Re: [Audyssey] the save game option
Hi Yohandy, I agree that difficulty and trophies are both good aspects to have in a game. Eventually I would like to add a trophy system in my games, but since I am running out of time before Christmas i doubt I'll be putting one in to MOTA right away. However, a system of rewards is always fun and nice to have. Yohandy wrote: well put man! If I don't get rewarded for doing something in games, then is there much point in doing so? MK combo challenges for instance. If it weren't for that platinum trophy, I probably wouldn't have bothered with it. Truth is it was extremely hard, and very frustrating. I felt like throwing the controller through a window at times. But when I finally got it, it was all worth it. My sighted friend kept saying man you're not gonna get that platinum, it's too hard. just give up. How wrong he turned out to be. hah! now I have it and he doesn't. mwahaha. Thomas, I'm not referring to your game here or any particular game for that matter, I'm referring to audio games in general. We certainly need lots more difficulty, and rewards. Liam definitely had the right idea by adding trophies to judgment day. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the save game option
Hi Scott, Well, if we are talking about scoring and posting those scores to a score board the save game feature should be disabled in order to make it fairfor everyone posting to the score board. The GMA engine does this in games like GMA Tank Commander. You can choose to play the game by selecting the standard mode with save games, no scoring, ability to use cheat codes, and just to play without requiring much skill at all. On the other hand you can select arcade mode where you aren't allowed to use cheat codes, save games, and you win or lose based on skill alone. That is a fair system when we are talking about scoring and posting those scores to ascore board as that puts everyone on an equal footing. Smile. Scott Chesworth wrote: Amen! It wouldn't be appropriate to all games of course, but for a game where a big part of showing your skill is posting your scores online, perhaps one way to demonstrate who's an expert and who's gotten to the end of a stage by saving every couple of moves would be to have a number of saves per stage posted as part of your stats. That way, the recognition could be there amongst the types of gamers who care to check these things. But in all honesty, in the case of MOTA, I'd say we're overthinking this beyond reason. Save less, risk more, that be the key folks. Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the save game option
well put man! If I don't get rewarded for doing something in games, then is there much point in doing so? MK combo challenges for instance. If it weren't for that platinum trophy, I probably wouldn't have bothered with it. Truth is it was extremely hard, and very frustrating. I felt like throwing the controller through a window at times. But when I finally got it, it was all worth it. My sighted friend kept saying man you're not gonna get that platinum, it's too hard. just give up. How wrong he turned out to be. hah! now I have it and he doesn't. mwahaha. Thomas, I'm not referring to your game here or any particular game for that matter, I'm referring to audio games in general. We certainly need lots more difficulty, and rewards. Liam definitely had the right idea by adding trophies to judgment day. - Original Message - From: "Ryan Strunk" To: "'Charles Rivard'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the save game option Charles et al, I'm going to try to put this across in the best way I can without coming off arrogant. Please excuse in advance any ego implied by this post. I think you're absolutely right. In a lot of ways, the save game option is like the difficulty setting of the game. Nobody is saying that you need to play on a certain difficulty level, and it's up to you, the individual gamer, to make that distinction. The upshot of harder difficulty levels, aside from the pride in beating them, is that the skilled player usually gets a better reward. In the case of MOTA it's a higher score. However, there is nothing to separate the player who tackles expert mode without saving from the lucky guy who tackles expert and saves every two steps, restoring when necessary--and that, I think, is where the problem lies. I think anyone who tackles a game and masters it thoroughly hopes to be recognized for doing so. Beyond that, though, I think--especially in our market--that we can't generally make a game too difficult. One has to make an exception for Techno Shock and the enemies who shoot the player as soon as they see him, but in general the principle holds. Far too many of our games have set a very low difficulty bar, and I think it's resulted in some rather coddled gamers. When the first version of Monte was released--James North's version--he used true 2D movement. If your character jumped, and you pressed right arrow twice while in the air, you would make a short jump. If your character jumped, and you pressed right arrow six or seven times, your character jumped a lot further. (Side note: this is how most mainstream games of this style go, though you usually held the arrow key as you jumped). Additionally every jump in Monte came with a burst of elevation, which meant that trying to jump off a rope meant that one could hit one's head on the ceiling if the character was too close to it. I remember someone writing a post to the list at one point saying something to this effect. "James, I spent over an hour trying to figure out that rope puzzle you put into the game, and it was way too hard. You should take that out." Whether we're dealing with "rope puzzles," game saves, or difficulty settings, though, I think the concept is the same. Those of us who have had experience with mainstream games want something closer to what we're used to. On a more basic level, though, I think what's really needed is a general raising of the bar for everyone involved. We have to understand that a well crafted game shouldn't be beaten in a matter of hours right out of the proverbial box, and we have to be willing to struggle and work at a thing in order to be good at it. If we as gamers allow ourselves to be coddled by games that are too easy, we can't ever raise that bar. Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:48 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] the save game option If there is an option of a game that I never use, I certainly would not complain about it being there. That would make no sense. The key is that it is an option, not a demand that you must use it. It's up to each gamer as to whether he or she uses it. What could be unfair about that? --- Shepherds are the best beasts. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding t
Re: [Audyssey] the save game option
Amen! It wouldn't be appropriate to all games of course, but for a game where a big part of showing your skill is posting your scores online, perhaps one way to demonstrate who's an expert and who's gotten to the end of a stage by saving every couple of moves would be to have a number of saves per stage posted as part of your stats. That way, the recognition could be there amongst the types of gamers who care to check these things. But in all honesty, in the case of MOTA, I'd say we're overthinking this beyond reason. Save less, risk more, that be the key folks. Scott On 10/6/09, Ryan Strunk wrote: > Charles et al, > > I'm going to try to put this across in the best way I can without coming off > arrogant. Please excuse in advance any ego implied by this post. > > I think you're absolutely right. In a lot of ways, the save game option is > like the difficulty setting of the game. Nobody is saying that you need to > play on a certain difficulty level, and it's up to you, the individual > gamer, to make that distinction. The upshot of harder difficulty levels, > aside from the pride in beating them, is that the skilled player usually > gets a better reward. In the case of MOTA it's a higher score. > > However, there is nothing to separate the player who tackles expert mode > without saving from the lucky guy who tackles expert and saves every two > steps, restoring when necessary--and that, I think, is where the problem > lies. > > I think anyone who tackles a game and masters it thoroughly hopes to be > recognized for doing so. Beyond that, though, I think--especially in our > market--that we can't generally make a game too difficult. One has to make > an exception for Techno Shock and the enemies who shoot the player as soon > as they see him, but in general the principle holds. Far too many of our > games have set a very low difficulty bar, and I think it's resulted in some > rather coddled gamers. > > When the first version of Monte was released--James North's version--he used > true 2D movement. If your character jumped, and you pressed right arrow > twice while in the air, you would make a short jump. If your character > jumped, and you pressed right arrow six or seven times, your character > jumped a lot further. (Side note: this is how most mainstream games of this > style go, though you usually held the arrow key as you jumped). Additionally > every jump in Monte came with a burst of elevation, which meant that trying > to jump off a rope meant that one could hit one's head on the ceiling if the > character was too close to it. > > I remember someone writing a post to the list at one point saying something > to this effect. "James, I spent over an hour trying to figure out that rope > puzzle you put into the game, and it was way too hard. You should take that > out." > > Whether we're dealing with "rope puzzles," game saves, or difficulty > settings, though, I think the concept is the same. Those of us who have had > experience with mainstream games want something closer to what we're used > to. On a more basic level, though, I think what's really needed is a general > raising of the bar for everyone involved. We have to understand that a well > crafted game shouldn't be beaten in a matter of hours right out of the > proverbial box, and we have to be willing to struggle and work at a thing in > order to be good at it. If we as gamers allow ourselves to be coddled by > games that are too easy, we can't ever raise that bar. > > Ryan > > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Charles Rivard > Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:48 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] the save game option > > If there is an option of a game that I never use, I certainly would not > complain about it being there. That would make no sense. The key is that > it is an option, not a demand that you must use it. It's up to each gamer > as to whether he or she uses it. What could be unfair about that? > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concern
Re: [Audyssey] the save game option
Charles et al, I'm going to try to put this across in the best way I can without coming off arrogant. Please excuse in advance any ego implied by this post. I think you're absolutely right. In a lot of ways, the save game option is like the difficulty setting of the game. Nobody is saying that you need to play on a certain difficulty level, and it's up to you, the individual gamer, to make that distinction. The upshot of harder difficulty levels, aside from the pride in beating them, is that the skilled player usually gets a better reward. In the case of MOTA it's a higher score. However, there is nothing to separate the player who tackles expert mode without saving from the lucky guy who tackles expert and saves every two steps, restoring when necessary--and that, I think, is where the problem lies. I think anyone who tackles a game and masters it thoroughly hopes to be recognized for doing so. Beyond that, though, I think--especially in our market--that we can't generally make a game too difficult. One has to make an exception for Techno Shock and the enemies who shoot the player as soon as they see him, but in general the principle holds. Far too many of our games have set a very low difficulty bar, and I think it's resulted in some rather coddled gamers. When the first version of Monte was released--James North's version--he used true 2D movement. If your character jumped, and you pressed right arrow twice while in the air, you would make a short jump. If your character jumped, and you pressed right arrow six or seven times, your character jumped a lot further. (Side note: this is how most mainstream games of this style go, though you usually held the arrow key as you jumped). Additionally every jump in Monte came with a burst of elevation, which meant that trying to jump off a rope meant that one could hit one's head on the ceiling if the character was too close to it. I remember someone writing a post to the list at one point saying something to this effect. "James, I spent over an hour trying to figure out that rope puzzle you put into the game, and it was way too hard. You should take that out." Whether we're dealing with "rope puzzles," game saves, or difficulty settings, though, I think the concept is the same. Those of us who have had experience with mainstream games want something closer to what we're used to. On a more basic level, though, I think what's really needed is a general raising of the bar for everyone involved. We have to understand that a well crafted game shouldn't be beaten in a matter of hours right out of the proverbial box, and we have to be willing to struggle and work at a thing in order to be good at it. If we as gamers allow ourselves to be coddled by games that are too easy, we can't ever raise that bar. Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:48 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] the save game option If there is an option of a game that I never use, I certainly would not complain about it being there. That would make no sense. The key is that it is an option, not a demand that you must use it. It's up to each gamer as to whether he or she uses it. What could be unfair about that? --- Shepherds are the best beasts. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
