Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Hi all, Travis is correct. I mean if it is a matter of comparing core native Windows development APIs to core native Mac development APIs it is quite possible to create some fairly advanced accessible Mac games. However, it can be a programming nightmare because Windows native APIs and Mac native game APIs are completely different from a programming standpoint. That's why it is helpful to find some intermediate cross-platform API like SFML to create some common programming interface between Mac and Windows. Problem is that SFML and SDL aren't really as good as the native Mac or Windows development APIs which was my original point in all this. If you want to write Mac games, specifically for a Mac, then you could do it using native Mac APIs which are generally pretty good. if you want Windows based games you can create them using native Windows APIs. However, you can't create a game for both without either rewriting a good portion of your program to support those native APIs, or you settle for an open source cross-platform solution that doesn't necessarily deliver the same features or quality. I could easily create a game like STFC using SDL that would be perfectly fine since it doesn't really need anything more than basic keyboard and audio support. However, for a realistic first person game such as Shades of Doom I'd want something with better input and audio support that SDL just doesn't have. So as a result you might want to use one of the native APIs that would offer better features and better performance. Sometimes there isn't any other way but to support two completely different APIs to perform the same task such as rendering text to speech. On Windows there is Sapi, and Mac has the Apple Speech Framework. Both are good APIs, basically do the same thing, but are supported in completely different ways from a programming standpoint. I've heard there are some open source libraries that act as a common wrapper for Sapi and Mac's Speech Framework, but without it you have completely two different APIs to support. A developer can end up investing a lot of time and energy trying to program, debug, and support what are two completely different versions of the same software. Which i for one don't really want to deal with at this time. Cheers! On 3/23/10, Travis Siegel wrote: > I'd like to urge folks to keep in mind while discussing cross platform > development tools that they're just that cross platform. > Windows has it's native apis which are loads better than sdl, sfml, or any > of the others mentioned here. > I'd also like to point out that mac has core audio, and other apis that are > the same way. > Anyone using the native mac apis would get just as fully exposed to the > features windows apis provide, > but those programs would be mac only, just as direct x is windows only. > But, the point is that mac does have it's own set of apis for doing things. > The problem is that mac still has a long way to go on it's integrated > development (called collectively the x tools) before they will be > 100 percent accessible to those of us who use screen readers for our > computer usage. > That's not to say it can't be done, only that's considerably more difficult > to use native mac apis with the apple provided development tools to make an > equivalent game. > However, it *can* be done, if you have some sighted assistance (which most > of us do not) > and a great deal of knowledge of how cocoa and objective C++ works. > On the other hand, all the comments about cross platform game developing is > quite correct. > Give me some c++ code for a game like troopanum, and using sfml > I could have a cross platform version available in a week or less. > Give me a month or so, and some sighte help from someone who knows the apple > developer tools, > and I can provide you something like shades of doom, sara, or even toc, and > you'd be blown away by it's richness of environment. > Unfortunately, what's lacking here is the sighted help, and the knowledge of > the cocoa environment, so I at least can't do this out of the box. > (well, I could do the troopanum game, but not the other) > If you want a sample of what apple can do with their apis, check out the > dinosaur game that comes with any mac purchase. > My kids love it, and it's definitely full of stereo sound effects, great > video animations, and all sorts of eye candy for keeping the little ones > entertained. > However, this was produced by folks who knew the apple environment inside > and out, so it's not really a fair comparison of what *we* can do, only what > *can* be done. > Hope this helps clarify a little bit. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.co
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
I'd like to urge folks to keep in mind while discussing cross platform development tools that they're just that cross platform. Windows has it's native apis which are loads better than sdl, sfml, or any of the others mentioned here. I'd also like to point out that mac has core audio, and other apis that are the same way. Anyone using the native mac apis would get just as fully exposed to the features windows apis provide, but those programs would be mac only, just as direct x is windows only. But, the point is that mac does have it's own set of apis for doing things. The problem is that mac still has a long way to go on it's integrated development (called collectively the x tools) before they will be 100 percent accessible to those of us who use screen readers for our computer usage. That's not to say it can't be done, only that's considerably more difficult to use native mac apis with the apple provided development tools to make an equivalent game. However, it *can* be done, if you have some sighted assistance (which most of us do not) and a great deal of knowledge of how cocoa and objective C++ works. On the other hand, all the comments about cross platform game developing is quite correct. Give me some c++ code for a game like troopanum, and using sfml I could have a cross platform version available in a week or less. Give me a month or so, and some sighte help from someone who knows the apple developer tools, and I can provide you something like shades of doom, sara, or even toc, and you'd be blown away by it's richness of environment. Unfortunately, what's lacking here is the sighted help, and the knowledge of the cocoa environment, so I at least can't do this out of the box. (well, I could do the troopanum game, but not the other) If you want a sample of what apple can do with their apis, check out the dinosaur game that comes with any mac purchase. My kids love it, and it's definitely full of stereo sound effects, great video animations, and all sorts of eye candy for keeping the little ones entertained. However, this was produced by folks who knew the apple environment inside and out, so it's not really a fair comparison of what *we* can do, only what *can* be done. Hope this helps clarify a little bit. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Hi James, Thanks. I'm glad to have people see it from that point of view. Besides Mac users aren't totally left in the cold. They can run games if they are willing to run Windows side by side on their Mac system. As they have to do this anyway for a majority of accessible games I don't see this as a major imposition for Mac users. Less convenient perhaps, but is a workable solution. On 3/23/10, James Dietz wrote: > I'm glad you're making progress. Though I voted for mac compatibility > I'm glad to sacrifice it for a fun and enjoyablefinished product. > Keep it up. > > James --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
I'm glad you're making progress. THough I voted for mac compatibility I'm glad to sacrifice it for a fun and enjoyablefinished product. Keep it up. James On 3/23/10, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Bryan, > Actually, I'd say cross-platform development of games is more a matter > of finding comprable cross-platform game programming APIs rather than > how hard or easy it is. Oh, if I want to use SDL for cross-platform > development then it is easy enough to create Mac, Linux, and Windows > games, but you lose a good deal of features available in a pro game > API like DirectX in the process. Something like SDL is for all intents > and purposes a case of choosing the lowest common denominator verses > platform specific tools and APIs that can give your game product > truly outstanding performance and special features. Mac and Linux game > APIs are a good generation behind what's available for the Windows > platform that is a huge disadvantage for those platforms. > There are commercial APIs such as FMOD Ex that closes the gap between > Windows and Mac rather nicely, but then again it is a commercial > third-party product. As I am all to aware there are licenses involved > with something like FMOD that aren't really well suited for a small > game studio like USA Games. It is expensive enough to license FMOD for > one platform, but if you license it for multiple platforms the price > goes up dramatically making it not financially feasable. There has to > be a large enough Mac or Linux market out there for accessible games > to make the use of FMOD and other commercial cross-platform APIs > finantially viable alternatives to the free native APIs. > So in the end you might have to settle on something decent like OpenAL > that is good, but not particularly over the top. However, as the past > couple of days has shown XAudio2 is emerging as a rather revolutionary > and powerful API for Windows and the XBox. So I think as XAudio2 > continues to be developed creating games with XAudio2 may offer me, > the game developer, more advanced features and render some truly > amazing audio environments. With something like OpenAL it will just > offer me somewhat basic and rather generic audio support. In a feature > by feature run down XAudio2 probably is the superior and more logical > choice for future audio games. So cross-platform games, using > cross-platform APIs, will only hold the games back from obtaining > their maximum potential. At least that's how I see things currently. > Now, I do know Draconis Entertainment is working on porting their > games to Mac, but our situations are slightly different. Currently > Draconis Entertainment's games such as Aliens in the Outback don't > require a lot of high end features. For audio basically all they need > to do is have some simple stereo panning and the ability to change the > pitch of the starships as they land. Joystick support in Aliens in the > Outback was always pretty generic so SDL probably could handle similar > joystick support as the existing game now. Basically, what I am saying > is Draconis can slide by on Mac's existing APIs because they aren't > looking for or particularly need cutting edge audio and input support > for a majority of their existing titles. > However, I'm trying to create the next generation of audio games with > highly professional 3d audio, support special game controllers, and > basically pull out all the stops. Mac APIs don't really impress me, > and aren't up to handling the kinds of games I want to begin creating > in the next couple of years. For that reason cross-platform > development isn't necessarily feasable in all cases. > > Cheers! > > On 3/20/10, Bryan Peterson wrote: >> At least not right at first. Apparently there's no easy way to do this. >> Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of >> pizza? >> Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Hi Bryan, Actually, I'd say cross-platform development of games is more a matter of finding comprable cross-platform game programming APIs rather than how hard or easy it is. Oh, if I want to use SDL for cross-platform development then it is easy enough to create Mac, Linux, and Windows games, but you lose a good deal of features available in a pro game API like DirectX in the process. Something like SDL is for all intents and purposes a case of choosing the lowest common denominator verses platform specific tools and APIs that can give your game product truly outstanding performance and special features. Mac and Linux game APIs are a good generation behind what's available for the Windows platform that is a huge disadvantage for those platforms. There are commercial APIs such as FMOD Ex that closes the gap between Windows and Mac rather nicely, but then again it is a commercial third-party product. As I am all to aware there are licenses involved with something like FMOD that aren't really well suited for a small game studio like USA Games. It is expensive enough to license FMOD for one platform, but if you license it for multiple platforms the price goes up dramatically making it not financially feasable. There has to be a large enough Mac or Linux market out there for accessible games to make the use of FMOD and other commercial cross-platform APIs finantially viable alternatives to the free native APIs. So in the end you might have to settle on something decent like OpenAL that is good, but not particularly over the top. However, as the past couple of days has shown XAudio2 is emerging as a rather revolutionary and powerful API for Windows and the XBox. So I think as XAudio2 continues to be developed creating games with XAudio2 may offer me, the game developer, more advanced features and render some truly amazing audio environments. With something like OpenAL it will just offer me somewhat basic and rather generic audio support. In a feature by feature run down XAudio2 probably is the superior and more logical choice for future audio games. So cross-platform games, using cross-platform APIs, will only hold the games back from obtaining their maximum potential. At least that's how I see things currently. Now, I do know Draconis Entertainment is working on porting their games to Mac, but our situations are slightly different. Currently Draconis Entertainment's games such as Aliens in the Outback don't require a lot of high end features. For audio basically all they need to do is have some simple stereo panning and the ability to change the pitch of the starships as they land. Joystick support in Aliens in the Outback was always pretty generic so SDL probably could handle similar joystick support as the existing game now. Basically, what I am saying is Draconis can slide by on Mac's existing APIs because they aren't looking for or particularly need cutting edge audio and input support for a majority of their existing titles. However, I'm trying to create the next generation of audio games with highly professional 3d audio, support special game controllers, and basically pull out all the stops. Mac APIs don't really impress me, and aren't up to handling the kinds of games I want to begin creating in the next couple of years. For that reason cross-platform development isn't necessarily feasable in all cases. Cheers! On 3/20/10, Bryan Peterson wrote: > At least not right at first. Apparently there's no easy way to do this. > Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? > Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
At least not right at first. Apparently there's no easy way to do this. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: "Dennis" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 will you not support the mac? - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Charles Rivard'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 Hi, I am glad we're getting Heather back. Karen's not all that bad, but I, was a MOTA BETA owner since Beta 4, have gotten used to that one. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 Tom: Is this OK to share with other gaming and not gaming lists? Thanks. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 USA Games News March 18, 2010 Introduction Hello gamers, Welcome to another edition of the USA Games news letter. I know it has been a very long time since our last issue, and truth is there hasn't been much to say over the last couple of months or so. Mostly we have been involved in rewriting the core of our Genesis engine which has been a massive undertaking. More about that later. However, we finally have some good news on the way. It looks like 2010 is going to be a more productive year for us, and we are finally going to start delivering some of the titles we promised. That is certainly some good news in deed. So without further comment let's get straight to the news. Genesis Engine As many of you may recall back in early December we decided to rewrite our game engine, Genesis 3D, from scratch in C++. The rewrite was suppose to resolve several ongoing issues with Mysteries of the Ancients such as: problems with newer 64 byt Windows platforms, improve system performance, resolve some bugs do to Managed DirectX itself, to simplify the installation of the game, and possibly create cross-platform versions for Mac and Linux. To a large degree our rewrite that attempts to meet all of these design goals was a success over all. However, during the course of development we discovered that supporting cross-platform versions of our engine and games isn't technically or financially feasible at this time. For one thing there really is no standardized way to program an application for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Each of these platforms have there own unique libraries, tool kits, etc we call APIs that are often as different from each other as the operating systems themselves. This obviously makes it difficult to write anything that can be compiled and run on another operating system without some degree of rewriting some part of your program to support the new platform. While there are game APIs specifically designed to help create cross-platform games such as OpenAL, SFML, SDL, etc these APIs don't meet the same standards of DirectX or XNA, and lack features I would otherwise get by using a more professional API like DirectX. To explain this situation better imagine writing a game such as Raceway where you want to support special game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback support. While SDL, SFML, and DirectX all have reasonable support for standard devices like mice and keyboards the same can't be said about specialized game controllers like racing wheels. SDL, for example, has very generic joystick support that often doesn't work at all on Linux and Mac, and has no support for specialized game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback ability. This obviously is somewhat of a disadvantage as I can't provide the same degree of features on Mac and Linux releases that I could on Windows releases. Another case in point is DirectSound verses something like OpenAL. OpenAL is a decent audio API for Mac, I can't argue that, but at the same time it lacks features I could get with DirectSound. One very simple example is a stereo pan control. In games like Mysteries of the Ancients the sounds only need to be panned left and right. This is a simple process with DirectSound as it has a function for this. With OpenAL it was designed with 3d audio support in mind and it lacks a basic pan control which is over kill for a game like Mysteries of the Ancients. So in other words with OpenAL I have to use the 3d audio processing weather I need it or not. This is hardly ideal for a side-scroller. There
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Hi Dennis, As I outlined in my news letter we may eventually support the Mac, but for technical reasons we have no immediate plans to support the Mac at this time. One of the main reasons we aren't going to support the Mac is because of the fact Mac OS really doesn't have anything that compares to DirectX. Oh, there is SDL, but it lacks many features of DirectX which means Mac ports of our titles would lack features of the Windows release. As a result it is likely that Mac users would prefer to buy the Windows release and run it on their Mac's via Bootcamp or something similar. I don't think it is fair to the customer to pay the same price for software for their Mac, and not get all of the same features that Windows users have just because their platform doesn't support that feature currently. The other reason is market size. We recently ran a survey of the accessible games community and discovered considerably fewer Mac users than Windows users. From that standpoint alone the Mac simply isn't cost effective for an accessible game developer right now. The fact is the accessible games community is a pretty small minority market as it is, and we do well enough to sell to a Windows market. The market potential for Mac customers is considerably smaller and probably not going to be worth the time and expensive of rewriting a large portion of our games to run on that platform. The final reason is the fact I currently don't own a Mac myself. This means I'd have to borrow one from my in-laws to work on the project which isn't necessarily a workable solution since my brother-in-law uses it for work. So considering the fact I have to rewrite a certain portion of my games, recompile them, and test them on the Mac I'd probably have to purchase one specifically for the purpose. I'm cash strapped at the moment so that's something I'd put off until I have the money to invest in. So inconclusion it isn't a mattr of wanting too or not wanting too. I'd love to create more games for Mac and even Linux myself, but after researching it I've discovered it is pretty complicated, APIs like SDL have a long ways to go before they are equal to DirectX, and they are small minority markets to begin with. I am a Linux user myself, use it daily, but I prefer Windows for games just because the games that are developed, that can be developed, are better. Same holds true for Mac unfortunately. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
will you not support the mac? - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Charles Rivard'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 Hi, I am glad we're getting Heather back. Karen's not all that bad, but I, was a MOTA BETA owner since Beta 4, have gotten used to that one. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 Tom: Is this OK to share with other gaming and not gaming lists? Thanks. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 USA Games News March 18, 2010 Introduction Hello gamers, Welcome to another edition of the USA Games news letter. I know it has been a very long time since our last issue, and truth is there hasn't been much to say over the last couple of months or so. Mostly we have been involved in rewriting the core of our Genesis engine which has been a massive undertaking. More about that later. However, we finally have some good news on the way. It looks like 2010 is going to be a more productive year for us, and we are finally going to start delivering some of the titles we promised. That is certainly some good news in deed. So without further comment let's get straight to the news. Genesis Engine As many of you may recall back in early December we decided to rewrite our game engine, Genesis 3D, from scratch in C++. The rewrite was suppose to resolve several ongoing issues with Mysteries of the Ancients such as: problems with newer 64 byt Windows platforms, improve system performance, resolve some bugs do to Managed DirectX itself, to simplify the installation of the game, and possibly create cross-platform versions for Mac and Linux. To a large degree our rewrite that attempts to meet all of these design goals was a success over all. However, during the course of development we discovered that supporting cross-platform versions of our engine and games isn't technically or financially feasible at this time. For one thing there really is no standardized way to program an application for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Each of these platforms have there own unique libraries, tool kits, etc we call APIs that are often as different from each other as the operating systems themselves. This obviously makes it difficult to write anything that can be compiled and run on another operating system without some degree of rewriting some part of your program to support the new platform. While there are game APIs specifically designed to help create cross-platform games such as OpenAL, SFML, SDL, etc these APIs don't meet the same standards of DirectX or XNA, and lack features I would otherwise get by using a more professional API like DirectX. To explain this situation better imagine writing a game such as Raceway where you want to support special game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback support. While SDL, SFML, and DirectX all have reasonable support for standard devices like mice and keyboards the same can't be said about specialized game controllers like racing wheels. SDL, for example, has very generic joystick support that often doesn't work at all on Linux and Mac, and has no support for specialized game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback ability. This obviously is somewhat of a disadvantage as I can't provide the same degree of features on Mac and Linux releases that I could on Windows releases. Another case in point is DirectSound verses something like OpenAL. OpenAL is a decent audio API for Mac, I can't argue that, but at the same time it lacks features I could get with DirectSound. One very simple example is a stereo pan control. In games like Mysteries of the Ancients the sounds only need to be panned left and right. This is a simple process with DirectSound as it has a function for this. With OpenAL it was designed with 3d audio support in mind and it lacks a basic pan control which is over kill for a game like Mysteries of the Ancients. So in other words with OpenAL I have to use the 3d audio processing weather I need it or not. This is hardly ideal for a side-scroller. There are plenty of other technical issues I could mention here, but I won't. Needless to say creating cross-platform games is less than ideal for the developer or the end customer alike. There are, however, commercial routes I could take such as licensing Transgaming's Cedega and Cider cross-platform engines, but this is also expensive. Before I go that route I'd have t
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Hi, Yeah, that was a pretty popular feature request for beta 11. I guess a lot of people were turned off by Karen and wanted me to upload Heather to the web site or return it to the game. I figured since that many people were interested in having it I would make it the default game voice for beta 11. Plus I recently got my hands on the Sapi 5 version of Acapela Heather, not the Nextup.com version, and I've noticed it works better. it isn't quite as fussy as the version I was using, and makes less verbal mistakes. So you are actually getting a better voice recording as well. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Hi, I am glad we're getting Heather back. Karen's not all that bad, but I, was a MOTA BETA owner since Beta 4, have gotten used to that one. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 Tom: Is this OK to share with other gaming and not gaming lists? Thanks. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 > USA Games News > > March 18, 2010 > > Introduction > > Hello gamers, >Welcome to another edition of the USA Games news letter. I know it > has been a very long time since our last issue, and truth is there > hasn't been much to say over the last couple > of months or so. Mostly we have been involved in rewriting the core of > our Genesis engine > which has been a massive undertaking. More about that later. >However, we finally have some good news on the way. It looks like > 2010 is going to be a > more productive year for us, and we are finally going to start > delivering some of the titles > we promised. That is certainly some good news in deed. So without > further comment let's get > straight to the news. > > Genesis Engine > >As many of you may recall back in early December we decided to > rewrite our game engine, > Genesis 3D, from scratch in C++. The rewrite was suppose to resolve > several ongoing issues > with Mysteries of the Ancients such as: problems with newer 64 byt > Windows platforms, > improve system performance, resolve some bugs do to Managed DirectX > itself, to simplify the > installation of the game, and possibly create cross-platform versions > for Mac and Linux. To > a large degree our rewrite that attempts to meet all of these design > goals was a success > over all. However, during the course of development we discovered that > supporting > cross-platform versions of our engine and games isn't technically or > financially feasible at > this time. >For one thing there really is no standardized way to program an > application for Mac, > Linux, and Windows. Each of these platforms have there own unique > libraries, tool kits, etc > we call APIs that are often as different from each other as the > operating systems > themselves. This obviously makes it difficult to write anything that > can be compiled and run > on another operating system without some degree of rewriting some part > of your program to > support the new platform. While there are game APIs specifically > designed to help create > cross-platform games such as OpenAL, SFML, SDL, etc these APIs don't > meet the same standards > of DirectX or XNA, and lack features I would otherwise get by using > a more professional > API like DirectX. >To explain this situation better imagine writing a game such as > Raceway where you want > to support special game controllers such as a racing wheel with force > feedback support. > While SDL, SFML, and DirectX all have reasonable support for standard > devices like mice and > keyboards the same can't be said about specialized game controllers > like racing wheels. SDL, > for example, has very generic joystick support that often doesn't work > at all on Linux and > Mac, and has no support for specialized game controllers such as a > racing wheel with force > feedback ability. This obviously is somewhat of a disadvantage as I > can't provide the same > degree of features on Mac and Linux releases that I could on Windows > releases. > Another case in point is DirectSound verses something like OpenAL. > OpenAL is a decent audio > API for Mac, I can't argue that, but at the same time it lacks > features I could get with > DirectSound. One very simple example is a stereo pan control. In games > like Mysteries of the > Ancients the sounds only need to be panned left and right. This is a > simple process with > DirectSound as it has a function for this. With OpenAL it was designed > with 3d audio support > in mind and it lacks a basic pan control which is over kill for a game > like Mysteries of the > Ancients. So in other words with OpenAL I have to use the 3d audio > processing weather I need > it or not. This is hardly ideal for a side-scroller. >There are plenty of other technical issues I could mention here, > but I won't. Needless > to say creating cross-platform games is less than ideal for the > developer or the end > customer alike. There are, however
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Hi Charles, Sure. As long as it is on topic for the list you send it to I don't have any particular objection with it being sent to another list. Cheers! On 3/18/10, Charles Rivard wrote: > Tom: Is this OK to share with other gaming and not gaming lists? Thanks. > --- > In God we trust. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
Tom: Is this OK to share with other gaming and not gaming lists? Thanks. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010 USA Games News March 18, 2010 Introduction Hello gamers, Welcome to another edition of the USA Games news letter. I know it has been a very long time since our last issue, and truth is there hasn't been much to say over the last couple of months or so. Mostly we have been involved in rewriting the core of our Genesis engine which has been a massive undertaking. More about that later. However, we finally have some good news on the way. It looks like 2010 is going to be a more productive year for us, and we are finally going to start delivering some of the titles we promised. That is certainly some good news in deed. So without further comment let's get straight to the news. Genesis Engine As many of you may recall back in early December we decided to rewrite our game engine, Genesis 3D, from scratch in C++. The rewrite was suppose to resolve several ongoing issues with Mysteries of the Ancients such as: problems with newer 64 byt Windows platforms, improve system performance, resolve some bugs do to Managed DirectX itself, to simplify the installation of the game, and possibly create cross-platform versions for Mac and Linux. To a large degree our rewrite that attempts to meet all of these design goals was a success over all. However, during the course of development we discovered that supporting cross-platform versions of our engine and games isn't technically or financially feasible at this time. For one thing there really is no standardized way to program an application for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Each of these platforms have there own unique libraries, tool kits, etc we call APIs that are often as different from each other as the operating systems themselves. This obviously makes it difficult to write anything that can be compiled and run on another operating system without some degree of rewriting some part of your program to support the new platform. While there are game APIs specifically designed to help create cross-platform games such as OpenAL, SFML, SDL, etc these APIs don't meet the same standards of DirectX or XNA, and lack features I would otherwise get by using a more professional API like DirectX. To explain this situation better imagine writing a game such as Raceway where you want to support special game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback support. While SDL, SFML, and DirectX all have reasonable support for standard devices like mice and keyboards the same can't be said about specialized game controllers like racing wheels. SDL, for example, has very generic joystick support that often doesn't work at all on Linux and Mac, and has no support for specialized game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback ability. This obviously is somewhat of a disadvantage as I can't provide the same degree of features on Mac and Linux releases that I could on Windows releases. Another case in point is DirectSound verses something like OpenAL. OpenAL is a decent audio API for Mac, I can't argue that, but at the same time it lacks features I could get with DirectSound. One very simple example is a stereo pan control. In games like Mysteries of the Ancients the sounds only need to be panned left and right. This is a simple process with DirectSound as it has a function for this. With OpenAL it was designed with 3d audio support in mind and it lacks a basic pan control which is over kill for a game like Mysteries of the Ancients. So in other words with OpenAL I have to use the 3d audio processing weather I need it or not. This is hardly ideal for a side-scroller. There are plenty of other technical issues I could mention here, but I won't. Needless to say creating cross-platform games is less than ideal for the developer or the end customer alike. There are, however, commercial routes I could take such as licensing Transgaming's Cedega and Cider cross-platform engines, but this is also expensive. Before I go that route I'd have to be sure I'd get my money back on the investment, and from what I've seen so far the Mac and Linux markets are still too small to make this financially feasible. Writing accessible games doesn't make much money as it is without the cost of investing in expensive cross-platform tools for a small minority market within a small minority market. Cross-platform issues aside the engine itself is coming along very well. I've successfully rewritten the engine in C++. I have dropped support for the .NET Framework, and have rewritten the game as a native Win32 application with support for DirectX 8 and the FMOD Ex API. This should resolve most bugs/issues present in MOTA b
[Audyssey] USA Games News 3/18/2010
USA Games News March 18, 2010 Introduction Hello gamers, Welcome to another edition of the USA Games news letter. I know it has been a very long time since our last issue, and truth is there hasn't been much to say over the last couple of months or so. Mostly we have been involved in rewriting the core of our Genesis engine which has been a massive undertaking. More about that later. However, we finally have some good news on the way. It looks like 2010 is going to be a more productive year for us, and we are finally going to start delivering some of the titles we promised. That is certainly some good news in deed. So without further comment let's get straight to the news. Genesis Engine As many of you may recall back in early December we decided to rewrite our game engine, Genesis 3D, from scratch in C++. The rewrite was suppose to resolve several ongoing issues with Mysteries of the Ancients such as: problems with newer 64 byt Windows platforms, improve system performance, resolve some bugs do to Managed DirectX itself, to simplify the installation of the game, and possibly create cross-platform versions for Mac and Linux. To a large degree our rewrite that attempts to meet all of these design goals was a success over all. However, during the course of development we discovered that supporting cross-platform versions of our engine and games isn't technically or financially feasible at this time. For one thing there really is no standardized way to program an application for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Each of these platforms have there own unique libraries, tool kits, etc we call APIs that are often as different from each other as the operating systems themselves. This obviously makes it difficult to write anything that can be compiled and run on another operating system without some degree of rewriting some part of your program to support the new platform. While there are game APIs specifically designed to help create cross-platform games such as OpenAL, SFML, SDL, etc these APIs don't meet the same standards of DirectX or XNA, and lack features I would otherwise get by using a more professional API like DirectX. To explain this situation better imagine writing a game such as Raceway where you want to support special game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback support. While SDL, SFML, and DirectX all have reasonable support for standard devices like mice and keyboards the same can't be said about specialized game controllers like racing wheels. SDL, for example, has very generic joystick support that often doesn't work at all on Linux and Mac, and has no support for specialized game controllers such as a racing wheel with force feedback ability. This obviously is somewhat of a disadvantage as I can't provide the same degree of features on Mac and Linux releases that I could on Windows releases. Another case in point is DirectSound verses something like OpenAL. OpenAL is a decent audio API for Mac, I can't argue that, but at the same time it lacks features I could get with DirectSound. One very simple example is a stereo pan control. In games like Mysteries of the Ancients the sounds only need to be panned left and right. This is a simple process with DirectSound as it has a function for this. With OpenAL it was designed with 3d audio support in mind and it lacks a basic pan control which is over kill for a game like Mysteries of the Ancients. So in other words with OpenAL I have to use the 3d audio processing weather I need it or not. This is hardly ideal for a side-scroller. There are plenty of other technical issues I could mention here, but I won't. Needless to say creating cross-platform games is less than ideal for the developer or the end customer alike. There are, however, commercial routes I could take such as licensing Transgaming's Cedega and Cider cross-platform engines, but this is also expensive. Before I go that route I'd have to be sure I'd get my money back on the investment, and from what I've seen so far the Mac and Linux markets are still too small to make this financially feasible. Writing accessible games doesn't make much money as it is without the cost of investing in expensive cross-platform tools for a small minority market within a small minority market. Cross-platform issues aside the engine itself is coming along very well. I've successfully rewritten the engine in C++. I have dropped support for the .NET Framework, and have rewritten the game as a native Win32 application with support for DirectX 8 and the FMOD Ex API. This should resolve most bugs/issues present in MOTA beta 10 and earlier, and will greatly simplify the game installation for new customers. Since it uses native Windows libraries it should install and run on Windows XP or higher right out of the box so to speak As I write this the core of the engine itself is almost finished. This excludes tools such as a level editor, which I still have to write, but t
