or dual 2.7 PCI-X model, they certainly aren't reliable
(unless you're a fan of working on closed loop liquid cooling systems) -
having said that, mine is still going 5 years or so after I rebuilt it with
all-new pipework and anti-corrosion car coolant but it's not used much and
I definitely wouldn't trust one without a known history.

Jason

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Have to replace my dying MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi,

My fourth MDD is having power supply problems and I'm tired of buying just 
another one and transfer 4 HDs, all my PCI cards, RAM and my 1.25 Ghz DP 
card again and waiting for another failing power supply.

I decided to go for a G5 instead and can get the top model for a good 
price. So what changes do I have to make? I can throw away my M-Audio 
Revolution card as the G5 has optical audio in and out. I can keep on using 
my Samsung digital TV as my monitor, it's already perfectly calibrated and 
I'll get a Mac Pro monitor extra.

I already use two Sata HDs with Tiger in my MDD with adapters so I can 
simply transplant them. But I want to keep my legacy SCSI devices like a 
nice old Microtec scanner and an old MOD drive so I'll need a PCI-e 
SCSI-card. Do you have any suggestions which cards will work with Tiger in 
the G5 2.5 Ghz DP quadcore?

The G5 should be the latest edition so I don't expect any woes with the 
liquid cooling system. Any other suggestions anybody? I hope for a smooth 
transition. Thank you.

Best regards, Jörg.

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Re: PRAM of MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Op maandag 13 november 2017 14:19:41 UTC+1 schreef John Carmonne:
>
>
>
> FWIW I have 2 MDD's and 2 G5 Power Macs they don't even have the batteries 
> in them and I have no issues with any of them.
>
 
Thanks John. So no more worries.

Best regards, Jörg.
 

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Re: PRAM of MDD

['John Carmonne' via G-Group]

On Nov 12, 2017, at 4:19 AM, Jörg wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Sometimes I get a warning after startup of my MDD running Tiger that my clock 
> is not set right. I understand that's probably a PRAM battery problem.
> 
> As my clock is set to be connected to the internet I always see the right 
> date and time. There are no other problems as far as I know.
> 
> What problems are known to occur when a MDD has a weak PRAM battery? Is ist 
> absolutely necessary to change it? Thanks for your comments.
> 
> -- 
> Per aspera ad astra.
> 
> 

FWIW I have 2 MDD's and 2 G5 Power Macs they don't even have the batteries in 
them and I have no issues with any of them.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: PRAM of MDD

[Clark Martin]

Typically you can run okay without a PRAM battery. 

One problem I have observed with a low battery in some models is a failure to 
start.  Simply removing the battery allowed the machine to start.  I don’t know 
if the MDD is one of the machines that exhibits this behavior.



Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway

> On Nov 12, 2017, at 4:19 AM, Jörg <yaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Sometimes I get a warning after startup of my MDD running Tiger that my clock 
> is not set right. I understand that's probably a PRAM battery problem.
> 
> As my clock is set to be connected to the internet I always see the right 
> date and time. There are no other problems as far as I know.
> 
> What problems are known to occur when a MDD has a weak PRAM battery? Is ist 
> absolutely necessary to change it? Thanks for your comments.
> 

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Re: PRAM of MDD

[peterhaas]

> What problems are known to occur when a MDD has a weak PRAM battery? Is
> ist
> absolutely necessary to change it? Thanks for your comments.

The nominal voltage of the PRAM battery is 3.6 volts.

The battery may still be functional when is reaches 3.0 volts, at which
point it is considered exhausted.

The PRAM chip is quite variable, and some will appear to have failed at
somewhat above 3.0 volts, while others will still be good at somewhat
below 3.0 volts.

The best plan is to replace the battery when it is low, but is still above
3.0 volts.



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Re: PRAM of MDD

[Cameron Kaiser]

> Sometimes I get a warning after startup of my MDD running Tiger that my
> clock is not set right. I understand that's probably a PRAM battery problem.
> 
> As my clock is set to be connected to the internet I always see the right
> date and time. There are no other problems as far as I know.
> 
> What problems are known to occur when a MDD has a weak PRAM battery? Is ist
> absolutely necessary to change it? Thanks for your comments.

PRAM stores things such as date and time, time zone, system volume settings
and some networking settings such as AppleTalk. None of these are critical
but they can be obnoxious if they get scrambled. Although OS X stores less in
PRAM than OS 9 did, it is still important, and there may be other settings
lost if your PRAM battery is low that you might not notice until later. The
1/2-AA style lithium battery that is used by most Power Macs is easy to find
from electronics stores and Amazon, and costs only a few dollars.

This is different from OpenFirmware NVRAM, which stores boot strings and
other startup information in non-volatile RAM which is not battery-backed and
is not affected by the PRAM battery.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- smit happens. --

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PRAM of MDD

[Jörg]

Hi

Sometimes I get a warning after startup of my MDD running Tiger that my
clock is not set right. I understand that's probably a PRAM battery problem.

As my clock is set to be connected to the internet I always see the right
date and time. There are no other problems as far as I know.

What problems are known to occur when a MDD has a weak PRAM battery? Is ist
absolutely necessary to change it? Thanks for your comments.

-- 
Per aspera ad astra.

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Re: Dead MDD?

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 2:09:54 PM UTC-4, joh...@pharmacy.arizona.edu 
wrote:
>
> Unplug it, press the CUDA switch a couple times, then plug it back in. 
>
> I’ve had issues like this with computers subject to power line issues like 
> brownouts and such…basically the startup circuitry gets confused and the 
> computer won’t start. 
>
> With a MDD this could also be the flaky power supply as well. Every MDD we 
> ever had eventually needed a PS replacement, and this was the symptom. 
>
>
>
After my last MDD (of 5 I owned) power supply died, I found a G5 to run PPC 
apps that required Leopard. Not to mention some peripherals that I still 
wanted to use.  I loved my MDDs, but the time and cost to replace the 
supply was more than just buying the G5 which seems to not have this issue. 
 

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Re: Dead MDD?

[Jörg Duurkoop]

I transplanted all disks and drives from my "dead" dual 1.25 GHz MDD to 
another 1 GHz single-CPU MDD (FireWire 400) and have everything working 
again. But ...

I have also the optional developer toolkit installed and the Hardware 
control panel still shows two processors running at 1 GHz. So does the 
Apple System Profile. Activity Monitor also shows two CPUs. When I switch 
off one CPU via the Hardware control panel, Apple sys. prof. shows only one 
CPU. So Hardware created a virtual CPU and Sys. Prof. gets its info from 
Hardware??

Sys. Prof. sees the mobo running at 167 MHz. So maybe the CPU's real speed 
would be 1.25 GHz? I think this MDD was made in 2003, the last FW 400 
edition for people who still needed to boot into Sys. 9.

Anyway, I will replace the CPU and install my dual CPU-card again after 
getting some Arctic Silver.

Thanks again for all comments,

Jörg.

Op maandag 22 augustus 2016 19:41:37 UTC+2 schreef Jörg Duurkoop:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just returned from a 5-week vacation and my MDD won't start anymore. No 
> sound no light, nothing.
>
> I left it plugged in as I found that it helps prolonging the life of the 
> PRAM battery.
>
> Any ideas what it could be? The Mac worked perfectly when I left for my 
> holidays. I'm flummoxed, I love that machine.
>
> Thank you again for all comments.
>
> Jörg.
>

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Re: Dead MDD?

[Kenneth Peterson]

I just returned from a 5-week vacation and my MDD won't start 
anymore. No sound no light, nothing.


I left it plugged in as I found that it helps prolonging the life of 
the PRAM battery.


Any ideas what it could be? The Mac worked perfectly when I left for 
my holidays. I'm flummoxed, I love that machine.


My MDD has gone through 4 power supplies in 10 years.  That'd be my 
first assumption given your symptoms.


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Re: Dead MDD?

[Bruce Johnson]

Unplug it, press the CUDA switch a couple times, then plug it back in.

I’ve had issues like this with computers subject to power line issues like 
brownouts and such…basically the startup circuitry gets confused and the 
computer won’t start.

With a MDD this could also be the flaky power supply as well. Every MDD we ever 
had eventually needed a PS replacement, and this was the symptom.



> On Aug 22, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Jörg Duurkoop <yaw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I just returned from a 5-week vacation and my MDD won't start anymore. No 
> sound no light, nothing.
> 
> I left it plugged in as I found that it helps prolonging the life of the PRAM 
> battery.
> 
> Any ideas what it could be? The Mac worked perfectly when I left for my 
> holidays. I'm flummoxed, I love that machine.
> 
> Thank you for any comments.
> 
> Jörg.
> 
> -- 
> -- 
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-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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A better PCI-soundcard for MDD/Tiger

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi there,

Lately my old M-Audio Revolution 7.1 soundcard gives me grief. The sound 
from the green output is often very loud and totally distorted so I have to 
switch to the MDD's speaker.

Since I use the card in my MDD I can't use the sleep function (the card 
worked better with Panther BTW) and after every kernel panic/permanent 
beachball the Mac forgets my user data and pw so I cannot log in anymore. 
That's why I clone my drives all the time. Apparently the M-Audio drivers 
are very bad and buggy.

I tried the driver versions 1.4.1 and the recommended Leopard drivers. The 
Tiger drivers are much worse than the Panther ones and with the Leopard 
ones I have the same distortion problem plus the card's Pref. panel won't 
open.

I liked the digital out though - I have almost 1 TB of digital music on 
harddisk. Perhaps I should look for another card with better Mac support 
but want to stick with Tiger - I like TenFourFox a lot - thanks again 
Cameron Kaiser for your work. What alternative would you recommend? I don't 
need any studio functionality or surround sound. When I watch a movie I 
play it from a USB stick on my digital TV/monitor and listen with my Stax 
headphones.

I want a good SPDIF digital out and OK analog stereo sound from the green 
output for the built-in speakers of my monitor. It should be a PCI-card 
with good Tiger drivers. Any ideas? Thank you.

Best regards, Jörg.

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Re: Seagate hybrid HD crashes in a MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi Bruce,

Thank you.

Op zaterdag 30 april 2016 21:57:37 UTC+2 schreef 
joh...@pharmacy.arizona.edu:
>
>
> > Does Disk utility show any SMART errors? I suspect it may be a flaky 
> drive. You can also get a utility like this <
> https://www.volitans-software.com/apps/smart-utility/> which will give 
> you better info than Disk Utility which simply tells you ‘errors have 
> occured' 
>
> That said I don’t have any experience with those drives on Macs, let alone 
> PPC macs…We’ve gotten them in a number of newer PC’s at work and haven’t 
> had issues.
>

I tried the latest SMART Utility you pointed me to but it won't start. I 
found an earlier version 2.0.0 in my app folder, a demo that still worked. 
It declared my WD 1TB green "Failing" because it has 6 reallocated bad 
blocks but declared my Seagate hybrid as fine.

As the WD is working flawlessly ever since one crash I guess I'll wait and 
see, I have a 5-year warranty and use CCC on a weekly basis. The shop where 
I bought the Seagate tests all RMAs on a PC and if they still work refuse 
to accept the warranty claim.

Everything's working fine now, keep my fingers crossed ...

Regards, Jörg.

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Re: Seagate hybrid HD crashes in a MDD

[Bruce Johnson]

> On Apr 30, 2016, at 10:11 AM, Jörg Duurkoop  wrote:
> 
> ut I experienced three crashes in three days after the purchase. The crash 
> happened always with three apps running, TenFourFox with about twelve 
> windows/tabs open, Vuze downloading a movie and watching a low-res video in 
> QuickTime.
> 
> I always keep two recent CCC-clones so I always can boot my Mac but I wonder 
> what causes these crashes - the only thing that moves is the beachball. One 
> time I could still open the force quit window but it wouldn't work anyway. 
> Could it be there are some issues Tiger has with hybrid disks or SSD? I like 
> the drive, it's fast, not expensive (97 €) and comes with a five year 
> warranty.

I don’t think that the Mac sees the ‘hybrid’ part of those disks; it just sees 
it as a SATA drive, the ssd part is managed by the on-board electronics. 

Does Disk utility show any SMART errors? I suspect it may be a flaky drive. You 
can also get a utility like this 
 which will give you 
better info than Disk Utility which simply tells you ‘errors have occured'

That said I don’t have any experience with those drives on Macs, let alone PPC 
macs…We’ve gotten them in a number of newer PC’s at work and haven’t had issues.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Seagate hybrid HD crashes in a MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi,

I own one of the last MDDs, a 1.25GHz dual processor machine. My system is 
10.4.11. Since my normal bootdisk, a WD 1TB SATA developed some bad blocks 
I bought a new harddisk to boot from, a Seagate SSHD ST2000DX001 2TB, a 
hybrid with 8GB of SSD memory.

It's placed alongside my old WD in the ATA 100 cage, both HDs are connected 
via SATA to ATA adapters. It is a little faster than my WD green and adapts 
"intelligently" to the user. My first startup took much longer than the 
second and the disk booted even faster the third time.

But I experienced three crashes in three days after the purchase. The crash 
happened always with three apps running, TenFourFox with about twelve 
windows/tabs open, Vuze downloading a movie and watching a low-res video in 
QuickTime.

I always keep two recent CCC-clones so I always can boot my Mac but I 
wonder what causes these crashes - the only thing that moves is the 
beachball. One time I could still open the force quit window but it 
wouldn't work anyway. Could it be there are some issues Tiger has with 
hybrid disks or SSD? I like the drive, it's fast, not expensive (97 €) and 
comes with a five year warranty.

Thanks for any comments,

Jörg.


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Re: Processor upgrades for G4 MDD

[Kenneth Peterson]

Are there any processor upgrades available for a dual 1.25 GHz 
Mirror Drive Door G4 (Model Identifier: PowerMac3,6)?


http://lowendmac.com/2007/3-cpu-upgrades-for-mirrored-drive-doors-g4-power-macs/

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Re: MDD Dual G4 Startup woes

[Peter Devlin]

On 09/06/2015 05:46, Clark Martin cm...@sonic.net wrote:

 I have a dual G4 MDD with a startup problem. It¹s been ³finicky² for a while,
 requiring holding the power button for a few seconds to start up ­ and not a
 soft touch at that; when I say ³holding² I mean *holding*/*pushing* hard ­ so
 upon returning home from the long Memorial Day weekend I decided to open it up
 and give it a thorough cleaning of the dust and dirt and cat hair. But when I
 went to start it I got only a brief flicker of the power button light
 beforeŠnothing. And subsequent attempts don¹t even generate that much
 activity.

My guess would be PS with the gradual fail and current lack of response
- shouldn't be too expensive to try another though...

Pete


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Re: MDD Dual G4 Startup woes

[Cameron Kaiser]

  But when I
  went to start it I got only a brief flicker of the power button light
  before__nothing. And subsequent attempts don__t even generate that much
  activity.
 
 My guess would be PS with the gradual fail and current lack of response
 - shouldn't be too expensive to try another though...

I agree. My MDD power supply (the two failures I've had) failed in exactly
the same way, with the same symptoms.

-- 
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-- TRUE HEADLINE: Morning-After Pill Decision Delayed -

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MDD Dual G4 Startup woes

[Digital Bill]

Dual 867 G4 MDD
Machine Model: PowerMac3,6

I have a dual G4 MDD with a startup problem. It’s been “finicky” for a 
while, requiring holding the power button for a few seconds to start up – 
and not a soft touch at that; when I say “holding” I mean 
*holding*/*pushing* hard – so upon returning home from the long Memorial 
Day weekend I decided to open it up and give it a thorough cleaning of the 
dust and dirt and cat hair. But when I went to start it I got only a brief 
flicker of the power button light before…nothing. And subsequent attempts 
don’t even generate that much activity.

Web research has pointed me all over the place: the power button itself, a 
CUDA reset, the PRAM battery, the power supply or the logic board. I’m no 
stranger to cracking open the case and tinkering, but I’d at least like to 
know where to start before I do.

I picked up a new PRAM battery and a MDD chassis from OWC. My plan is to 
try the PRAM/CUDA trick first, then explore swapping the power switch 
itself since the one on the empty chassis seems WAY lighter to the touch 
than mine ever was. (I never really could understand why it took so much 
pressure on that switch in the first place. Perhaps that’s been the cause 
all along?)

ANYWAY, I recall a discussion from last August or so about similar problems 
one of you was having, so I wonder if you can shed any light on what might 
work for me based on what ultimately proved to be the solution for you.

Can you help? Or, as a “vintage” or “obsolete” machine (in Apple’s eyes) am 
I just out of luck? If worse comes to worst and it comes down to an eBay 
scavenger hunt and some serious DIY time, so be it. But, hopefully not.


Thanks,

Bill Wilson
Wilson-Lewis-Wilson Design

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Re: MDD Dual G4 Startup woes

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 8, 2015, at 4:26 PM, Digital Bill 
wlwdes...@gmail.commailto:wlwdes...@gmail.com wrote:

 picked up a new PRAM battery and a MDD chassis from OWC. My plan is to try the 
PRAM/CUDA trick first, then explore swapping the power switch itself since the 
one on the empty chassis seems WAY lighter to the touch than mine ever was. (I 
never really could understand why it took so much pressure on that switch in 
the first place. Perhaps that’s been the cause all along?)

ANYWAY, I recall a discussion from last August or so about similar problems one 
of you was having, so I wonder if you can shed any light on what might work for 
me based on what ultimately proved to be the solution for you.

Can you help? Or, as a “vintage” or “obsolete” machine (in Apple’s eyes) am I 
just out of luck? If worse comes to worst and it comes down to an eBay 
scavenger hunt and some serious DIY time, so be it. But, hopefully not.

You’re on the right track. The PRAM/Cuda trick costs nothing, the battery can 
be eliminated by removing it and trying to start it up. They’ll boot without a 
battery, and with a good battery, but not with a failing battery.

Given the power switch has always required a lot of pressure, that’s the next 
place I’d look(and honestly, given your description, I’d consider replacing it 
first if you have a replacement to hand). The next obvious candidate is what 
the power switch is attached to, which is the PS. The logic board is actually 
the last thing I’d suspect.

It is a way-old machine, and there are a host of issues it could be. Fixing it 
is dependent entirely on your willingness to hunt down old parts and spend $ 
and time fixing it, compared to the costs of getting a newer system.

Picking up a machine that can run the current version of software and OS is not 
insanely expensive, and probably within the time/money envelope of fixing the 
old one with used parts (which will still have increasing issues dealing with 
the ‘modern’ world).

If you have old software you need to keep running that’s another thing, but as 
a general use system I’d not spend a ton of time or money on it myself.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
attery.
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: MDD Dual G4 Startup woes

[Clark Martin]

I know this applies to at least one Mac, possibly this one (it's been a while 
since I've been inside my MDD), look to see if the motherboard has two buttons 
on it.  If it does, one performs a CUDA reset and the other turns on the power. 
 I can't recall if it is marked but give each one, in turn, a push. 

KK6ISP
Yet another designated driver on the information super highway.

 On Jun 8, 2015, at 4:26 PM, Digital Bill wlwdes...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I have a dual G4 MDD with a startup problem. It’s been “finicky” for a while, 
 requiring holding the power button for a few seconds to start up – and not a 
 soft touch at that; when I say “holding” I mean *holding*/*pushing* hard – so 
 upon returning home from the long Memorial Day weekend I decided to open it 
 up and give it a thorough cleaning of the dust and dirt and cat hair. But 
 when I went to start it I got only a brief flicker of the power button light 
 before…nothing. And subsequent attempts don’t even generate that much 
 activity.

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MDD G4 Start-up Issue

[Michael McMurtrey]

Lately, my MCC G4 refuses to start by means of the start button on the  
front of the computer. I have to open the case and reset the PMU in  
order to re-start. I suspected the PRAM battery might be bad, but it's  
a new one that is outputting 3.67 volts. What's up?


Michael McMurtrey
Carrollton, TX







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Re: MDD G4 Start-up Issue

['Brian Fuelleman' via G-Group]

I'd take a close look to see if the internal connections for the switch are 
clean and intact.


On Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:01 AM, 'John Carmonne' via G-Group 
g3-5-list@googlegroups.com wrote:
 



On Aug 17, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Michael McMurtrey wrote:

 Lately, my MCC G4 refuses to start by means of the start button on the front 
 of the computer. I have to open the case and reset the PMU in order to 
 re-start. I suspected the PRAM battery might be bad, but it's a new one that 
 is outputting 3.67 volts. What's up?
 

The MDD's will run without a battery in them, My MDD's will occasionally not 
start so if I unplug the power cord  in the back and plug back in they start 
with the button. It may be a PS issue but mine have been doing this for years.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA


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Re: MDD G4 Start-up Issue

[James E. Therrault]

Spraying the switch with electronic cleaner or WD-40 can't hurt...

JT




On Aug 17, 2014, at 5:15 PM, 'Brian Fuelleman' via G-Group wrote:

 I'd take a close look to see if the internal connections for the switch are 
 clean and intact.
 
 
 On Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:01 AM, 'John Carmonne' via G-Group 
 g3-5-list@googlegroups.com wrote:
 
 
 
 On Aug 17, 2014, at 9:27 AM, Michael McMurtrey wrote:
 
  Lately, my MCC G4 refuses to start by means of the start button on the 
  front of the computer. I have to open the case and reset the PMU in order 
  to re-start. I suspected the PRAM battery might be bad, but it's a new one 
  that is outputting 3.67 volts. What's up?
  

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Re: MDD 10.4.11 - transfer user info programs to Intel 10.6.8

[darkwallmac]

On 2014-02-17 17:24, Bruce Johnson wrote:

On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:37 PM, Dark_Mac darkwall...@fightfor.org wrote:



Just remember, you cannot migrate a user account already exists on the
target system; and it is the short user name that is matched, so
simply changing the long name associated with an account won't work.

That's the #1 error I've helped people with regarding Migration
Assistant. It seems natural to create a user 'Joe' on a new system,
then migrate all of 'Joe's' info from the old mac. That won't work.



Bruce,

Yes I remember you stating this before.  I only have the Admin user on 
the system transferring to.


Mike

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Re: MDD 10.4.11 - transfer user info programs to Intel 10.6.8

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 16, 2014, at 7:14 PM, Dark_Mac darkwall...@fightfor.org wrote:

 
 What are my options here?  The intel system uses SATA drives and I do have a 
 USB to ATA HD drive adapter (OWC item again) so can connect HD from MDD to 
 intel Mac via USB if that will work.  Can I use Migration Assistant to move 
 info from the USB connected drive?

Yes. I've done that numerous times. Works like a charm.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

Wherever you go, there you are. B. Banzai, PhD

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Re: MDD 10.4.11 - transfer user info programs to Intel 10.6.8

[Dark_Mac]

On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:37 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

What are my options here?  The intel system uses SATA drives and I  
do have a USB to ATA HD drive adapter (OWC item again) so can  
connect HD from MDD to intel Mac via USB if that will work.  Can I  
use Migration Assistant to move info from the USB connected drive?


Yes. I've done that numerous times. Works like a charm.

--
Bruce Johnson



Bruce,

Great then I have options to try this weekend.  Work has other plans  
for me most of this week. :-)


Regards,

Dark_Mac

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Re: MDD 10.4.11 - transfer user info programs to Intel 10.6.8

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 17, 2014, at 1:37 PM, Dark_Mac darkwall...@fightfor.org wrote:

 
 On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:37 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
 
 What are my options here?  The intel system uses SATA drives and I do have 
 a USB to ATA HD drive adapter (OWC item again) so can connect HD from MDD 
 to intel Mac via USB if that will work.  Can I use Migration Assistant to 
 move info from the USB connected drive?
 
 Yes. I've done that numerous times. Works like a charm.
 
 -- 
 Bruce Johnson
 
 
 Bruce,
 
 Great then I have options to try this weekend.  Work has other plans for me 
 most of this week. :-)

Just remember, you cannot migrate a user account already exists on the target 
system; and it is the short user name that is matched, so simply changing the 
long name associated with an account won't work.

That's the #1 error I've helped people with regarding Migration Assistant. It 
seems natural to create a user 'Joe' on a new system, then migrate all of 
'Joe's' info from the old mac. That won't work.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: MDD 10.4.11 - transfer user info programs to Intel 10.6.8

[Fabian Fang]

On Feb 16, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Dark_Mac wrote:

 I need some direction/help here.  I have been able to determine that the 
 Firewire ports on my DP 1.0GHz MDD 10.4.11 are dead. I purchased a cheap PCI 
 card from OWC to get back firewire (based on recent emails in the firewire 
 AWOL tread that the PCI card I added will not work).  I need a way to move 
 apps  user's info, Mail, etc. to an intel based Mac running 10.6.8.
 
 What are my options here?


The following Apple Support document describes a variety of transfer methods:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2664

Fabian

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Re: MDD 10.4.11 - transfer user info programs to Intel 10.6.8

[Dark_Mac]

On Feb 16, 2014, at 9:15 PM, Fabian Fang wrote:


On Feb 16, 2014, at 6:14 PM, Dark_Mac wrote:

I need some direction/help here.  I have been able to determine  
that the Firewire ports on my DP 1.0GHz MDD 10.4.11 are dead. I  
purchased a cheap PCI card from OWC to get back firewire (based on  
recent emails in the firewire AWOL tread that the PCI card I added  
will not work).  I need a way to move apps  user's info, Mail,  
etc. to an intel based Mac running 10.6.8.


What are my options here?



The following Apple Support document describes a variety of  
transfer methods:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2664

Fabian


Fabian,

Thanks so much for the link to the apple support page.  I will try it  
out, if have issues I will return.


Regards,
Mike

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Airport Card not detected on PowerMac G4 MDD

[Michael McMurtrey]

Card purchased on LEM swap list, installed per User Guide  
instructions, antenna connected. System profiler does not detect it,  
and there is no Airport option in Network control panel.


Hardware Overview:

Model Name: Power Mac G4
  Model Identifier: PowerMac3,6
  Processor Name:   PowerPC G4  (3.3)
  Processor Speed:  1.25 GHz
  Number Of CPUs:   2
  L2 Cache (per CPU):   256 KB
  L3 Cache (per CPU):   2 MB
  Memory:   2 GB
  Bus Speed:167 MHz
  Boot ROM Version: 4.4.8f2
  Serial Number (system):   XB40905UQ6P
  Hardware UUID:--1000-8000-000A95CFC548

OS is 10.5.8.

Is an Airport base station necessary for the Airport card to be  
detected? I do not yet have one.



Michael McMurtrey
Carrollton, TX





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Re: Airport Card not detected on PowerMac G4 MDD

[peterhaas]

 Is an Airport base station necessary for the Airport card to be
 detected? I do not yet have one.

Airport is simply Apple's registered trademark for its implementation of
the internationally standardized 802.11.

There are at least four variations: 802.11a, 802.11b, 802.11g and 802.11n.

802.11a is so very old that most later cards support only 802.11b and
802.11g, the so-called 802.11b/g cards.

The newest card also supports 802.11n.

However, when Broadcom redesigned its card for 802.11n, it made it an
802.11a/b/g/n card.

I believe the earliest airport cards, the ones which are a shortie
PCMCIA card, are 802.11a, only, and that is probably why one might think
these can only work with an Apple Airport access point, as by that time,
everyone (Cisco, and a great many others) had already moved beyond 802.11a
and were supporting 802.11b and 802.11n, but NOT 802.11a.

802.11a is a poor design, which is undoubtedly why later adopters
eschewed Apple's preferred 802.11a, and went immediately with 802.11b or b
and n.

Most WiFi USB dongles are 802.11b/n, and some of these are so highly
integrated that these can be made using only one LSI chip (Realtek),
whereas before, these required at least two chips (protocol chip and a
transmitter/receiver chip, as in the formerly ubiquitous ZyDas products).



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Re: Airport Card not detected on PowerMac G4 MDD

[Clark Martin]

On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Michael McMurtrey wrote:

 Card purchased on LEM swap list, installed per User Guide instructions, 
 antenna connected. System profiler does not detect it, and there is no 
 Airport option in Network control panel.
 
 Hardware Overview:
 
 Model Name:   Power Mac G4
   Model Identifier:   PowerMac3,6
   Processor Name: PowerPC G4  (3.3)
   Processor Speed:1.25 GHz
   Number Of CPUs: 2
   L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
   L3 Cache (per CPU): 2 MB
   Memory: 2 GB
   Bus Speed:  167 MHz
   Boot ROM Version:   4.4.8f2
   Serial Number (system): XB40905UQ6P
   Hardware UUID:  --1000-8000-000A95CFC548
 
 OS is 10.5.8.
 
 Is an Airport base station necessary for the Airport card to be detected? I 
 do not yet have one.
 

Absolutely not, I have several computers with various Airport cards and they 
worked long before I had an Airport Base Station.

Try reseating the card.  Make sure it's in the right way.

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Re: Airport Card not detected on PowerMac G4 MDD

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Clark Martin cm...@sonic.net
 wrote:

 Is an Airport base station necessary for the Airport card to be detected? I 
 do not yet have one.
 
 
 Absolutely not, I have several computers with various Airport cards and they 
 worked long before I had an Airport Base Station.
 
 Try reseating the card.  Make sure it's in the right way.
 

What Clark said, these are hard to seat sometimes.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Airport Card not detected on PowerMac G4 MDD

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:31 PM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote:

 
 I believe the earliest airport cards, the ones which are a shortie
 PCMCIA card, are 802.11a, only

No, Apple never shipped an A-only card, they were always A+B cards (they were 
internally identical to the Lucent Orinoco Silver cards, which were what early 
Airport base stations actually used.) 

Also most, if not all WiFi routers at the time also supported A and B.  I know 
the Cisco ones we set up in our building (which were contemporaneous with the 
advent of the Airport) supported both A and B. You could get amazing speed from 
A… IF you were within, say 15-25 feet, completely unobstructed, of the router.
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Airport Card not detected on PowerMac G4 MDD

[Clark Martin]

On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:31 PM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote:


 I believe the earliest airport cards, the ones which are a shortie
 PCMCIA card, are 802.11a, only, and that is probably why one might think
 these can only work with an Apple Airport access point, as by that time,
 everyone (Cisco, and a great many others) had already moved beyond 802.11a
 and were supporting 802.11b and 802.11n, but NOT 802.11a.

The earliest Airport cards are b only.  I don't recall ever hearing of Apple 
offering a card that supported a.

 
 802.11a is a poor design, which is undoubtedly why later adopters
 eschewed Apple's preferred 802.11a, and went immediately with 802.11b or b
 and n.
 
 Most WiFi USB dongles are 802.11b/n, and some of these are so highly
 integrated that these can be made using only one LSI chip (Realtek),
 whereas before, these required at least two chips (protocol chip and a
 transmitter/receiver chip, as in the formerly ubiquitous ZyDas products).

In general, (meaning Airport and non-Airport) cards support b, newer ones 
support b  g, and even newer ones also support b, g  n.  Some third 
party cards also support a.

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[No No]

On Feb 20, 2013, at 3:30 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:




On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 2:32:12 PM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:

On Feb 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:

 Hey Joe and others:

 There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power
 supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild  
Power

 Supply.  They want about $80 for the job.

 Bob

 Thanks for the lead, but the one new york place that results has a
 note they don't do this any more. I'll keep looking.


Sorry to hear that.  Maybe time for an earlier G4 or a G5?

Bob

Well, I have 4 dead MDD G4s, and would still like to get 2 working.  
I'd upgraded over the years, and even have a couple SATA cards in  
two of them, it would be a shame to call it quits.


Spoken like a true Lowendmaccer.  Viva Le Machina!

If you are willing to do some work and figuring, the group at www.Badcaps.com 
 have helped a few people to fix their own G4 MDD power supplies.  It  
may take a while, but they are very patient and helpful.  You have to  
join, of course, but that is free and I never got any spam from it.


Good luck, again.  Bob

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[t...@prismnet.com]

On Feb 20, 1:43 am, No No grizzledgia...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hey Joe and others:

 There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power
 supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild Power
 Supply.  They want about $80 for the job.

All things considered, I bet it's less time and expense to just get a
rebuild as mentioned above.  However, I've been wondering if these
would fit or could be made to fit:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251172364599?
ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Jeff Walther

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 2:43:01 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:


 On Feb 19, 2013, at 2:33 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: 

  One by one, my MDD G4 collection has seen their power supplies fail. 
  It seems the exact form factor is not available as a new product,   
  only used. Which is tough, as it would probably fail soon anyway. 
  
  Anyone have experience replacing these? Any advice on best model to   
  fit inside the MDD case? 
  
  I bought an ATX 400W supply and waited to start the conversion   
  process. Now that I tested it, it's a DOA. My mistake waiting so   
  long, but though I'd ask here before throwing more money at this. 

 Hey Joe and others: 

 There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power   
 supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild Power   
 Supply.  They want about $80 for the job. 

 Bob 


Thanks for the lead, but the one new york place that results has a note 
they don't do this any more. I'll keep looking.  

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:05:45 PM UTC-5, tr...@prismnet.com wrote:



 On Feb 20, 1:43 am, No No grizzledgia...@gmail.com wrote: 

  Hey Joe and others: 
  
  There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power 
  supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild Power 
  Supply.  They want about $80 for the job. 

 All things considered, I bet it's less time and expense to just get a 
 rebuild as mentioned above.  However, I've been wondering if these 
 would fit or could be made to fit: 

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251172364599? 
 ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649http://www.ebay.com/itm/251172364599?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
  


 Jeff Walther 

 
 Looks like a good shape but it's a used supply. If I'm going to buy used, 
I'd try to get the exact form factor with MDD voltage pinout. 
Right now, I'm leaning towards http://atxg4.com/ for the adapter, and just 
trying to find an ATX supply that makes sense. I'm willing to pull the 
optical drives out and drill holes to vent out the side if I have to. 
 

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[No No]

On Feb 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:


Hey Joe and others:

There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power
supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild Power
Supply.  They want about $80 for the job.

Bob

Thanks for the lead, but the one new york place that results has a  
note they don't do this any more. I'll keep looking.




Sorry to hear that.  Maybe time for an earlier G4 or a G5?

Bob

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 2:32:12 PM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:


 On Feb 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: 

  Hey Joe and others: 
  
  There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power 
  supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild Power 
  Supply.  They want about $80 for the job. 
  
  Bob 
  
  Thanks for the lead, but the one new york place that results has a   
  note they don't do this any more. I'll keep looking. 
  

 Sorry to hear that.  Maybe time for an earlier G4 or a G5? 

 Bob 


Well, I have 4 dead MDD G4s, and would still like to get 2 working. I'd 
upgraded over the years, and even have a couple SATA cards in two of them, 
it would be a shame to call it quits. 
 

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[James Carroll]

 Hey Joe and others:

 There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power
 supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild Power
 Supply.  They want about $80 for the job.

 Bob

According to their website National Ram Electronics no longer repairs
Apple power supplies except for ones that are still under their warranty.

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MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[JoeTaxpayer]

One by one, my MDD G4 collection has seen their power supplies fail. 
It seems the exact form factor is not available as a new product, only 
used. Which is tough, as it would probably fail soon anyway. 

Anyone have experience replacing these? Any advice on best model to fit 
inside the MDD case? 

I bought an ATX 400W supply and waited to start the conversion process. Now 
that I tested it, it's a DOA. My mistake waiting so long, but though I'd 
ask here before throwing more money at this. 

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[James Carroll]

 One by one, my MDD G4 collection has seen their power supplies fail.
 It seems the exact form factor is not available as a new product, only
 used. Which is tough, as it would probably fail soon anyway.

 Anyone have experience replacing these? Any advice on best model to fit
 inside the MDD case?


I have one with a dying Power Supply as well.  I've been researching with
Google and one guy has a write up where he carves up the existing PS case
and install the guts from an ATX PS into it.  It looks pretty good when
he's done but it's not for the non-technical user to do.  I've also seen
people just tie strap an ATX into the case and splice the motherboard
connector from the old power supply onto it.  Not elegant but workable. 
ATX power supplies don't have the 25 volts needed for an ADC monitor but
most people don't use those anyway.  If you do need it there is a guy on
ebay that sells rebuilt original MMD power supplies.  Not cheap but a
fair price.

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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[Frank Dutra]

One by one, my MDD G4 collection has seen their power supplies fail.
It seems the exact form factor is not available as a new product, 
only used. Which is tough, as it would probably fail soon anyway.


Anyone have experience replacing these? Any advice on best model to 
fit inside the MDD case?


I bought an ATX 400W supply and waited to start the conversion 
process. Now that I tested it, it's a DOA. My mistake waiting so 
long, but though I'd ask here before throwing more money at this.





FWIW,

I put an ATX 500 Watt unit ($25 new from Amazon) in my Mystic. I'd 
say you don't need to worry about the size and mounting holes as they 
seem fairly standard/compatible, but should be concerned about the 
orientation of the power plug, fan outlet, and wiring harness. Amazon 
had several units/models to choose from. Also, ATX doesn't have the 
28 v  lead which I didn't need as I'm not using an ADC monitor. There 
may be other issues with the MDD that I'm not aware of like waking 
from sleep,,, YMMV

--
Frank Dutra

PO Box 3402
Nantucket MA  02584

mailto: fdut...@gmail.com

Voice: (508) 292-1528
FAX:   (815) 377-2407


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Re: MDD G4 Power supply recomendations?

[No No]

On Feb 19, 2013, at 2:33 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:


One by one, my MDD G4 collection has seen their power supplies fail.
It seems the exact form factor is not available as a new product,  
only used. Which is tough, as it would probably fail soon anyway.


Anyone have experience replacing these? Any advice on best model to  
fit inside the MDD case?


I bought an ATX 400W supply and waited to start the conversion  
process. Now that I tested it, it's a DOA. My mistake waiting so  
long, but though I'd ask here before throwing more money at this.


Hey Joe and others:

There is a New York company that rebuilds/repairs the G4 MDD power  
supply.  Just use Google to search for New York, G4 MDD, rebuild Power  
Supply.  They want about $80 for the job.


Bob

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MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Click]

I saw a thread a while back 
(here)https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?fromgroups#!topic/macos9/omLso5j1dkU 
about 
OS 9 native boot on a FW800 MDD machine.  I just acquired one of these and 
am curious if anyone got it to work.  I very much need a native OS9 boot 
machine.  Is the workaround on a FW800 G4 (mine's a dual) limited to the 
Tiger OS?  I have tried the procedure of creating the Apple Partition Map 
new partition on a new HD, copying the contents of the OS9general.dmg to 
it.  Installed the drive as the internal slave HD. Seems to work fine 
otherwisebut no luck on startup with the option key depressed-it only 
sees Leopard.

Was there an additional procedure to this?  I'm willing to jump through a 
few hoops if necessary to get this going---if anyone can verify that it's 
something that can be (has been) done.

Thanks,
Tom in Monroe, WA

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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Alex Sciortino]

IIRC MDDs don't support OS9. 

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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[John Carmonne]

On Feb 16, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Alex Sciortino wrote:


IIRC MDDs don't support OS9.

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MDD F/W800's don't boot OS9, The FW/400 does.


John Carmonne
Broadway Mfg Inc.
broadway...@gmail.com
714 335 6925





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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Tom Singleton]

Yes, that is the point.  They are not supposed to and don't as a standard,
but if you look at the thread, it has evidently been done with a fairly
simple workaround.  That goes to the nature of my query.

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Alex Sciortino zeosr...@gmail.com wrote:

 IIRC MDDs don't support OS9.

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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 16, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Click wrote:


I very much need a native OS9 boot machine.


Why won't Classic suffice?

Is the workaround on a FW800 G4 (mine's a dual) limited to the Tiger  
OS?


The MDD FW800 supports Leopard 10.5.8.


Was there an additional procedure to this?


I'm highly skeptical of these reports of booting OS 9 on FW800 or G5.  
This ability to boot will be set in firmware I believe. The ONLY  
plausible report I read was the possibility that Apple gave alternate  
firmware to developers that had the ability to boot OS 9; or that  
someone hacked the firmware to support OS 9 (you'd also need a FW800  
hack). I don't believe any of the threads cited, where's the YouTube  
video? We once had a guy fake a video showing Snow Leopard purportedly  
booting on a G5. People say crazy things, and some people just lie, or  
are honestly mistaken. It's likely the friend's MDD wasn't a FW800  
model, but rather just a FW400 model.


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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[John Carmonne]

On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:


On Feb 16, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Click wrote:


I very much need a native OS9 boot machine.


Why won't Classic suffice?



In my case I use a CAD/CAM program $15,000.00 that incorporates a  
Rainbow hardware dongle that requires OS9 boots the Eve extension, so  
some of us really do need native OS9.
No work around for this dongle extension in Classic so far. I would  
think after 20+ years it  could be done but no cigar:-)


John Carmonne
Broadway Mfg Inc.
broadway...@gmail.com
714 335 6925





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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Click]

Thanks for the response, Kris


 *Why won't Classic suffice? *

 I have done everything that I know to get a program to run in Classic 
 using a mini G4, but it does not perform certain critical output (file 
 write and report generation) functions.  My understanding is that there are 
 certain programs (this was written in mid-nineties, I think) for which this 
 is true.  Not every program is completely functional in Classic.   

 *The MDD FW800 supports Leopard 10.5.8. *

 

 I think that I noted in my original comment that I am working in Leopard. 
  I had noted that since the earlier posted stated that he had success in 
 Tiger, perhaps this was something to note

 


 *People say crazy things, and some people just lie, or are honestly 
 mistaken. It's likely the friend's MDD wasn't a FW800   
 model, but rather just a FW400 model. *

 


 Agreed and noted. On the other hand, I have seen the reports of this 
 result more than once with similar procedures, and also have seen some 
 interesting non-Apple workarounds in my time, so thought it wouldn't hurt 
 to poll the experts here.  


Thanks again for your comments.
 

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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 16, 2013, at 2:13 PM, John Carmonne wrote:

In my case I use a CAD/CAM program $15,000.00 that incorporates a  
Rainbow hardware dongle that requires OS9 boots the Eve extension,  
so some of us really do need native OS9.
No work around for this dongle extension in Classic so far. I would  
think after 20+ years it  could be done but no cigar:-)


Don't know anything about Rainbow Sentinel dongles, but a company that  
was founded here in Topeka, NewTek, uses these dongles for their  
LightWave software, and they have a way to use LightWave in Classic as  
long as the USBSentinel, RainbowUSBSHim are located in the OS 9  
extensions folder, and the Eve3.framework from the OS X Sentinel  
Driver installer package is installed for OS X. This may work for you?  
See here:


http://forums.newtek.com/archive/index.php/t-13857.html

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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 16, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Click wrote:


Why won't Classic suffice?

I have done everything that I know to get a program to run in  
Classic using a mini G4, but it does not perform certain critical  
output (file write and report generation) functions.  My  
understanding is that there are certain programs (this was written  
in mid-nineties, I think) for which this is true.  Not every program  
is completely functional in Classic.


Yes, I understand, but usually the problem is a hardware issue rather  
than a software issue. John's Rainbow Sentinel USB dongle is such a  
hardware issue. Others would be older printers, scanners, plotters, or  
other hardware that had no OS X support. Normally software things like  
file write and report generation are handled correctly within the  
Classic environment.


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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[David W. Morris]

I also have some Avid Audio/Video equipment and software that will  
only work with a native OS9 booting Mac computer, which is why I am  
keeping my dual 1.25GHz G4 PowerMac (upgraded to dual 1.42GHz G4 CPU  
module from the FW800 G4), even though I also have my dual 2.7GHz G5  
PowerMac.  The 8 channel Audio switcher/blender and 4 channel video  
switcher/overlay and post processing software will only work from an  
OS9 Mac that is a native boot, not a Mac running in Classic mode.





On Feb 16, 2013, at 12:13 PM, John Carmonne wrote:



On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:


On Feb 16, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Click wrote:


I very much need a native OS9 boot machine.


Why won't Classic suffice?



In my case I use a CAD/CAM program $15,000.00 that incorporates a  
Rainbow hardware dongle that requires OS9 boots the Eve extension,  
so some of us really do need native OS9.
No work around for this dongle extension in Classic so far. I would  
think after 20+ years it  could be done but no cigar:-)


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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[David W. Morris]

Newtek!  A name from the past that continues to try to stay alive in  
the world of intensely competitive 3D Model Rendering/Animation/ 
Compositing/Video Post Processing world.  Considering the processing  
power needed to run modern versions of LightWave 3D (or any other  
company's 3D software), I would think that anyone wanting to run that  
class of software would be running it on a more powerful (probably x86/ 
x64) computer architecture, instead of a G4 PPC machine running  
MacOS9.x, but then I still have a couple of Motorola 68060 @50MHz  
Amiga computers with LightWave3D installed on them that get booted  
once or twice a year, so who am I to criticize anyone wanting to run  
LightWave 3D on their G4 PowerMac's.



On Feb 16, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:


On Feb 16, 2013, at 2:13 PM, John Carmonne wrote:

In my case I use a CAD/CAM program $15,000.00 that incorporates a  
Rainbow hardware dongle that requires OS9 boots the Eve extension,  
so some of us really do need native OS9.
No work around for this dongle extension in Classic so far. I would  
think after 20+ years it  could be done but no cigar:-)


Don't know anything about Rainbow Sentinel dongles, but a company  
that was founded here in Topeka, NewTek, uses these dongles for  
their LightWave software, and they have a way to use LightWave in  
Classic as long as the USBSentinel, RainbowUSBSHim are located in  
the OS 9 extensions folder, and the Eve3.framework from the OS X  
Sentinel Driver installer package is installed for OS X. This may  
work for you? See here:


http://forums.newtek.com/archive/index.php/t-13857.html


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Re: MDD G4 Leopard native OS 9 boot

[Click]

 


 Yes, I understand, but usually the problem is a hardware issue rather   
 than a software issue. 


Well, the behavior is interesting.  The total report as printed on an OS 9 
G3 should be, let's say, 4 pages: 3 detail sheets followed without 
interruption or intervention, by a summary page and a small file written to 
disk.  In other words it appears to the user to be one report printed in 
one piece and a small file being created for subsequent use.

In Classic just the first three pages print and then the program appears to 
end normally.  But the final report page and disk file don't happen. 
 Regardless of the printer chosen. So in essence we get an incomplete 
report, 3 pages out of 4, and no disk file.  Incomplete processing, but 
normal termination, based on appearance.

Beats me.  

Works fine in any OS from 7 through 9, but I can't get it to work on a Mac 
Mini G4 Tiger in Classic. I understand the comment, but from what I can 
see, though, there's not much hardware involved here.  But obviously I'm 
missing something. 

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Re: ----------- erratic g4 mdd powering on and sleep problems

[rumble]

thanks
i swapped the battery with one from another mac and got it running again 
but it took several tries of the power button.
i'm in the process of moving all my data and retiring the machine.


On Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:36:10 PM UTC-5, joh...@pharmacy.arizona.edu 
wrote:


 On Jan 10, 2013, at 12:14 PM, rumble rum...@metrocast.net javascript: 
 wrote: 

  i have an old mdd running tiger, and every once in a while if i put it 
 to sleep overnight, then come back, it has actually powered itself back on, 
 and sometimes i find that it has shut itself off when i come back in the 
 morning. 

 Nearly dead PRAM batteries can cause all sorts of issues with G4 towers; 
 I'd look there first, particularly if it's intermittent. 

 However the failure mode you're describing is very similar to failing 
 power supplies in Quicksilver models; I believe the PS in the MDD is 
 different, but if swapping in a new PRAM battery doesn't fix it, I'd look 
 to replacing the PS. 

 -- 
 Bruce Johnson 
 University of Arizona 
 College of Pharmacy 
 Information Technology Group 

 Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs 




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Re: ----------- erratic g4 mdd powering on and sleep problems

[Kris Tilford]

On Jan 11, 2013, at 2:28 PM, rumble wrote:


but it took several tries of the power button.


Sounds like a flakey power button.
Likely a mechanical issue rather than an electrical issue.

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----------- erratic g4 mdd powering on and sleep problems

[rumble]

i have an old mdd running tiger, and every once in a while if i put it to 
sleep overnight, then come back, it has actually powered itself back on, 
and sometimes i find that it has shut itself off when i come back in the 
morning.

when it does this i have a hard time getting it to power back on again and 
i usually have to disconnect the ac power, then press and hold the power on 
button for a second, then plug the ac cord back in and it would power on 
again when i pressed the button.

yesterday i couldn't get it to power back on and i unplugged the ac and hit 
the pmu button for a few seconds then plugged everything back in
and it came on again.

last night i actually powered it down, and today it will no power back on 
no matter what i try.

when i push the power button on it briefly lights up then goes out. if i do 
it a few times in a row the light will stop coming on, unless i leave it 
alone for several seconds.


is my power supply dead or is there some other problem?


thanks

rb

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Re: ----------- erratic g4 mdd powering on and sleep problems

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jan 10, 2013, at 12:14 PM, rumble rum...@metrocast.net wrote:

 i have an old mdd running tiger, and every once in a while if i put it to 
 sleep overnight, then come back, it has actually powered itself back on, and 
 sometimes i find that it has shut itself off when i come back in the morning.

Nearly dead PRAM batteries can cause all sorts of issues with G4 towers; I'd 
look there first, particularly if it's intermittent.

However the failure mode you're describing is very similar to failing power 
supplies in Quicksilver models; I believe the PS in the MDD is different, but 
if swapping in a new PRAM battery doesn't fix it, I'd look to replacing the PS.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: ----------- erratic g4 mdd powering on and sleep problems

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: --- erratic g4 mdd powering on and sleep problems
Date:Thursday, 10. January 2013
From:Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
 Nearly dead PRAM batteries can cause all sorts of issues with G4 towers;
 I'd look there first, particularly if it's intermittent.

I’ve worked with a couple of Power Macs G3 BW up to G5’s, and also with a 
Power Mac G4 MDD.

It *always* worked without a PRAM battery.
It sometimes *did not* work with an old PRAM battery that needed replacement.

So: I would see what it does without a PRAM battery. Remove it. Disconnect the 
AC. Wait a few minutes. Power it on, holding Cmd-Opt-P-R. See what it does.

 However the failure mode you're describing is very similar to failing power
 supplies in Quicksilver models; I believe the PS in the MDD is different,
 but if swapping in a new PRAM battery doesn't fix it, I'd look to
 replacing the PS.

Also a good guess.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: ----------- erratic g4 mdd powering on and sleep problems

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi rumble,

Op vrijdag 11 januari 2013 02:14:39 UTC+7 schreef rumble het volgende:


 is my power supply dead or is there some other problem?

 I had the same problems like you on my 1.25 MDD. Replacing the battery, 
mainboard and PSU didn't help in my case, it appeared to be a bad CPU.

I got a cheap dual 1.25 and everything is better than ever before thanks to 
the increased speed of the dual CPU. When the MDD made too much noise in 
the summer - the dual running hotter than the single - I got the special 
developer's SW with which you can switch of one of the CPUs with software. 
Works well.

Anyway I wish I was wrong in your case but there it is, my two cents ...

Best of luck, Jörg.

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Follow-up: ADC - AGP video card issues for MDD and G5

[frrob]

Hello again:

You'll recall my travails last week with the Radeon 9800 Pro that I 
couldn't get to work properly/reliably in my 1.25 gHz DP MDD. I finally 
gave up on it, and reverted to the stock 9000. 

But I purchased a 9600 XT on eBay, which I received yesterday. The machine 
wouldn't power on with the card until I taped pins 3  11, which didn't 
surprise me. But I taped the pins and the machine started right up, and the 
card works fine, with a couple of caveats, which I'll get to in a moment.

However, much to my chagrin, I discovered that the 9600 XT, and presumably 
other AGP/ADC video cards meant originally for the G5, does not have its 
ADC connector in the same place as the 9000, or other G4 AGP/ADC cards. The 
ADC connector for the 9600 is further back on the card than that of the 
9000. Color me stupid, but, never having poked around inside a G5, I did 
not know that the G5 and G4 had different physical locations for the ADC 
connector. I figured ADC was ADC. D'oh!

So, though the card works, I've really gained nothing by getting the 9600. 
I wanted an AGP/ADC card into which I could just plug my Apple 23 inch ADC 
display. I can use my DVI - ADC adapter with the card, but what I wanted 
was a straight ADC connection. 

So, first question: my subsequent research indicates that the only AGP/ADC 
card that offers Core Image hardware acceleration, and will physically work 
with the ADC connector of the MDD, is the Radeon 9700, which, apparently, 
had a version that was designed for the MDD. Is this correct, or are there 
others I'm not aware of?

Furthermore, there is one issue with the 9600 when I use it with the 
DVI-ADC adapter and my 23 inch cinema display. For some reason, and this 
*only* happens with the DVI-ADC adapter and the cinema display, when I load 
pages in Safari that have Flash content, Safari either hangs and becomes 
unresponsive, or quits altogether. I then get a dialog that says Safari 
has quit unexpectedly. This may have been caused by the Flash 10.x 
plug-in. This only happens with the 9600 - DVI - ADC - 23 inch cinema 
combination. Any ideas what is going on here? I am guessing, but perhaps 
for some reason the Core Image hardware acceleration of the 9600 (which the 
9000 doesn't have) doesn't play well with Flash and ADC? I can't imagine 
why, but there it is. 

Finally, my second question, which may be moot, but: has anyone ever tried 
to somehow adapt the ADC connector of one of these G5 ADC cards to the ADC 
connector of an MDD? It seems to me that it could be done and could work. 
The ADC connector only has two leads, which supply power for the display, 
correct? It seems to me that you might be able to come up with some kind of 
franken-connector or jumper that would let you go straight ADC. Anyone know 
anything out there? 

Thanks, 

Rob J. 

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Re: Follow-up: ADC - AGP video card issues for MDD and G5

[Peter Devlin]

On 18/12/2012 18:35, frrob fr...@earthlink.net wrote:

 Finally, my second question, which may be moot, but: has anyone ever tried to
 somehow adapt the ADC connector of one of these G5 ADC cards to the ADC
 connector of an MDD? It seems to me that it could be done and could work. The
 ADC connector only has two leads, which supply power for the display, correct?
 It seems to me that you might be able to come up with some kind of
 franken-connector or jumper that would let you go straight ADC. Anyone know
 anything out there?

I've seen a G5 AGP Pro 8x card converted to work in a non pro G4 4x slot
- not a pretty sight. But afaik the adc in the mdd has two connections in
the agp slot - thus the taping of pins 3 and 11 on 8x cards which I believe
in the mac slot supply power for the adc connection. In between the 4x agp
mdd and the 8x agp G5 the layout of the slot was converted to agp pro design
to keep adc - apple should have gone for dvi/vga at that point (had to
eventually) but they have always liked to have their proprietary video
connectors going way back...

Pete


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Re: 9600 Pro or XT as alternative to 9800 (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

[John Laughlin]

A Mac flashed 9700 works fine, too.  Been using one in my G4 Digital
Audio for at least two years, possibly three years.  No pins taped on
it...

-J

On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:13 PM, frrob fr...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Greetings all!

 On a related, but slightly different note:

 What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT)
 instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay. Since
 they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they don't
 appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be another
 problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they draw extra power
 through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw less power?

  I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3  11, but that's not a big deal.

 With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of Core Image
 and Quartz Extreme.

 Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that?


 Thanks,

 Rob J.


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Re: 9600 Pro or XT as alternative to 9800 (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

[Alex Sciortino]

I may be wrong, but my old 9600 would work with a G4. The 9600 is from a G5. 
The card is 8x but the Mac is 4x.

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Throwing in the towel (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

[frrob]

Hello again!

Well, I have given up on the 9800. I spent several hours again yesterday 
trying unsuccessfully to get the MDD to boot normally. 

I finally removed *every* hard drive except the boot drive (OWC 115 GB 
SSD), and every PCI card. No joy. 

I replaced the PRAM battery - that didn't help either. 

I even remove the tape from pins 3  11. No help there either.

In fact, I could only get the machine to boot without the flashing molex 
warning once. Out of some 20 attempts to start the machine, on all but one 
attempt, regardless of what I did, I got the flashing molex warning. 

I tested continuity on all the molex splitter leads, and all were OK. 

So, I'm guessing that there may be a defect in the card. Perhaps a cracked 
trace, or something. 

I will hang on to the card and see if it works if I ever get a G5. But for 
now I am back to the 9000. I've purchased a 9600 XT on eBay. Perhaps I will 
have better luck with that. 

Thanks again for all your suggestions. 

Rob J. 



On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:16:52 AM UTC-5, Alex Sciortino wrote:

 I may be wrong, but my old 9600 would work with a G4. The 9600 is from a 
 G5. The card is 8x but the Mac is 4x.

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Re: Throwing in the towel (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

[Richard Gerome]

  I don't know if anyone talked about this or not? Is this a PC 9800? If it is it needs to have the rom flashed besides taping 3 and 11 pins...-Original Message-
From: frrob <fr...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Dec 13, 2012 3:05 PM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Throwing in the towel (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

Hello again!Well, I have given up on the 9800. I spent several hours again yesterday trying unsuccessfully to get the MDD to boot "normally". I finally removed *every* hard drive except the boot drive (OWC 115 GB SSD), and every PCI card. No joy. I replaced the PRAM battery - that didn't help either. I even remove the tape from pins 3  11. No help there either.In fact, I could only get the machine to boot without the flashing molex warning once. Out of some 20 attempts to start the machine, on all but one attempt, regardless of what I did, I got the flashing molex warning. I tested continuity on all the molex splitter leads, and all were OK. So, I'm guessing that there may be a defect in the card. Perhaps a cracked trace, or something. I will hang on to the card and see if it works if I ever get a G5. But for now I am back to the 9000. I've purchased a 9600 XT on eBay. Perhaps I will have better luck with that. Thanks again for all your suggestions. Rob J. On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:16:52 AM UTC-5, Alex Sciortino wrote: I may be wrong, but my old 9600 would work with a G4. The 9600 is from a  G5. The card is 8x but the Mac is 4x.-- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtmlTo post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.comFor more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Michael McMurtrey]

For what it's worth, I recently installed a 256 MB Radeon 9600 (AGP)  
in my MDD, which has two hard drives (both on the ATA bus) and have  
had no problems whatsoever. System Profiler reports  Core Image:  
Hardware Accelerated and Quartz Extreme: Supported.


Michael McMurtrey
Carrollton, TX

On Dec 12, 2012, at 5:48 AM, g3-5-list@googlegroups.com wrote:


  Today's Topic Summary
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/topics

MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card [5 Updates]
 MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card
faithie999 faithie...@hotmail.com Dec 11 03:55AM -0800

i was going to suggest the same thing, if only for a last  
troubleshooting

step.

if you have either a spare PC power supply, or a PC that you can  
borrow
the power supply from temporarily, you could try powering the video  
card
from the separate power supply. assuming the borrowed PS doesn't  
have a
switch, google for the pinout for the 20 (or 24) pin connector, and  
see

which pins you need to short together to turn the PS on.

ken

t...@prismnet.com t...@prismnet.com Dec 11 08:41AM -0800

On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti  
wrote:

 had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W.
 Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if  
the two PS

 are interchangeable.

Are we sure these are different versions and not just another  
example of
what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600? In that older case, some  
times
the input wattage of the power supply was listed. Other times the  
output
wattage of the power supply was listed. Of course, the input wattage  
was

considerable higher back then. This sent a number of devoted modders
scurrying around hunting for the higher power supply, even though  
both
numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were  
simply

describing different qualities of the same object.

I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400. 90% efficiency is
perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would  
expect

from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not
certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W  
is the

output wattage of the MDD supplies.

Jeff Walther

frrob fr...@earthlink.net Dec 11 09:36AM -0800

Jeff:

From photos of several of these PSUs (both 360 and 400 watt  
versions) for
sale on eBay, it seems pretty clear to me that these figures are  
output

wattage. From my rough calculations based on input figures on the same
PSUs, it would seem that the input wattage is between 700-800 watts.


Rob J.




gifutiger gifuti...@gmail.com Dec 11 04:57PM -0800

Greetings,

If you need drivers you should be able to get them on ATI web page.
When I was using my G4 AGP Graphic 400 I need to install the drivers  
(I think there was2) before everything worked Okay.
Well my problem was, if the system went to sleep upon wake up the  
screen was scrambled, and the only way out was, Shutdown and restart.

But with the drivers installed sleep  wake up was good.

If you can't find the drivers let me know, I'm sure that I still  
have them.


Cheers

Harry

frrob fr...@earthlink.net Dec 11 12:13PM -0800

Greetings all!

On a related, but slightly different note:

What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT)
instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay.  
Since
they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they  
don't

appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be
another problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they  
draw extra
power through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw  
less

power?

I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3  11, but that's not a big deal.

With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of  
Core Image

and Quartz Extreme.

Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that?


Thanks,

Rob J.

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[faithie999]

i was going to suggest the same thing, if only for a last troubleshooting 
step.

if you have either a spare PC power supply, or a PC that you can borrow 
the power supply from temporarily, you could try powering the video card 
from the separate power supply.  assuming the borrowed PS doesn't have a 
switch, google for the pinout for the 20 (or 24) pin connector, and see 
which pins you need to short together to turn the PS on.

ken



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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[t...@prismnet.com]

On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote:


  Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there 
 are 
  400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is 
  the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? 
 AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs 
 had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W. 
 Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS 
 are interchangeable. 


Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of 
what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600?  In that older case, some times 
the input wattage of the power supply was listed.  Other times the output 
wattage of the power supply was listed.   Of course, the input wattage was 
considerable higher back then.   This sent a number of devoted modders 
scurrying around hunting for the higher power supply, even though both 
numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply 
describing different qualities of the same object.

I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400.90% efficiency is 
perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect 
from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not 
certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the 
output wattage of the MDD supplies.

Jeff Walther
 

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Jeff:

From photos of several of these PSUs (both 360 and 400 watt versions) for 
sale on eBay, it seems pretty clear to me that these figures are output 
wattage. From my rough calculations based on input figures on the same 
PSUs, it would seem that the input wattage is between 700-800 watts. 


Rob J.



On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:41:16 AM UTC-5, tr...@prismnet.com wrote:



 On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote:


  Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there 
 are 
  400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? 
 Is 
  the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? 
 AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs 
 had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W. 
 Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two 
 PS 
 are interchangeable. 


 Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of 
 what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600?  In that older case, some times 
 the input wattage of the power supply was listed.  Other times the output 
 wattage of the power supply was listed.   Of course, the input wattage was 
 considerable higher back then.   This sent a number of devoted modders 
 scurrying around hunting for the higher power supply, even though both 
 numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply 
 describing different qualities of the same object.

 I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400.90% efficiency is 
 perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect 
 from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not 
 certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the 
 output wattage of the MDD supplies.

 Jeff Walther
  


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MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[gifutiger]

Greetings,

If you need drivers you should be able to get them on ATI web page.
When I was using my G4 AGP Graphic 400 I need to install the drivers (I think 
there was2) before everything worked Okay.
Well my problem was, if the system went to sleep upon wake up the screen was 
scrambled, and the only way out was, Shutdown and restart.
But with the drivers installed sleep  wake up was good.

If you can't find the drivers let me know, I'm sure that I still have them.

Cheers

Harry

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9600 Pro or XT as alternative to 9800 (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

[frrob]

Greetings all!

On a related, but slightly different note:

What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT) 
instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay. Since 
they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they don't 
appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be 
another problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they draw extra 
power through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw less 
power?

 I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3  11, but that's not a big deal. 

With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of Core Image 
and Quartz Extreme. 

Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that?


Thanks, 

Rob J.
 

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Charles Lenington]

On 12/7/12 15:34 PM, frrob wrote:

Hello!

I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon
9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC).
My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run


snip===

Did you get a driver disk w/ it? If not there is on Lem swap.

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Flags:

I'll check the swap list for that driver. However, according to the ATI 
website, Leopard has the most up-to-date driver for the 9800 in it already. 

Thanks,

Rob J.



On Monday, December 10, 2012 7:35:30 AM UTC-5, flags wrote:

 On 12/7/12 15:34 PM, frrob wrote: 
  Hello! 
  
  I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 
  9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). 
  My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run 

 snip=== 

 Did you get a driver disk w/ it? If not there is on Lem swap. 


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Bob:

I'll check that heat sink and screws when I get back. 

Thanks, 

Rob J.


On Monday, December 10, 2012 1:58:59 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:

 Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying. 
 About the full fan speed.  Mine did that when I first got it (used).   
 The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it.  I put new Arctic   
 Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight.  It quieted   
 down. 

 Bob 


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Valter:

I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a power hog all right.

I had, by my own rough calculation, thought that the card might draw 45-50 
watts. But I could see that 75 might well overtax the power supply.

Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are 
400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is 
the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? 

If the PSU is really the culprit, I would replace my 360 watt PSU with the 
400 watt version before I repaired the 360 watt one. 

Finally, I did reset the PMU, twice. I forgot to mention that. No effect on 
the problem. 

I'll let the group know what happens. 

Thanks, 

Rob J.



On Sunday, December 9, 2012 10:17:34 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote:

 Il giorno 10/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto: 

  The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have 
  suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and 
 the 
  USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I 
  don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty 
  much need USB 2.0. 
 I agree; this suggestion was not meant to make you run an handicapped 
 Mac 
 ;-) but to make absolutely sure the problem was about not enough power. 
 Once you knew it was that (or not), you could think about something else. 

 From what you reported, anyway, I don't think the problem is lack of 
 power. 
 But IMO is worth making the above check, just to be sure. 

  The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an 
 Apple 
  ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard 
  drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power 
  from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power 
 be 
  some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800? 
 Yes and no. A 23 monitor should draw around 40W; the 9800 obviously needs 
 more. 

  The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog 
 From what I gathered on the Net, it should draw around 75W under normal 
 conditions (maybe more when running 3D intensive applications). 

  It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor 
 connected 
  to it. 
 Maybe something got stuck in the power mangement unit. 
 Did you try to reset the PMU? ( Power Management Unit) 
 See Apple's page: 
 http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1939 

 (knock on wood, it might have something to do with the 9800 issue as well; 
 worth a try) 




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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Peter Devlin]

On 10/12/2012 02:41, frrob fr...@earthlink.net wrote:

 Hello again everyone!
 
 Again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions.
 
 Sooner or later, when you keep banging your head against a wall, you reach a
 point of saying f*%k it. It's not worth the trouble. I am about at that
 point. I have spent almost all my free time for the last 2 days farting around
 with this thing. 

The 'not connected' diagram is only supposed to show up when there is no
power to the card - so if the molex splitter is good and tests out with a hd
or an optical then the problem may lie with the molex socket on the card or
it's connections to the rest of the card - maybe a damaged trace or a
resistor missing.

Pete


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 11/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto:

 Valter:
 
 I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a power hog all right.
It was the most powerful card of its times... power always has a price. ;-)

 Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are
 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is
 the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what?
AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs
had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W.
Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two PS
are interchangeable.

 My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a
 larger monitor at full resolution
I don't know about your 9000 card, but I think 64MB are more than enough to
drive high-res monitor and/or dual monitors (as long as the card has two
ports). I did run dual monitors (21 and 15) on a meager 32MB Geforce 2 MX.

Unless for larger monitor you mean a 30 display or such (that might
require a beefier card).


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Charles Lenington]

On 12/10/12 22:14 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote:

Il giorno 11/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto:


Valter:

I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a power hog all right.

It was the most powerful card of its times... power always has a price. ;-)



If you can find an old AT power supply, they have a switch to power 
on/off. I have in the past used one to power extra external hard drives 
and fans for cooling the drives . Of course this requires leaving case 
open, or cutting and splicing after running through a hole.


This dual 867 MDD has 2 hds under PS (400 watt), 2 HDs setting on top of 
2 optical drives but belong under and from time to time up to 2 sata 
drive loose outside case on a pci card, and a pci usb card. There is a 
5 fan on top of processor heat sink and 2 1/2 fan hanging from airport 
cage (both 12 volt DC). About a foot away I have 2 5 ac fans blowing at 
MB. Also there is a fire dvdR burner and assorted firewire and/or usb 
hard drives attached. I been starting to think it's time to power from 
another source especially if I add more SATA and Firewire controllers.


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[No No]

Hello Rob:

I forgot to mention, the tightening  sequence is important also:   
Right front, Left rear, Left front, Right rear.  The right rear is a  
sheet metal mount from the case and can have a lot of variance in  
height.


Bob

On Dec 10, 2012, at 8:32 PM, frrob wrote:


Bob:

I'll check that heat sink and screws when I get back.

Thanks,

Rob J.


On Monday, December 10, 2012 1:58:59 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:
Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying.
About the full fan speed.  Mine did that when I first got it (used).
The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it.  I put new Arctic
Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight.  It quieted
down.

Bob

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 08/12/12 19:42, frrob ha scritto:

 As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one
 empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not.
IMHO, four drives, three PCI cards (your MDD should have 4 slots) AND the
Radeon 9800... Equals too much power for the standard 360W (or 400W) power
supply.
No surprise it could be chocking...

As someone else said, try with just one HD connected (and the 9800 connected
to the optical drive power line).
If it works... You know where the problem is. :-)


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Hello again everyone!

Again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. 

Sooner or later, when you keep banging your head against a wall, you reach 
a point of saying f*%k it. It's not worth the trouble. I am about at that 
point. I have spent almost all my free time for the last 2 days farting 
around with this thing. 

As you might gather from the above, I have not succeeded in solving the 
problem. 

I plugged the molex splitter into the optical drive power connector, and 
disconnected one of the 4 hard drives.  This did not solve the problem. 
However, using the optical bay power lead made for a more efficient cable 
run to the 9800 card, so I will keep that if I get the card working 
properly. I then disconnected another hard drive and removed the unused PCI 
card. Still no joy. 

Thinking the problem might be driver/software related, I installed the 
August '95 ATI ROM update. No effect on the problem. 

Then I taped the infamous 3  11 pins. I double and triple checked with a 
magnifying glass to make sure those pins were completely covered, and no 
other pins were. This too did not solve the problem. 

So, I am down to the Leopard boot drive (an OWC 115 GB SSD), and my SCSI 
raid set (2 cheetah LVD drives). I assume that the SSD draws less power 
than a standard drive? I am down to 2 pci cards: a USB 2.0 card, and the 
ATTO UL3D that drives the RAID set. 

The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have 
suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the 
USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I 
don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty 
much need USB 2.0. 

The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple 
ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard 
drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power 
from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be 
some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800? 

The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog if it can't get enough 
power to run when I'm only running 2 PCI cards and 3 hard drives (one of 
them an SSD). 

And another thing, another con to the whole project: When I do not have 
an ADC monitor plugged in to the MDD, the fans do not spin down to a slower 
speed after startup, and cycle according to use. They run full blast 
constantly, giving the well-known MDD wind tunnel effect. This happens 
even when I connect the stock 9000 card to a non-ADC monitor using the DVI 
port. This is very annoying to me, and I'm not sure if I could put up with 
that indefinitely. 

It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected 
to it. 

So, I am back to the stock 9000 card for now. I have to be away for a 
couple of days, so will have to come back to this when I return. 

Thanks again,

Rob J.



On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:13:13 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote:

 Il giorno 08/12/12 19:42, frrob ha scritto: 

  As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one 
  empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not. 
 IMHO, four drives, three PCI cards (your MDD should have 4 slots) AND the 
 Radeon 9800... Equals too much power for the standard 360W (or 400W) power 
 supply. 
 No surprise it could be chocking... 

 As someone else said, try with just one HD connected (and the 9800 
 connected 
 to the optical drive power line). 
 If it works... You know where the problem is. :-) 




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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Robert Johansen]

Tom:

Thanks for the reply.

I recall that on some machines, a bad or marginal PRAM battery can  
cause all kinds of goofiness.


But, I am not losing dates/times, etc., which is the classic symptom  
of a bad battery.


However, I will try the new PRAM battery next.


Thanks,

Rob J.



On Dec 8, 2012, at 12:19 AM, technophobic_...@comcast.net wrote:


On 12/7/12, frrob wrote:

I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8 If I shut down the  
machine and then try to power it back on, one of two things  
happens: (1) it won't power on at all The solution I have  
found...unplug the machine for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug  
it back in. Then it will start up normally.


I think that same problem in my case is caused by a dead battery  
which I haven't taken the time to replace.

--
T.T.


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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 10/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto:

 The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have
 suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the
 USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I
 don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty
 much need USB 2.0.
I agree; this suggestion was not meant to make you run an handicapped Mac
;-) but to make absolutely sure the problem was about not enough power.
Once you knew it was that (or not), you could think about something else.

From what you reported, anyway, I don't think the problem is lack of power.
But IMO is worth making the above check, just to be sure.

 The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple
 ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard
 drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power
 from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be
 some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800?
Yes and no. A 23 monitor should draw around 40W; the 9800 obviously needs
more.

 The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog
From what I gathered on the Net, it should draw around 75W under normal
conditions (maybe more when running 3D intensive applications).

 It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected
 to it. 
Maybe something got stuck in the power mangement unit.
Did you try to reset the PMU? ( Power Management Unit)
See Apple's page:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1939

(knock on wood, it might have something to do with the 9800 issue as well;
worth a try)


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