Re: Jakarta PMC report
Yes! In fact POI uses this to generate Record and Type classes from XML descriptors. You can't imagine how much typing this saves! Danny Angus wrote: Come on. Does anyone really *like* XSL? Actually after a lot of scepticism I now like XSLT. But like everything else it stinks if its the wrong tool for the job. I've been using it to generate java source code from xml descriptions of data, it does that quite well IMO. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
on 2002/12/18 9:19 PM, Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the point was that we also need people to review the commits and people to vote on the release. Thanks for volunteering. I don't know what final would mean - if bugs are found that affect projects using regexp ( like tomcat which AFAIK has a dependency ) - then I hope it'll still be possible to fix them. Read what I wrote. It means it will be the last release of the jakarta-regexp project. Given that you haven't fixed any of the bugs or done any of the work on this project, what the hell are you talking about? My opinion about stable projects like regexp: we should change the I just stopped reading after you said my opinion. BTW - thanks for taking the time to fix the bugs in regexp, and congratulations to the jakarta-regexp team for completing the project ! :-) Thanks for being a complete idiot Costin. -jon -- StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco http://studioz.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Various answers, in no particular order: This is a chairman's report. Typically, these appear after a time delay (once approved in a subsequent meeting) at http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html . I raised the issue about Tapestry in yesterday's board meeting. Jim Jagielski agreed to contact Andy ASAP. First thing after the holidays would be a good time to pursue XDoclet. It's time to unpause. ;-) Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] and express your desires as to where this codebase would land within the ASF. My opinion is that subprojects that lack community due to stability should become community property. Perhaps commit messages should be directed to general@. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
On 18/12/02 19:00 Doug Bateman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seeing clarification: Is Sam's post here the official report from the PMC, or a summary of a PMC report posted elsewhere? Looking at the news page, I see a summary for status of each individual project in Jakarta, but no summary of the status and growth of Jakarta as a whole. For example, PMC interest in slowing/stopping the imperialistic expansion isn't directly mentioned on the page, and yet is of interest to the community as a whole (users and developers). Those should be integrated (IMO) in Rob's Newsletters... Now, if only the different projects fed him some content pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta PMC report
This is a chairman's report. Typically, these appear after a time delay (once approved in a subsequent meeting) at http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html . thats what I thought, but I don't see any recent jakarta ones. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Danny Angus wrote: This is a chairman's report. Typically, these appear after a time delay (once approved in a subsequent meeting) at http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html . thats what I thought, but I don't see any recent jakarta ones. Bad, Jakarta chairman, bad. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: BTW - thanks for taking the time to fix the bugs in regexp, and congratulations to the jakarta-regexp team for completing the project ! :-) Thanks for being a complete idiot Costin. I meant it very seriously - I think every project should have a goal, and should eventually reach the goal in a finite amount of time. The fact that jakarta-regexp just works and has met its goals is a very positive thing. And the team that worked on it deserve ( sincere ) congratulations ( including you, Jon ). Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
on 2002/12/19 8:04 AM, Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I meant it very seriously - I think every project should have a goal, and should eventually reach the goal in a finite amount of time. The fact that jakarta-regexp just works and has met its goals is a very positive thing. And the team that worked on it deserve ( sincere ) congratulations ( including you, Jon ). Costin Yup, just like Tomcat 3...which should have reached its goal years ago. -jon -- StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco http://studioz.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2002/12/19 8:04 AM, Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I meant it very seriously - I think every project should have a goal, and should eventually reach the goal in a finite amount of time. The fact that jakarta-regexp just works and has met its goals is a very positive thing. And the team that worked on it deserve ( sincere ) congratulations ( including you, Jon ). Costin Yup, just like Tomcat 3...which should have reached its goal years ago. Yes. I personally think tomcat3.3 has reached its goals ( performance, modularity, simplicity, compliance, etc ). The time it takes to reach the project goals depends on many factors. Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta PMC report
Where are the November board minutes now that they have been approved at yesterday's board meeting? Tim O'Brien W 847-574-2143 M 847-863-7045 -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 5:45 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Jakarta PMC report Various answers, in no particular order: This is a chairman's report. Typically, these appear after a time delay (once approved in a subsequent meeting) at http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html . I raised the issue about Tapestry in yesterday's board meeting. Jim Jagielski agreed to contact Andy ASAP. First thing after the holidays would be a good time to pursue XDoclet. It's time to unpause. ;-) Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] and express your desires as to where this codebase would land within the ASF. My opinion is that subprojects that lack community due to stability should become community property. Perhaps commit messages should be directed to general@. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Yup, just like Tomcat 3...which should have reached its goal years ago. -jon The Andy theorem on general Apache Jakarta discussions continues to prove true (they all devolve into a rehash of the bad ol days of Tomcat 3.3/4)... Please don't take the bait guys... Pretty please? -Andy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
on 2002/12/19 10:25 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Andy theorem on general Apache Jakarta discussions continues to prove true (they all devolve into a rehash of the bad ol days of Tomcat 3.3/4)... Please don't take the bait guys... Pretty please? -Andy Sorry, it is a very sore point. Many long hours went into banging my head against The Wall (Costin) and even to this day, he and I can't agree on anything. The irony of it all is that Costin ended up dropping T3 and is now working on T4/T5. If only he had listened to us back then, I wouldn't have wasted so much time. The point being that we seem to continue to do the same circle. We get people like Nicola who are similar to Costin in The Wall mindset and the same exact discussions go round and round just on different topics (ie: Maven vs. Centipede vs. Forrest vs. vs. vs. vs.). Personal growth on my part would assume that I would find a way to arrange things so that they see the light without making them feel stupid and giving them a way to win. However, with people who have The Wall mentality, I have not been able to figure out the right approach as of yet. -jon -- StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment 314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco http://studioz.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
The point being that we seem to continue to do the same circle. We get people like Nicola who are similar to Costin in The Wall mindset and the same exact discussions go round and round just on different topics (ie: Maven vs. Centipede vs. Forrest vs. vs. vs. vs.). Okay. I'll bite I love a good stupid moronic discussion that serves no useful purpose other than ingraciate your ego Jon :-) Personal growth on my part would assume that I would find a way to arrange things so that they see the light without making them feel stupid and giving them a way to win. However, with people who have The Wall mentality, I have not been able to figure out the right approach as of yet. Yes Jon. Point well taken. Nicola Ken needs to learn to make such unifying statements and Bring people together the way you do. Just for his education I'll post a few here: In this post Jon expresses his acceptance for other technology and how he values community and wishes to work closely together: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102029828404481w=2 I can't stand XSL... It this post Jon expresses his preference to break down the wall: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102038789013943w=2 I listen to the following: Code. Patches. Real suggestions for improvement. MERGE It is your itch. Not mine. In this post ken expresses his disgust with Maven and Centipede living as one project with no walls: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102028908729985w=2 [Long proposal where Ken +1s combining Centipede and Maven and doesn't care where they live] And for the record I expressed my preference to have 2 seperate projects here: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=102026406806371w=2 Yeah so why can't these work together? I still just don't get it. Gee we don't like that lets do our own thing or integrate with anything but this or that. It just baffles the crap out of me. If I had the choice. I'd use NEITHER. I choose Centaven WITH GUMP. -Andy the pebble. So why don't you drive a combined Centipede/Maven as maybe a top level Apache project? It seems like a great way for you to break down this wall that disturbs you so. I'd certainly vote for such a proposal. I'll betcha Nicola Ken would... So Jon...did this wall REALLY develop from Nicola Ken or both You and the Maven developers who didn't want to work inclusively? You make the decision. Did Stefano drink all your beer or something? Why'd you wake up on this today eh? -Andy the confused. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Come on. Does anyone really *like* XSL? I do. http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/stylesheet/xref.xsl?rev=1.21content-type=text/plain - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Not that this discussion has any useful point.. . But I adore the purpose and concepts behind XSLT, but I LOATHE the syntax. However, now that I know it, its not so bad. -Andy Sam Ruby wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Come on. Does anyone really *like* XSL? I do. http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/stylesheet/xref.xsl?rev=1.21content-type=text/plain - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
On Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 07:13 PM, Sam Ruby wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Come on. Does anyone really *like* XSL? I do. I actually like the declarative model I sometimes have trouble in that processing syntax is not orthogonal to the syntax of what you are generally trying to output (XML, usually). -- Geir Magnusson Jr 203-355-2219(w) Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Thursday, December 19, 2002, at 07:13 PM, Sam Ruby wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Come on. Does anyone really *like* XSL? I do. I actually like the declarative model I sometimes have trouble in that processing syntax is not orthogonal to the syntax of what you are generally trying to output (XML, usually). Agreed! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
on 2002/12/18 7:36 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Such codebases (for example, regexp) are heavily depended upon and so interwoven into the fabric of many Jakarta subprojects that it is hard to imagine removing then from the ASF despite the somewhat different community dynamic one sees thre. There isn't even a quorum to hold a proper release vote or people actively monitoring the bug reports and commits. This is a problem. Hey, I resemble that remark! The fact of the matter is that I have picked Regexp back up and have recently applied a bunch of bug fixes and closed a number of open issues (I spent about 1 hour on it). I was going to close all the bugs the other day, but Nagoya decided to go for a trip for a few hours while I was working on it and I got busy with Scarab again. As soon as my current major Scarab deadline is over (Dec 20th), I plan to spend another couple hours and make one final release of Regexp. At which point, I'm going to call the project 'final' and Jakarta can figure out what they want to do with it from there. Previous ideas included just moving it to be distributed under the ORO project which I think is a good idea and will remove some confusion. I will probably be willing to help with that. I think that there are far larger problems for the PMC to focus on (which I still have not seen any response for) such as why all the file downloads for OJB are still on SF.net. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta PMC report
XDoclet (xdoclet.sf.net) also has some plans for moving to apache. I kept an eye on Tapestry's transition process. I'm not sure when it's the right time to officially propose it. So what are the plans for Jakarta? When is this reorganization phase completed? When is it the right time for XDoclet to put the proposal forward? Ara. -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Jakarta PMC report The status report for Jakarta project is available at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html and http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/index.html. These summaries are community developed, monitored, and maintained. Feedback on their contents should be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I tried unsuccessfully to summarize the summaries without looking like I was trying to prove a point about it not being a good idea. Of course, this begs the question about what happens when Jakarta is split up and all this data feeds directly into the board, but I digress. Overall, the imperialistic expansion phase of Jakarta has been put on pause. No new code bases have been accepted. Two colonies, Ant and Avalon, have split off successfully. The only issue in this area is Tapestry which unfortunately has been left in limbo in the process, neither accepted by Jakarta nor by the Incubator. The biggest unresolved issues in Jakarta deal with codebases on either end of the maturity spectrum. There are code bases which seen to be perennially in alpha, and therefore feel the right to change interfaces on a whim and without regard to the community impact of such changes. Unfortunately, the existence of a sandbox seems to have institutionalized this policy. Unquestionably, code bases in alpha should be allowed to experiment, but the establishment of a playground where this takes place indefinitely is not in the best interest of the ASF. On the other end of the spectrum is codebases which have matured to the point where there aren't enough itches to scratch to maintain a development community. Such codebases (for example, regexp) are heavily depended upon and so interwoven into the fabric of many Jakarta subprojects that it is hard to imagine removing then from the ASF despite the somewhat different community dynamic one sees thre. There isn't even a quorum to hold a proper release vote or people actively monitoring the bug reports and commits. This is a problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Seeing clarification: Is Sam's post here the official report from the PMC, or a summary of a PMC report posted elsewhere? Looking at the news page, I see a summary for status of each individual project in Jakarta, but no summary of the status and growth of Jakarta as a whole. For example, PMC interest in slowing/stopping the imperialistic expansion isn't directly mentioned on the page, and yet is of interest to the community as a whole (users and developers). Doug On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Sam Ruby wrote: The status report for Jakarta project is available at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html and http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/index.html. These summaries are community developed, monitored, and maintained. Feedback on their contents should be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I tried unsuccessfully to summarize the summaries without looking like I was trying to prove a point about it not being a good idea. Of course, this begs the question about what happens when Jakarta is split up and all this data feeds directly into the board, but I digress. Overall, the imperialistic expansion phase of Jakarta has been put on pause. No new code bases have been accepted. Two colonies, Ant and Avalon, have split off successfully. The only issue in this area is Tapestry which unfortunately has been left in limbo in the process, neither accepted by Jakarta nor by the Incubator. The biggest unresolved issues in Jakarta deal with codebases on either end of the maturity spectrum. There are code bases which seen to be perennially in alpha, and therefore feel the right to change interfaces on a whim and without regard to the community impact of such changes. Unfortunately, the existence of a sandbox seems to have institutionalized this policy. Unquestionably, code bases in alpha should be allowed to experiment, but the establishment of a playground where this takes place indefinitely is not in the best interest of the ASF. On the other end of the spectrum is codebases which have matured to the point where there aren't enough itches to scratch to maintain a development community. Such codebases (for example, regexp) are heavily depended upon and so interwoven into the fabric of many Jakarta subprojects that it is hard to imagine removing then from the ASF despite the somewhat different community dynamic one sees thre. There isn't even a quorum to hold a proper release vote or people actively monitoring the bug reports and commits. This is a problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Life is the jailer, death the angel sent to draw the unwilling bolts and set us free. James Lowell (1819-1891) American Poet, Critic and Editor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta PMC report
but no summary of the status and growth of Jakarta as a whole. Yeah, it might be nice to have an occasional State of the Nation address. I'm not really sure what one of those is, but I decided I'd better not say Queen's speech. d. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Sure. Make sure you meet the criteria and write a proposal. You just need some sponsoring folks. I think Erik Hatcher is a big XDoclet fan. It would be cool to see XDoclet proposed before Tapestry (I'm not volunteering for that, just an offhand remark). -Andy Ara Abrahamian wrote: XDoclet (xdoclet.sf.net) also has some plans for moving to apache. I kept an eye on Tapestry's transition process. I'm not sure when it's the right time to officially propose it. So what are the plans for Jakarta? When is this reorganization phase completed? When is it the right time for XDoclet to put the proposal forward? Ara. -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Jakarta PMC report The status report for Jakarta project is available at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html and http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/index.html. These summaries are community developed, monitored, and maintained. Feedback on their contents should be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I tried unsuccessfully to summarize the summaries without looking like I was trying to prove a point about it not being a good idea. Of course, this begs the question about what happens when Jakarta is split up and all this data feeds directly into the board, but I digress. Overall, the imperialistic expansion phase of Jakarta has been put on pause. No new code bases have been accepted. Two colonies, Ant and Avalon, have split off successfully. The only issue in this area is Tapestry which unfortunately has been left in limbo in the process, neither accepted by Jakarta nor by the Incubator. The biggest unresolved issues in Jakarta deal with codebases on either end of the maturity spectrum. There are code bases which seen to be perennially in alpha, and therefore feel the right to change interfaces on a whim and without regard to the community impact of such changes. Unfortunately, the existence of a sandbox seems to have institutionalized this policy. Unquestionably, code bases in alpha should be allowed to experiment, but the establishment of a playground where this takes place indefinitely is not in the best interest of the ASF. On the other end of the spectrum is codebases which have matured to the point where there aren't enough itches to scratch to maintain a development community. Such codebases (for example, regexp) are heavily depended upon and so interwoven into the fabric of many Jakarta subprojects that it is hard to imagine removing then from the ASF despite the somewhat different community dynamic one sees thre. There isn't even a quorum to hold a proper release vote or people actively monitoring the bug reports and commits. This is a problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta PMC report
Whenever you feel the time is right, you have my +1 :-) It would be great if it would be added in jakarta-commons. Costin Ara Abrahamian wrote: XDoclet (xdoclet.sf.net) also has some plans for moving to apache. I kept an eye on Tapestry's transition process. I'm not sure when it's the right time to officially propose it. So what are the plans for Jakarta? When is this reorganization phase completed? When is it the right time for XDoclet to put the proposal forward? Ara. -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Jakarta PMC report The status report for Jakarta project is available at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html and http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/index.html. These summaries are community developed, monitored, and maintained. Feedback on their contents should be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I tried unsuccessfully to summarize the summaries without looking like I was trying to prove a point about it not being a good idea. Of course, this begs the question about what happens when Jakarta is split up and all this data feeds directly into the board, but I digress. Overall, the imperialistic expansion phase of Jakarta has been put on pause. No new code bases have been accepted. Two colonies, Ant and Avalon, have split off successfully. The only issue in this area is Tapestry which unfortunately has been left in limbo in the process, neither accepted by Jakarta nor by the Incubator. The biggest unresolved issues in Jakarta deal with codebases on either end of the maturity spectrum. There are code bases which seen to be perennially in alpha, and therefore feel the right to change interfaces on a whim and without regard to the community impact of such changes. Unfortunately, the existence of a sandbox seems to have institutionalized this policy. Unquestionably, code bases in alpha should be allowed to experiment, but the establishment of a playground where this takes place indefinitely is not in the best interest of the ASF. On the other end of the spectrum is codebases which have matured to the point where there aren't enough itches to scratch to maintain a development community. Such codebases (for example, regexp) are heavily depended upon and so interwoven into the fabric of many Jakarta subprojects that it is hard to imagine removing then from the ASF despite the somewhat different community dynamic one sees thre. There isn't even a quorum to hold a proper release vote or people actively monitoring the bug reports and commits. This is a problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2002/12/18 7:36 AM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Such codebases (for example, regexp) are heavily depended upon and so interwoven into the fabric of many Jakarta subprojects that it is hard to imagine removing then from the ASF despite the somewhat different community dynamic one sees thre. There isn't even a quorum to hold a proper release vote or people actively monitoring the bug reports and commits. This is a problem. Hey, I resemble that remark! The fact of the matter is that I have picked Regexp back up and have recently applied a bunch of bug fixes and closed a number of open issues (I spent about 1 hour on it). I think the point was that we also need people to review the commits and people to vote on the release. 20th), I plan to spend another couple hours and make one final release of Regexp. At which point, I'm going to call the project 'final' and Jakarta can figure out what they want to do with it from there. Previous ideas included just moving it to be distributed under the ORO project which I think is a good idea and will remove some confusion. I will probably be willing to help with that. I don't know what final would mean - if bugs are found that affect projects using regexp ( like tomcat which AFAIK has a dependency ) - then I hope it'll still be possible to fix them. My opinion about stable projects like regexp: we should change the avail to include the whole jakarta ( similar with jakarta-commons ). This way any project that has a dependency on regexp will be able to protect itself and either fix the bugs that bite them or review changes that may break something. BTW - thanks for taking the time to fix the bugs in regexp, and congratulations to the jakarta-regexp team for completing the project ! :-) Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta PMC report
How does this balance with Sam's: Overall, the imperialistic expansion phase of Jakarta has been put on pause. No new code bases have been accepted. ? Hen On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Sure. Make sure you meet the criteria and write a proposal. You just need some sponsoring folks. I think Erik Hatcher is a big XDoclet fan. It would be cool to see XDoclet proposed before Tapestry (I'm not volunteering for that, just an offhand remark). -Andy Ara Abrahamian wrote: XDoclet (xdoclet.sf.net) also has some plans for moving to apache. I kept an eye on Tapestry's transition process. I'm not sure when it's the right time to officially propose it. So what are the plans for Jakarta? When is this reorganization phase completed? When is it the right time for XDoclet to put the proposal forward? Ara. -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Jakarta PMC report The status report for Jakarta project is available at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html and http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news/index.html. These summaries are community developed, monitored, and maintained. Feedback on their contents should be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. I tried unsuccessfully to summarize the summaries without looking like I was trying to prove a point about it not being a good idea. Of course, this begs the question about what happens when Jakarta is split up and all this data feeds directly into the board, but I digress. Overall, the imperialistic expansion phase of Jakarta has been put on pause. No new code bases have been accepted. Two colonies, Ant and Avalon, have split off successfully. The only issue in this area is Tapestry which unfortunately has been left in limbo in the process, neither accepted by Jakarta nor by the Incubator. The biggest unresolved issues in Jakarta deal with codebases on either end of the maturity spectrum. There are code bases which seen to be perennially in alpha, and therefore feel the right to change interfaces on a whim and without regard to the community impact of such changes. Unfortunately, the existence of a sandbox seems to have institutionalized this policy. Unquestionably, code bases in alpha should be allowed to experiment, but the establishment of a playground where this takes place indefinitely is not in the best interest of the ASF. On the other end of the spectrum is codebases which have matured to the point where there aren't enough itches to scratch to maintain a development community. Such codebases (for example, regexp) are heavily depended upon and so interwoven into the fabric of many Jakarta subprojects that it is hard to imagine removing then from the ASF despite the somewhat different community dynamic one sees thre. There isn't even a quorum to hold a proper release vote or people actively monitoring the bug reports and commits. This is a problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
