Re: back up generator question
On Nov 2, 7:04 am, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: you absolutely MUST have a high quality UPS I have a APC UPS before our wifi antenna and router AND another APC UPS before my mini and external drives so I'm hearing that I should be OK. will you put the generator outside and run an extension cord in thru a door or window? generators are quite noisy, and an open window, even a crack, will let a lot of cold air in. That's the plan exactly. Not ideal but could work for short outages. We have a 50KW generator on the property with a auto transfer switch which serves the main house, but since there are three meters on the property I guess it didn't work to connect the service cottage to the auto system and generator. The third power drop feeds the well pump, water clarifying equipment, and water pressure pump that serve the entire property. i figure in a pinch I can power cord connect some refrigeration located at this location as well. This connection has a manual transfer switch that allows manual hook up to our 7K Honda powered Dayton portable. I'm consistently amazed by and appreciative for this List. It's an invaluable resource of generous expert advise and friendly helpful opinion. This thread has been especially interesting: besides providing some assurance regarding the generator hook up, it also prompted me to turn off my external drives until they are needed. thank you, Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On Nov 7, 6:07 pm, Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com wrote: That's the plan exactly. Not ideal but could work for short outages. P.S. I bought this small generator with the intention of powering electric tools in the field. Mostly, I want to power a pneumatic pole chain saw so that I can prune or 50 yr old walnut trees. Jury is still out on that one. Thank you Cliff Love's Point Blog: http://4lovespoint.wordpress.com/ (new post 10/31/10) Peace-Gardens.us:http://peace-gardens.us/ (updated regularly) Not-Two-Is-Peace: http://www.ispeace723.org/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
we live in a rural area, and power outages occasionally last for days. we have a generator for such situations, and i run all sorts of electronics on them. BUT, you absolutely MUST have a high quality UPS on any sensitive electronics, or you risk catastrophic failure. the output of that generator is NOT a clean sine wave, nor is it continuously constant voltage or frequency. a good UPS will correct this. and BECAUSE you are running a mini, which does NOT have a regulated power supply like a desktop and only has a simple rectified transformer PS, it will be particularly vulnerable. anyone who says otherwise thinks they know a lot more than they actually know. also, how do you plan to connect your computer to the generator? will you put the generator outside and run an extension cord in thru a door or window? generators are quite noisy, and an open window, even a crack, will let a lot of cold air in. if you wire it thru the main service entrance of your house, 800 W is certainly not enough to power the devices that will come on automatically, like the refrigerator, furnace, etc. when those kick on automatically, they will overload the 800 W generator and burn it out. i suggest that you go the whole 9 yards and get a minimum of 5000 W generator, and wire it thru the main service entrance, so you can also have heat and refrigeration, etc, during the power outages. but you must arrange it so that you can disconnect from the power grid while the generator is connected, otherwise when the power comes back on, it will almost certainly be out-of-phase with the generator, and cause the generator to fry. it's not that difficult to do, just add a 50 Amp dual breaker to the box and wire the output of the generator IN thru that breaker, making sure that the MAIN breaker is off, before you connect the generator. you could also spend several thousand dollars on a device that does this automatically, but if you can understand how to use a computer, you should be able to handle throwing a couple of switches in the correct sequence. then when there is a power outage and you disconnect from the grid to run your generator, simply phone the power company and request a courtesy call to let you know when the power is restored, at which time you will first disconnect the generator and then turn the MAIN breaker back on. On Oct 29, 4:44 pm, Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com wrote: We live in a rural area where power outages occur commonly. I just purchased a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Chicago Electric Generators http://www.harborfreight.com/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-g... in hopes of having back up power to run our WiFi ISP antenna, computers and a light or two. But, then I seem recalling that there are possible issues in the type of power a generator provides and the type computers like to receive. Comments and advice appreciated. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
I believe a transfer switch is a requirement per the National Electric Code if you want to hook up a generator directly the your home mains. If anyone goes wrong you could be CRIMINALLY LIABLE, not only for causing a potential electrical fire, but to damage the power grid. I suggest you consult an electrician from this point on for help. Also, transfer switches aren't that expensive when you're talking about electrical equipment to have in a house. They can cost up to 1000 dollars, potentially more, but that's only if you have a large number of circuits to connect. http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=371 On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 09:04, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: we live in a rural area, and power outages occasionally last for days. we have a generator for such situations, and i run all sorts of electronics on them. BUT, you absolutely MUST have a high quality UPS on any sensitive electronics, or you risk catastrophic failure. the output of that generator is NOT a clean sine wave, nor is it continuously constant voltage or frequency. a good UPS will correct this. and BECAUSE you are running a mini, which does NOT have a regulated power supply like a desktop and only has a simple rectified transformer PS, it will be particularly vulnerable. anyone who says otherwise thinks they know a lot more than they actually know. also, how do you plan to connect your computer to the generator? will you put the generator outside and run an extension cord in thru a door or window? generators are quite noisy, and an open window, even a crack, will let a lot of cold air in. if you wire it thru the main service entrance of your house, 800 W is certainly not enough to power the devices that will come on automatically, like the refrigerator, furnace, etc. when those kick on automatically, they will overload the 800 W generator and burn it out. i suggest that you go the whole 9 yards and get a minimum of 5000 W generator, and wire it thru the main service entrance, so you can also have heat and refrigeration, etc, during the power outages. but you must arrange it so that you can disconnect from the power grid while the generator is connected, otherwise when the power comes back on, it will almost certainly be out-of-phase with the generator, and cause the generator to fry. it's not that difficult to do, just add a 50 Amp dual breaker to the box and wire the output of the generator IN thru that breaker, making sure that the MAIN breaker is off, before you connect the generator. you could also spend several thousand dollars on a device that does this automatically, but if you can understand how to use a computer, you should be able to handle throwing a couple of switches in the correct sequence. then when there is a power outage and you disconnect from the grid to run your generator, simply phone the power company and request a courtesy call to let you know when the power is restored, at which time you will first disconnect the generator and then turn the MAIN breaker back on. On Oct 29, 4:44 pm, Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com wrote: We live in a rural area where power outages occur commonly. I just purchased a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Chicago Electric Generators http://www.harborfreight.com/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-g... in hopes of having back up power to run our WiFi ISP antenna, computers and a light or two. But, then I seem recalling that there are possible issues in the type of power a generator provides and the type computers like to receive. Comments and advice appreciated. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode The Drumhead - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Murfreesboro, Tennessee USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On 2010/10/30 20:26, Clark Martin so eloquently wrote: On Oct 30, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Tina K. wrote: My Power Mac draws about 500 watts, a Mac Mini is going to use significantly less, and external HDDs use very little. 800 watts is more than enough for those two devices. It's unlikely your PM draws 500 W. It's power supply is rated for around that much but actual use is rarely even close to that. I haven't tested any PM G4 but the PM G3 BW I tested drew 67 W. It would be hard to draw 500W, even with the monitor running off the PM's power supply. According to Mactracker the maximum wattage for my PM is 604 watts. Given that it runs both CPUs at 100% at all times the power consumption has to be high considering the amount of heat it puts out. As I mentioned previously I have yet to close the window in that room despite overnight freezing temperatures. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On Oct 30, 2010, at 11:40 PM, Tina K. wrote: On 2010/10/30 20:26, Clark Martin so eloquently wrote: On Oct 30, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Tina K. wrote: My Power Mac draws about 500 watts, a Mac Mini is going to use significantly less, and external HDDs use very little. 800 watts is more than enough for those two devices. It's unlikely your PM draws 500 W. It's power supply is rated for around that much but actual use is rarely even close to that. I haven't tested any PM G4 but the PM G3 BW I tested drew 67 W. It would be hard to draw 500W, even with the monitor running off the PM's power supply. According to Mactracker the maximum wattage for my PM is 604 watts. Given that it runs both CPUs at 100% at all times the power consumption has to be high considering the amount of heat it puts out. As I mentioned previously I have yet to close the window in that room despite overnight freezing temperatures. I just checked my dual CPU MDD. It draws 117 Watts. The CPUs simply CAN NOT draw hundreds of watts. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On Oct 31, 2:40 am, Tina K. penguir...@gmail.com wrote: On 2010/10/30 20:26, Clark Martin so eloquently wrote: On Oct 30, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Tina K. wrote: My Power Mac draws about 500 watts, a Mac Mini is going to use significantly less, and external HDDs use very little. 800 watts is more than enough for those two devices. It's unlikely your PM draws 500 W. It's power supply is rated for around that much but actual use is rarely even close to that. I haven't tested any PM G4 but the PM G3 BW I tested drew 67 W. It would be hard to draw 500W, even with the monitor running off the PM's power supply. Agreed. I have a full up MDD 1.25GHz G4. (Full = 4 drives. 2GB memory, etc) A kill-a-watt device tells me it draws 160W. Slight tangent - at 15 cents/KWH each 100W costs $131/yr for a 24/7 device. Nearly $210/yr to power this. As it was an extra, used as a server for TiVo shows, I now keep it off unless it's called to action. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
At 21:29 -0400 10/30/10, Kevin Barth wrote: All generators are NOT created equal. Some produce MUCH cleaner output than others. Spikes and surges can destroy sensitive electronics. Square Wave-producing generators may power lights and freezers just fine, but they will not work well with computers. Square wave producing inverters, electronic devices that convert DC to AC are common. Generators or alternators that generate electricity from a moving shaft driven by some kind of engine just don't do that. Perhaps you're thinking about a solar panel that converts DC to AC using an inverter. But the real point is that computers of the G4 time period will run fine on 160 volts or so DC of either polarity, let alone square waves. Really old stuff, think Apple II, used input power transformers and 60 Hz fans which do demand AC power. It's conceivable that very new power converters in modern electronics need sine waves because of circuitry that guarantees low harmonic content in the current drawn by the computer. That kind of circuitry is going to be required in the likes of LED and compact florescent lighting but it's not here yet. Of course any power source needs to include transient overvoltage protection. Around here at 7000 feet MSL lightning does that regularly and can appear as a kilovolt or so between the ethernet port and the power plug. Nasty, and probably worse on city power than on a local generator. -- -- Halloween == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On Oct 31, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Doug McNutt wrote: At 21:29 -0400 10/30/10, Kevin Barth wrote: All generators are NOT created equal. Some produce MUCH cleaner output than others. Spikes and surges can destroy sensitive electronics. Square Wave-producing generators may power lights and freezers just fine, but they will not work well with computers. Square wave producing inverters, electronic devices that convert DC to AC are common. Generators or alternators that generate electricity from a moving shaft driven by some kind of engine just don't do that. Perhaps you're thinking about a solar panel that converts DC to AC using an inverter. But the real point is that computers of the G4 time period will run fine on 160 volts or so DC of either polarity, let alone square waves. Really old stuff, think Apple II, used input power transformers and 60 Hz fans which do demand AC power. Uh, Apple ][s used a switching power supply. It was one of the first personal computers to do so. And it had no fan, AC or DC. But you are right that the average switching power supply is rather insensitive to the power feeding it. In general they are insensitive to electrical noise. They are more of a source of noise rather than being sensitive to it. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
If the output is a sine wave the computer will like it. But if the output is a square wave of modified square wave like from the low end power inverters some electronic freak out or crash or never takeoff like electric motors. Start the generator and test the devices you want to use with it, you will soon find out if going to work. SAFETY FIRST On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.comwrote: You'll probably want to purchase a UPS and a transfer switch as well. http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165#anchor1 http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=371 You'll also want to make sure that your power is clean from transient surges, so a UPS would be a good thing to have, given that most higher-end UPSes condition the incoming power. Your choice of generator looks OK, but the power rating it provides would probably be a little low for this application. Hope this helps. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:44, Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com wrote: We live in a rural area where power outages occur commonly. I just purchased a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Chicago Electric Generators http://www.harborfreight.com/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-generator-66619.html -- ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode The Drumhead - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Murfreesboro, Tennessee USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- - James D. Pritchett 15163 S.W. Walker Rd. Apt. G Portland OR, 97006-7106 - -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
NONSENSE - what you have will work just fine -- you do NOT need anything else. Done this for years!. JML. --- On Fri, 10/29/10, Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com wrote: From: Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com Subject: Re: back up generator question To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 1:51 PM You'll probably want to purchase a UPS and a transfer switch as well. http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165#anchor1 http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=371 You'll also want to make sure that your power is clean from transient surges, so a UPS would be a good thing to have, given that most higher-end UPSes condition the incoming power. Your choice of generator looks OK, but the power rating it provides would probably be a little low for this application. Hope this helps. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:44, Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com wrote: We live in a rural area where power outages occur commonly. I just purchased a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Chicago Electric Generators http://www.harborfreight.com/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-generator-66619.html -- ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode The Drumhead - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Murfreesboro, Tennessee USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On Oct 29, 1:51 pm, Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com wrote: Your choice of generator looks OK, but the power rating it provides would probably be a little low for this application. not knowing too much about electricity 800 watts seems like a lot for our use. How much juice does a mac mini and external HD pull? I do have a UPS on my computer and one on our WiFi antenna power. testing sounds right, of course, but I wonder what failure would look like? what are the risks? On Oct 29, 1:51 pm, Jonas Lopes wrote: NONSENSE - what you have will work just fine -- you do NOT need anything else. Done this for years!. That's encouraging. Thanks for all the input. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On 2010/10/30 18:43, Cliff Rediger so eloquently wrote: not knowing too much about electricity 800 watts seems like a lot for our use. How much juice does a mac mini and external HD pull? My Power Mac draws about 500 watts, a Mac Mini is going to use significantly less, and external HDDs use very little. 800 watts is more than enough for those two devices. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
And do you have the same generator he does? Or are you familiar enough with the output of the generator he has to make the claim? All generators are NOT created equal. Some produce MUCH cleaner output than others. Spikes and surges can destroy sensitive electronics. Square Wave-producing generators may power lights and freezers just fine, but they will not work well with computers. Unless you are sure what your generator produces (and the only way to really be sure is to hook it up to a scope and look at the resulting wave pattern, or find someone who has done that), you will be much safer getting some kind of a power conditioner. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just something with a voltage regulator in it to eliminate spikes and a filter to convert square waves to sine. Most decent UPSes will do it, or if you're handy with a soldering iron, there are schematics for appropriate circuits on the web. On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Jonas Lopez jonaslo...@yahoo.com wrote: NONSENSE - what you have will work just fine -- you do NOT need anything else. Done this for years!. JML. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On 30 Oct 2010, at 17:48:13 PDT, Tina K. wrote: On 2010/10/30 18:43, Cliff Rediger so eloquently wrote: not knowing too much about electricity 800 watts seems like a lot for our use. How much juice does a mac mini and external HD pull? My Power Mac draws about 500 watts, a Mac Mini is going to use significantly less, and external HDDs use very little. 800 watts is more than enough for those two devices. -- Don't forget to add in any other devices such as monitor and such. My little 800w Honda does OK, but it takes surprisingly few devices to max it out. Ken -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
not knowing too much about electricity 800 watts seems like a lot for our use. How much juice does a mac mini and external HD pull? Well under 800 Watts. Depends on what you are using for a monitor, of course. Per Apple, Mac Mini (without monitor) uses 85-110 Watts. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3468 External hard drive power consumption can be tricky to measure, because under typical patterns of usage, they tend to spin up and down a lot. But even at peak usage, it should consume under 15 watts http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/-external-hard-drive,2045-16.html Add to that whatever monitor you're using. No LCD monitor of standard size should exceed the 675 Watts you have left, or come close to doing so. The article below may help give you an idea of typical values, or you could purchase an inexpensive device called a Kill-A-Watt to get a more accurate reading. I do have a UPS on my computer and one on our WiFi antenna power. testing sounds right, of course, but I wonder what failure would look like? what are the risks? Power Spikes: best case scenario, blown fuse or circuit breaker. worst case scenario; smoke, explosion, and damage to your computer. Square Wave instead of sine: best case scenario: no symptoms. It works just fine. Worst case - equipment simply fails to power up, or does so but doesn't function properly. Never seen equipment seriously damaged because it was fed a square wave instead of a sine - it tends to just not work right. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
On Oct 30, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Tina K. wrote: On 2010/10/30 18:43, Cliff Rediger so eloquently wrote: not knowing too much about electricity 800 watts seems like a lot for our use. How much juice does a mac mini and external HD pull? My Power Mac draws about 500 watts, a Mac Mini is going to use significantly less, and external HDDs use very little. 800 watts is more than enough for those two devices. It's unlikely your PM draws 500 W. It's power supply is rated for around that much but actual use is rarely even close to that. I haven't tested any PM G4 but the PM G3 BW I tested drew 67 W. It would be hard to draw 500W, even with the monitor running off the PM's power supply. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB DDR Ubuntu 10.10 Power Mac June 04 2GHz G5DP 8GB RAM GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256MB Leopard 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 HiRes DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB DDR Leopard 10.5.8 Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
Hey Cliff... On Oct 29, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote: We live in a rural area where power outages occur commonly. I just purchased a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Chicago Electric Generators http://www.harborfreight.com/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-generator-66619.html in hopes of having back up power to run our WiFi ISP antenna, computers and a light or two. But, then I seem recalling that there are possible issues in the type of power a generator provides and the type computers like to receive. Comments and advice appreciated. Cliff There are a few things to consider. A backup generator (or DC to AC invertor) might provide a square wave output that your electronics might not like. I had one such invertor that trashed the PS for my Sony laptop several years ago. I don't know the generator you purchased, but lower end units can provide power with spikes/transients that could play havoc with electronic devices. Using a UPS to filter the output might be a good idea. Not saying you have a problem, just offering a couple of thoughts if you do! We used to have the dreaded rolling blackouts, here in the SF area, a few years ago and I had three huge Fortress UPS units to keep the systems running. Fortunately, those blackouts are a thing of the past. Amanda -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
back up generator question
We live in a rural area where power outages occur commonly. I just purchased a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Chicago Electric Generators http://www.harborfreight.com/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-generator-66619.html in hopes of having back up power to run our WiFi ISP antenna, computers and a light or two. But, then I seem recalling that there are possible issues in the type of power a generator provides and the type computers like to receive. Comments and advice appreciated. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: back up generator question
You'll probably want to purchase a UPS and a transfer switch as well. http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165#anchor1 http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=371 You'll also want to make sure that your power is clean from transient surges, so a UPS would be a good thing to have, given that most higher-end UPSes condition the incoming power. Your choice of generator looks OK, but the power rating it provides would probably be a little low for this application. Hope this helps. On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 15:44, Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com wrote: We live in a rural area where power outages occur commonly. I just purchased a 800 Rated Watts/900 Max Watts Portable Chicago Electric Generators http://www.harborfreight.com/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-generator-66619.html -- ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode The Drumhead - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Murfreesboro, Tennessee USA -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
