Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Sorry for the spam - Abner just filed their ICLA under "Abner Ferreira". Hopefully that's the last thing to check off! -David On Mon, Jul 25, 2022, at 17:17, David Li wrote: > Just to follow up quickly - the Dremio side is still trying to contact the > contributor to re-file the ICLA (this time with the "notify Arrow PMC" > option). > > I was wondering, separately - if Dremio holds the rights to the code, is > their Software Grant sufficient, in case we can't track down the ICLA? > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, at 18:47, David Li wrote: >> Thanks Justin. I'll re-confirm with the Dremio side (unfortunately not >> everyone remembered to check the "notify Arrow PMC" box at initial filing >> which was my mistake). >> >> -David >
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Just to follow up quickly - the Dremio side is still trying to contact the contributor to re-file the ICLA (this time with the "notify Arrow PMC" option). I was wondering, separately - if Dremio holds the rights to the code, is their Software Grant sufficient, in case we can't track down the ICLA? On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, at 18:47, David Li wrote: > Thanks Justin. I'll re-confirm with the Dremio side (unfortunately not > everyone remembered to check the "notify Arrow PMC" box at initial filing > which was my mistake). > > -David
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Thanks Justin. I'll re-confirm with the Dremio side (unfortunately not everyone remembered to check the "notify Arrow PMC" box at initial filing which was my mistake). -David
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Hi, There is no icla filed under that name that I can see. Kind Regards, Justin On Tue, 19 July 2022, 7:06 am David Li, wrote: > Also to follow up on one other question from Justin: Abner's ICLA should > have been filed under "Abner Ferreira" as the public name, are they > findable under that name? > > -David > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, at 10:42, David Li wrote: > > The contributors are all (sub)contractors of Dremio, who were retained > to work on this project. I checked with the lead author (Kyle Porter) and > he confirmed all IP is with Dremio, who filed the software grant - is that > what we're looking to confirm? A CCLA was not filed with Apache, as we > followed a similar process to a prior grant from Dremio [1]. Unless you > mean the agreement between the contributors and Dremio? > > > > [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/w3btsx6l8gf0ognds8b6bng1ng4ccg00 > > > > -David > > > > On 2022/07/18 04:58:00 Daniel Widdis wrote: > > > Thanks for the clarity, David. > > > > > > Given the clear "commit trail" for individual committers and the ICLAs > I don't see a problem there. I think the only question that may need a > bit more clarity is the relationship of Dremio to the contributions. I > know my own employer has boilerplate legal claims on any open source work I > do using company equipment or during "working hours" but there is also a > process to allow/approve contributions. > > > > > > Can you elaborate on any corporate relationship to the contributions > and if there is a process for open source contributions, particularly if > the contributors used corporate computers or labor, and whether this is > addressed in the CCLA? > > > > > > On 7/17/22, 8:15 PM, "David Li" wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Sorry for some of the confusion here, I'll try to explain. > (Apologies if this does not get linked back up correctly to the thread - > Pony Mail does not let me login and the mailto: link generates a URL > which is too long). > > > > > > I did preemptively ask the contributors to add the Apache license > boilerplate before final submission, so apologies for the confusion there. > The original files as I recall either had the header or did not have any > header. > > > > > > There was a short discussion on the Arrow dev@ list at [1] where > we decided to go through the IP clearance process to make sure everything > was clear, since when the PR was first submitted, it had been developed for > a long time outside the community (with commits dating back to 2020, > although the PR was submitted in 2022). > > > > > > I believe Abner submitted an ICLA. I will re-confirm with the > authors (I can't appear to view this information myself on the Apache > side). > > > > > > [1]: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/xytqttpov1d3q9mhd6nrlz7xkl7q5zjp > > > > > > Hopefully this helps, > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > >
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Thanks, that email link satisfies my curiosity and any hint of concerns. On 7/18/22, 7:43 AM, "David Li" wrote: The contributors are all (sub)contractors of Dremio, who were retained to work on this project. I checked with the lead author (Kyle Porter) and he confirmed all IP is with Dremio, who filed the software grant - is that what we're looking to confirm? A CCLA was not filed with Apache, as we followed a similar process to a prior grant from Dremio [1]. Unless you mean the agreement between the contributors and Dremio? [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/w3btsx6l8gf0ognds8b6bng1ng4ccg00 -David On 2022/07/18 04:58:00 Daniel Widdis wrote: > Thanks for the clarity, David. > > Given the clear "commit trail" for individual committers and the ICLAs I don't see a problem there. I think the only question that may need a bit more clarity is the relationship of Dremio to the contributions. I know my own employer has boilerplate legal claims on any open source work I do using company equipment or during "working hours" but there is also a process to allow/approve contributions. > > Can you elaborate on any corporate relationship to the contributions and if there is a process for open source contributions, particularly if the contributors used corporate computers or labor, and whether this is addressed in the CCLA? > > On 7/17/22, 8:15 PM, "David Li" wrote: > > Hello, > > Sorry for some of the confusion here, I'll try to explain. (Apologies if this does not get linked back up correctly to the thread - Pony Mail does not let me login and the mailto: link generates a URL which is too long). > > I did preemptively ask the contributors to add the Apache license boilerplate before final submission, so apologies for the confusion there. The original files as I recall either had the header or did not have any header. > > There was a short discussion on the Arrow dev@ list at [1] where we decided to go through the IP clearance process to make sure everything was clear, since when the PR was first submitted, it had been developed for a long time outside the community (with commits dating back to 2020, although the PR was submitted in 2022). > > I believe Abner submitted an ICLA. I will re-confirm with the authors (I can't appear to view this information myself on the Apache side). > > [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/xytqttpov1d3q9mhd6nrlz7xkl7q5zjp > > Hopefully this helps, > David > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Also to follow up on one other question from Justin: Abner's ICLA should have been filed under "Abner Ferreira" as the public name, are they findable under that name? -David On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, at 10:42, David Li wrote: > The contributors are all (sub)contractors of Dremio, who were retained to > work on this project. I checked with the lead author (Kyle Porter) and he > confirmed all IP is with Dremio, who filed the software grant - is that what > we're looking to confirm? A CCLA was not filed with Apache, as we followed a > similar process to a prior grant from Dremio [1]. Unless you mean the > agreement between the contributors and Dremio? > > [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/w3btsx6l8gf0ognds8b6bng1ng4ccg00 > > -David > > On 2022/07/18 04:58:00 Daniel Widdis wrote: > > Thanks for the clarity, David. > > > > Given the clear "commit trail" for individual committers and the ICLAs I > > don't see a problem there. I think the only question that may need a bit > > more clarity is the relationship of Dremio to the contributions. I know my > > own employer has boilerplate legal claims on any open source work I do > > using company equipment or during "working hours" but there is also a > > process to allow/approve contributions. > > > > Can you elaborate on any corporate relationship to the contributions and if > > there is a process for open source contributions, particularly if the > > contributors used corporate computers or labor, and whether this is > > addressed in the CCLA? > > > > On 7/17/22, 8:15 PM, "David Li" wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Sorry for some of the confusion here, I'll try to explain. (Apologies > > if this does not get linked back up correctly to the thread - Pony Mail > > does not let me login and the mailto: link generates a URL which is too > > long). > > > > I did preemptively ask the contributors to add the Apache license > > boilerplate before final submission, so apologies for the confusion there. > > The original files as I recall either had the header or did not have any > > header. > > > > There was a short discussion on the Arrow dev@ list at [1] where we > > decided to go through the IP clearance process to make sure everything was > > clear, since when the PR was first submitted, it had been developed for a > > long time outside the community (with commits dating back to 2020, although > > the PR was submitted in 2022). > > > > I believe Abner submitted an ICLA. I will re-confirm with the authors > > (I can't appear to view this information myself on the Apache side). > > > > [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/xytqttpov1d3q9mhd6nrlz7xkl7q5zjp > > > > Hopefully this helps, > > David > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > >
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
The contributors are all (sub)contractors of Dremio, who were retained to work on this project. I checked with the lead author (Kyle Porter) and he confirmed all IP is with Dremio, who filed the software grant - is that what we're looking to confirm? A CCLA was not filed with Apache, as we followed a similar process to a prior grant from Dremio [1]. Unless you mean the agreement between the contributors and Dremio? [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/w3btsx6l8gf0ognds8b6bng1ng4ccg00 -David On 2022/07/18 04:58:00 Daniel Widdis wrote: > Thanks for the clarity, David. > > Given the clear "commit trail" for individual committers and the ICLAs I > don't see a problem there. I think the only question that may need a bit > more clarity is the relationship of Dremio to the contributions. I know my > own employer has boilerplate legal claims on any open source work I do using > company equipment or during "working hours" but there is also a process to > allow/approve contributions. > > Can you elaborate on any corporate relationship to the contributions and if > there is a process for open source contributions, particularly if the > contributors used corporate computers or labor, and whether this is addressed > in the CCLA? > > On 7/17/22, 8:15 PM, "David Li" wrote: > > Hello, > > Sorry for some of the confusion here, I'll try to explain. (Apologies if > this does not get linked back up correctly to the thread - Pony Mail does not > let me login and the mailto: link generates a URL which is too long). > > I did preemptively ask the contributors to add the Apache license > boilerplate before final submission, so apologies for the confusion there. > The original files as I recall either had the header or did not have any > header. > > There was a short discussion on the Arrow dev@ list at [1] where we > decided to go through the IP clearance process to make sure everything was > clear, since when the PR was first submitted, it had been developed for a > long time outside the community (with commits dating back to 2020, although > the PR was submitted in 2022). > > I believe Abner submitted an ICLA. I will re-confirm with the authors (I > can't appear to view this information myself on the Apache side). > > [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/xytqttpov1d3q9mhd6nrlz7xkl7q5zjp > > Hopefully this helps, > David > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Thanks for the clarity, David. Given the clear "commit trail" for individual committers and the ICLAs I don't see a problem there. I think the only question that may need a bit more clarity is the relationship of Dremio to the contributions. I know my own employer has boilerplate legal claims on any open source work I do using company equipment or during "working hours" but there is also a process to allow/approve contributions. Can you elaborate on any corporate relationship to the contributions and if there is a process for open source contributions, particularly if the contributors used corporate computers or labor, and whether this is addressed in the CCLA? On 7/17/22, 8:15 PM, "David Li" wrote: Hello, Sorry for some of the confusion here, I'll try to explain. (Apologies if this does not get linked back up correctly to the thread - Pony Mail does not let me login and the mailto: link generates a URL which is too long). I did preemptively ask the contributors to add the Apache license boilerplate before final submission, so apologies for the confusion there. The original files as I recall either had the header or did not have any header. There was a short discussion on the Arrow dev@ list at [1] where we decided to go through the IP clearance process to make sure everything was clear, since when the PR was first submitted, it had been developed for a long time outside the community (with commits dating back to 2020, although the PR was submitted in 2022). I believe Abner submitted an ICLA. I will re-confirm with the authors (I can't appear to view this information myself on the Apache side). [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/xytqttpov1d3q9mhd6nrlz7xkl7q5zjp Hopefully this helps, David - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Hello, Sorry for some of the confusion here, I'll try to explain. (Apologies if this does not get linked back up correctly to the thread - Pony Mail does not let me login and the mailto: link generates a URL which is too long). I did preemptively ask the contributors to add the Apache license boilerplate before final submission, so apologies for the confusion there. The original files as I recall either had the header or did not have any header. There was a short discussion on the Arrow dev@ list at [1] where we decided to go through the IP clearance process to make sure everything was clear, since when the PR was first submitted, it had been developed for a long time outside the community (with commits dating back to 2020, although the PR was submitted in 2022). I believe Abner submitted an ICLA. I will re-confirm with the authors (I can't appear to view this information myself on the Apache side). [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/xytqttpov1d3q9mhd6nrlz7xkl7q5zjp Hopefully this helps, David
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
> > Isn't developing on a fork of the project and submitting a PR considered "developed inside the project”? > Sure, but then you usually don’t need a software grant. Ah, but I do. When submitting a PR to an ASF project (e.g., [1]) I have had to either submit an ICLA (which I have) or check a box in my PR that explicitly states that my contribution is AL2.0 licensed which is effectively a "grant" of permission, which you acknowledge: > Why you may not claim it it exists. But the ASF doesn’t mind that as long as we have permission to use it under the Apache license and distribute it. More to the point of this conversation, I included the project's license headers in my contribution, rather than including my own headers and waiting for the maintainers to review my ICLA. > > The only difference here is that there were multiple contributors to that fork, and it is likely that some or all of them did so during working hours or using equipment by a company, which normally claims IP in such conditions; thus the explicit donation/grant. > Right and that is usually sorted out by those people getting permission from their employers and signing ICLAs. Some employers may require CCLAs. Neither you nor I know the internal Open Source contribution requirements of Dremio corporation, nor should we need to do so. We simply need to evaluate whether Dremio, and the individuals involved, have granted ASF sufficient rights. IMO the IP clearance status document [2] makes that clear, with appropriate due diligence to verify its contents. > All I was saying that having ASF headers make checking IP difficult. In this case, "checking IP" is no more difficult than "checking IP" in any pull request, hundreds/thousands of which occur on ASF projects each year, and none of which require a separate license header before the PR is reviewed, and all of which include the project's standard headers. All I am trying to do is point out that the contribution was coordinated with the PMC before it even started (with company representation on the PMC), with the apparent intention of donation throughout, with the majority of changes in already ASF-licensed files and the project's standard header added to any new files. This does not look like a product developed separately and eventually donated; this looks like an intentional open source contribution before a single line of code was written, and a nice paper-trail to back it up. I certainly support due diligence to confirm an ICLA from each contributor and a CCLA from the company which likely paid these developers for their work. I don't think headers matter much here. [1] - https://github.com/apache/maven-compiler-plugin/pull/95/files [2] - https://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/arrow-flight-sql-jdbc-driver.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Hi, Do we have an ICLA on file for "Abner Eduardo Ferreira”? I can see we do for the other people mentioned in the grant. Kind Regards, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Hi, > Isn't developing on a fork of the project and submitting a PR considered > "developed inside the project”? Sure, but then you usually don’t need a software grant. > I never claim copyright as my own or use my own header. This is exactly what > happened here. Why you may not claim it it exists. But the ASF doesn’t mind that as long as we have permission to use it under the Apache license and distribute it. > The only difference here is that there were multiple contributors to that > fork, and it is likely that some or all of them did so during working hours > or using equipment by a company, which normally claims IP in such conditions; > thus the explicit donation/grant. Right and that is usually sorted out by those people getting permission from their employers and signing ICLAs. Some employers may require CCLAs. > What headers do you propose they should have used instead on (1) code they > altered that already carried the ASF header, and (2) new files they created? All I was saying that having ASF headers make checking IP difficult. If this work was done at a company as you state above, I expect it to be covered by their IP / open source policies and that may include using headers with their copyright in them. Kind Regards, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Isn't developing on a fork of the project and submitting a PR considered "developed inside the project"? When I contribute to Apache projects, I fork the project, write code using the project's headers, and submit a PR from my fork. I never claim copyright as my own or use my own header. This is exactly what happened here. The only difference here is that there were multiple contributors to that fork, and it is likely that some or all of them did so during working hours or using equipment by a company, which normally claims IP in such conditions; thus the explicit donation/grant. What headers do you propose they should have used instead on (1) code they altered that already carried the ASF header, and (2) new files they created? On 7/16/22, 4:30 PM, "Justin Mclean" wrote: Hi, Which is an issue as the header has "Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) under one or more contributor license agreements”. That is not really the case yet. Normally wth a software grant you replace the headers and move the original copyright line to the NOTICE file. I'm curious why was this not developed inside the project? Kind Regards, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Hi, Which is an issue as the header has "Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) under one or more contributor license agreements”. That is not really the case yet. Normally wth a software grant you replace the headers and move the original copyright line to the NOTICE file. I'm curious why was this not developed inside the project? Kind Regards, Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
To elaborate and be more specific, the proposal identifies this fork [5] as the "source". [6] is an exhaustive list of the 1491 commits involved, constituting the donated IP. A spot check of commits with "license header" in the description shows ASF headers were used and there does not appear to have ever been any different headers. [5] - https://github.com/rafael-telles/arrow/tree/flight-jdbc-driver [6] - https://github.com/apache/arrow/compare/master...rafael-telles:arrow:flight-jdbc-driver On 7/16/22, 11:13 AM, "Daniel Widdis" wrote: Based on this blog post [1] it appears that the entire development was done in a sequence of draft PRs on the Arrow site (and on a fork), with the intention of donating it, and using ASF headers. Proposal: [2] Initial POC work: [3] Experimental version: [4] [1] - https://www.dremio.com/subsurface/arrow-flight-sql-a-universal-jdbc-driver/ [2] - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WQz32bDF06GgMdEYyzhakqUigBZkALFwDF2y1x3DTAI/ [3] - https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/9368 [4] - https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/10906 On 7/16/22, 7:47 AM, "Justin Mclean" wrote: Hi, What were the original headers on the files and/or where did the original code come from? The code pointed to has ASF headers which make determining the origin a little difficult. Kind Regards,. Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Based on this blog post [1] it appears that the entire development was done in a sequence of draft PRs on the Arrow site (and on a fork), with the intention of donating it, and using ASF headers. Proposal: [2] Initial POC work: [3] Experimental version: [4] [1] - https://www.dremio.com/subsurface/arrow-flight-sql-a-universal-jdbc-driver/ [2] - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WQz32bDF06GgMdEYyzhakqUigBZkALFwDF2y1x3DTAI/ [3] - https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/9368 [4] - https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/10906 On 7/16/22, 7:47 AM, "Justin Mclean" wrote: Hi, What were the original headers on the files and/or where did the original code come from? The code pointed to has ASF headers which make determining the origin a little difficult. Kind Regards,. Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [IP CLEARANCE] Arrow Flight SQL JDBC Driver
Hi, What were the original headers on the files and/or where did the original code come from? The code pointed to has ASF headers which make determining the origin a little difficult. Kind Regards,. Justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
