Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons

[Jon Stevens]

on 3/9/01 1:15 PM, "David Duddleston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Just another rant Even after a few years, it still bugs me that license
> and copyright mark on each piece of Apache code is so darn long. Even a dog
> knows it only takes a few drops to marks its territory.
> 
> -david

Tell that to the lawyers.

-jon


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IRC Server Information

[Jon Stevens]

cvs.working-dogs.com:6667

#jakarta

I just setup my client to always be logged in to that channel and it logs
the channel by default.

-jon


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Re: NNTP access

[Jon Stevens]

on 3/12/01 10:48 AM, "Remy Maucherat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I was checking out netbeans, and I noticed on their news page that they now
> had NNTP access to some of their mailing lists. Since netbeans.org is hosted
> by collab.net, I was wondering if it would be possible to get something
> similar for the apache.org mailing lists.
> 
> Remy

Sure! Setup your own NNTP server and subscribe an address which relays it to
your server. :-)

-jon


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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Jon Stevens]

on 3/13/01 2:19 AM, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Largely, Jon has been managing the overall Jakarta site, and I'm quite sure
> that he would eagerly welcome anybody who would like to share the burden.
> Two constraints - content should be on jakarta.apache.org, and the look and
> feel should be consistent with other Jakarta pages.
> 
> - Sam Ruby

Yup. I'm damn tired of it.

The following people currently have commit access:

avail|brian,duncan,jon,stefano,pier,costin,rubys,akv,jhunter,preston,shemnon
,shachor,arnout,bergsten,craigmcc,ed,alex,bodewig,remm,jvanzyl,gstein,nacho,
hgomez,ceki,donaldp,husted,keith,danmil,larryi,marcsaeg,fede,bburns,mstover1
,chrise,mpoeschl|jakarta-site,jakarta-site2,jakarta-site-old

If you really care about the Jakarta project, you would help out with the
management of the website.

It is funny. Have any of you noticed that the amount of misdirected email to
this list (and other lists) has gone down *significantly*???
Or that people are not posting as much crap HTML email any longer?

The reason is because I took the initiative to split the page into two and
make the first page explain in detail what list to subscribe to.

A little website change makes a HUGE difference on everyone. People don't
seem to realize that literally hundreds of thousands of people look at the
Jakarta website.

Sigh. I'm tired.

-jon


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Re: status?

[Jon Stevens]

on 3/12/01 2:14 PM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I need to fix my installation of Anakia so I can compile the main site
> before making any other changes myself.

There is no "installation of Anakia". Check the module out of CVS and run
it.

-jon

-- 
If you come from a Perl or PHP background, JSP is a way to take
your pain to new levels. --Anonymous



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Re: Contibuting to the Jakarta Project

[Jon Stevens]

on 3/12/01 4:12 PM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This sums up "How to get involved" rather nicely
> 
> < http://w4.metronet.com/~wjm/tomcat/2000/Nov/msg00073.html >
> 
> It sounds like you might want to share your mod_jk patch with the
> Tomcat-Dev list. 

Instead of just repeatedly pasting links here, you should add them to the
website so that we have a nice collection of indexed sharable knowledge.

I did it for you this time.

-jon


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Re: [PROPOSAL] The Commons

[Jon Stevens]

on 3/9/01 1:15 PM, "David Duddleston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have to side a little with Peter Donald on this, if you are serious about
> achieving this goal, then it is better to work with an existing project that
> is attempting to achieve some of the same goals.

s/Peter Donald/Jon Stevens/

I have been saying that for a LOT longer than Peter has. Sorry, I just
needed to point that out.

-jon


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email snafu

[Jon Stevens]

Due to an email snafu, I haven't been reading this group for about a week
now. :-( I apologize if I missed something. I will try to catch up.

-jon


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RE: Where is the path

[Conor MacNeill]

Andy,

The path to enlightenment lies on the tomcat-user mailing list.

Conor


> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Cole [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2001 1:46 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Where is the path
>
>
> Hi. Hope that someone can enlighten me. Thanks in advance.
> I tried to understand the coding in the HelloWorldExample for the servlet
> testing..
> In the helloworld.html, it has a code to locate the
> HelloWorldExample class
> file from
> ref="../servlet/HelloWorldExample. This actually redirects to the folders
> for ../WEB-INF/classess/HelloWorldExample.. May I know which file actually
> map ../servlet to ../WEB-INF/classes/?
>
>
> ---
> FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
> Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
>
>
>
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Where is the path

[Andy Cole]

Hi. Hope that someone can enlighten me. Thanks in advance.
I tried to understand the coding in the HelloWorldExample for the servlet
testing..
In the helloworld.html, it has a code to locate the HelloWorldExample class
file from
ref="../servlet/HelloWorldExample. This actually redirects to the folders
for ../WEB-INF/classess/HelloWorldExample.. May I know which file actually
map ../servlet to ../WEB-INF/classes/?


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Re: [NOTICE] + [PROPOSAL] nightly builds + nightly source checkouts

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Jon Stevens wrote:

> Hey all,
> 
> 
> [NOTICE]
> Brian asked me to remind you to clean up the nightly builds so that we don't
> have tons of old stuff eating up disk space.
> 
> Example:
> /x2/www/jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/nightly
> 
> jakarta-tomcat-4.0/nightly > du -sk
> 424790  .
> 
> 424790 megs seems like a lot to me.
> 

Will be restarting my "clean out" job shortly.

> There are files all the way back to 20010216 which seems a bit excessive.
> Also excessive seems to be the .Z and .gz versions. I think it is safe to
> assume in this day and age that everyone can install gunzip on their server.
> 
> 
> [PROPOSAL]
> I would like to finagle this email into another discussion as well which is
> coming up with a more centralized system for doing nightly builds as well as
> nightly source checkouts.
> 

+1, but see further discussion below on the details

> Right now, we have cronjobs run by a number of different people putting
> files in a number of different locations. It would be nice to try to
> centralize this down to just one primary script and one configuration file
> that handles this the majority of this stuff.
> 
> So, in the builds directory, I would like to propose setting something up
> that looks like this:
> 
> /www/jakarta.apache.org
> builds/
> scripts/
> build-all.sh (or .pl or .py)
> cleanup-all.sh (or .pl or .py)
> build.conf
> projects/
> velocity-source.sh (or .pl or .py)
> velocity-build.sh (or .pl or .py)
> tomcat-4.0-source.sh (or .pl or .py)
> tomcat-4.0-build.sh (or .pl or .py)
> ...
> ...
> 
> build.conf:
> baseDirectory=/www/jakarta.apache.org/builds
> projectsDirectory=$baseDirectory/projects
> daysToKeep=7
> 
> We could then have the build-all script run through the projects directory
> looking for scripts to execute. It would first attempt to execute all of the
> "*source*" scripts it finds and then attempt to execute all of the "*build*"
> scripts it finds. What this would allow is for projects to have their own
> scripts to be run in order to do any source/build specific things for their
> projects. It would also allow for individual testing. Adding a new project
> is as simple as adding another set of scripts.
> 

We will want each subproject to maintain their own versions
(e.g. tomcat-4.0-source.sh and tomcat-4.0-build.sh) according to the
standard conventions, so that no one person would need to stay up to date
on all the subproject build procedures.

We will also want a few things like stable releases of Ant, XML parsers,
etc. installed in "well known" places for build processes that require
access to them.

> The individual scripts could set what their "output" directory is based on
> the projectsDirectory + projectName. projectsDirectory would be passed in to
> the source/build scripts on ARGV[0].
> 
> The cleanup-all.sh script would be a global cleanup script that would run at
> the end of the build-all.sh script to prune the files in the directories,
> keeping the "daysToKeep" number of files.
> 
> I know that I have most of the framework already done for the
> "project-build.sh" scripts and the "cleanup-all.sh" scripts, but I don't
> have the frameworks for the build scripts, however, I know that some
> projects already have that. Maybe we could consolidate those into this
> system?
> 
> Notes: In order to put a system like this into place, we will also need to
> have everyone shut off their existing cronjobs. :-)
> 

+1 for me (who does Servletapi, Tomcat 4.0, Struts, Watchdog), as soon as
it is ready.

> Sam, I'm sure that this probably fits into Gump somewhere as well, however,
> I'm not sure I want to or feel the need to go that far and come up with the
> "perfect" solution at this point. What do you feel about that?
> 

IMHO Gump serves a different, also valid, purpose as a tinderbox detector
of incompatibilities.

The goal of nightly builds is different -- it is to create something that
ought to be marginally usable.  For that reason, a nightly build would use
a stable Ant (for example), instead of hot-off-the-CVS code that Gump
uses.

That being said, it might well be possible to tweak the Gump scripts so
that they operate in a different mode for nightly builds.  Sam?

> Comments?
> 
> -jon
> 

Craig McClanahan


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[NOTICE] + [PROPOSAL] nightly builds + nightly source checkouts

[Jon Stevens]

Hey all,


[NOTICE]
Brian asked me to remind you to clean up the nightly builds so that we don't
have tons of old stuff eating up disk space.

Example:
/x2/www/jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-tomcat-4.0/nightly

jakarta-tomcat-4.0/nightly > du -sk
424790  .

424790 megs seems like a lot to me.

There are files all the way back to 20010216 which seems a bit excessive.
Also excessive seems to be the .Z and .gz versions. I think it is safe to
assume in this day and age that everyone can install gunzip on their server.


[PROPOSAL]
I would like to finagle this email into another discussion as well which is
coming up with a more centralized system for doing nightly builds as well as
nightly source checkouts.

Right now, we have cronjobs run by a number of different people putting
files in a number of different locations. It would be nice to try to
centralize this down to just one primary script and one configuration file
that handles this the majority of this stuff.

So, in the builds directory, I would like to propose setting something up
that looks like this:

/www/jakarta.apache.org
builds/
scripts/
build-all.sh (or .pl or .py)
cleanup-all.sh (or .pl or .py)
build.conf
projects/
velocity-source.sh (or .pl or .py)
velocity-build.sh (or .pl or .py)
tomcat-4.0-source.sh (or .pl or .py)
tomcat-4.0-build.sh (or .pl or .py)
...
...

build.conf:
baseDirectory=/www/jakarta.apache.org/builds
projectsDirectory=$baseDirectory/projects
daysToKeep=7

We could then have the build-all script run through the projects directory
looking for scripts to execute. It would first attempt to execute all of the
"*source*" scripts it finds and then attempt to execute all of the "*build*"
scripts it finds. What this would allow is for projects to have their own
scripts to be run in order to do any source/build specific things for their
projects. It would also allow for individual testing. Adding a new project
is as simple as adding another set of scripts.

The individual scripts could set what their "output" directory is based on
the projectsDirectory + projectName. projectsDirectory would be passed in to
the source/build scripts on ARGV[0].

The cleanup-all.sh script would be a global cleanup script that would run at
the end of the build-all.sh script to prune the files in the directories,
keeping the "daysToKeep" number of files.

I know that I have most of the framework already done for the
"project-build.sh" scripts and the "cleanup-all.sh" scripts, but I don't
have the frameworks for the build scripts, however, I know that some
projects already have that. Maybe we could consolidate those into this
system?

Notes: In order to put a system like this into place, we will also need to
have everyone shut off their existing cronjobs. :-)

Sam, I'm sure that this probably fits into Gump somewhere as well, however,
I'm not sure I want to or feel the need to go that far and come up with the
"perfect" solution at this point. What do you feel about that?

Comments?

-jon


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Re: JCP Survey

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

"Michael, Colin" wrote:
> 
> Who, exactly, is doing this survey? Does not appear to be from Sun. Is there
> a link to this from the Sun website?

Found a link to  www.kingbrown.com in their page, who claim to do
'intelligent market research, and claims Sun as a client.

geir

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Developing for the web?  See http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/

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RE: [PROPOSAL] The Commons - web connector

[cmanolache]

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, GOMEZ Henri wrote:

> Still no response for this sub-project proposal.

A big +1

This will also reduce the pressure on making changes in the "stable" code.
If a bug is found in the connector - we can just make a new release of the
connector ( both sides ), without a need to make a dot.dot release of 
tomcat.

( tomcat 3.3 should still include the current mod_jk, with some of the
fixes that are "safe" and/or proven in the new potential module )


BTW, if the "commons" project is aproved, than this can
be a part of the "sandbox"/"agora" - and it doesn't require any special
aproval from PMC or other projects ( only a vote on tomcat-dev).



> I saw at least 4 potentials commiters working on it :
> 
> - Dan Milstein, our resident hacker/expert of mod_jk.
> - Keith Wannamaker, webdav specialist
> - Pier P. Fumagalli, mod_jserv and mod_webapp father
> - I, Henri Gomez, mod_jk and adaptation to Apache 2.0 

I can help with some performance and a bit in the C side.

Costin


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RE: [PROPOSAL] The Commons - web connector

[GOMEZ Henri]

Still no response for this sub-project proposal.

The upcoming PMC could be an occasion to speak about it.

I saw at least 4 potentials commiters working on it :

- Dan Milstein, our resident hacker/expert of mod_jk.
- Keith Wannamaker, webdav specialist
- Pier P. Fumagalli, mod_jserv and mod_webapp father
- I, Henri Gomez, mod_jk and adaptation to Apache 2.0 

We start speaking of an updated mod_jk with ajp13++ (ajp14)
which must fix current known problem like :

- lack of security between Apache / Tomcat 
  Tomcat accept connection from anybody to it's ajp12/ajp13 
  connector. We may add so trivial authentification scheme
  at least at connect time. 
  Nothing too expensive but last days on Tomcat list there is
  an interesting Thread on 'Encrypting password' ('challenge-response')
  
- problem with large upload between client -> apache -> tomcat.
  If tomcat is broken between the upload we just couldn't do anything
  with remaining data and load-balancing/fault-tolerant will be no help
  there. We must have a persitant storage used in these upload case (flat
file ?)

- context loading/unloading information could be sent from  
  Tomcat to Apache to let him choose a working Tomcat for 
  the requested context. Indispensable in production site with
  many virutal where admin will want to update specific context.

- mod_jk handle load-balancing but many will just want a simple 
  fault-tolerant configuration. I Tomcat1 fail just go to Tomcat2,
  and just in that case.


Thanks to comment.


>Hi to all,
>
>What about a new sub-project, web connector, where all
>the developpement on mod_jserv and mod_jk 
>(and why not mod_webapp) could live.
>
>Apache 1.3 and 2.0 are allready supported by mod_jk but also
>IIS, AOL, and NES (iPlanet) even JNI.
>
>Tomcat's 3.x and 4.x provide interfaces (modules,
>interceptor or whatever) that these connectors will implement :)
>
>A project which could be in The Commons even if there is 
>still C code inside but also many java part (TC mod/interceptor).
>
>We could (must) see Tomcat 4.x use mod_jk or Tomcat 3.x use
>mod_webapp from Apache 2.0...
>
>Comments ?

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RE: JCP Survey

[Peter Donald]

At 02:35  13/3/01 -0500, Michael, Colin wrote:
>Who, exactly, is doing this survey? Does not appear to be from Sun. Is there
>a link to this from the Sun website?

Yep - the JCP website lists it on their new page...
Cheers,

Pete

*-*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."   |
|  - John Kenneth Galbraith   |
*-*


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RE: JCP Survey

[Michael, Colin]

Who, exactly, is doing this survey? Does not appear to be from Sun. Is there
a link to this from the Sun website?

-Original Message-
From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
For those of you interested in future of java I would reccomend that you
visit a survey at 

http://208.29.156.209/surveys_0/sun200/welcome.htm

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RE: tomcat cvs

[GOMEZ Henri]

It reworks now (00:18 CET)

May be something bad with my socks5 server.


>>
>> I still can't access jakarta-tomcat cvs in anonymous .
>> But it works well for jakarta-ecs !
>
>I can:
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/2001-03-13/cvs_jakarta-to
>mcat.html
>
>- Sam Ruby
>
>
>-
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Re: class loader separation of API and implementation in tomcat

[Peter Larsson]

Hi there,

Formally I agree with you, but there are no practical obstacles to use others
XML implementations as far as they use the same version of the "API" as tomcat
does.

We have work-arounded this problem by implementing our own XML/XSLT Factory,
and are currently using Oracles XML/XSLT stuff in a tomcat environment.

thanks,

-- peter



"Blohm, Henning" wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> I had a problem with the tomcat 3.1 release that I hoped would be resolved
> by newer releases, but it seems that that never happened:
> Since tomcat is a framework that integrates Java code it seems natural that
> tomcat should have a class loader hierarchy that cleanly separates the
> tomcat implementation classes from the API, so that there is no class
> collisions between classes used by an application and by tomcat itself.
> Although tomcat seems to follow that principle when loading servlets, it
> doesn't apply it to itself. Just yesterday, I downloaded the 3.2.1 release
> and it seems that you still have to put parser.jar and jaxp.jar from the
> tomcat's lib folder into the main classpath which effectively prohibites the
> use of other xml libraries (with the same class names but different
> implementations) in servlets.
> Is this really true? Is there a way to configure tomcat so that you do not
> have to worry about any classes the tomcat implementation loads?
> For a production environment that must be able to accept any web application
> as long as it complies to the servlet API, this behaviour seems unacceptable
> to me...
> Does anybody know of a solution?
> Thank you!
> Henning
> Ps: Nevertheless, I think tomcat is truly a great open source project!
>
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Re: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/docs/site dirlayout.html

[Peter Donald]

At 06:56  13/3/01 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   src/
>   Source code.
>  
>   If the source code contains only code in the Java language, then
>   the contents of the src/ directory should mirror the package
>   hierarchy. Otherwise, if the code contains a mix of languages, then
>   an extra directory level could be used to separate source code by
>   language, as in src/java/ and src/php for source code in the java and
>   php languages respectively.

All projects will eventually grow to carry some form of cross language
revision control. Many projects will include sql scripts/config
scripts/content (ie jsp/vml pages). I would put everything that has
possibility of being modified during build process under src//* where
type can be separation by media type (ie java/sql or funciton like
testcases/compat).

Furthermore even if a project requires no extra medias currently it may in
the future. As CVS is incapable of understanding move command I would thus
recomend that all projects start out with

sr// hierarchy even if they have only one type.  

>   
>   xdocs/
>   Documentation file in XML format.
>  
>   The Jakarta site uses Velocity/Anakia to transform dcumentation
>   files in XML into HTML. The generated HTML files automatically
>   inherit the Jakarta look-and-feel.
>   
>   YES
>   

I would place this under src/xdocs as many projects modify docs during
build process (via replacing constants-tokens-whatever).

>   
>   
>   
>   build/
>   Files required for building the sub-project.
>  
>   Building includes compiling source code, generating javadoc
>   documentation, the creation of jar files and the distribution files
>   in tar.gz or zip formats.
>   
>   YES
>   

As the eventual goal of many tool projects is not to be included in CVS
(hopefully CJAN will fix this) I don't like this mixing of concerns (ie
tools with other project specific build facilities). Thus I would instead
recomend an alternate hierarchy for tools. ie

tools/bin/* (contains generic scripts + binaries - like antRun)
tools/lib/* (contains generic jars - like stylebook/anakia/ant)

I would also place the wrapper build scripts along with main build project
file into base directory. That way newbies can understand build process
simply without any understanding of build hierarchy. It also mirrors the
way other tools and projects work thus minimizing warm up time.

Another point to make is that the build/ directory is used by a few
projects for temporary/intermediate files 

>   
>   dist/ 
>  
>   Generated jar files and other sub-project binaries.
>  
>   This directory contains jar files for the
>   sub-project. Distribution binaries in .tar.gz and .zip formats should
>   also be placed in this directory.
>   
>   NO
>   

I would instead break this into three directories.

distributions/
dist/
src-dist/

dist contains an image of binary dist, src-dist of source distribution and
distributions contain the .tar.gz/.zip/.rpm files. The reason is that many
projects create an intermediate version that is runnable in the directory
via something like

prompt> cd dist/bin
prompt> run.[sh|bat]

But need different directories when building distributions for releases.

>   
>   dist/classes/
>   Class files generated from the source code contained in the src/
>   directory.
>   Other binary files such as icons and images should also be placed
>   under dist/classes/.

I would remove the last line as it is no longer necessary with ant (yay for
zipfilesets). Besides what does a set of classes have to do with a
distribution (they are not normally contained loose in a dist file).

>   
>   contribs/
>   Contributions not officially part of the sub-project.
>   Some projects use other names such as whiteboard/ or proposals/.

Contrib and whiteboard/proposals are different things. whiteboard/proposals
is used for proposing forks/revolutions and working on them in the interim
until accepted or -1'ed. contrib is for code that the devs don't want to
take responsibility for ;)

>  
>  
>  Should we also include directives for ANT build scripts, common
>  target names, etc. in this document?

+1 Yep
Cheers,

Pete

*-*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."   |
|  - John Kenneth Galbraith   |
*-*


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Re: Voting processes (was: PMC meeting agenda)

[Peter Donald]

At 07:00  12/3/01 -0500, Sam Ruby wrote:
>The ASF board is completely re-elected on an annual basis.  Members
>nominate/Members vote.  This is probably the system I most lean towards,

me too ;)

>but it does have one problem: while it may elect the "wisest" people, it
>does not guarantee that the people elected have any familiarity with the
>issues surrounding your particular code base.

"wisest" == popular ??? ;)

>Scott Boag of Xalan fame advocates another scheme: one subproject, one
>vote.  While it certainly addresses the above issue, it raises a number of
>questions.  Is servletapi a separate subproject?  How about servletapi-4?
>How many projects is taglibs?  When avalon split, it didn't acquire any
>more code or new committers: does it suddenly deserve more representation?

Interesting approach. Each project elects a "champion" for their cause. It
is nice until we look at the "bigger" projects - I guess a good example
being tomcat. Tomcat has a lot of dedicated developers a lot of whom have
strong ideas. In these cases it may be difficult to elect one-single
champion - not sure. Then there are other projects that barely make 3
committers and are less active. Should they receive equal representation?

>The current PMC process does feel a bit "closed", but it does mimic the
>current process by which one becomes a committer or a member.  Should
>committers be re-elected?  Should developers that are not committers be
>able to nominate and elect new committers?

I kinda like the idea but it would be difficult to implement. A while back
I remember visiting a site that allowed anybody to register. Registrants
could then vote for other members. The more votes a person had the more
karma they got and the more seriously their votes were taken. You could go
to summary page that listed who voted for each person and how strongly etc.
I think this would make the appointment largely self-managing.
Unfortunately it would require work to set up such a system ;)

Cheers,

Pete

*-*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."   |
|  - John Kenneth Galbraith   |
*-*


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Re: JCP Survey

[Peter Donald]

At 08:08  13/3/01 +0100, Alex Fernández wrote:
>My gosh! I can't believe it, the survey is in ASP!

I noticed that.

>Is it a joke?

not sure - it was posted on a major newsite (theserverside.com) but it is
supplied by a different provider than Sun. However the questions seemed
legit so ...

Cheers,

Pete

*-*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."   |
|  - John Kenneth Galbraith   |
*-*


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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Hans Bergsten]

Sam Ruby wrote:
> 
> Can we make this month's meeting on Friday? (Sorry Peter).  Via IRC as Jon
> has suggested...

This coming Friday, March 16? Works for me. Same for next Friday, March 23,
but the one after that may be tough.

The only problem I see with this Friday is that we have not really discussed
most of the agenda items on this list yet. I suggest that Sam initiates a
thread for each item that need to be discussed.

Also, I assume the IRC connection info will be sent to all participants.

Hans
-- 
Hans Bergsten   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gefion Software http://www.gefionsoftware.com
Author of JavaServer Pages (O'Reilly), http://TheJSPBook.com

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Re: Patch for site docs

[Santiago Gala]

Jon Stevens wrote:

 > on 3/13/01 9:55 AM, "Santiago Gala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 >
 >
 >> I have prepared a patch for site docs, explaining an issue we found
 >> when trying to use authenticated cvs with Windows.
 >>
 >> I tried to commit, but I don't have enough Karma. I don't know if
 >> I'm suppossed to have karma on the site docs, so here I send
 >> the patch.
 >>
 >> Feel free to throw it away :)
 >
 >
 > The right place to have sent the patch is to the general@jakarta list as
 > documented here:
 >
 > 
 > "People who have accounts on apache.org can check in their changes to the
 > jakarta-site2 module directly. If you get an error such as "Access 
denied:
 > Insufficient Karma", then please send email to the
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list and we will grant you the
 > appropriate access. If you do not have an account, then please feel 
free to
 > send patches to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list."
 >

Sorry about this one. But still the answer is not clear to me. Am I 
supposed to
commit myself or will somebody else consider the patch?

 >
 > Also, you need to send a patch against the .xml file which is used to 
build
 > the .html files. See the above URL for more information on working 
with the
 > Jakarta Site2 module.
 >

The patch is BOTH to the .html file AND to the .xml file, as I think in 
this way the
changes will be visible without building in apache.org

The patch to .html is after I built locally.

 > thanks,
 >
 > -jon




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Tomcat problem...

[Geraldo Pereira de Souza]

People,

I´m installing Tomcat in an windows NT server with jdk1.2.1.
When a tried to run the Tomcat i got the error, see the log:

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>build

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>REM convience bat file to build with

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>if not "C:\JDK1.2.2" == "" goto gotJavaHome

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set _ANTHOME=C:\Tomcat\jakarta-ant-1.3

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>if "C:\Tomcat\jakarta-ant-1.3" == "" set
ANT_HOME=..\jakarta-
ant

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set _SERVLETAPIHOME=

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>if "" == "" set SERVLETAPI_HOME=..\jakarta-servletapi

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>if
";.;C:\JDK1.2.2\JRE\LIB\RT.JAR;C:\Tomcat\jaxp.jar;C:\Tomca
t\jaxp-1.1\jaxp-1.1\crimson.jar;C:\Tomcat\jaxp-1.1\xalan.jar;C:\JDK1.2.2\lib\too

ls.jar;C:\Tomcat\jakarta-servletapi-4\lib\servelet.jar" == "" goto
noclasspath

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>rem else

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set
_CLASSPATH=;.;C:\JDK1.2.2\JRE\LIB\RT.JAR;C:\Tomcat\jaxp.j
ar;C:\Tomcat\jaxp-1.1\jaxp-1.1\crimson.jar;C:\Tomcat\jaxp-1.1\xalan.jar;C:\JDK1.

2.2\lib\tools.jar;C:\Tomcat\jakarta-servletapi-4\lib\servelet.jar

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set
CLASSPATH=;.;C:\JDK1.2.2\JRE\LIB\RT.JAR;C:\Tomcat\jaxp.ja
r;C:\Tomcat\jaxp-1.1\jaxp-1.1\crimson.jar;C:\Tomcat\jaxp-1.1\xalan.jar;C:\JDK1.2

.2\lib\tools.jar;C:\Tomcat\jakarta-servletapi-4\lib\servelet.jar;C:\Tomcat\jakar

ta-ant-1.3\lib\ant.jar;..\jakarta-servletapi\lib\servlet.jar;..\jakarta-tools\mo

o.jar;C:\JDK1.2.2\lib\tools.jar

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>goto next

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>java  org.apache.tools.ant.Main
Buildfile: build.xml
A nonfatal internal JIT (3.10.107(x)) error 'Relocation error: NULL
relocation t
arget' has occurred in :
  'org/apache/crimson/parser/Parser2.maybeComment (Z)Z': Interpreting
method.
  Please report this error in detail to
http://java.sun.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cg
i


prepare:

BUILD FAILED

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2\build.xml:33: C:\Tomcat\jakarta-ant\bin not found.

Total time: 2 seconds

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>rem clean up classpath after

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set
CLASSPATH=;.;C:\JDK1.2.2\JRE\LIB\RT.JAR;C:\Tomcat\jaxp.ja
r;C:\Tomcat\jaxp-1.1\jaxp-1.1\crimson.jar;C:\Tomcat\jaxp-1.1\xalan.jar;C:\JDK1.2

.2\lib\tools.jar;C:\Tomcat\jakarta-servletapi-4\lib\servelet.jar

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set _CLASSPATH=

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set SERVLETAPI_HOME=

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set _SERVLETAPIHOME=

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set ANT_HOME=C:\Tomcat\jakarta-ant-1.3

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>set _ANTHOME=

C:\TOMCAT\JAKART~2>

Obs: I dont´t have the archive  \jakarta-tools\moo.jar; Is it necessary?
In the instalattion of Tomcat 3.2, i didn´t see anything about it.


Could you please help me?

Thanks in advance,

Geraldo - Brazil


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Enhancement /Question to JMeter SampleData

[stefan . hamelmann]

Hi

The xml file attached to this mail is intended to used as a TestSmple by JMeter 1.5
The File includes several argument pairs to be tested, but by default, JMeter only 
uses the first one and ignores the rest.

My intention is to test one URL with several combination of data.

Thanks for your help.

Greetings, Stefan


 <> 

 StefanTest.xml

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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Ceki Gülcü]

At 12:23 13.03.2001 -0500, Sam Ruby wrote:
>Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>>
>> Friday is fine for me (still 20:00 GMT?)
>
>Yup.
>
>> please send the contact details privately.

Unfortunately, I might not make it this Friday. I will confirm later.

On another register, I have added a very preliminary version of a jakarta-wide 
directory structure as requested in item 3.6 of the PMC agenda. It is available at 
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/dirlayout.html. Cheers, Ceki 



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Re: JCP Survey

[Ceki Gülcü]

At 05:37 14.03.2001 +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
>Hi,
>
>For those of you interested in future of java I would reccomend that you
>visit a survey at 
>
>http://208.29.156.209/surveys_0/sun200/welcome.htm

Have you noticed the asp suffix at the end of the survey page URLs? Ceki



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Re: JCP Survey

[Alex Fernández]

My gosh! I can't believe it, the survey is in ASP!

Is it a joke?

And the percentage shown at the bottom *is* a joke!

Un saludo,

Alex.

Peter Donald wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> For those of you interested in future of java I would reccomend that you
> visit a survey at
> 
> http://208.29.156.209/surveys_0/sun200/welcome.htm
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete
> 
> *-*
> | "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
> | and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
> | everyone gets busy on the proof."   |
> |  - John Kenneth Galbraith   |
> *-*
> 
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JCP Survey

[Peter Donald]

Hi,

For those of you interested in future of java I would reccomend that you
visit a survey at 

http://208.29.156.209/surveys_0/sun200/welcome.htm


Cheers,

Pete

*-*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."   |
|  - John Kenneth Galbraith   |
*-*


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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Sam Ruby]

Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>
> Friday is fine for me (still 20:00 GMT?)

Yup.

> please send the contact details privately.

Jon, can you do the honors? At a minimum, I would like the logs posted
publically after the meeting, but would really prefer that the meeting be
open to all.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: tomcat cvs

[Sam Ruby]

Henri Gomez wrote:
>
> I still can't access jakarta-tomcat cvs in anonymous .
> But it works well for jakarta-ecs !

I can:

http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/2001-03-13/cvs_jakarta-tomcat.html

- Sam Ruby


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tomcat cvs

[GOMEZ Henri]

I still can't access jakarta-tomcat cvs in anonymous .
But it works well for jakarta-ecs !

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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Sam Ruby wrote:

> Can we make this month's meeting on Friday? (Sorry Peter).  Via IRC as Jon
> has suggested...
> 

Friday is fine for me (still 20:00 GMT?) -- please send the contact
details privately.

> 
> - Sam Ruby
>

Craig McClanahan



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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Sam Ruby]

Ted Husted wrote:
>
> Sam Ruby wrote:
> >  3.2 Sam: formalization of the subproject hierarcy.
>
> When we say hierarchy, do we mean something nested, or just
> a flat grouping?

I would be satisifed with simple assignments.

> >  3.3  Unassigned: reformat the rules for revolutionaries document
> >   from an email to a bylaw
>
> I can work on this, but am I suppose to post it at the meeting or
> beforehand if possible?

Since this item is unassigned, thanks for volunteering!  (I'm actually
surprised it wasn't assigned to James, but my minutes indicate otherwise,
and he hasn't stepped forward).

Beforehand is preferable, but given the proximity to the next meeting,
perhaps you might want to target the meeting after that.  Your call.

- Sam Ruby


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RE: PMC meeting agenda

[Ignacio J. Ortega]

Sorry if this is answered in any of the messages sended on the topic...

Will be the PMC Meeting on IRC a open meeting?

I will be glad to assist if it's open and on IRC.

TIA

Saludos ,
Ignacio J. Ortega


> -Mensaje original-
> De: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Enviado el: martes 13 de marzo de 2001 11:15
> Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Asunto: Re: PMC meeting agenda
> 
> 
> Can we make this month's meeting on Friday? (Sorry Peter).  
> Via IRC as Jon
> has suggested...
> 
> Overall, it looks like Wednesday is the best day.  So 
> presumably, the week
> before the board meeting (3rd Wednesday) would be the ideal 
> week EXCEPT -
> as I indicated, I have ONE other recurring meeting with people from
> Austrialia to Europe, guess what time/day that is?  ;-)
> 
> Unfortunatley, this Wednesday (any time) is out for me.
> 
> - Sam Ruby
> 
> 
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> 
> 

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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Ted Husted]

Sam Ruby wrote:
> That's why the agenda should be posted early, and as much discussion as
> possible take place prior to the agenda.  

OK.

Sam Ruby wrote:
>3.2 Sam: formalization of the subproject hierarcy.

When we say hierarchy, do we mean something nested, or just a flat
grouping?

>3.3 Unassigned: reformat the rules for revolutionaries document from
>  an email to a bylaw

I can work on this, but am I suppose to post it at the meeting or
beforehand if possible?

> 5. Subproject status
>  Note: in the long term, the way I would like to address item 3.2 above
>  is to assign PMC representatives to monitor each subproject, and would
>  like to give each an opportunity to discuss issues, status, and
>  progress here.  What I am looking for is major events like the recent
>  Ant 1.3 release, upcoming Velocity release and outlook for releases
>  like Tomcat 4.1.  Without formal assignments, I'm simply expecting
>  everybody to bring what they know.

+1

Given the projects in my own incubator, I'd be up for JAMES, Jetspeed,
RegEx, Slide, and/or Taglibs, in addition to Struts. I'm not saying that
I'll become an active committer to all these, but these are all products
that I will need to use, and could track.

-Ted.

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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Peter Donald]

At 06:36  13/3/01 -0500, Ted Husted wrote:
>It's been my experience that a recurring deadline for a status report
>can serve the same purpose of a synchronous meeting, without the 
>constraint of real-time scheduling.

Thats only the case if the purpose of the meeting is something that can be
solved with a status report. For other issues it is useful to have a
synchronous meeting. The much higher bandwidth allows decisions to be made
faster and ideas communicated more effectively (at least if everyone comes
with at least a basic overview of agenda items).

Cheers,

Pete

*-*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."   |
|  - John Kenneth Galbraith   |
*-*


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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Sam Ruby]

Ted Husted wrote:
>
> Personally, I'm concerned about how much actual work we can
> accomplish in synchronous time. Even with verbal meetings,
> going over the ASF minutes, agenda items were often postponed
> time and again for lack of synchronous time. With the
> granularity being a month, this can be a significant delay.

That's why the agenda should be posted early, and as much discussion as
possible take place prior to the agenda.  If we "rat-hole", I will step in
and defer the discussion.

> If we don't need IRC or verbal meetings to build complex
> software products, why do we need it for the items on this
> agenda?

I'd like to give it a try.  If it doesn't help, we can discontinue.  OK?

> It's been my experience that a recurring deadline for a status
> report can serve the same purpose of a synchronous meeting,
> without the constraint of real-time scheduling.

That's why I want to crystalize this into a an official report.  Without
it, action items tend to linger...

- Sam Ruby


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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Ted Husted]

Sam Ruby wrote:
> Can we make this month's meeting on Friday? (Sorry Peter). 

That would be fine.

> What I had intended by this item was a recording secretary for the purposes
> of that meeting.  If we use IRC, then this will not be required.

Personally, I'm concerned about how much actual work we can accomplish
in synchronous time. Even with verbal meetings, going over the ASF
minutes, agenda items were often postponed time and again for lack of
synchronous time. With the granularity being a month, this can be a
significant delay.

If we don't need IRC or verbal meetings to build complex software
products, why do we need it for the items on this agenda?

It's been my experience that a recurring deadline for a status report
can serve the same purpose of a synchronous meeting, without the 
constraint of real-time scheduling.

-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
-- Tel 716 737-3463.
-- http://www.husted.com/about/struts/

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Re: status?

[Ted Husted]

Ceki Gülcü wrote:
>Does this mean that equals rights for women should be abolished because there are 
>just too few men to promote it?

In a volunteer meritocracy, equal rights would not exist if someone did
not implement it. Under the Apache model, they would announce they are
working on some equal rights code, and people might respond to that with
voting symbols. But that would not be a vote. (We really only vote on
actual code or documentation, not hypotheticals.) When someone committed
an equal rights patch to the CVS, it would be a product change subject
to lazy consensus. If another committer tossed a (-1) at that, then we
would have a consensus vote on whether equal rights stay or go. 

Once implemented, abolishing equal rights would be another product
change. If someone removed it, someone else would need to post a (-1)
before we'd have another consensus vote. 

The reason we work together is peer review of our work. Some committers
like the shades of meaning that (-0) and (+0) represent. If someone sees
a bunch of (-0)'s, they might take the hint and refactor their approach.
It helps to keep us all on the same page. We could change the
guidelines, but I doubt that would change how people cast their votes.
The muddy waters would then ~continue~ to be the difference between all
these (-0) and (+0) votes.

> It seems to me that we (Apache) have a tradition of mixing a call for volunteers 
>with a decision making (voting) process. A call for volunteers for a release can be 
>made with a [POLL] and a decision to make a release can be made with a [VOTE]. 

People sometimes take polls before making a major decision that will
significantly affect everyone. For example, whether to support 1.1 or
move onto 1.2. In the end, a decision regarding a product change,
showstopper, release plan issue, or public release is made by tallying
the (+1)s and the (-1)s. Anything (0) just doesn't count.

If there are tasks which a committer thinks is worthwhile, but cannot
work on personally in the immediate future, a good approach is to start
a TODO list as part of the documentation package. This tells people we
have already thought of that, and just need people to work on it. This
can also be a good way to manage the final TODOs in a Release Plan.

-Ted.

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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Sam Ruby]

Ted Husted wrote:
>
> > 1. Appointment of a Recording Secretary
>
> I nominate myself (unless someone else is interested).

What I had intended by this item was a recording secretary for the purposes
of that meeting.  If we use IRC, then this will not be required.

> We should also try and give a monthly "high concept" status report
> oneach project, just a sentence or two.

I'm planing to create a "monthly chairman's report" based on the input from
each subproject.  I'd like to organize the PMC meeting dates in such a way
that the information is available to the ASF board at a time convenient to
them.  The board meets on the third Wednesday of every month.

> Eventually, we might want to try and work toward something like
> Apache Week's "Under Development" section that we could post each
> month to the Announcement list.

Largely, Jon has been managing the overall Jakarta site, and I'm quite sure
that he would eagerly welcome anybody who would like to share the burden.
Two constraints - content should be on jakarta.apache.org, and the look and
feel should be consistent with other Jakarta pages.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: PMC meeting agenda

[Sam Ruby]

Can we make this month's meeting on Friday? (Sorry Peter).  Via IRC as Jon
has suggested...

Overall, it looks like Wednesday is the best day.  So presumably, the week
before the board meeting (3rd Wednesday) would be the ideal week EXCEPT -
as I indicated, I have ONE other recurring meeting with people from
Austrialia to Europe, guess what time/day that is?  ;-)

Unfortunatley, this Wednesday (any time) is out for me.

- Sam Ruby


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