Re: Sawtooth freeze
On Aug 12, 2010, at 10:25 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Aug 12, 2010, at 10:10 PM, James Therrault wrote: I bought a 22 Samsung display plugged it in out of the box with my G4 Gigabit/ATI RAgePro with 16MB. Never have had a problem. I think you've got a problem and you just don't know it. The problem is that you don't get any Quartz Extreme or Core Graphics acceleration, so if you're using Tiger 10.4+, your graphics are literally crawling slow compared to what is possible. If you're stuck in MacOS 9.x you're probably OK since you'll have a matched set of antiquated OS video card. If this were my Gigabit I'd be looking for at least a Radeon card that supports Quartz Extreme, and perhaps something that supports Core Graphics also, such as an nVidia GeForce FX5200 or 6200. A flashed PC card would be cheap, and could do wonders for any Gigabit running Tiger 10.4+. I'm not sure what graphics you might be referring to, (I'm not a gamer), but I can play DVD's full screen etc without any problems. Regarding upgrading this machine which has been my faithful companion since January of 2001, nope... Lookin' for a late Intel Mac Mini with Superdrive, maxed out memory and a 7,200 rpm drive which hopefully will carry me for another five years... JT Health Plans From $50/mo. Compare Low-Cost Health Plans Online. Blue Cross, Aetna and more. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c6521465973069690est04duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
On Aug 12, 9:31 pm, Midnight rider coolmar...@gmail.com wrote: Don't ever plug in a monitor bigger than 17 in a card that is less than 32MB, because you won't like the performance at all, and it might freeze. That used to happen to me when I had my 23 dell plugged into my ATI rage 128 pro card. If you need a new card, send me a private email. i ran 19 and 21 monitors on PCI macs w/ as little as 4MB VRAM, and had no problems whatsoever in OS9. i currently run 19+ monitors on Rage128Pro cards w/ 16MB VRAM, and have zero problems w/ 10.4.11, and i too watch DVD's full screen mode without the slightest glitch. however, video cards can go bad, and may give symptoms similar to those described. or someone may have improperly set the preferences under monitors in system preferences. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
At 5:59 PM -0700 8/12/2010, les wrote: G4 Sawtooth AGP 450 Mhz. 1.1 Gig RAM ...In the future please provide all hardware information up front, so we don't have to go trawling thru the message to find it. What other hardware, internal and external? OS? Fully updated? This machine freezes randomly Freeze vs Crash - very different things. By freeze you mean everything stops and even the mouse cursor is immobile? IOW, you're NOT seeing the panic screen (a full system CRASH) and there are no application crash logs? Does disconnecting the keyboard and mouse, then reconnecting restore functionality? What apps are running? What are the last things to go into the system.log before the freeze? so, I replaced the original 350Mhz processor with a 450Mhz from a similar machine. What made you think the processor was at fault? Does the system BONG normally when booted? Have you tried reseating the RAM, HD interfaces, etc? I checked the crash logs but couldn't decipher. What crash logs? Freezes don't produce crash logs. Aug 11 13:57:33 localhost kernel[0]: ROM ndrv for ATY,Rage128Ps is too old (0xb4461ab9) [snip] leads me to believe the driver for the video board is out-dated. Is this the case? No. Ignore that message. It's informational and not related. I searched the web for a Mac driver to no avail. I observed the last crash occurred when I had a number of windows open and was moving a page. Ok. Now you're talking about crashes not freezes... Exactly what crashed? Also, a page or file opening, appears jerky - like a strobing or step frame rather than smooth. My monitor is a Viewsonic 19 @ 1680x1050 59.9Hz. Poor video performance such as you describe is simply the video card being unable to keep up with the demands. The card you have is probably targeted to smaller / lower resolution displays. Does the jerkyness go away if you lower the display resolution? Try changing the refresh frequency, to see if the strobing lessens. At 9:31 PM -0400 8/12/2010, Midnight rider wrote: Don't ever plug in a monitor bigger than 17 in a card that is less than 32MB, because you won't like the performance at all, and it might freeze. Baloney. A bogged GPU does not a freeze cause. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
ah...clem wrote: On Aug 12, 9:31 pm, Midnight ridercoolmar...@gmail.com wrote: Don't ever plug in a monitor bigger than 17 in a card that is less than 32MB, because you won't like the performance at all, and it might freeze. That used to happen to me when I had my 23 dell plugged into my ATI rage 128 pro card. If you need a new card, send me a private email. i ran 19 and 21 monitors on PCI macs w/ as little as 4MB VRAM, and had no problems whatsoever in OS9. i currently run 19+ monitors on Rage128Pro cards w/ 16MB VRAM, and have zero problems w/ 10.4.11, and i too watch DVD's full screen mode without the slightest glitch. however, video cards can go bad, and may give symptoms similar to those described. or someone may have improperly set the preferences under monitors in system preferences. I ran my 19 Mitsubishi CRT on my beige G3 (OS 9.2 and 10.3) with IIRC 6MB VRAM, and then on my Sawtooth (10.4) with the stock card in it without problem. It's currently on my (Leopard) dualG5 @ 1344 x 1008 - 75Hz although the G5 has a 256MB 9650 in it. I'm passing the G5 next week to Best Beloved, and I've got her a Samsung 2050 LCD to save on desk space. Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
My Rage 128 pro card had problems only when I ran leopard on it. No quartz extreme, or core image. The graphics were crawling slower than a snail and made the PowerPC G4 processor seem slow. After I got an upgrade to a 128MB ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (I am actually surprised that a video card that good can be put in a sawtooth...) AGP which I pulled out of a PC and flashed it. I have a 23 dell, and it works good now. As far as Mac OS 9 is concerned, the Rage 128 Pro card is okay. I ran the Radeon 9800 pro card in leopard, and it was fast! Tiger, even aster. In jaguar, the effects were so smooth that it looked like a newly bought mac. In Leopard, it did also have the new mac smooth window affects, just a quarter of a second slower. In Mac OS 9, the 9800 Pro card was so fast it exploded. not really, it didn't explode but it was fast! -- Sent from my PM G4 Sawtooth It's anyway, anyhow, anywhere you choose it. -Me -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
Midnight rider wrote: dude! 256MB ATI Radeon 9650! Show me where I could get that! -- Sent from my PM G4 Sawtooth It's anyway, anyhow, anywhere you choose it. -Me Can't say:- I bought this early 2005 G5 dual 2.0 about 2 years ago, and all I've done is upped the RAM to 4GB, replaced the 160GB drive with 1 x 750GB and 1 x 320GB. I believe the 256MB 9650 was standard on the 2.7DP G5, but how one ended up in my June 2005 2.0DP, I don't know. The seller certainly didn't point it out, and I was (pleasant;y) surprised to find out when I got it home thoroughly checked it out. About This Mac reports:- ATI Radeon 9650: Chipset Model:ATY,RV351 Type:Display Bus:AGP Slot:SLOT-1 VRAM (Total):256 MB Vendor:ATI (0x1002) Device ID:0x4150 Revision ID:0x ROM Revision:113-A58503-115 Displays: 90e: Resolution:1344 x 1008 @ 75 Hz Depth:32-Bit Color Core Image:Hardware Accelerated Main Display:Yes Mirror:Off Online:Yes Quartz Extreme:Supported Rotation:Supported Display Connector: Status:No Display Connected As I have to run CS5, I've had to buy an early 2010 MacPro Nehalem, 2 x 2.26, which is coming with 8GB RAM, 3 x 1TB drives (the 750GB is going in the 4th bay) and it's already been upgraded to the Radeon 4870, and still has more than 2Yrs Applecare on it. I'll be using a dual LCD screen set-up on the Pro, a NEC 23 H-IPS for main screen with a cheap Dell 17 LCD just to put InDesign's multitude of palettes on. The NEC was the only completely brand new item I bought. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
On Aug 13, 2010, at 5:40 AM, James Therrault wrote: I'm not sure what graphics you might be referring to, (I'm not a gamer), but I can play DVD's full screen etc without any problems. I imagine your scrolling within large, extended windows is very slow. With graphics acceleration you can go instantly from top to bottom of any large window, or move up down a frame at a time rather than line- by-line or waiting for the window to redraw itself. If you happen to have lots of open windows with lots of open tabs within each window, things will grind to a halt on your unaccelerated 16MB Rage card IF you're using Tiger 10.4+ that support QE CI. Regarding upgrading this machine which has been my faithful companion since January of 2001, nope... Lookin' for a late Intel Mac Mini with Superdrive, maxed out memory and a 7,200 rpm drive which hopefully will carry me for another five years... Good idea, an Intel Mini is probably the best deal for minimally expensive Mac unless you can get by with an iPad. Minis are great, I own a G4 Mini, but their weakest attribute in my opinion is the amount of VRAM, which isn't upgradeable. Still, a Mini is the best value in Macs with the possible exception of the iPad. Recently Geeks.com had refurbished 1.33GHz G4 iBooks for $269 with free shipping($30 off with code Apple), which is a good deal, and may still be available? If I were you I'll look hard at the iPad. Five years is a long time, and I'd bet an iPad holds it's value MUCH better than a Mini over the next 5 years, and probably would be more useful to you also? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
On Aug 13, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Aug 13, 2010, at 5:40 AM, James Therrault wrote: I'm not sure what graphics you might be referring to, (I'm not a gamer), but I can play DVD's full screen etc without any problems. I imagine your scrolling within large, extended windows is very slow. With graphics acceleration you can go instantly from top to bottom of any large window, or move up down a frame at a time rather than line-by-line or waiting for the window to redraw itself. If you happen to have lots of open windows with lots of open tabs within each window, things will grind to a halt on your unaccelerated 16MB Rage card IF you're using Tiger 10.4+ that support QE CI. That's just it... I don't have a lot of apps open and rarely have more than three tabs open in SeaMonkey. Also, I was exclusively OS 9 until the end of 2006 when I forced myself to upgrade to OS X, which was panther at that time. I also had a G3 466 clamshell running Panther. Both would run DVD movies without problems. Later, I upgraded the Gigabit to 10.4, (now 10.4.11), and noticed a slowdown in performance but there was no going back because of security issues etc. I'm comfortable with the way it performs but upgrading RAM, (currently 768MB), probably would boost performance. But at this point, I'm hesitant to put any more money into this machine. Needless to say, the original slow 20GB hd was replaced by a 120GB about three years ago. I've also added a 160GB which I now remember as being formatted on a friend's G5. It was in a firewire enclosure at the time. Now, the clamshell was replaced a couple of years ago with a PowerBook G4 1.25GHz with 80GB 7,200 rpm hd, 2GB ram and that thing really whizzes pretty good. It is on Cricket 3G broadband while the Gigabit is still on dial up. I do like all the bells 'n whistles on the PowerBook though. Regarding upgrading this machine which has been my faithful companion since January of 2001, nope... Lookin' for a late Intel Mac Mini with Superdrive, maxed out memory and a 7,200 rpm drive which hopefully will carry me for another five years... Good idea, an Intel Mini is probably the best deal for minimally expensive Mac unless you can get by with an iPad. Minis are great, I own a G4 Mini, but their weakest attribute in my opinion is the amount of VRAM, which isn't upgradeable. Still, a Mini is the best value in Macs with the possible exception of the iPad. Recently Geeks.com had refurbished 1.33GHz G4 iBooks for $269 with free shipping($30 off with code Apple), which is a good deal, and may still be available? If I were you I'll look hard at the iPad. Five years is a long time, and I'd bet an iPad holds it's value MUCH better than a Mini over the next 5 years, and probably would be more useful to you also? I think that the PowerBook will serve my mobile needs for a few more years. I bought it on eBay and it was a pristine loaded machine with three batteries. I'm not the type that jumps on the latest thing and am pretty traditional in habit(s). I'm not sure what a tiny 9 screen could do for me. OTOH, a mini should drive my 22 or even a 24 monitor OK given my reduced graphics needs. I do like a lot of real estate in front of me... JT Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c65ef6ae585c6ddb9fst02duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
Don't ever plug in a monitor bigger than 17 in a card that is less than 32MB, because you won't like the performance at all, and it might freeze. That used to happen to me when I had my 23 dell plugged into my ATI rage 128 pro card. If you need a new card, send me a private email. -- Sent from my PM G4 Sawtooth It's anyway, anyhow, anywhere you choose it. -Me -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
On Aug 12, 2010, at 8:31 PM, Midnight rider wrote: Don't ever plug in a monitor bigger than 17 in a card that is less than 32MB, because you won't like the performance at all, and it might freeze. That used to happen to me when I had my 23 dell plugged into my ATI rage 128 pro card. If you need a new card, send me a private email. I bought a 22 Samsung display plugged it in out of the box with my G4 Gigabit/ATI RAgePro with 16MB. Never have had a problem. JT Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c64b7b355cb610f8d7st06duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Sawtooth freeze
On Aug 12, 2010, at 10:10 PM, James Therrault wrote: I bought a 22 Samsung display plugged it in out of the box with my G4 Gigabit/ATI RAgePro with 16MB. Never have had a problem. I think you've got a problem and you just don't know it. The problem is that you don't get any Quartz Extreme or Core Graphics acceleration, so if you're using Tiger 10.4+, your graphics are literally crawling slow compared to what is possible. If you're stuck in MacOS 9.x you're probably OK since you'll have a matched set of antiquated OS video card. If this were my Gigabit I'd be looking for at least a Radeon card that supports Quartz Extreme, and perhaps something that supports Core Graphics also, such as an nVidia GeForce FX5200 or 6200. A flashed PC card would be cheap, and could do wonders for any Gigabit running Tiger 10.4+. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
