Slow iMac G3
Hi All I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 06:34 -0800, John Carmonne wrote: Hi All I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA John, The only two things I can think of which would possibly cause this would either be a bad L2 cache on the slow one, or a slow hard drive. Honestly, with the heat of a 600 MHz G3, and the lack of active cooling, I would place my bets on a bad cache. Caleb -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
At 6:34 AM -0800 2/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? OS? Fully updated? Other software involved? Slow in exactly what way? From your description we can't tell if the car won't go because it's missing a tire or if you left the garage door closed. Are there unexpected errors being thrown in the system log? Does Disk Utility say the disk(s) are ok etc? Have you run Apple's basic maintenance scripts? Have you used AppleJack to clean things out? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
In a message dated 2/16/10 7:44:20 AM, dantear...@gmail.com writes: I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? OS? Fully updated? Other software involved? Slow in exactly what way? From your description we can't tell if the car won't go because it's missing a tire or if you left the garage door closed. Are there unexpected errors being thrown in the system log? Does Disk Utility say the disk(s) are ok etc? Have you run Apple's basic maintenance scripts? Have you used AppleJack to clean things out? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. The slow is a beach ball for a while before opening and closing files. All three machines have the exact same HDD contents via CCC. All machines have the same exact 1GB RAM I have run mantaintence on all the iMac's Smart disk status is OK. One strange thing I do see on the slow one is the display will shimmer ever so slighty, can that be an indication of a crappy logic board? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 11:05 AM, carmo...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/16/10 7:44:20 AM, dantear...@gmail.com writes: I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? Slow in exactly what way? From your description we can't tell if the car won't go because it's missing a tire or if you left the garage door closed. The slow is a beach ball for a while before opening and closing files. All three machines have the exact same HDD contents via CCC. All machines have the same exact 1GB RAM I have run mantaintence on all the iMac's Smart disk status is OK. One strange thing I do see on the slow one is the display will shimmer ever so slighty, can that be an indication of a crappy logic board? 2 separate issues. Beach ball slow before opening and closing files points to HD problems. Waiting for the HD to spin up. Have you checked the energy saver pane to see what the settings are? My bet is a HD spin down on the slower machine and the beach ball is waiting for the spin up. That is ASSUMING that smart reporting is infallible. I would make good backups of the slow machine and have a spare HD at the ready. The shimmy I would guess is a bad crt, not logic board. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
In a message dated 2/16/10 8:22:28 AM, lgers...@gmail.com writes: On Feb 16, 2010, at 11:05 AM, carmo...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/16/10 7:44:20 AM, dantear...@gmail.com writes: I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? Slow in exactly what way? From your description we can't tell if the car won't go because it's missing a tire or if you left the garage door closed. The slow is a beach ball for a while before opening and closing files. All three machines have the exact same HDD contents via CCC. All machines have the same exact 1GB RAM I have run mantaintence on all the iMac's Smart disk status is OK. One strange thing I do see on the slow one is the display will shimmer ever so slighty, can that be an indication of a crappy logic board? 2 separate issues. Beach ball slow before opening and closing files points to HD problems. Waiting for the HD to spin up. Have you checked the energy saver pane to see what the settings are? My bet is a HD spin down on the slower machine and the beach ball is waiting for the spin up. That is ASSUMING that smart reporting is infallible. I would make good backups of the slow machine and have a spare HD at the ready. The shimmy I would guess is a bad crt, not logic board. Len I'll check the energy saver when I get home. However due to the fact that all three iMacs are an exact CCC of eachother wouldn't the preferences also be the same? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 11:50 AM, carmo...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/16/10 8:22:28 AM, lgers...@gmail.com writes: The slow is a beach ball for a while before opening and closing files. All three machines have the exact same HDD contents via CCC. All machines have the same exact 1GB RAM I have run mantaintence on all the iMac's Smart disk status is OK. One strange thing I do see on the slow one is the display will shimmer ever so slighty, can that be an indication of a crappy logic board? 2 separate issues. Beach ball slow before opening and closing files points to HD problems. Waiting for the HD to spin up. Have you checked the energy saver pane to see what the settings are? My bet is a HD spin down on the slower machine and the beach ball is waiting for the spin up. That is ASSUMING that smart reporting is infallible. I would make good backups of the slow machine and have a spare HD at the ready. The shimmy I would guess is a bad crt, not logic board. Len I'll check the energy saver when I get home. However due to the fact that all three iMacs are an exact CCC of eachother wouldn't the preferences also be the same? That assumes that no one has gone in and changed any settings. My overall bet is a soon to be failing HD that is not reporting SMART errors yet. I would get ready for a HD failure on the slow one. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:34 AM, John Carmonne wrote: I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? Hi John, Snarky Jim here. I see that a lot on the G3 iMacs that go through my hands on the way to kids and schools. Sometimes it's a hard drive about to fail, or software that's FUBAR. But usually it's a mismatch between RAM sticks, *especially* if the iMac is running OS X. To resolve the issue, the first thing I do is to check and replace the PRAM battery, if necessary. Then I do an Open Firmware reset (set-defaults, reset-nvram, reset-all). Then I run a bad sector test on the hard drive using Disk Utility while booted to an OS 9.2.1 retail CD. If the hard drive passes -- and in my experience that's a very thorough and reliable test -- then I boot the iMac from the Apple Hardware Test disk. Before running either the Quick or the Extended test I click on the Hardware tab and compare the specs for the sticks in the two RAM slots. If the specs on the two sticks are not identical (exception: amount of RAM can vary), then I swap out sticks until I get a matched pair even if the manufacturer is different. Then I run AHT. If there's still a problem, AHT will tell you where it is. (NOTE: AHT will not run in some early G3/350 and G3/400 iMacs.) Mismatched RAM sticks in a G3 iMac, in my experience, is the cause of slow running machines above and beyond any other possibility. The difference in CL 2 and CL 3 latency specs in a mismatched pair also causes kernel panics and freezes while booted into OS X. OS 9 is more tolerant, but the problem still crops up. Getting the right RAM is the most important thing you can do for an iMac G3. For example, I took in a basket case last Friday. The 500 MHz iMac was missing the bottom case and the EMI shield, but otherwise was more or less complete. It wouldn't boot, and I heard a small sizzle noise only during the first attempt to start it. So I took out the two RAM sticks, inserted one that I knew was good from a previous Apple Hardware Test, and the iMac started, chimed and booted. HTH, Jim Scott -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
In a message dated 2/16/10 10:36:22 AM, jesco...@gmail.com writes: On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:34 AM, John Carmonne wrote: I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? Hi John, Snarky Jim here. I see that a lot on the G3 iMacs that go through my hands on the way to kids and schools. Sometimes it's a hard drive about to fail, or software that's FUBAR. But usually it's a mismatch between RAM sticks, *especially* if the iMac is running OS X. To resolve the issue, the first thing I do is to check and replace the PRAM battery, if necessary. Then I do an Open Firmware reset (set-defaults, reset-nvram, reset-all). Then I run a bad sector test on the hard drive using Disk Utility while booted to an OS 9.2.1 retail CD. If the hard drive passes -- and in my experience that's a very thorough and reliable test -- then I boot the iMac from the Apple Hardware Test disk. Before running either the Quick or the Extended test I click on the Hardware tab and compare the specs for the sticks in the two RAM slots. If the specs on the two sticks are not identical (exception: amount of RAM can vary), then I swap out sticks until I get a matched pair even if the manufacturer is different. Then I run AHT. If there's still a problem, AHT will tell you where it is. (NOTE: AHT will not run in some early G3/350 and G3/400 iMacs.) Mismatched RAM sticks in a G3 iMac, in my experience, is the cause of slow running machines above and beyond any other possibility. The difference in CL 2 and CL 3 latency specs in a mismatched pair also causes kernel panics and freezes while booted into OS X. OS 9 is more tolerant, but the problem still crops up. Getting the right RAM is the most important thing you can do for an iMac G3. For example, I took in a basket case last Friday. The 500 MHz iMac was missing the bottom case and the EMI shield, but otherwise was more or less complete. It wouldn't boot, and I heard a small sizzle noise only during the first attempt to start it. So I took out the two RAM sticks, inserted one that I knew was good from a previous Apple Hardware Test, and the iMac started, chimed and booted. HTH, Jim Scott Thanks snarkY Jim LOL That all makes sense because the hard drive is original. And I have to check that the RAM sticks are compatibe, As I remember I bought 6 512s and installed all at the same time. I do have a new Pram battery in it, so when I get home I'm going to follow this step by step. I have the 9.2.2 disk and AHT for the G3 iMacs, so maybe I'll learn something this week:-) Yorba Linda USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 11:12 AM, carmo...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/16/10 10:36:22 AM, jesco...@gmail.com writes: On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:34 AM, John Carmonne wrote: I have 3 Imac G3s one 700MHz and two 600MHz. One of the iMac 600s is very slow compared to the other two. All machines have the same systems via CCC. The profiler specs are the same between the two 600s. I'm kinda stumped as to what could be problem. Anyone else have this trouble? Hi John, Snarky Jim here. I see that a lot on the G3 iMacs that go through my hands on the way to kids and schools. Sometimes it's a hard drive about to fail, or software that's FUBAR. But usually it's a mismatch between RAM sticks, *especially* if the iMac is running OS X. To resolve the issue, the first thing I do is to check and replace the PRAM battery, if necessary. Then I do an Open Firmware reset (set-defaults, reset-nvram, reset-all). Then I run a bad sector test on the hard drive using Disk Utility while booted to an OS 9.2.1 retail CD. If the hard drive passes -- and in my experience that's a very thorough and reliable test -- then I boot the iMac from the Apple Hardware Test disk. Before running either the Quick or the Extended test I click on the Hardware tab and compare the specs for the sticks in the two RAM slots. If the specs on the two sticks are not identical (exception: amount of RAM can vary), then I swap out sticks until I get a matched pair even if the manufacturer is different. Then I run AHT. If there's still a problem, AHT will tell you where it is. (NOTE: AHT will not run in some early G3/350 and G3/400 iMacs.) Mismatched RAM sticks in a G3 iMac, in my experience, is the cause of slow running machines above and beyond any other possibility. The difference in CL 2 and CL 3 latency specs in a mismatched pair also causes kernel panics and freezes while booted into OS X. OS 9 is more tolerant, but the problem still crops up. Getting the right RAM is the most important thing you can do for an iMac G3. For example, I took in a basket case last Friday. The 500 MHz iMac was missing the bottom case and the EMI shield, but otherwise was more or less complete. It wouldn't boot, and I heard a small sizzle noise only during the first attempt to start it. So I took out the two RAM sticks, inserted one that I knew was good from a previous Apple Hardware Test, and the iMac started, chimed and booted. HTH, Jim Scott Thanks snarkY Jim LOL That all makes sense because the hard drive is original. And I have to check that the RAM sticks are compatibe, As I remember I bought 6 512s and installed all at the same time. I do have a new Pram battery in it, so when I get home I'm going to follow this step by step. I have the 9.2.2 disk and AHT for the G3 iMacs, so maybe I'll learn something this week:-) Yorba Linda USA Well I Checked the ram and it's 2 of the 6 sticks I bought from OWC. But I'll check as you said when I get to the AHT step. Yes Dan the Garage door is open I did the open firmware reset, then booted 9.2.2 but disk first aid crashes after about 8 mins. So I booted 10.4 retail disk via USB and used Disk Utility from Tiger on the HDD I did permission repair first. It said it did a lot of repair here. the tires are round and black Then verify reported OK, and finally repair reported no repairs necessary, just to do every thing. I booted AHT the RAM shows DIMM0/j13 512 DIMM0/j14 512 , Apple profiler reports both to beSDRAM PC133-322 the glow plugs are good The extended AHT reported everything passed. the tank's full So I assume If I boot a powered 3.5 HDD via Firewire and it runs properly that's still not really a good test because the internal drive is on a different Bus?? Now if the display shimmering issue is a CRT is this something I can do? I know some will say I can buy the whole machine for a few bucks, but it's not this serial #. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:18 PM, John Carmonne wrote: Well I Checked the ram and it's 2 of the 6 sticks I bought from OWC. But I'll check as you said when I get to the AHT step. Yes Dan the Garage door is open I did the open firmware reset, then booted 9.2.2 but disk first aid crashes after about 8 mins. Then you've got what I suggested earlier, software that's FUBAR, or directory corruption. But I suggested to run the check for bad sectors on the hard drive part of Disk Utility in OS 9.2.2, not Disk First Aid. If you run Disk First Aid while booted into OS 9.2.2 via CD, you'll always get lots of errors if OS X also is loaded onto the hard drive due to operating system differences. The directory structure of OS X cannot be fixed by OS 9's Disk First Aid, and vice versa. So I booted 10.4 retail disk via USB and used Disk Utility from Tiger on the HDD I did permission repair first. It said it did a lot of repair here. the tires are round and black I hope you were doing Permission Repair on a 10.4 installation. Permission Repair isn't going to undo anything messed up by running OS 9's Disk First Aid on a dual boot OS 9/OS X volume. But did you run Disk Repair too? Then verify reported OK, and finally repair reported no repairs necessary, just to do every thing. DiskWarrior does a lot better and more thorough job of repairing directory issues on an OS X volume, in my experience. But it sounds as if you should have run Repair Disk instead of Repair Disk Permissions. I booted AHT the RAM shows DIMM0/j13 512 DIMM0/j14 512 , Apple profiler reports both to beSDRAM PC133-322 the glow plugs are good Good. Sounds as if you've got matching RAM sticks. Were the CL2 and CL3 (latency) numbers the same too? That's a critical part of the matched pair equation. The extended AHT reported everything passed. the tank's full That's usually a pretty good sign that all the basic hardware is OK, but it's not a completely reliable clean bill of health, just a positive indicator. The hard drive check, for instance, is merely just that, a check. It's not a complete and thorough scan of every sector for bad reads/writes as is done by Disk Utility or a third party utility such as Drive Genius 2. So I assume If I boot a powered 3.5 HDD via Firewire and it runs properly that's still not really a good test because the internal drive is on a different Bus?? Yep. If the internal hard drive passed the OS 9.2 Disk Utility test for bad sectors, that's a pretty good sign the drive is in good physical health. But if you've got OS X on that volume, as noted above, you easily could have caused major issues by running OS 9's Disk First Aid. Getting the iMac to run properly off an external hard drive proves that the machine is capable of running OK, but it does not absolve the internal hard drive hardware or software of blame. However, if you replace the internal hard drive with one that ran good when it was in an external case, then you've isolated the problem to the original internal hard drive's hardware and/or installed software. Now if the display shimmering issue is a CRT is this something I can do? I know some will say I can buy the whole machine for a few bucks, but it's not this serial #. Don't know where this came from, or even what you're trying to say. Thought we were talking about slow system performance, not video issues. One thing at a time. Test the hard drive for bad sectors using OS 9's Disk Utility while booted from an install CD. If it passes, then wipe/initialize the hard drive and install OS 9, then do all the Apple Software Updates. Make sure there's no missing Firmware Update behind your running and video issues. Your current firmware version should be 4.19f1 or something like that, as shown in OS 9's Apple System Profiler. Software Update in OS 9 will tell you if you need to do a firmware update, but that firmware update can only be done while booted into OS 9. Once your G3 iMac is running fine in OS 9.2.2, then install OS X. HTH, Jim Scott -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:18 PM, John Carmonne wrote: I did the open firmware reset, then booted 9.2.2 but disk first aid crashes after about 8 mins. Don't run OS 9 Disk First Aid on a HD that has OS X installed. Use the appropriate version of Disk Utility for the version of OS X you have installed. The rule is always use the disk utility equal to or greater than the highest version operating system installed. So I assume If I boot a powered 3.5 HDD via Firewire and it runs properly that's still not really a good test because the internal drive is on a different Bus?? But if you boot from FW and it's fast, then you know the internal HD is the problem. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 5:07 PM, Jim Scott wrote: On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:18 PM, John Carmonne wrote: Well I Checked the ram and it's 2 of the 6 sticks I bought from OWC. But I'll check as you said when I get to the AHT step. Yes Dan the Garage door is open I did the open firmware reset, then booted 9.2.2 but disk first aid crashes after about 8 mins. Then you've got what I suggested earlier, software that's FUBAR, or directory corruption. But I suggested to run the check for bad sectors on the hard drive part of Disk Utility in OS 9.2.2, not Disk First Aid. If you run Disk First Aid while booted into OS 9.2.2 via CD, you'll always get lots of errors if OS X also is loaded onto the hard drive due to operating system differences. The directory structure of OS X cannot be fixed by OS 9's Disk First Aid, and vice versa. I can't seem to find Disk Utility on my OS9 startup disk? That's why I ran FirstAid So I booted 10.4 retail disk via USB and used Disk Utility from Tiger on the HDD I did permission repair first. It said it did a lot of repair here. the tires are round and black I hope you were doing Permission Repair on a 10.4 installation. Permission Repair isn't going to undo anything messed up by running OS 9's Disk First Aid on a dual boot OS 9/OS X volume. But did you run Disk Repair too? Yes I booted an external Tiger drive to repair permissions and repair disk. Then verify reported OK, and finally repair reported no repairs necessary, just to do every thing. DiskWarrior does a lot better and more thorough job of repairing directory issues on an OS X volume, in my experience. But it sounds as if you should have run Repair Disk instead of Repair Disk Permissions. I have DiskWarrior I can run it also if you want. I booted AHT the RAM shows DIMM0/j13 512 DIMM0/j14 512 , Apple profiler reports both to beSDRAM PC133-322 the glow plugs are good Good. Sounds as if you've got matching RAM sticks. Were the CL2 and CL3 (latency) numbers the same too? That's a critical part of the matched pair equation. The only numbers I have are those mentioned on my previous statement. The extended AHT reported everything passed. the tank's full That's usually a pretty good sign that all the basic hardware is OK, but it's not a completely reliable clean bill of health, just a positive indicator. The hard drive check, for instance, is merely just that, a check. It's not a complete and thorough scan of every sector for bad reads/writes as is done by Disk Utility or a third party utility such as Drive Genius 2. I have Drive genius 2 also I'll run that too. So I assume If I boot a powered 3.5 HDD via Firewire and it runs properly that's still not really a good test because the internal drive is on a different Bus?? Yep. If the internal hard drive passed the OS 9.2 Disk Utility test for bad sectors, that's a pretty good sign the drive is in good physical health. But if you've got OS X on that volume, as noted above, you easily could have caused major issues by running OS 9's Disk First Aid. Getting the iMac to run properly off an external hard drive proves that the machine is capable of running OK, but it does not absolve the internal hard drive hardware or software of blame. However, if you replace the internal hard drive with one that ran good when it was in an external case, then you've isolated the problem to the original internal hard drive's hardware and/or installed software. Now if the display shimmering issue is a CRT is this something I can do? I know some will say I can buy the whole machine for a few bucks, but it's not this serial #. Don't know where this came from, or even what you're trying to say. Thought we were talking about slow system performance, not video issues. Sorry about that I thought I mentioned the display shimmer in the original post. It shimmers ever so slightly but is kinda annoying One thing at a time. Test the hard drive for bad sectors using OS 9's Disk Utility while booted from an install CD. If it passes, then wipe/initialize the hard drive and install OS 9, then do all the Apple Software Updates. Make sure there's no missing Firmware Update behind your running and video issues. Your current firmware version should be 4.19f1 or something like that, as shown in OS 9's Apple System Profiler. Software Update in OS 9 will tell you if you need to do a firmware update, but that firmware update can only be done while booted into OS 9. Once your G3 iMac is running fine in OS 9.2.2, then install
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:43 PM, John Carmonne wrote: I can't seem to find Disk Utility on my OS9 startup disk? That's why I ran FirstAid. You need to boot your OS X startup disk to run Disk Utility. Yes I booted an external Tiger drive to repair permissions and repair disk. And . . . was it fast...er than the internal HD or the same? It shimmers ever so slightly but is kinda annoying. Yes, that's one of the drawbacks of CRTs and why they're nearly extinct. If you can't get rid of the shimmer by making refresh rate adjustments (meaning it's a hardware problem rather than software), you'll need to find someone who can repair CRTs. I had one that had a bad capacitor once and it was repairable, but these are DANGEROUS to work on because of the high voltages so I'd recommend not doing anything yourself unless you know what you're doing and have the correct tools for discharging the vacuum tube. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:43 PM, John Carmonne wrote: I can't seem to find Disk Utility on my OS9 startup disk? That's why I ran FirstAid. You need to boot your OS X startup disk to run Disk Utility. Yes I booted an external Tiger drive to repair permissions and repair disk. And . . . was it fast...er than the internal HD or the same? It shimmers ever so slightly but is kinda annoying. Yes, that's one of the drawbacks of CRTs and why they're nearly extinct. If you can't get rid of the shimmer by making refresh rate adjustments (meaning it's a hardware problem rather than software), you'll need to find someone who can repair CRTs. I had one that had a bad capacitor once and it was repairable, but these are DANGEROUS to work on because of the high voltages so I'd recommend not doing anything yourself unless you know what you're doing and have the correct tools for discharging the vacuum tube. Kris can you explain refresh rate adjustment? I'm OK around capacitors, II guess if one is discolored or a little bulged that my be an indicator. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Slow iMac G3
On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:19 PM, John Carmonne wrote: On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Feb 16, 2010, at 7:43 PM, John Carmonne wrote: I can't seem to find Disk Utility on my OS9 startup disk? That's why I ran FirstAid. You need to boot your OS X startup disk to run Disk Utility. Yes I booted an external Tiger drive to repair permissions and repair disk. And . . . was it fast...er than the internal HD or the same? It shimmers ever so slightly but is kinda annoying. Yes, that's one of the drawbacks of CRTs and why they're nearly extinct. If you can't get rid of the shimmer by making refresh rate adjustments (meaning it's a hardware problem rather than software), you'll need to find someone who can repair CRTs. I had one that had a bad capacitor once and it was repairable, but these are DANGEROUS to work on because of the high voltages so I'd recommend not doing anything yourself unless you know what you're doing and have the correct tools for discharging the vacuum tube. Kris can you explain refresh rate adjustment? I'm OK around capacitors, II guess if one is discolored or a little bulged that my be an indicator. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA I just ran the bench test on Drive Genius 2, and my G3 iMac 600 is slower than a BW G3 400? So is this test indicative of a HDD problem? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
