Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Yes, exactly.  Thanks.

And done.

Thanks,
Justin

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Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Nick Kew]

> On 8 May 2019, at 10:13, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> I can see it from here, but I was unable to log in.  Tried a password reset,
>> whereupon I'm no longer permitted even to view the report on the browser
>> that's logged in!
> 
> I assume you were going to sign off PageSpeed? It currently has no signs off 
> and will be asked to report next month if doesn’t get one. I can sign off the 
> report for you if you want, and I assume you have read it and can confirm 
> here that you were going to sign it off.
> 

Yes, exactly.  Thanks.

-- 
Nick Kew
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Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Stop sending me your bogus ass shit!!

As requested you have been unsubscribed from this list.

Thanks,
Justin

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Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Brian Young]

Stop sending me your bogus ass shit!!

On Tue, May 7, 2019, 6:50 PM Nick Kew 
> > On 5 May 2019, at 23:21, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> >
> > 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/May2019
>
> Anyone else having trouble with that?
>
> I can see it from here, but I was unable to log in.  Tried a password
> reset,
> whereupon I'm no longer permitted even to view the report on the browser
> that's logged in!
>
> --
> Nick Kew
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Brian Young]

For someone with ptsd!!! Do u want some more?

On Tue, May 7, 2019, 6:50 PM Nick Kew 
> > On 5 May 2019, at 23:21, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> >
> > 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/May2019
>
> Anyone else having trouble with that?
>
> I can see it from here, but I was unable to log in.  Tried a password
> reset,
> whereupon I'm no longer permitted even to view the report on the browser
> that's logged in!
>
> --
> Nick Kew
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> I can see it from here, but I was unable to log in.  Tried a password reset,
> whereupon I'm no longer permitted even to view the report on the browser
> that's logged in!

I assume you were going to sign off PageSpeed? It currently has no signs off 
and will be asked to report next month if doesn’t get one. I can sign off the 
report for you if you want, and I assume you have read it and can confirm here 
that you were going to sign it off.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2019, at 4:52 PM, Kevin A. McGrail  wrote:
> 
> On 5/7/2019 7:50 PM, Nick Kew wrote:
>>> On 5 May 2019, at 23:21, Justin Mclean  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/May2019
>> Anyone else having trouble with that?
>> 
>> I can see it from here, but I was unable to log in.  Tried a password reset,
>> whereupon I'm no longer permitted even to view the report on the browser
>> that's logged in!
>> 
> The new cwiki is tied into ASF LDAP. Use your committer username and
> password.  I did not have trouble with it.

If you had a confluence account that did not match your Apacheid (asf ldap) 
then you can request Infra merge that account.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Regards,
> 
> KAM
> 
> -- 
> Kevin A. McGrail
> Member, Apache Software Foundation
> Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171
> 
> 
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Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Kevin A. McGrail]

On 5/7/2019 7:50 PM, Nick Kew wrote:
>> On 5 May 2019, at 23:21, Justin Mclean  wrote:
>>
>> 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/May2019
> Anyone else having trouble with that?
>
> I can see it from here, but I was unable to log in.  Tried a password reset,
> whereupon I'm no longer permitted even to view the report on the browser
> that's logged in!
>
The new cwiki is tied into ASF LDAP. Use your committer username and
password.  I did not have trouble with it.

Regards,

KAM

-- 
Kevin A. McGrail
Member, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171


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Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Brian Young]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi -
>
> It seems that the report has been finalized. I had a comment in response
> to Justin’s notes regarding CDN testing for MxNet and ECharts.
>
> A third party provider is being used for these Anycast CDNs. Nothing to
> file for the ASF.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> > On May 5, 2019, at 3:21 PM, Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > The May report covering what happen in April is up. I just need to fill
> in the releases, as always feedback welcome and \if anyone want to add some
> more detail or anything I may of missed please go ahead. [1] It will be
> submitted to the board on Wednesday 8th.
> >
> > Thanks.,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/May2019
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
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>
>

Re: Draft Incubator report for May

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

It seems that the report has been finalized. I had a comment in response to 
Justin’s notes regarding CDN testing for MxNet and ECharts.

A third party provider is being used for these Anycast CDNs. Nothing to file 
for the ASF.

Regards,
Dave

> On May 5, 2019, at 3:21 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The May report covering what happen in April is up. I just need to fill in 
> the releases, as always feedback welcome and \if anyone want to add some more 
> detail or anything I may of missed please go ahead. [1] It will be submitted 
> to the board on Wednesday 8th.
> 
> Thanks.,
> Justin
> 
> 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/May2019
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Though I don't like implying that IPMC members are better than
> others...IMO the core problem is "uninformed people" or something like
> that.

Yep that seems a much better way of putting it, thanks for the input.

Justin

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Re: Draft incubator report

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 12:27 PM Justin Mclean  wrote:
> ...I actually when though the mailing list for the last 6 months and checked 
> what
> over 100 people had commented on one by one and reported back here. There was 
> a clear
> correlation between those on the IPMC and those who are not

Ah, if you have numbers that's different, sorry if I missed that!

Though I don't like implying that IPMC members are better than
others...IMO the core problem is "uninformed people" or something like
that.

Anyway, you are signing the report so I'll let you choose the best formulation!

-Bertrand

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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

Sorry I was referring to the second part of your email not the first. it seems 
you may of missed that bit of analysis. There is certainly some of what you say 
but the majority of IPMC members, even those who are not that involved are 
helpful and provide useful comments. The non-IPMC members tend to stand out a 
bit more, but t’sonly on a few occasions.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> I agree that drive-by comments are sometimes a problem here but I
> don't think they necessarily correlate with people being on the IPMC
> or not.

Like this discussion perhaps? :-) I actually when though the mailing list for 
the last 6 months and checked what over 100 people had commented on one by one 
and reported back here. There was a clear correlation between those on the IPMC 
and those who are not.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Julian Feinauer]

+1, I like that formulation.

On 2019/04/09 09:26:00, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 10:43 AM Julian Feinauer  wrote:
> > ...If its these "drive-by comments" that are annoying then I would name 
> > that so, e.g. "What
> > seems less helpful in some cases is involvement of non-IPMC members which 
> > drop
> > comments and leave the discussion then
> 
> I agree that drive-by comments are sometimes a problem here but I
> don't think they necessarily correlate with people being on the IPMC
> or not.
> 
> IMO the problem is people commenting on topics that they are not
> involved in, without checking prior comments or the prior history of a
> given discussion.
> 
> So maybe
> 
> ***
> What seems less helpful in some cases is 'drive-by' comments, where
> people comment without necessarily checking prior facts or history,
> and also sometimes leave discussions hanging. We should all be careful
> in the relatively vast "Incubator space" to inform ourselves about the
> actual context of the things we are commenting on, and we count on
> mentors, who are closer to their podlings, to set things straight when
> such comments are made.
> ***
> 
> -Bertrand
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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> 
> 

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Re: Draft incubator report

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 10:43 AM Julian Feinauer  wrote:
> ...If its these "drive-by comments" that are annoying then I would name that 
> so, e.g. "What
> seems less helpful in some cases is involvement of non-IPMC members which drop
> comments and leave the discussion then

I agree that drive-by comments are sometimes a problem here but I
don't think they necessarily correlate with people being on the IPMC
or not.

IMO the problem is people commenting on topics that they are not
involved in, without checking prior comments or the prior history of a
given discussion.

So maybe

***
What seems less helpful in some cases is 'drive-by' comments, where
people comment without necessarily checking prior facts or history,
and also sometimes leave discussions hanging. We should all be careful
in the relatively vast "Incubator space" to inform ourselves about the
actual context of the things we are commenting on, and we count on
mentors, who are closer to their podlings, to set things straight when
such comments are made.
***

-Bertrand

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Re: Draft incubator report

[Julian Feinauer]

Hi,

thanks for your clarification. I can only speak for myself and I try to involve 
in discussions where I think I can be helpful or where I have a strong opinion 
(usually from the podling perspective).
But, of course, I do not want to disturb things or annoy people on these lists, 
so I was a bit confused by the sentence, as it is, indeed, a public list.

If its these "drive-by comments" that arre annoying then I would name that so, 
e.g. "What seems less helpful in some cases is involvement of non-IPMC members 
which drop comments and leave the discussion then."

But, I can also live with your clarification.

Julian

On 2019/04/09 08:31:03, Justin Mclean  wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> > The last sentence indicates that non-IPMC members should not involve on 
> > this list? Is this the case?
> 
> Well we can’t stop them from being involved, and nor IMO should we,  it is a 
> public list after all. And most of the time they can be useful and helpful, 
> it's just in some cases they are not. it was more a summary of the several 
> “drive-by comments” threads/conversations we had.
> 
> > For me it reads like we as non-IPMC members should calm down on this list. 
> > Is this so?
> 
> Why would you re-word it? Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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> 
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> The last sentence indicates that non-IPMC members should not involve on this 
> list? Is this the case?

Well we can’t stop them from being involved, and nor IMO should we,  it is a 
public list after all. And most of the time they can be useful and helpful, 
it's just in some cases they are not. it was more a summary of the several 
“drive-by comments” threads/conversations we had.

> For me it reads like we as non-IPMC members should calm down on this list. Is 
> this so?

Why would you re-word it? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Julian Feinauer]

Hi Justin,

thanks for the report. I agree with all thats listed there, but theres one 
passage which I dont understand or which makes me think... it is:

Having a smaller IPMC was discussed, it was suggested that anyone not
signed up to the private list be removed from the IPMC. This was looked 
into and people who make infrequent contributors are still helpful and make 
useful contributions. What seems less helpful in some cases is involvement
of non-IPMC members on this list.

The last sentence indicates that non-IPMC members should not involve on this 
list? Is this the case?
For me it reads like we as non-IPMC members should calm down on this list. Is 
this so?

Julian

On 2019/04/07 02:11:37, Justin Mclean  wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> Draft report is up here [1] and it will be submitted on Wednesday  April 10th.
> 
> A lot happened in March so I may of missing something and it may need a 
> little more detail in places, if you think thins is the case please go ahead 
> and make changes. As always any if you have any feedback please provide it. 
> Dave if you want to add more info to the new clutch report, and Bertand if 
> you want to any more info on the cookbook page please go ahead.
> 
> Please note that the report doesn’t include anything mentioned on list in 
> April as that is for the next report.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/April2019
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> If the non-approved artifact is not advertised on the download page and is 
> made available to the development community on request then we are good.

Well I think so, but I’m sure that release policy does and infra doesn’t seem 
to allow it on docker hub, but perhaps they do “unofficial” can cover a lot of 
ground. So far on Roman has spoken up to support that idea which probably 
counts for something.

I think we’ll need to come up with some guidelines for docker and run them 
relevant parties to see if they agree it’s in line with policy.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 6:51 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Give the response from intro on use of docker. it would seem that this is not 
> actually allowed.
> 
>> Nightly builds for project-internal use clearly marked as "snapshot" or
>> "prerelease" (or similar) can be made available to project contributors. If
>> in doubt please ask your mentors or on the incubator general list.
> 
> I really wish this wasn’t the case.

Go back and focus on the docker question.

If the non-approved artifact is not advertised on the download page and is made 
available to the development community on request then we are good.

GitHub provides a way to hide Drafts and mark prerelease. Does DockerHub do 
similar?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Give the response from intro on use of docker. it would seem that this is not 
> actually allowed.

"response from INFRA" sorry.

Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

Give the response from intro on use of docker. it would seem that this is not 
actually allowed.

> Nightly builds for project-internal use clearly marked as "snapshot" or
> "prerelease" (or similar) can be made available to project contributors. If
> in doubt please ask your mentors or on the incubator general list.

I really wish this wasn’t the case.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Feb 7, 2019, at 3:41 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> I respectfully request that you edit the following to make it less alarming 
>> and remove any implication that the IPMC cannot handle our duties.
> 
> I don’t read that implication there, this is quite factual all of the project 
> had issues with unapproved releases that had gone unnoticed. I’ll see what I 
> can do as all of the situations are being dealt with I’ll remove “The bard 
> may need to be involved”. Usually the report only covers the period up to the 
> last day of the month, anything beyond that really belongs in the next report.

Thanks.

> 
>> ECharts has a huge number of pre-Apache releases I have provided guidance 
>> today.
> 
> And they also have a number of RCs still listed and versions 4.0.4 and 4.03 
> and 4.0.2 and perhaps 4.0.0 added after then entered incubation that I can’t 
> find a vote for.

Well. I provided the guidance an hour or two ago and it just now morning in 
China during their New Years holiday. …. we will see the response.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> I respectfully request that you edit the following to make it less alarming 
> and remove any implication that the IPMC cannot handle our duties.

I don’t read that implication there, this is quite factual all of the project 
had issues with unapproved releases that had gone unnoticed. I’ll see what I 
can do as all of the situations are being dealt with I’ll remove “The bard may 
need to be involved”. Usually the report only covers the period up to the last 
day of the month, anything beyond that really belongs in the next report.

> ECharts has a huge number of pre-Apache releases I have provided guidance 
> today.

And they also have a number of RCs still listed and versions 4.0.4 and 4.03 and 
4.0.2 and perhaps 4.0.0 added after then entered incubation that I can’t find a 
vote for.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

Given today’s discussion regarding ShardingSphere and how pre-Apache releases 
came in I think we have everything available for the Mentors to deal with any 
issues with ECharts.

I respectfully request that you edit the following to make it less alarming and 
remove any implication that the IPMC cannot handle our duties.

Three of the project Doris, Pinot and Sharding Sphere responded quickly and 
removed the releases. SDAP is addressing the issue. ECharts is a little 
reluctant to remove the releases due to the high use and popularity of the 
project and is trying to find another way of resolving the situation. The 
board may need to be involved.
ECharts has a huge number of pre-Apache releases I have provided guidance today.
ECharts latest attempt to release is in limbo in the VOTE thread on general@ - 
a discussion moved to legal-discuss which should have answered your concerns, 
but it is in limbo …

Regards,
Dave


> On Feb 7, 2019, at 12:38 AM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Sorry I meant to send this to the list but only Dave got it.
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: Justin Mclean 
>> Subject: Re: Draft incubator report
>> Date: 6 February 2019 at 8:48:46 am AEDT
>> To: Dave Fisher 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> Yes, that is better, but here is the next challenge. For distribution 
>>> channels like Maven, NPM, etc which some projects use to stage prospective 
>>> releases how do we recommend that projects stay within the available, but 
>>> not advertised rule? I think somewhere some guidance is needed.
>> 
>> When this was dicusssed (see [1]) it was stated:
>> "There are an unbounded number of such downstream channels, and there is no 
>> way we are going to formulate specific policies for all of them.”
>> 
>> But it’s really not that hard and is covered by existing policy. [2][3]
>> 
>> But some examples may help:
>> - With GitHub I would not expect any releases that appear on the release 
>> page (https://github.com/apache//releases)  to contain 
>> unreleased code or be compiled from such code. Only releases compiled from 
>> official approved source releases should be listed.
>> - With npm if I go "npm install ” I only expect to get the 
>> latest official release based on an approved offical source release. To get 
>> a RC or nightly I’d need to "npm install @sometag”
>> - With docker hub, if I go "docker pull ” I’d only expect to 
>> get the latest official approved version and not contain any unapproved 
>> code. I’s expect RCs to be tagged in some way and nightly with their commit 
>> hash or something similar.
>> - For PiPy I expect "pip install ” to install the lasted 
>> official approved release and no contain any unapproved code. And I not 
>> expect to see any releases on the release history page 
>> (https://pypi.org/project//#history) to contain unapproved 
>> code.
>> 
>> I think with most platforms you can work out what to do so that you are not 
>> advising nightlys or release candidates to the general public.
>> 
>> And of course your ASF project site shouldn't include any links to 
>> unapproved releases as mentioned in [2] "Do not include any links on the 
>> project website that might encourage non-developers to download and use 
>> nightly builds, snapshots, release candidates, or any other similar 
>> package”. Note it also says "If you find that the general public are 
>> downloading such test packages, then remove them.” so care still needs to be 
>> taken.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>> 
>> 1. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-270
>> 2. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#what
>> 3. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#release-types
> 

Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

HI,

> "A reminder to all incubating projects and mentors that all releases
> and distributions advertised to the general public need to be approved by
> the PPMC and IPMC. This includes docker, github, PyPi, npm and any
> other platform for publishing releases, and also covers release candidates.
> Nightly builds for project-internal use clearly marked as "snapshot" or
> "prerelease" (or similar) can be made available to project contributors. If
> in doubt please ask your mentors or on the incubator general list."
> 
> Objections?

None from me. I’ll make the change.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Myrle Krantz]

Cool.  I think we've generated some consensus, even if we haven't answered
every question.  To summarize, I'd like to change this paragraph of the
report:

"Again a reminder to all incubating projects and mentors that all releases
made available to the general public need to be approved by the PPMC and
IPMC. This includes docker, githubb, PyPi, npm and any other platform for
publishing releases, and also covers release candidates. If in doubt please
ask your mentors or on the incubator general list."

To this:

"A reminder to all incubating projects and mentors that all releases
and distributions advertised to the general public need to be approved by
the PPMC and IPMC. This includes docker, github, PyPi, npm and any
other platform for publishing releases, and also covers release candidates.
Nightly builds for project-internal use clearly marked as "snapshot" or
"prerelease" (or similar) can be made available to project contributors. If
in doubt please ask your mentors or on the incubator general list."

Objections?

Best Regards,
Myrle


On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 7:34 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:

>
>
> > On Feb 5, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Kevin A. McGrail 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 2/5/2019 6:27 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
>  As long as these are not available to the general public all is fine.
> [1]
> >>> s/available/advertised/
> >> Thanks that’s a better way of putting it. Obviously any published
> artefact is available to the general public if and when they discover it.
> >
> >
> > Thanks Justin.  The advertised vs available was a big concern for me
> > when I read that this morning.
>
> Yes, that is better, but here is the next challenge. For distribution
> channels like Maven, NPM, etc which some projects use to stage prospective
> releases how do we recommend that projects stay within the available, but
> not advertised rule? I think somewhere some guidance is needed. Recently on
> legal-discuss there is a long thread [1] which discusses binary channels.
> Perhaps some guidance can be pulled from that thread.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d578819f1afa6b8fb697ea72083e0fb05e43938a23d6e7bb804069b8@%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
> <
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d578819f1afa6b8fb697ea72083e0fb05e43938a23d6e7bb804069b8@%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>

Re: Draft incubator report

[Dave Fisher]

> On Feb 5, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Kevin A. McGrail  wrote:
> 
> On 2/5/2019 6:27 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
 As long as these are not available to the general public all is fine. [1]
>>> s/available/advertised/
>> Thanks that’s a better way of putting it. Obviously any published artefact 
>> is available to the general public if and when they discover it.
> 
> 
> Thanks Justin.  The advertised vs available was a big concern for me
> when I read that this morning.

Yes, that is better, but here is the next challenge. For distribution channels 
like Maven, NPM, etc which some projects use to stage prospective releases how 
do we recommend that projects stay within the available, but not advertised 
rule? I think somewhere some guidance is needed. Recently on legal-discuss 
there is a long thread [1] which discusses binary channels. Perhaps some 
guidance can be pulled from that thread.

Regards,
Dave

[1] 
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/d578819f1afa6b8fb697ea72083e0fb05e43938a23d6e7bb804069b8@%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
 

 


> 
> 
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Kevin A. McGrail]

On 2/5/2019 6:27 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
>
>>> As long as these are not available to the general public all is fine. [1]
>> s/available/advertised/
> Thanks that’s a better way of putting it. Obviously any published artefact is 
> available to the general public if and when they discover it.


Thanks Justin.  The advertised vs available was a big concern for me
when I read that this morning.


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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

>> As long as these are not available to the general public all is fine. [1]
> 
> s/available/advertised/

Thanks that’s a better way of putting it. Obviously any published artefact is 
available to the general public if and when they discover it.

What’s important is that it’s not the default when you do a "docker pull” or 
appear on github release pages or appear as a release on PyPi etc. etc.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Mark Thomas]

On 05/02/2019 10:23, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> We need a formulation which enables pre-release QA by non-coding
>> contributors.  I've given my attempt at formulating it.  Please give your
>> take on how to accomplish this.
> 
> As long as these are not available to the general public all is fine. [1]

s/available/advertised/

The pre-release artifacts are nearly always available to the general
public (i.e. they can download them if they wish). What matters is that
they are not advertised to the general public.

To put it another way:

Linking to snapshots on the public download page - not allowed.
Linking to snapshots on a page targeted at developers - allowed.

Mark

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Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> That statement would also forbid maven snapshots. Something which many
> projects (TLPS too) offer. Is that the intention?

They are fine as you need to explicitly do something to use them, i.e. they are 
not the default and the user understands that by using snapshots they are using 
unreleased code and the risk is all theirs.
 
> It’s important to me that when we forbid something that projects are doing
> for valid reasons that we offer an alternative within the same statement.

I’ve allready offered an alternative to how projects can do this in this 
thread. The exact details how to do this is going to vary by distribution 
method but all platforms that I know of have a way of doing this.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Myrle Krantz]

That statement would also forbid maven snapshots. Something which many
projects (TLPS too) offer. Is that the intention?

It’s important to me that when we forbid something that projects are doing
for valid reasons that we offer an alternative within the same statement.
I’ve offered a potential draft of alternative language which you rejected.
I humbly request that you propose an alternative.

Best Regards,
Myrle

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:24 AM Justin Mclean  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > We need a formulation which enables pre-release QA by non-coding
> > contributors.  I've given my attempt at formulating it.  Please give your
> > take on how to accomplish this.
>
> As long as these are not available to the general public all is fine. [1]
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#what
>
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>
>

Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> We need a formulation which enables pre-release QA by non-coding
> contributors.  I've given my attempt at formulating it.  Please give your
> take on how to accomplish this.

As long as these are not available to the general public all is fine. [1]

Thanks,
Justin

1. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#what

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Re: Draft incubator report

[Myrle Krantz]

Hi Justin,

We need a formulation which enables pre-release QA by non-coding
contributors.  I've given my attempt at formulating it.  Please give your
take on how to accomplish this.

Best Regards,
Myrle

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 10:01 PM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > This does *not* include nightly builds, or other project *internal*
> artifacts
> > used for quality control and experimentation.”
>
> Actually it does apply and those builds can’t be offered directly to the
> general public, but each of the platforms has mechanisms for doing that.
>
> For instance, marking nightly builds as latest (which means they get
> installed by default) in Docker would not be allowed [1], nor would marking
> nightly build as releases in guthub,
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-270
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>
>

Re: Draft incubator report

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> This does *not* include nightly builds, or other project *internal* artifacts
> used for quality control and experimentation.”

Actually it does apply and those builds can’t be offered directly to the 
general public, but each of the platforms has mechanisms for doing that. 

For instance, marking nightly builds as latest (which means they get installed 
by default) in Docker would not be allowed [1], nor would marking nightly build 
as releases in guthub,

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-270
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Woonsan Ko]

Hi Justin,

Everything looks good. Thank you!
By the way, I've noticed that some podling communities have been less
active since last week. The lunar new year day, tomorrow, might have
affected them, especially where most committers are working in Korea
or China. That can't be an excuse though. Just don't feel like prompt
reactions from those...

Woonsan

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 2:34 AM Justin Mclean  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Draft incubator report has been put up here [1]
>
> We’re still missing reports from a number of podling and you only have a few 
> days to get them in.
>
> Feedback and edits welcome. Is there anything I’ve missed that should be 
> mentioned?
>
> Here’s the text of the main part of the report:
>
> Incubator PMC report for February 2019
>
> The Apache Incubator is the entry path into the ASF for projects and
> codebases wishing to become part of the Foundation's efforts.
>
> There are presently 51 podlings incubating. During the month of January,
> podlings executed 3 distinct releases. We added no new IPMC members and
> had no IPMC members retire.
>
> We have one new podling Hudi. No project graduated last month but several
> podlings are heading towards graduation in the next few months.
>
> BatchEE took a vote to go to Apache Geronimo or TLP and decided on TLP and
> are back to being stuck in trying to graduate.
>
> We're currently missing several podling report but hopefully they be
> submitted and have mentor sign-off on time.
>
> There was one IP clearance.
>
> The mentor situation is continuing to improve. One of the mentors for the
> new Hudi project realised he didn't have the time be be able to give to the
> project and stood down. Thanks to him for being able to recognising that he
> wasn't going to be an effective mentor. Other mentors stepped forward to do
> the job.
>
> We have a problem with unapproved releases. A spot check on some (not all)
> projects reporting this month showed that five projects were making
> unapproved releases. Hopefully that's a statical aberration, but it seems
> likely that we probably have more codlings making unapproved releases than
> this. This has been brought up one the general list and I see a few
> projects have taken note of it.
>
> Three of the project Doris, Pinot and Sharding Sphere responded quickly and
> removed the releases. SDAP is addressing the issue. ECharts is a little
> reluctant to remove the releases due to the high use and popularity of the
> project and is trying to find another way of resolving the situation. The
> board may need to be involved.
>
> ECharts was also found to hosting a Chinese version of their incubating
> site at echarts dot baidu dot com. The PPMC is dealing with this.
>
> Again a reminder to all incubating projects and mentors that all releases
> made available to the general public need to be approved by the PPMC and
> IPMC. This includes docker, githubb, PyPi, npm and any other platform for
> publishing releases, and also covers release candidates. If in doubt please
> ask your mentors or on the incubator general list.
>
> Superset has not made an Apache release but is making progress towards one.
> They accidentally published a release candidate to GitHub but are sorting
> that out.
>
> There was also an interesting discussion on binary releases on
> legal-discuss that could have some impact on the incubator.
>
> New new project creating ASF training material may either go to straight to
> TLP or via the incubator. This did raise a few questions about how initial
> committers are selected.
>
> * Community
>
>   New IPMC members:
>   - None
>
>   People who left the IPMC:
>   - None
>
> * New Podlings
>   - Hudi
>
> * Podlings that failed to report, expected next month
>  - BRPC?
>  - Edgent?
>  - Heron?
>  - Iceberg?
>  - PageSpeed?
>  - Ratis?
>  - S2Graph?
>  - SDAP?
>  - Toree?
>
> * Graduations
>
>   The board has motions for the following:
>   - Unomi?
>
> * Releases
>
>   The following releases entered distribution during the month of
>   January:
>   - Apache Dubbo 2.7.0
>   - Apache SkyWalking 6.0.0-GA
>   - Apache Dubbo Spring Boot 0.2.1 and 0.1.2
>
> * IP Clearance
>   - Apache Arrow Rust DataFusion
>
> * Legal / Trademarks
>   N/A
>
> * Infrastructure
>   N/A
>
> * Miscellaneous
>   - vote to shut down some old unused incubator lists
>   - discussion on what to do with retired podling repositories
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
>
> 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/February2019
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Re: Draft incubator report

[Myrle Krantz]

Hi Justin,

This looks good.

in your general notice about releases, please include a note about nightly
builds, and any other non-releases which communities can make.

In other words, after: "This includes docker, githubb, PyPi, npm and any
other platform for
publishing releases, and also covers release candidates." please add "This
does *not* include nightly builds, or other project *internal* artifacts
used for quality control and experimentation."

We don't want to be scaring off projects that have a healthy attitude
towards UX-testing. : o)

Thanks,
Myrle

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 8:34 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Draft incubator report has been put up here [1]
>
> We’re still missing reports from a number of podling and you only have a
> few days to get them in.
>
> Feedback and edits welcome. Is there anything I’ve missed that should be
> mentioned?
>
> Here’s the text of the main part of the report:
>
> Incubator PMC report for February 2019
>
> The Apache Incubator is the entry path into the ASF for projects and
> codebases wishing to become part of the Foundation's efforts.
>
> There are presently 51 podlings incubating. During the month of January,
> podlings executed 3 distinct releases. We added no new IPMC members and
> had no IPMC members retire.
>
> We have one new podling Hudi. No project graduated last month but several
> podlings are heading towards graduation in the next few months.
>
> BatchEE took a vote to go to Apache Geronimo or TLP and decided on TLP and
> are back to being stuck in trying to graduate.
>
> We're currently missing several podling report but hopefully they be
> submitted and have mentor sign-off on time.
>
> There was one IP clearance.
>
> The mentor situation is continuing to improve. One of the mentors for the
> new Hudi project realised he didn't have the time be be able to give to
> the
> project and stood down. Thanks to him for being able to recognising that
> he
> wasn't going to be an effective mentor. Other mentors stepped forward to
> do
> the job.
>
> We have a problem with unapproved releases. A spot check on some (not all)
> projects reporting this month showed that five projects were making
> unapproved releases. Hopefully that's a statical aberration, but it seems
> likely that we probably have more codlings making unapproved releases than
> this. This has been brought up one the general list and I see a few
> projects have taken note of it.
>
> Three of the project Doris, Pinot and Sharding Sphere responded quickly
> and
> removed the releases. SDAP is addressing the issue. ECharts is a little
> reluctant to remove the releases due to the high use and popularity of the
> project and is trying to find another way of resolving the situation. The
> board may need to be involved.
>
> ECharts was also found to hosting a Chinese version of their incubating
> site at echarts dot baidu dot com. The PPMC is dealing with this.
>
> Again a reminder to all incubating projects and mentors that all releases
> made available to the general public need to be approved by the PPMC and
> IPMC. This includes docker, githubb, PyPi, npm and any other platform for
> publishing releases, and also covers release candidates. If in doubt
> please
> ask your mentors or on the incubator general list.
>
> Superset has not made an Apache release but is making progress towards
> one.
> They accidentally published a release candidate to GitHub but are sorting
> that out.
>
> There was also an interesting discussion on binary releases on
> legal-discuss that could have some impact on the incubator.
>
> New new project creating ASF training material may either go to straight
> to
> TLP or via the incubator. This did raise a few questions about how initial
> committers are selected.
>
> * Community
>
>   New IPMC members:
>   - None
>
>   People who left the IPMC:
>   - None
>
> * New Podlings
>   - Hudi
>
> * Podlings that failed to report, expected next month
>  - BRPC?
>  - Edgent?
>  - Heron?
>  - Iceberg?
>  - PageSpeed?
>  - Ratis?
>  - S2Graph?
>  - SDAP?
>  - Toree?
>
> * Graduations
>
>   The board has motions for the following:
>   - Unomi?
>
> * Releases
>
>   The following releases entered distribution during the month of
>   January:
>   - Apache Dubbo 2.7.0
>   - Apache SkyWalking 6.0.0-GA
>   - Apache Dubbo Spring Boot 0.2.1 and 0.1.2
>
> * IP Clearance
>   - Apache Arrow Rust DataFusion
>
> * Legal / Trademarks
>   N/A
>
> * Infrastructure
>   N/A
>
> * Miscellaneous
>   - vote to shut down some old unused incubator lists
>   - discussion on what to do with retired podling repositories
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
>
> 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/February2019
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>

Re: Draft incubator report for January 2019

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,
You can edit it in whimsy.
Thanks,
Justin

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 08:50 Myrle Krantz  Hey Justin,
>
> I just signed off weex... and then realized I was signing off on a report
> that was already submitted.  Sorry about that.
>
> Best Regards,
> Myrle
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:55 AM Justin Mclean  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Currently there's a couple of projects don’t have any sign offs. While we
> > have more than a day to go please don't leave it too late. Just a
> friendly
> > reminder any project that doesn't get any sign-off will be asked to
> report
> > next month and the board likes to see more than one sign off.
> >
> > Podlings missing signoff:
> >  - Annotator
> >  - BatchEE
> >  - Milagro
> >
> > Podlings with only one sign off:
> >  - Senssoft
> >  - Weex
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: Draft incubator report for January 2019

[Myrle Krantz]

Hey Justin,

I just signed off weex... and then realized I was signing off on a report
that was already submitted.  Sorry about that.

Best Regards,
Myrle

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:55 AM Justin Mclean  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Currently there's a couple of projects don’t have any sign offs. While we
> have more than a day to go please don't leave it too late. Just a friendly
> reminder any project that doesn't get any sign-off will be asked to report
> next month and the board likes to see more than one sign off.
>
> Podlings missing signoff:
>  - Annotator
>  - BatchEE
>  - Milagro
>
> Podlings with only one sign off:
>  - Senssoft
>  - Weex
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Draft incubator report for January 2019

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

Currently there's a couple of projects don’t have any sign offs. While we have 
more than a day to go please don't leave it too late. Just a friendly reminder 
any project that doesn't get any sign-off will be asked to report next month 
and the board likes to see more than one sign off.

Podlings missing signoff:
 - Annotator
 - BatchEE
 - Milagro

Podlings with only one sign off:
 - Senssoft
 - Weex

Thanks,
Justin

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Re: Draft incubator report for October 2018

[Luciano Resende]

I am on a cell phone most of the day today, but i can check in the evening.
If anyone bit me to it, there is a copy of the report on the marvin dev
list.

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 05:17 John D. Ament  wrote:

> There's a conflict in the Marvin AI report, not sure which sections to fix
> though.
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2018, 06:40 Justin Mclean  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I’m still waiting for a few podlings to submit their reports but have
> made
> > a draft incubator report. [1] Feedback, suggested changes, spelling or
> > grammar issues, omissions or anything else that anyone thinks needs doing
> > or changing or dicussing further please bring to my attention or just go
> > ahead make changes to the report. Note that a couple of podlings i.e.
> > Milagro and Superset appear in the main commentary. A section on
> Annotator
> > may also need be be added.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/October2018
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
-- 
Sent from my Mobile device

Re: Draft incubator report for October 2018

[John D. Ament]

There's a conflict in the Marvin AI report, not sure which sections to fix
though.

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018, 06:40 Justin Mclean  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’m still waiting for a few podlings to submit their reports but have made
> a draft incubator report. [1] Feedback, suggested changes, spelling or
> grammar issues, omissions or anything else that anyone thinks needs doing
> or changing or dicussing further please bring to my attention or just go
> ahead make changes to the report. Note that a couple of podlings i.e.
> Milagro and Superset appear in the main commentary. A section on Annotator
> may also need be be added.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/October2018
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>
>

Re: Draft incubator report for September

[Justin Mclean]

Hi, 

The report has been submitted.

In the end one two podling didn’t report (Gearpump and Milagro) and two reports 
didn’t have any sign offs (OpenWhisk and Warble).

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Draft incubator report for September

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

I’ve updated the draft incubator report here. [1].

Currently we are missing reports from 3 podlings; Gearpump, Milagro and 
OpenWhsk, and a number of report sign offs.

If you are a mentor of a project please read the report, sign off and make any 
comments you think are needed before Tuesday next week.

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/September2018#preview
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Re: Draft incubator report for September

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

>  HAWK graduated to TLP.

That should be HAWQ - thank you auto correct.

Justin

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