Re: [Audyssey] New idea for Community Project
which is what I am getting at. I guess if you were wanting to get into the stuff you could use flash or something but vary few have successfully written anything remotely accessible in flash and its probably limited to simple games anyway. At 08:43 a.m. 18/03/2011, you wrote: Hi Ken, Well, the problem with Moosic is that even though it is written in Python the code isn't up to spec. The current Python release is 2.7 and I believe Moosic was built using 2.3. So if you wanted to get it upgraded you would first have to convert/update the code to meet current Python specifications. The other problem is that PySonic, which Moosic uses for audio, is no longer compatible with newer versions of FMOD Ex. I looked into using PySonic quite some time back and the PySonic Python libraries simply would not compile on newer versions of Python and/or with the newer builds of FMOD Ex. So the way I see it we can't just add on to Moosic, but we'd first have to bring everything up to current spec before adding new levels and so on. Otherwise you are just poring time and energy into a product that isn't going to meet current software specifications for newer Windows, Mac, and Linux platforms. HTH On 3/17/11, Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: Ok, since Heli kinda wasn't working out for a community project, I have another idea. What about building on Moosik? There are several advantages to this. First of all, sighted people can play it too. Second, it's easy enough to edit your own levels. Third, it's written in Python so you don't have to get a bunch of extra stuff to run it--just Python, Python Audio and a few dll files. I know that even if three or four work on it, it's still not going to compare to what games like MOTA are shaping up to be, but I am really longing for games to play with my kids. I did enjoy playing Quake with my daughter until my wife walked in and told me just how bloody and realistically violent the game was. I know that none of us really know anything about sprites, graphics, images and so on, but with the foundation of all that laid, it shouldn't be too hard to build on it. What do y'all think? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] New idea for Community Project
Hi Shaun, Oh, no, no, no. For a project like this using Flash is a very bad idea. Here is why. First, if someone like Ken is thinking of a community project that means he is going to want to use a programming language that is widely known and relatively inexpensive. Flash doesn't meet either of these requirements. Unlike Java, C++, Python, or several other languages I can mention Flash is completely proprietary to the max, and has legal strings attached to its usage etc. Not exactly great for a community project based on that alone, but the tools and development kits for Flash are fairly expensive to license from Adobe. So you aren't going to find many blind developers willing to fork over cash to buy all the required tools and development kits for Flash just to create a free and open source project. That is counter productive in the extreme. The second issue has to do with technical problems such as execution speeds. Like alot of runtime languages Flash tends to run rather slow on some systems. I don't think any of us can forget how slowly and poorly AGM ran because it was written in Flash. The thing took forever and a day just to start. It wouldn't have ran quite so poorly if the AGM developers had chosen a better programming language for the project. However, this only goes to show that writing anything fairly complex in Flash isn't going to give you high-quality performence and speed. In fact it is going to perform poorly on older systems with less memory and processor power than you can get today. I've written an entire game engine, G3D, in C# .Net and it ran much smoother and performed a lot better than AGM and it was written in C# .Net which also is a runtime language. While the .Net Framework doesn't render native execution speeds I've read it comes pretty darn close. Most apps run about 90% to 95% native execution speed in bench mark tests which is close enough for a runtime language. The newer Java 6 JRE also has huge performance updates and I've written my share of Java apps that run faster and smoother than some Flash apps. So I just think for games Flash isn't really in anyones best interests from a technical standpoint. It appears other runtime languages has it beat as far as execution speeds etc. Not to mention there are open source tools for Java, C#, etc so there is no upfront costs to own and use the technology to worry about. Now compare Flash to something like BGT. The Flash tools are expensive and you can't write anything without them. With BGT you can use the demo to create games for free, and for $30 you get a compiler for free games. So BGT is less expensive. With Flash it wasn't designed for fast execution and high-quality performence. BGT was written in C++, and seams to be designed to render decent performence on Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7. With Flash you have to lisence Shockwave Directer to access DirectX on Windows. With BGT you have Streemway built in to do the same thing, and the next update of BGT will have 5.1 surround sound support via XAudio2. Finally, Flash is a c-style language and you'll have to learn it before you can use it. BGT's Angelscript is a c-style language and you'll have to learn it. There really isn't much difference in syntax etc so you might as well adopt the cheaper route anyway. Finally, my opinion as a developer is, based on experience, that there really is no need to adopt proprietary languages for projects. In fact, doing so only complicates the process. I've been a Linux user for many years, and most open source developers adopt one of three open standards for open source project such as C, Python, Perl, and sometimes Java. This makes coming along and maintaining, updating, and/or modifying their code easy because everybody or at least most people in the Linux programming community are skilled in those languages. One thing they are careful to do is not base their software on some expensive proprietary language, tool, etc as that would be counter productive. Cheers! On 3/17/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: which is what I am getting at. I guess if you were wanting to get into the stuff you could use flash or something but vary few have successfully written anything remotely accessible in flash and its probably limited to simple games anyway. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] New idea for Community Project
Ok, since Heli kinda wasn't working out for a community project, I have another idea. What about building on Moosik? There are several advantages to this. First of all, sighted people can play it too. Second, it's easy enough to edit your own levels. Third, it's written in Python so you don't have to get a bunch of extra stuff to run it--just Python, Python Audio and a few dll files. I know that even if three or four work on it, it's still not going to compare to what games like MOTA are shaping up to be, but I am really longing for games to play with my kids. I did enjoy playing Quake with my daughter until my wife walked in and told me just how bloody and realistically violent the game was. I know that none of us really know anything about sprites, graphics, images and so on, but with the foundation of all that laid, it shouldn't be too hard to build on it. What do y'all think? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] New idea for Community Project
Moosic is really old using old libs, etc. We would have to rewrite the game. I could do pits and stuff warnings but never was able to do it well and never was able to play it right. As it was written or is now you need python 2.4 pywin32 pygame, pysonic pymidi pytts and pyapi I think loaded seperately. I guess that could all be compiled for us all. But I never found the game that responsive it also crashed loads and sucked. If this game was redone in bgt it could be at least blind playable. However we would have to update it to the latest python and as I understand it unless things have changed and they may have as I don't follow everything some libs are just not updated for later versions. The game could be a good idea but its really crap now, if someone wants to sort out the game so you can release pure crappyness that is fine. HOwever if you want to do it properly, well it seems its in a real mess as it is. I have no idea exactly how to make things do. At 02:14 a.m. 18/03/2011, you wrote: Ok, since Heli kinda wasn't working out for a community project, I have another idea. What about building on Moosik? There are several advantages to this. First of all, sighted people can play it too. Second, it's easy enough to edit your own levels. Third, it's written in Python so you don't have to get a bunch of extra stuff to run it--just Python, Python Audio and a few dll files. I know that even if three or four work on it, it's still not going to compare to what games like MOTA are shaping up to be, but I am really longing for games to play with my kids. I did enjoy playing Quake with my daughter until my wife walked in and told me just how bloody and realistically violent the game was. I know that none of us really know anything about sprites, graphics, images and so on, but with the foundation of all that laid, it shouldn't be too hard to build on it. What do y'all think? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] New idea for Community Project
Hi Ken, Well, the problem with Moosic is that even though it is written in Python the code isn't up to spec. The current Python release is 2.7 and I believe Moosic was built using 2.3. So if you wanted to get it upgraded you would first have to convert/update the code to meet current Python specifications. The other problem is that PySonic, which Moosic uses for audio, is no longer compatible with newer versions of FMOD Ex. I looked into using PySonic quite some time back and the PySonic Python libraries simply would not compile on newer versions of Python and/or with the newer builds of FMOD Ex. So the way I see it we can't just add on to Moosic, but we'd first have to bring everything up to current spec before adding new levels and so on. Otherwise you are just poring time and energy into a product that isn't going to meet current software specifications for newer Windows, Mac, and Linux platforms. HTH On 3/17/11, Ken the Crazy kenwdow...@neo.rr.com wrote: Ok, since Heli kinda wasn't working out for a community project, I have another idea. What about building on Moosik? There are several advantages to this. First of all, sighted people can play it too. Second, it's easy enough to edit your own levels. Third, it's written in Python so you don't have to get a bunch of extra stuff to run it--just Python, Python Audio and a few dll files. I know that even if three or four work on it, it's still not going to compare to what games like MOTA are shaping up to be, but I am really longing for games to play with my kids. I did enjoy playing Quake with my daughter until my wife walked in and told me just how bloody and realistically violent the game was. I know that none of us really know anything about sprites, graphics, images and so on, but with the foundation of all that laid, it shouldn't be too hard to build on it. What do y'all think? Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
