f inertia caused by the big amount of
developers.
As for abolishing the quiz, I'm strongly opposed to that. The quiz is a
hurdle that is there for a reason. Partly it shows determination. It also
filters out those people who don't know when they don't know something.
We ha
s/projects do have a free entry policy where you can
enter by adding yourself to the alias and the herds.xml file. This could be
indicated in herds.xml by a comment in the herd tag.
Paul
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On Thursday 27 April 2006 19:55, Henrik Brix Andersen wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 07:11:33PM +0200, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > The thing is, in most cases it doesn't really matter. But a herd is a
> > group of packages.
>
> That may be how it was originally intended
eople think herds are not
> maintainers - if only a few people think this then I suggest it would
> be better to accept the common interpretation of herd as a group of
> people who can maintain a package.
The thing is, in most cases it doesn't really matter. But a herd is a group of
packages.
Paul
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oks reasonable to me.
Paul
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u preserve the lib with the preserve_old_lib* functions in
> eutils.eclass
While this also does not stand any chance to win a beauty contest, this
would also be acceptable to me. The only thing I want is things not
starting to fail without a good reason. A new version of a library is on
itself not a g
On Tuesday 11 April 2006 19:13, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 April 2006 10:52, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > Please remember, this is the reason we have SLOTS
>
> no it isnt
>
> you're complaining about lack of a portage feature to track ABI's and
> urging t
this
case apr-util-1.2 and neon-0.25
Paul
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On Monday 10 April 2006 05:26, Daniel Ahlberg wrote:
> * if ebuild has $PN in SRC_URI (cosmetic).
Why is this one bad? It creates some flexibility, and has the name of the
package in one place only.
Paul
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y -user used to have that function, until it became very very high
trafic, and I and others dedided unsubscribing was better for my
productivity. It seems indeed a good idea.
Paul
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D
and you can also find it on
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~nattfodd/glep-pink.txt
:-)
I would like to argue in favour of not using a pink pony, but soon to be
extinct ufo guy instead. Alternatively Larry would also suffice.
Paul
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ity and security of gentoo. Especially
when viewing gentoo as a community. Bullying can not be tollerated.
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ously, with the amount of developers in the project the project isn't
small anymore, and noone knows everyone.
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y chases of other list members.
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ng list before signing up. I can't fix ignorance.
>
> Thanks for the compliment ;)
> "General Gentoo developer discussion mailing list" is the
> description... I guess my post was not general enough. ;)
You are right, the list is about the development of gentoo. Asking what the
reasons are why kde is not stabilized yet (while it used to be really fast)
is totally relevant to that. The list is intentionally not developer only. It
is a place for the interaction between developers and advanced users on what
happens in gentoo. It's not for flames ;-).
Paul
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This was not a wine, at least not phrased as it. And in the gentoo that I am a
developer for, there is always place for polite questions. I am certain that
this is also the gentoo that Daniel Robbins started.
Paul
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-- template -
Hi sender,
This is explained far better than I could do here in
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/foobar.xml
If you have further questions, feel free to ask.
Regards,
your friendly gentoo developer.
- end template -
Paul
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Pau
est revision, and checkouts aren't significantly faster
> than from FSFS.
That's interesting. If possible I think that a fsfs repository should be used.
BDB repositories are too fragile in respect to berkeley db.
Of course we should perhaps just try things out.
Paul
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Paul d
y be built upon with
the /etc/xprofile and ~/.xprofile support. One might want to call
it /etc/xprofile.d though.
Paul
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still interested in this, although I'm not currently working on any
wm/de.
Paul
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checkout could be cached
though (but I don't think that's done currently).
Paul
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a feature enhancement. CC's do
however have one other property that distinguishes them from votes. People
who are cc-ed to a bug must accept getting mail on it. Votes can be cast and
forgotten about. CC's keep asking for attention. You don't add a cc unless
you're inte
ge.
Paul
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oolchain maintainers from being able
> to enjoy the use of an overlay if they wished it.
Perhaps we could ask people who run overlays with dangerous ebuilds, to have
these ebuilds protected by some environment variables. (The var must be set
for the ebuild to work.)
Paul
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Paul de Vr
ast *some* measures to prevent this, then I'm OK with it. Allowing a
> free-for-all in the overlays is not acceptable.
I think that this is a reasonable requirement.
Paul
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user interaction.
Things that are not suited for public consumption should not be made
public in the first place. This is one reason that I don't think that
users should be given the opportunity to create their own gentoo-hosed
overlays. I believe that developers could be trusted though to do
s something like
planet.gentoo.org for ebuilds. I'd even be willing to move my personal
overlay there and clean it up.
Paul
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On Thursday 23 March 2006 22:32, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > I can only assume that other developers have similar overlays too.
> > These overlays form actually a wealth of resources that are hidden
> > away. If there were a semi-public overlay syste
le
is not random at all (only forum users, only users feeling strong enough to
respond). Second the sample is fairly small in relation to the user base.
Finally, the question is suggestive, so biassed to disliking of the tree. The
8% could very well already be caused by suggestive question
in which developers could keep their
overlays, this might help in getting this out to the public.
Paul
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erience I agree with Stuart that it can create a good bridge
between gentoo and "trusted users".
Paul
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ld
like to become a developer. This method has the advantage of weeding out
goldseekers and other people who should not be given access to the tree.
Paul
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n't think that the format
should be overengineered. Just having types should be enough.
Paul
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On Monday 06 March 2006 18:11, MIkey wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > Take a look at the options offered by a custom /etc/portage/bashrc. One
> > can do almost anything there. You can have it read in configuration files
> > and whatever. The documentation is kindof lack
examples' (yay for consistency!)
>
> Don't now, if I guess right what you want to say, but there's no plural
> of documentation afaik. ;p
Documentation is uncountable. So no singular or plural ;-)
Paul
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c/portage/bashrc. One
can do almost anything there. You can have it read in configuration files
and whatever. The documentation is kindof lacking, but most portage
features could actually be removed in favour of a custom bashrc. It would
just confuse the hell out of users.
Paul
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Paul de Vr
s a lot of wasted space. Filtering out
> /usr/share/doc as a whole is no choice, when you usually want it, but a
> fair share not.
>
I guess some advanced /etc/portage/bashrc magic isn't enough for you?
There are some neat tricks you can play with that.
Paul
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lowing USE flags are mutually exclusive:"
> eerror "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> eerror "Please choose only one of the above and disable the remaining"
> eerror "USE flags. For additional information about this problem, see"
> eerror "
ience, but not required. In any way, the biggest
use of the header is for unread items.
In general if you don't add the header, adding it later is a lot harder.
Paul
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ble to figure out
> how to install the thing...
The problem is that these flags are dependent. Bailing out on independent
useflags is not needed.
Paul
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pports resolving conflicting USE flags when the
> > deptree is built, the practical thing to do is for ebuilds w/
> > conflicting USE flags to bail.
>
> I, quite respectfully, disagree.
As explained above, when an ebuild can not deliver, it should fail, not
silently downgrade
On Thursday 02 March 2006 21:51, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:38:33 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> wrote:
> | Then explain people that doing this is not the way.
>
> Have done, repeatedly, as have many others.
>
> | And is it reall
On Thursday 02 March 2006 21:19, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:10:02 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> wrote:
> | I'm also convinced that deliberate circumvention is easy to detect.
>
> In that case, please provide a list of cases where !ar
priate responses to the problems
> we encounter.
That is my point exactly. I do encourage QA though to make available a list of
those syntax issues that break their tools. Take it for a positive spin,
developers will then be prepared to accomodate QA. We all want quality.
Paul
--
Paul d
On Thursday 02 March 2006 17:45, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:35:12 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> wrote:
> | * Just because breaking policy breaks a QA tool, but is guaranteed to
> | never break itself (formatting policy, like space vs. t
On Thursday 02 March 2006 14:09, Mark Loeser wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > * Just because breaking policy breaks a QA tool, but is guaranteed to
> > never break itself (formatting policy, like space vs. tab etc.)
> > does not increase the seve
should be
undertaken to get a structural solution to the problem. QA is
responsible for ensuring that the maintainer(s) of the package in
question keep on doing so.
Paul
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On Tuesday 28 February 2006 16:31, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:17:20 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> wrote:
> | On Tuesday 28 February 2006 15:52, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> | > Yes, it's an utterly trivial problem, but it is a QA violat
are added, and to signal it when the hacks break.
Paul
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acked around. Saying
"this is not allowed because of X policy" is not helpful as the costs of
disallowing it greatly outweigh the costs of overlooking it in a controlled
manner.
Paul
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that do not
support this feature. They will just store everything in DIST_PREFIX as
it is now.
Paul
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On Tuesday 28 February 2006 15:47, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:34:49 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> wrote:
> | Once that is supported, I'm also sure that those people involved will
> | be more than happy to fix their ebuilds to use thos
y
a coding style violation, not a QA violation. Coding style is to present
a uniform view to things, so things look proper. QA is about things being
proper, not looking proper.
Paul
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ther name for httpd
group. And it is not linked to the apache webserver. Perhaps the group
should be renamed, and webapp-config should require it's presence when it
is installed.
Paul
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On Tuesday 28 February 2006 15:48, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:21:23 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Huh? It violates the sandbox even if you do 'emerge sync' and never
> touch the ebuild. Look at the frickin' mkdir!
Hmm. Didn&#
t feature/a solution for the
fundamental problem. This bug should be marked as blocker for the package
related bugs in this respect. That way we can keep account of which
features in portage are needed for which packages.
Paul
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hanging set) to verify that php was built with a
certain feature.
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more than happy to fix their ebuilds to use those features. I do agree
with them though that the distribution should not be held back by missing
features in portage. Especially since those features have been missing
(recognized as such) for ages.
Paul
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ust enforce because of the policy. This
especially in those cases where there is no way to provide the ebuild
without breaking policy, or doing so would mean a greater inconvenience
to the users.
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ckages. And as such
portage would delete them. Currently we can not fix this. It has to do
with the reasons that depclean is "broken". One problem is that currently
portage does not record which particular versions satisfy a dependency.
As such removing packages that should not be used, may
there any valid reason that we can't have portage do this
automatically. This particular way is very user-un-friendly.
Paul
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to portage problems, then we do what necessary to warn users
about it, but keep the package. In this regard also look at various
dependency cycles, and/or use flag dependencies.
Paul
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.2.52). From the name it's
impossible to know what it belongs to. And the fact that there is no
collision is just by chance, not by name convention.
Paul
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PREFIX that has as default value ${PN}. This should not break anything
for unaware portage versions. For aware portage versions, the files would be
retrieved from ${DISTDIR}/${DIST_PREFIX} instead of ${DISTDIR}
Paul
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uename hack.
Thanks,
Paul
ps. Openldap people, the sooner you test, the sooner you get a new db
version :-P
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be unrelated. Perhaps our
rpm does not need to be compiled statically (it's not needed for
emergencies anyway, we have portage). That's a different matter though.
Paul
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eat them as header files anyway, because they should
be, and have to be included as header files, regardless of the name.
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On Monday 13 February 2006 13:19, Forrest Voight wrote:
> Why doesn't it make sense to split DISPLAYMANAGER and XSESSION up?
> They are related, but in different contexts. XSESSION is for the user
> and DISPLAYMANAGER is used at boot time.
>
> On 2/13/06, Paul de Vrieze <[
ft from the .bashrc/.bash_profile. Having a
sane default is probably better.
Paul
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ate puts the file in again. Only making a
fake file "fixes" that.
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ntial. It's more of a know what you're doing thing though.
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On Friday 27 January 2006 16:32, MIkey wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > Would you mind sharing the useflags you mean, and which packages you want
> > to build? It might be bugs in the packages involved.
>
> My standard USE flags for building a lamp server. No X, no cruft.
&
cular problem when building from stage1 for a while now.
You have different useflags than others. Yours don't trigger it. Bootstrap.sh
is for solving the initial bootstrapping interdependencies, not random
circular dependencies between packages.
Paul
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Mail:
On Friday 27 January 2006 15:32, MIkey wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > First of all, the object to be as fast as possible has been dropped as
> > main gentoo goal years ago. Stage 3 is indeed based on an old base. It
> > however starts you with a working system in which al
ilds shouldnt be calling strip
So we don't need to make such an estrip command. Even better.
Paul
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On Thursday 26 January 2006 17:17, MIkey wrote:
> Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > The "way around this" would be to change bootstrap.sh back to building a
> > minimal version of the current version that is then used to compile the
> > rest of the system, including the C
most of the other major distributions (nptl and gcc version).
> If users don't want to "waste time compiling" they don't need to be using
> gentoo in the first place.
Mod -1 : trolling
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On Thursday 26 January 2006 19:48, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Thursday 26 January 2006 11:16, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > On Thursday 26 January 2006 16:34, Mikey wrote:
> > > And those instructions have nothing whatsoever to do with common sense
> > > from a new
age's inability to
handle this. There is no way ebuilds could solve this problem except not
having the dependency. What is needed to solve it is merge perl without ssl
support, merge openssl, merge perl with ssl support. This is however not
clear to portage, so it doesn't know how to solv
might want to let
> someone else know.
This is only a temporary issue. As upgrading a stage3 is just a special case
of upgrading a fully live system the instructions still apply. Having
separate instructions is probably more confusing and a waste of developer
effort.
Paul
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On Thursday 26 January 2006 19:53, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Thursday 26 January 2006 11:06, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > On Thursday 26 January 2006 14:51, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > > On Thursday 26 January 2006 05:43, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > > > Another candidate w
hat you are doing, like Chris could be expected to, you
can skip some steps. All that can happen is that you need to remerge some
package because it doesn't work anymore.
Paul
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On Thursday 26 January 2006 14:51, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Thursday 26 January 2006 05:43, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > Another candidate would be the strip binary which might be called
> > by certain makefiles instead of being portage controlled.
>
> packages should neve
piler could be removed.
This however goes deep into bootstrapping a linux system. A complicated matter
that is not for the weak of heart.
Paul
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y, bootstrap.sh does things in a specific order to take care of
cyclic dependencies that fail because stage1 is a minimal ( say crippled )
environment. But indeed you're better off with a stage3 that is based on a
current glibc and gcc version. Minor version numbers don't matter much
though.
Paul
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g /usr/lib/portage/bin .. last time you were against
> that, weren't you?
What about a separate directory which is arch specific. Or have it installed
by an arch package, not by portage itself. Obviously a sed wrapper is not
needed for gnu systems, but is for bsd based ones. etc.
Paul
make sense to have such a directory for
portage. Another candidate would be the strip binary which might be called by
certain makefiles instead of being portage controlled.
Paul
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er version name is chosen is easy and uncumbersome. Of course don't
do this if it's likely to be years for a proper version to be chosen.
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
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able-debug" flag.
Although it mostly involves making the compiler extremely noisy, and forcing
in "-g" flags.
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
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ared no one was
> sufficiently interested to push one, figuring more important things,
> like squashing real functionality bugs, was more important, with the
> limited time every Gentoo dev has, being they are all volunteers.
Better solution is to use something like the freshmeat directory, or if
biological classification tree :)
Because if they do so they probably are projects. Of course that means
they just have an identity crisis, and should be allowed to go ahead
while they seek help ;-)
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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the story of my life in a nutshell...
Why not have a nice perl maintenance project? You could even start
subprojects that try to find things out and are abandoned when finished.
Projects are not big things that should exist forever.
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: [EMAIL
ry herd should be maintained by a
project. (Possibly assisted by another project).
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
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r with mysql
themselves. And talking with mysql, get at least a written statement.
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
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the non-existence of a boss?
Part of it is portage, and that is getting somewhere now. The "boss"
stepped down, so that others than him can work on it too.
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
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he council should be more brave, and make decisions like
rejecting flawed approaches. Even when discussions have not been thrown
up and re-eaten again.
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
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repoman to force them to ;-).
> For example - our baselayout supports UML and vServer (almost fully)
> native. Most of you won't see that, but to those that do it's something
> that's really nice.
One of the reasons that gentoo is still my favourite distro.
Paul
in the GWN, and possibly on the homepage. That's why we have
them.
Paul
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Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
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council should however not be a limiting factor to the improvement of
gentoo.
If we take that reducing the number of developers to 30 is not going to be
the solution, we need to find another solution to improve innovation in
gentoo. Part of that is in infrastructure, like project overlays that
On Wednesday 28 December 2005 21:13, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 December 2005 11:11, Paul de Vrieze wrote:
> > Unfortunately scanelf also doesn't know (nor can it know)
>
> no utility will be able to passively calculate dependencies that happen via
> dlopen()
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