Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
Hi it's Blind Fury I agree with your suggestions persuading companies to make games accesible not forcing the isue because I agree with that by forcing the issue it will make us look bad because we are supposed to be treated like everyone else instead of being catored too. Si if we just give them suggestions and tell what they could benefit if they made games accessible I think they would show a better attitude at looking at the issue instead of throwoing in our faces because we forced it. anyway reguards, Blind Fury - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal We have a better chance of persuading mainstream devs of the value of accessibility than we do of forcing i., But it's not happening without presenting them some serious statistics. We have to PERSUADE, not force here, or as Liam said we'll give the blind community a bad name. Besides, we need to convince them that they wouldn't be making a huge financial blunder. That was one of the things the folks at Audio Games wanted us to do when Soundvoyager was released, to play it and give Nintendo our hints and experiences. I myself did and have to admit that they seemed fairly open to the idea of accessibility to the blind. So if we can put together enough statistics and marshall a convincing argument, we might just sway a dev or two, and if enough devs take to the cause then more might be swayed as well. But trying to force the issue isn't going to get us anything but a bad reputation, and the reputation of the blind in some quarters probably could be better as it is. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: aaron danvers-jukes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal i have to agree with liam and che on this one. make suggestions, tell themwhy you want it accessible, but do not, and i repeat, do *not*, use force. regards, aaron ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
I have to agree. It's wrong to force a company to comply with the ADA to make their games accessible. You can make suggestions on how they can improve their games, but do not think that using force will help your cause. It will only hurt, and it will make the rest of us look bad. - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
to be honest, I can't see any effort to force a company to do anything will be too successful anyway, from personal experience (some of it rather nasty), accessibility is a matter of compromise on both sides. and obviously, as someone who's at least played almost every game in the audio gaming canon and bought most of them, I'm quite in to supporting our devs. If I weren't trying to write a Phd thesis (on disability as it happens), I'd try developing some games myself, but hopefully the audio game maker will let me do it in less time. I do think however, increasing awareness of the blind gaming community and some suggestions to companies about how to make games more accessible might be useful, sinse companies (as nintendo has already done), could certainly make a few adjustments to some (by no means all), of their games to make them more accessible. but I believe the efforts are being made in this direction already. Beware the grue! Dark. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
They just won't be games where you can save, unless the project gets more funding and they're able to build that feature into the program. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal and when audio game maker comes out I'm sure we'll see the number of games dramatically go up as audio game maker will make it real easy to make games. Josh - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
You can't force accessibility, for the reasons mentioned by Che and because accessible is a subjective term. What is accessible to you may not be accessible others. I make games for blind and partially sighted people but they won't work with a Braille display so people who are Deaf-Blind can't play them. Game companies respond to the market but gathering a few dozen signatures isn't going to change anything. Everyone here knows that the market is tiny and few developers are managing to sell more than a couple of hundred copies a year. Yet, there are 2 million people registered blind in the UK, I don't know how many more in the US, and I've just read that India has almost half a million blind children. The potential market is massive but until game developers can penetrate this market, it's going to go unnoticed. As a final thought, APH sell about 20 million dollars' worth of gadgets and assistive products a year and they obviously reach a lot of people. I found only one computer game in their catalogue, which was an antiquated word game. If you could get them, or other distributors, to publicise your games you would increase market awareness. Once you have a large enough market you'll find more developers wanting to get involved. - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
If they put a paypal button on their website I'l gladly donate all that I can. Josh - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal They just won't be games where you can save, unless the project gets more funding and they're able to build that feature into the program. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal and when audio game maker comes out I'm sure we'll see the number of games dramatically go up as audio game maker will make it real easy to make games. Josh - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
i have to agree with liam and che on this one. make suggestions, tell themwhy you want it accessible, but do not, and i repeat, do *not*, use force. regards, aaron ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
Funding from us isn't what's going to determine whether or not AGM is further developed. It's the foundation itself. All we really need to do is produce enough quality games and give them enough positive feedback that they can take it to the big bugs, say that this is what the consumers thought and, armed with that information, build the features that both we and they wanted in the program. But we gotta wait for its initial release to come out first. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal If they put a paypal button on their website I'l gladly donate all that I can. Josh - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal They just won't be games where you can save, unless the project gets more funding and they're able to build that feature into the program. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal and when audio game maker comes out I'm sure we'll see the number of games dramatically go up as audio game maker will make it real easy to make games. Josh - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
Yes, that's exactly what we need! We haven't got a lot of news on AGM, by the way, other than that we're still waiting for the software to come in and that one programmer is still busy (re)programming a few parts. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal Funding from us isn't what's going to determine whether or not AGM is further developed. It's the foundation itself. All we really need to do is produce enough quality games and give them enough positive feedback that they can take it to the big bugs, say that this is what the consumers thought and, armed with that information, build the features that both we and they wanted in the program. But we gotta wait for its initial release to come out first. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal If they put a paypal button on their website I'l gladly donate all that I can. Josh - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal They just won't be games where you can save, unless the project gets more funding and they're able to build that feature into the program. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal and when audio game maker comes out I'm sure we'll see the number of games dramatically go up as audio game maker will make it real easy to make games. Josh - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
You know, there are a few blind people who have never heard of accessible games. They just play mainstream games, and I think that if the developers were to make there games accessible, then a lot more blind people would jump at the chance to play them, me being one of them. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal We have a better chance of persuading mainstream devs of the value of accessibility than we do of forcing i., But it's not happening without presenting them some serious statistics. We have to PERSUADE, not force here, or as Liam said we'll give the blind community a bad name. Besides, we need to convince them that they wouldn't be making a huge financial blunder. That was one of the things the folks at Audio Games wanted us to do when Soundvoyager was released, to play it and give Nintendo our hints and experiences. I myself did and have to admit that they seemed fairly open to the idea of accessibility to the blind. So if we can put together enough statistics and marshall a convincing argument, we might just sway a dev or two, and if enough devs take to the cause then more might be swayed as well. But trying to force the issue isn't going to get us anything but a bad reputation, and the reputation of the blind in some quarters probably could be better as it is. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: aaron danvers-jukes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal i have to agree with liam and che on this one. make suggestions, tell themwhy you want it accessible, but do not, and i repeat, do *not*, use force. regards, aaron ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
This is certainly something I'd be glad to help with as well, when the time comes. It's sort of a win win situation, the community gets more games to play, those of us who can't program get to make games, and richard and co get funding to improve matters with the Agm. I think that with all the work being put into it it'd be a great shame if the Agm doesn't recieve enough support. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal Yes, that's exactly what we need! We haven't got a lot of news on AGM, by the way, other than that we're still waiting for the software to come in and that one programmer is still busy (re)programming a few parts. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal Funding from us isn't what's going to determine whether or not AGM is further developed. It's the foundation itself. All we really need to do is produce enough quality games and give them enough positive feedback that they can take it to the big bugs, say that this is what the consumers thought and, armed with that information, build the features that both we and they wanted in the program. But we gotta wait for its initial release to come out first. Bryan and Jennie ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
But it goes back to convincing devs to make their games accessible, since they're not just going to do it. We'd have to find out just how many blind gamers there are out there, how many of them would play games that mainstream devs made accessible (and probably a whole lot of other information), then get someone who's actually interested enough to consider what we found out. Even once we get all the statistics you have to have someone willing to learn, and not all mainstream devs are. They're either afraid of how much it would cost, or they don't want to be known as an accessibility company, whatever the heck that means. They seem to think that making accessible games, even if they built a toggle into their game so that each player could have it set up the way he or she wanted it, might tarnish their reputation or make people take them less seriously. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: david [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal You know, there are a few blind people who have never heard of accessible games. They just play mainstream games, and I think that if the developers were to make there games accessible, then a lot more blind people would jump at the chance to play them, me being one of them. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal We have a better chance of persuading mainstream devs of the value of accessibility than we do of forcing i., But it's not happening without presenting them some serious statistics. We have to PERSUADE, not force here, or as Liam said we'll give the blind community a bad name. Besides, we need to convince them that they wouldn't be making a huge financial blunder. That was one of the things the folks at Audio Games wanted us to do when Soundvoyager was released, to play it and give Nintendo our hints and experiences. I myself did and have to admit that they seemed fairly open to the idea of accessibility to the blind. So if we can put together enough statistics and marshall a convincing argument, we might just sway a dev or two, and if enough devs take to the cause then more might be swayed as well. But trying to force the issue isn't going to get us anything but a bad reputation, and the reputation of the blind in some quarters probably could be better as it is. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: aaron danvers-jukes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal i have to agree with liam and che on this one. make suggestions, tell themwhy you want it accessible, but do not, and i repeat, do *not*, use force. regards, aaron ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
Well, hope all goes well. My girlfriend is looking forward to experimenting with AGM almost more than I am. This is real cool considering she isn't blind or visually impaired. No doubt she and I'll produce some cool titles when it comes out and hopefully we'l present enough statistics so you guys can get more funding and put more of the features you wanted in there. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: AudioGames.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal Yes, that's exactly what we need! We haven't got a lot of news on AGM, by the way, other than that we're still waiting for the software to come in and that one programmer is still busy (re)programming a few parts. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal Funding from us isn't what's going to determine whether or not AGM is further developed. It's the foundation itself. All we really need to do is produce enough quality games and give them enough positive feedback that they can take it to the big bugs, say that this is what the consumers thought and, armed with that information, build the features that both we and they wanted in the program. But we gotta wait for its initial release to come out first. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal If they put a paypal button on their website I'l gladly donate all that I can. Josh - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal They just won't be games where you can save, unless the project gets more funding and they're able to build that feature into the program. Bryan and Jennie - Original Message - From: Josh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal and when audio game maker comes out I'm sure we'll see the number of games dramatically go up as audio game maker will make it real easy to make games. Josh - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
You know, there are a few blind people who have never heard of accessible games. My point exactly. If you increase awareness you'll increase the size of the market and once you've got thousands of people buying games and not just a few dozen, larger developers will start to take notice. There's no shortage of blind people. You don't need to create more blind people, you need to create more blind gamers! Steve ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
i would love to find out how to make games yes you do have a point on this - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 1:44 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.0/689 - Release Date: 15/02/2007 17:40 ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal
and when audio game maker comes out I'm sure we'll see the number of games dramatically go up as audio game maker will make it real easy to make games. Josh - Original Message - From: Che [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Forcing accessibility was: deal or no deal I for one don't think we have any business trying to force companies to make their games accessible. First of all, for the vast majority of games, it simply cannot be done, it would be like trying to force the car manufacturers to make their automobiles accessible. Secondly, it places a black mark on the perception of blind folks in general, as people will roll their eyes and say Well here go the blind again, asking the many to sacrifice for the few for no good reason. If I thought even a small percentage of mainstream games could be made accessible, I would feel differently, but I'm afraid you are spitting in the wind on this one. We're just going to have to accept the fact we're dependant on a handful of developers to make games for us due to our small market, and help them out as much as we can by buying their games. Or, like me, you can learn how to program games yourself and create quality games for the blind. Out. Che - Original Message - From: Dennis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] deal or no deal? Hi, my friend and I are attempting through legal remendies to force companies to make there computer games accessible to people with visual impairments or any other handicap the more people we have the better our chances! Feel free to contact me or my friend penny my email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Penny's email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
