[gentoo-user] Re: best rss reader?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2020-04-20 05:09, Ashley Dixon wrote:

> [1] https://github.com/kouya/snownews

Snownews seems to lack SSL support completely, or am I wrong?  The great
majority of feeds I read are https:// URLs.

-- 
Ian

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:49 PM Dale  wrote:
>> Then they created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got 
>> better.  Actually, a lot better.
> That is actually really good to hear.  The whole CoC/Proctors thing
> has been a bit of a mess and incredibly contentious.  It has also been
> mostly inactive, in part because for the most part these threads have
> actually done a pretty good job of moderating themselves.  Maybe it is
> because people fear moderation.  Maybe it is because nobody really
> wants to have to see us have to deal with it.  Bugs get filed asking
> for moderation, and maybe that is all it takes for the parties
> involved to decide to cool things down.
>
> As much as some seem to think otherwise, the reality is that most of
> the Proctors really don't like kicking that hornets nest.  In any case
> all Proctors actions are completely public in bugzilla so anybody can
> see for themselves.  If you don't see much it is because there isn't
> actually much to see...
>

I admit, I don't monitor what they do much but I've seen a huge
improvement.  I moderated a political site for a few years.  Still have
access but health and life takes up a lot of time.  I always referred to
it as herding cats.  You can herd up pretty much any animal, cows, pigs,
sheep and the list goes on but herding cats is a tough thing to
accomplish.  After being a moderator that has to deal with things that
can be opinion with no one in the right or wrong, I know first hand how
difficult and thankless the job can be.  Still, without it, it gets bad
pretty fast.  I didn't like doing timeouts, banning and such either. 
Thing is, when it needed doing, I did it.  I was the lead moderator for
a good long while. 

I think instead of dying, Gentoo is stronger even if it involves fewer
people.  Sure, there is packages that need some attention but if they
are in demand, usually someone steps up and gives them the attention
they need to get back up to date. I'm not sure why people keep thinking
Gentoo is dying.  Sometimes I think it is more about the difference
between binary distros they are coming from and Gentoo being source
based than Gentoo actually dying.  When people consider switching to
Gentoo, it's different from what they expect.  They may need to research
what Gentoo is first.  Gentoo certainly doesn't hold a persons hand
during the install or even after the install.  Heck, I been around a
long time and it doesn't hold my hand even today. 

Compared to the bad times, -dev is like heaven today.  It was beyond
words to describe during its worst days.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:49 PM Dale  wrote:
>
> Then they created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got 
> better.  Actually, a lot better.

That is actually really good to hear.  The whole CoC/Proctors thing
has been a bit of a mess and incredibly contentious.  It has also been
mostly inactive, in part because for the most part these threads have
actually done a pretty good job of moderating themselves.  Maybe it is
because people fear moderation.  Maybe it is because nobody really
wants to have to see us have to deal with it.  Bugs get filed asking
for moderation, and maybe that is all it takes for the parties
involved to decide to cool things down.

As much as some seem to think otherwise, the reality is that most of
the Proctors really don't like kicking that hornets nest.  In any case
all Proctors actions are completely public in bugzilla so anybody can
see for themselves.  If you don't see much it is because there isn't
actually much to see...

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 8:09 PM Dale  wrote:
>> Yea, -dev gets lively when someone steps on the toes of another dev but 
>> isn't that true about anywhere?  Gentoo is somewhat of a niche distro.
> I've commented on this elsewhere, but I think these two are related.
> With more mainstream binary distros a lot of differences of opinion
> result in forks.  Gentoo is really the only significant source-based
> distro out there, and we're basically minimally viable as it is, so
> there isn't much room for forking.  As a result we're just forced to
> work these sorts of issues out and come up with ways to coexist.
>
> Look at how many binary distros there are that are nearly identical
> except for their default desktop environment, or what they use for
> PID1, or some details around their QA/stabilization policy.  A distro
> like debian is big enough that if a bunch of people get ticked off
> with a decision you can fork it into two distros and they're each 3x
> as large as we are.  Do that 47 times and we end up with the situation
> we have in the linux world today.
>
> Certainly Gentoo hasn't be completely without forks, but very few have
> persisted, because we tend to try to let our users have it their way.
> So, if one user wants systemd-everything and another user wants to
> stick *systemd* in their INSTALL_MASK they don't have to have two
> different sets of devs independently maintaining every single other
> package to accomodate that preference.  Sure, not every option is
> equally well-supported, but that usually comes down to
> interest/manpower and rarely reflects some kind of top-down policy
> decision to forbid something.
>

When I said niche, I meant somewhat rare.  As you pointed out, Gentoo is
about the only source based distro available.  Pretty much everything
else is binary where you have few choices if any. I'm not sure if there
is another source based distro but I haven't looked.  I call it a niche
in what it provides but can also be a niche for what a user wants as well.

Since I been around a long while, I remember when -dev would be labeled
as not safe for work.  It was bad, really bad.  It made one glad that
they could only use keyboards instead of dueling pistols.  Then they
created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got better. 
Actually, a lot better.  Still, every once in a while, someone feels
someone else's foot on their toes and it gets a little tense. 
Eventually, it gets worked out and usually with a good result.  While I
tend to keep my anger in check, we all recall that hal thingy.  :-@  To
this day, I hate that thing.  Even tho I hated it, good things come from
it.  Eventually it was replaced with something . . . more sensible and
easier to work with.  I think these things make Gentoo stronger. 
Forking isn't really a option since it means a almost certain death of
the fork.  The only option, work toward a better solution, together.  I
monitor -dev so that I can see upcoming changes, like the switch to
python 3.7 that is coming soon.  It's interesting sometimes how a change
can cause fristion but generally ends up with a stronger Gentoo.  It
sort of forces people to work together even when they disagree.

This list is a lot like that.  How many times does a person ask how to
do something and get several different methods for doing it?  Some of
the time, the result is the same but the path there is different.  Each
one of those helps the person in need of help to learn something.  Heck,
I learn stuff all the time, keeping it in my head is difficult tho.  My
memory at times is bad enough that I created a text file with commands
that I just can't quite remember the details of.  Sometimes when someone
asks a question, I go take a peek to see if at some point it was
mentioned on this list.  If I find a close match, I post it.  Then
others post their methods.  In the end, a solution is found and we move
on to the next problem.  Same as -dev just different problems. 

I sometimes worry about Gentoo but it seems that every time things get
bumpy, something changes and Gentoo gets back to work and improves.  It
seems that is when a lot of good things happen.  While I don't want to
wish for those bumpy times, I do tend to like the part coming after
that.  :-D

Now if we can just get a decoder ring for the emerge error outputs.  :/ 
:-D

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 8:09 PM Dale  wrote:
> Yea, -dev gets lively when someone steps on the toes of another dev but isn't 
> that true about anywhere?  Gentoo is somewhat of a niche distro.

I've commented on this elsewhere, but I think these two are related.
With more mainstream binary distros a lot of differences of opinion
result in forks.  Gentoo is really the only significant source-based
distro out there, and we're basically minimally viable as it is, so
there isn't much room for forking.  As a result we're just forced to
work these sorts of issues out and come up with ways to coexist.

Look at how many binary distros there are that are nearly identical
except for their default desktop environment, or what they use for
PID1, or some details around their QA/stabilization policy.  A distro
like debian is big enough that if a bunch of people get ticked off
with a decision you can fork it into two distros and they're each 3x
as large as we are.  Do that 47 times and we end up with the situation
we have in the linux world today.

Certainly Gentoo hasn't be completely without forks, but very few have
persisted, because we tend to try to let our users have it their way.
So, if one user wants systemd-everything and another user wants to
stick *systemd* in their INSTALL_MASK they don't have to have two
different sets of devs independently maintaining every single other
package to accomodate that preference.  Sure, not every option is
equally well-supported, but that usually comes down to
interest/manpower and rarely reflects some kind of top-down policy
decision to forbid something.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Dale]

Consus wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 08:51:57PM +0200, Ralph Seichter wrote:
>> You can choose between learning more about the Linux kernel (it is not
>> a Gentoo-specific subject) or opt to go with Genkernel instead.
> I'm getting paid for writing Linux Kernel code. Still, manual
> configuration in 2020 is not not necessary until you're doing something
> tricky. Especially when you use Gentoo as your daily driver.
>
>

I started using Gentoo back in 2003.  Before that, I used Mandrake for a
few months, got tired of the init thingy and the rpm dependency
problems.  I went from someone who knew almost nothing about Linux in
general, zero experience with Gentoo, to having to configure the kernel
by hand and make it run.  It took a couple tries to get one to boot. 
Then it took a few times to get one where everything was working.  Since
then, I've configured dozens of kernels with almost all of them booting
and working the first time.  It isn't that hard.  It can't be if I can
do it with such success.

Part of using Gentoo is controlling a whole lot of things by hand.  You
config and compile your own kernel, you config packages with USE flags
and other settings and then compile your own software.  It's what Gentoo
is all about.  If one only wants to use binaries like binary based
distros, then those distros may be a better fit.  While Gentoo does have
some tools to help newcomers, I've found them to be more of a hindrance
than a help.  As some know, I seek help here quite often but I also
learn something too.  Getting that to stick in this old brain is my
problem.  lol  At times I am able to help someone else with what I've
learned as well.  Gentoo requires learning.  It does very little to hold
your hand like other binary distros.

Over the last several years I've seen this Gentoo dying question.  As
someone else pointed out, we're still here, warts and all.  Yea, -dev
gets lively when someone steps on the toes of another dev but isn't that
true about anywhere?  Gentoo is somewhat of a niche distro.  It's for
people who want to be able to configure their system the way they want
it not what someone unknown dev somewhere likes.  That requires
attention and learning, the latter the most important but both are
important since things are always changing.

Gentoo has issues but I don't see it dying.  I suspect in a year or two
this question will pop up again.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: best rss reader?

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2020-04-19 21:15, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:

> i have newsboat, but it got masked.

Really?  Masked as in package.mask?  When?  I don't see that.
I use it too, and it is better than the alternatives IMO.

-- 
Ian

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Consus]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 03:51:00PM -0500, Michael Jones wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:27 PM Rich Freeman  wrote:
> 
> > There are some QA/CI tools out there that have substantially improved
> > the quality of the distro, and most of them have started out as one
> > dev just creating a tinderbox or whatever and filing bugs when they
> > see problems.  The only real downside to this is if somebody quits we
> > might lose these tools - but there are efforts to host them on infra
> > once we start to treat them as part of the core experience.  When they
> > start out they're just one dev's random contributions and they may or
> > may not persist.
> >
> 
> 
> Speaking of tinderboxes:
> 
> Is there any kind of QA tool that normal end users can contribute CPU
> cycles to? Given the massive combinatorial explosion of package
> configurations that can be installed using Gentoo, one might imagine that
> there's some value in simply installing programs with different USE
> combinations and running the self-tests for those programs.
> 
> What I don't want to do is anything manual. Be it filing bugs, or testing
> things.
> 
> But I'd be happy to run some arbitrary QA tool in a virtual machine or
> chroot nearly indefinitely.

I have power8 to spare :D

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Michael Jones]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:02 PM Gregory Rudolph  wrote:

> I would also offer up some computing power for that, on VMs, or physical
> hardware with different configurations. I'd like to be more involved with
> the Gentoo Development community, but time is rarely ever on my side.
>
>
> Best wishes, gentoo's not dead,
>

Right, I'm sitting on several big-beefy x86_64 machines (They're older
machines, but they check out...) that typically are powered off.

I would be happy to donate CPU cycles from one of them.

Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Gregory Rudolph]

I would also offer up some computing power for that, on VMs, or physical
hardware with different configurations. I'd like to be more involved
with the Gentoo Development community, but time is rarely ever on my side.


Best wishes, gentoo's not dead,

Rudi


Gregory 'Rudi' Rudolph
r...@x.nightmare.haus
(518) 888-6156


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On 4/21/20 4:51 PM, Michael Jones wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:27 PM Rich Freeman  > wrote: 
>
> There are some QA/CI tools out there that have substantially improved
> the quality of the distro, and most of them have started out as one
> dev just creating a tinderbox or whatever and filing bugs when they
> see problems.  The only real downside to this is if somebody quits we
> might lose these tools - but there are efforts to host them on infra
> once we start to treat them as part of the core experience.  When they
> start out they're just one dev's random contributions and they may or
> may not persist.
>
>
>
> Speaking of tinderboxes:
>
> Is there any kind of QA tool that normal end users can contribute CPU
> cycles to? Given the massive combinatorial explosion of package
> configurations that can be installed using Gentoo, one might imagine
> that there's some value in simply installing programs with different
> USE combinations and running the self-tests for those programs.
>
> What I don't want to do is anything manual. Be it filing bugs, or
> testing things.
>
> But I'd be happy to run some arbitrary QA tool in a virtual machine or
> chroot nearly indefinitely.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[WooHyung Jeon]

On 2020-04-22 오전 6:40, Ashley Dixon wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 06:18:59AM +0900, WooHyung Jeon wrote:

First, how much different between the gentoo-kernel-bin's '.config', and
gentoo-kernel's '.config'? I mean, is it quite similarly big to cover most
of the normal devices?


gentoo-kernel and gentoo-kernel-bin are the same thing underneath; the latter is
just a binary distribution of the former. To see the many other packages that do
this, run `EIX_LIMIT=0 eix *-bin | less`.  I elaborate on  this  in  an  earlier
message in this thread.


Second, how about adding these simple description in the handbook, in the
section 'Configuring the Linux kernel'. Then, the new-comers can read and
understand the differences and can choose what fits for them.


gentoo-kernel isn't under the management of the Gentoo Kernel Team [1].  As  the
quoted e-mail from M.  Pagano (a few messages ago, in this thread) states, it is
a non-official project designed to provide as wide coverage as possible.  As the
purpose of Gentoo is self-compilation and extreme customisability for the  gains
of speed and size, gentoo-kernel is unlikely to be wanted by those  looking  for
more control and freedom compared to other distros.

Why convolute the already-intimidating Handbook with  additional  choices,  when
one route (gentoo-sources) will almost-always be preferred ?  Although, I  agree
it should be  explained  somewhere  in  the  Wiki  (or  even  in  the  package's
descriptions),  just  not  on  the  Handbook   presented   to   all   newcomers.

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Kernel



Thanks! I learned a lot again!

--
Regards,
W. H. Jeon

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Ashley Dixon]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 06:18:59AM +0900, WooHyung Jeon wrote:
> First, how much different between the gentoo-kernel-bin's '.config', and
> gentoo-kernel's '.config'? I mean, is it quite similarly big to cover most
> of the normal devices?

gentoo-kernel and gentoo-kernel-bin are the same thing underneath; the latter is
just a binary distribution of the former. To see the many other packages that do
this, run `EIX_LIMIT=0 eix *-bin | less`.  I elaborate on  this  in  an  earlier
message in this thread.

> Second, how about adding these simple description in the handbook, in the
> section 'Configuring the Linux kernel'. Then, the new-comers can read and
> understand the differences and can choose what fits for them.

gentoo-kernel isn't under the management of the Gentoo Kernel Team [1].  As  the
quoted e-mail from M.  Pagano (a few messages ago, in this thread) states, it is
a non-official project designed to provide as wide coverage as possible.  As the
purpose of Gentoo is self-compilation and extreme customisability for the  gains
of speed and size, gentoo-kernel is unlikely to be wanted by those  looking  for
more control and freedom compared to other distros.

Why convolute the already-intimidating Handbook with  additional  choices,  when
one route (gentoo-sources) will almost-always be preferred ?  Although, I  agree
it should be  explained  somewhere  in  the  Wiki  (or  even  in  the  package's
descriptions),  just  not  on  the  Handbook   presented   to   all   newcomers.

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Kernel

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
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A30E BF25
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Re: [gentoo-user] PORTAGE_BUILDDIR does not exist

[Jack]

I'd start by looking at /var/tmp/portage/ (unless you changed the  
default PORTAGE_TMPDIR) to see what evidence the emerge process might  
have left.


On 2020.04.21 16:58, Ashley Dixon wrote:

Hi,

I've been getting this build message for every package that I attempt  
to emerge.
I'm starting to become  concerned  that  my  Portage  installation   
is  corrupt,
although  I  want  to  make  sure  before  I  try  and  embark  on   
the  lengthy

Portage-rescue process.

For example, if I try to emerge app-editors/emacs (a package I  have   
never  had
installed), I get the following error, both from emerge and a raw  
Python  crash:


Calculating dependencies  ... done!

>>> Verifying ebuild manifests

>>> Emerging (1 of 5) net-libs/liblockfile-1.16::gentoo
 * Fetching files in the background.
 * To view fetch progress, run in another terminal:
 * tail -f /var/log/emerge-fetch.log
[Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'mount': 'mount':
   /bin/bash -c /usr/lib/portage/python3.6/ebuild.sh clean
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/process.py", line  
382, in spawn

unshare_flags, cgroup)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/process.py", line  
691, in _exec

'--make-slave', '/proc'])
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/subprocess.py", line 729, in __init__
restore_signals, start_new_session)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/subprocess.py", line 1364, in  
_execute_child

raise child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg, err_filename)
FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'mount':  
'mount'
 * The ebuild phase 'die_hooks' has been aborted since  
PORTAGE_BUILDDIR

 * does not exist: '/var/tmp/portage/net-libs/liblockfile-1.16'

>>> Failed to emerge net-libs/liblockfile-1.16
 * Messages for package net-libs/liblockfile-1.16:

liblockfile.>


Does  anyone  know  if  anything  can  be  done,  short  of   
re-installing   and

re-configuring Portage ?

--

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
DA96 D18A
8A7B B0D2
A30E BF25
F290 A8AA

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[WooHyung Jeon]

On 2020-04-22 오전 1:48, Consus wrote:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 06:33:05PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

On 21/04/2020 18:05, Gerion Entrup wrote:

what is the difference between these three packages? I don't get it from the 
description alone.

gentoo-sources: A linux kernel source tree with Gentoo patchset
gentoo-kernel-bin: A linux kernel binary image with initramfs?
gentoo-kernel: ???


This is what Mike Pagano (who maintains gentoo-sources and is part of
Gentoo's kernel team) had to say:


Gentoo-sources is the upstream kernel with our patches on top.
They could include experimental patches (use=experimental),
or fixes that have not made it into the mainline upstream kernel.

If you have something you might want in gentoo-sources, all it
takes is a bug and some discussion and if it makes sense we usually will
include it.

Gentoo-sources is under the umbrella of the Gentoo Kernel Team.

gentoo-kernel is a project done by a developer outside of the kernel team.
I believe his goal was to provide a kernel with a sane default config
that should generally work for everyone.  It looks like it uses the
config file from Arch Linux.  The kernel project is not involved with
that.
I think (it's not my work), the idea is like when you install Ubuntu or some 
other
distro where they try to make a kernel with a config covering a ton of stuff so
you don't have to compile your own.


Unfortunately he didn't say anything about gentoo-kernel-bin. So... no idea.


Package gentoo-kernel is the source package. It contains kernel source
code + default usable config and builds you a new kernel during emerge.
gentoo-kernel-bin contains prebuilt kernel image without any source
code.



I have two questions.

First, how much different between the gentoo-kernel-bin's '.config', and 
gentoo-kernel's '.config'? I mean, is it quite similarly big to cover 
most of the normal devices?


Second, how about adding these simple description in the handbook, in 
the section 'Configuring the Linux kernel'. Then, the new-comers can 
read and understand the differences and can choose what fits for them.


Thanks.

--
Regards,
W. H. Jeon

[gentoo-user] PORTAGE_BUILDDIR does not exist

[Ashley Dixon]

Hi,

I've been getting this build message for every package that I attempt to emerge.
I'm starting to become  concerned  that  my  Portage  installation  is  corrupt,
although  I  want  to  make  sure  before  I  try  and  embark  on  the  lengthy
Portage-rescue process.

For example, if I try to emerge app-editors/emacs (a package I  have  never  had
installed), I get the following error, both from emerge and a raw Python  crash:

Calculating dependencies  ... done!

>>> Verifying ebuild manifests

>>> Emerging (1 of 5) net-libs/liblockfile-1.16::gentoo
 * Fetching files in the background.
 * To view fetch progress, run in another terminal:
 * tail -f /var/log/emerge-fetch.log
[Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'mount': 'mount':
   /bin/bash -c /usr/lib/portage/python3.6/ebuild.sh clean
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/process.py", line 382, in 
spawn
unshare_flags, cgroup)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages/portage/process.py", line 691, in 
_exec
'--make-slave', '/proc'])
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/subprocess.py", line 729, in __init__
restore_signals, start_new_session)
  File "/usr/lib64/python3.6/subprocess.py", line 1364, in _execute_child
raise child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg, err_filename)
FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'mount': 'mount'
 * The ebuild phase 'die_hooks' has been aborted since PORTAGE_BUILDDIR
 * does not exist: '/var/tmp/portage/net-libs/liblockfile-1.16'

>>> Failed to emerge net-libs/liblockfile-1.16
 * Messages for package net-libs/liblockfile-1.16:



Does  anyone  know  if  anything  can  be  done,  short  of  re-installing   and
re-configuring Portage ?

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

2A9A 4117
DA96 D18A
8A7B B0D2
A30E BF25
F290 A8AA



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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Tinderboxes?

[Michael Jones]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:27 PM Rich Freeman  wrote:

> There are some QA/CI tools out there that have substantially improved
> the quality of the distro, and most of them have started out as one
> dev just creating a tinderbox or whatever and filing bugs when they
> see problems.  The only real downside to this is if somebody quits we
> might lose these tools - but there are efforts to host them on infra
> once we start to treat them as part of the core experience.  When they
> start out they're just one dev's random contributions and they may or
> may not persist.
>


Speaking of tinderboxes:

Is there any kind of QA tool that normal end users can contribute CPU
cycles to? Given the massive combinatorial explosion of package
configurations that can be installed using Gentoo, one might imagine that
there's some value in simply installing programs with different USE
combinations and running the self-tests for those programs.

What I don't want to do is anything manual. Be it filing bugs, or testing
things.

But I'd be happy to run some arbitrary QA tool in a virtual machine or
chroot nearly indefinitely.

Re: [gentoo-user] HCL web-page

[Andrey Ponomarenko]

20.04.2020, 00:56, "the...@sys-concept.com" :There used to be webpage http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/where use could paste output of: lspci -nBut is no longer active, did it change? Use LKDDb instead: https://cateee.net/lkddb/ This is a list of device ids supported by kernel 5.6: https://cateee.net/sources/lkddb/lkddb-5.6.list hw-probe from https://linux-hardware.org searches your device ids in this list automatically: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Hardware_probe Andrey 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:01 PM Consus  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 07:47:44PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 21 April 2020 17:58:03 BST Consus wrote:
> >
> > > ... and even distribution kernel is not an official thing, but a desperate
> > > attempt of someone to fix things.
> >
> > Eh? Desperate?
>
> Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.
>

Much of the progress in Gentoo comes from things like this.  Indeed it
is practically encouraged if you read GLEP 39.  While a lot of
teamwork/consensus is required to keep the lights on and generally
maintain good QA, most of the work of really advancing Gentoo comes
from small groups of one or more devs just independently forking stuff
and moving it forward.  In a fork you can make more radical changes
without worrying about breaking things, and then eventually the
improvements either make their way back into the original project, or
the fork replaces the original.  Those who still care for the original
do the community a service by providing incremental improvements
without instability.

The beauty of FOSS is that the code is all free to anybody to use as
they wish.  There is no such thing as a "bad fork."  It is just more
free code that anybody can use as they wish.  Obviously people don't
always work on the things we want them to work on, but it doesn't cost
us anything really when they do so, and we're always free to do the
same ourselves.

There are some QA/CI tools out there that have substantially improved
the quality of the distro, and most of them have started out as one
dev just creating a tinderbox or whatever and filing bugs when they
see problems.  The only real downside to this is if somebody quits we
might lose these tools - but there are efforts to host them on infra
once we start to treat them as part of the core experience.  When they
start out they're just one dev's random contributions and they may or
may not persist.

On the topic of portage mgorny is not the only one to talk about
forking it.  Not too long ago there was talk about a fork to work on
an improved DAG solver and other speed/quality improvements.  And of
course there was paludis and pkgcore much further back.  Those
projects in part lead to PMS which has improved the quality of our
repos substantially.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Gerion Entrup]

Am Dienstag, 21. April 2020, 18:28:52 CEST schrieb Ashley Dixon:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 06:04:33PM +0200, Gerion Entrup wrote:
> > My summary then is:
> >
> > gentoo-sources: vanilla source tree + gentoo-patches (no automatic compiling
> > etc.).
> >
> > gentoo-kernel: take gentoo-sources as source, the kernel .config file from
> > Arch Linux and then compile and install it automatically with portage.
> >
> > gentoo-kernel-bin: The precompiled version of gentoo-kernel (except of the
> > initramfs that has to be generated on a per PC basis).
> 
> Yeah, although I'm not sure "compile" is the right word for initramfs.   
> Perhaps
> "configure" would sound better ?  Anyway, yes, that's a reasonable  summary.  
>  I
> don't know if the .config file in gentoo-kernel is _identical_ to that of  
> Arch,
> but it's certainly engineered to fit a wide range of use-cases, much  like  
> most
> Linux distros (think Ubuntu's  built  in  support  for  almost  every  piece  
> of
> hardware imaginable, hence  the  latest  L.T.S.\  release  weighing  in  at  
> two
> gigabytes).
> 
> In general, I would always go for  the  vanilla  gentoo-sources.   Basic  
> kernel
> configuration is explained excellently throughout the Installation Handbook, 
> and
> unless you have a _very_ old/slow C.P.U., compilation  time  should  not  be  
> an
> issue, unless you need to re-configure your kernel options  on  a  daily  
> basis.

Yeah, I have a self configured kernel, too. However, I recently switched my
mainboard + CPU and finding all sensor modules per hand is a lot more
difficult than using sensors-detect + localmodconfig.

Gerion

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Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:33:17 +0300, Consus wrote:

> Still you have to manually configure things. And I know that Gentoo is
> about choice, but configuring kernel is hard.

No it's not. It may be time consuming, especially the first time, but it
is not difficult because the handbook explains it well. It's pretty much
a once only job too as once you have a working config you can use it as
the base for all upgrades.

Of course, if you don't want to do it yourself, there are alternatives,
like genkernel.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

I don't have any solution, but I certainly admire the problem.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 07:47:44PM +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 April 2020 17:58:03 BST Consus wrote:
> 
> > ... and even distribution kernel is not an official thing, but a desperate
> > attempt of someone to fix things.
> 
> Eh? Desperate?

Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 08:51:57PM +0200, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> You can choose between learning more about the Linux kernel (it is not
> a Gentoo-specific subject) or opt to go with Genkernel instead.

I'm getting paid for writing Linux Kernel code. Still, manual
configuration in 2020 is not not necessary until you're doing something
tricky. Especially when you use Gentoo as your daily driver.

> I see nothing "dead" in that.

I'm happy to see genkernel actually getting some love. A couple of years
ago it was in much worse shape.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Ralph Seichter]

* con...@ftml.net:

> Still you have to manually configure things. And I know that Gentoo is
> about choice, but configuring kernel is hard.

It may be hard for you personally, but it is not hard for everyone, so I
object to the generalisation. You can choose between learning more about
the Linux kernel (it is not a Gentoo-specific subject) or opt to go with
Genkernel instead. I see nothing "dead" in that.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 02:41:59PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> Sure, but by that standard Gentoo has been dead from day 1.  :)

Yeah, I remember.

> I'm all for precompiled kernels or packages that build them from
> source like any other Gentoo package.  However, these have only been a
> thing since very recently on Gentoo.

Well, having prebuilt and more or less tested gentoo-kernel-bin helps a
_lot_.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday, 21 April 2020 17:58:03 BST Consus wrote:

> ... and even distribution kernel is not an official thing, but a desperate
> attempt of someone to fix things.

Eh? Desperate?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:33 PM Consus  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 02:10:54PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:58 PM Consus  wrote:
> > >
> > > even distribution kernel is not an
> > > official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.
> > >
> >
> > Huh?  gentoo-sources is in at least as good a shape as I've ever seen
> > it.  I'd argue it is in better shape than at a lot of times in the
> > past.
>
> Still you have to manually configure things. And I know that Gentoo is
> about choice, but configuring kernel is hard.
>

Sure, but by that standard Gentoo has been dead from day 1.  :)

I'm all for precompiled kernels or packages that build them from
source like any other Gentoo package.  However, these have only been a
thing since very recently on Gentoo.  If they're not 100% working this
is more because they're new/etc than any kind of decay.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 02:10:54PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:58 PM Consus  wrote:
> >
> > even distribution kernel is not an
> > official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.
> >
> 
> Huh?  gentoo-sources is in at least as good a shape as I've ever seen
> it.  I'd argue it is in better shape than at a lot of times in the
> past.

Still you have to manually configure things. And I know that Gentoo is
about choice, but configuring kernel is hard.
 
> There are other kernels in the repo, as there have been for as long as
> I can remember.   They vary in purpose and level of QA.  And of course
> you can just download your own sources considering the official
> handbook instructions has you build your own kernel anyway...  I
> personally just run upstream longterm so that I have more control over
> things, because I run ZFS.  However I wouldn't say that this is any
> problem with the Gentoo kernels - I just have unusual needs and a
> package for the source tarball doesn't really add much value anyway.
> A package that actually builds/installs a working kernel seems like a
> lot more value-add aside from the QA.

That's why I love gentoo-kernel-bin. It provides a decent kernel without
any "oh crap oh crap oh crap what should I do with all these new
options".

P.S. genkernel seems to be actively maintained again, neat.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:58 PM Consus  wrote:
>
> even distribution kernel is not an
> official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.
>

Huh?  gentoo-sources is in at least as good a shape as I've ever seen
it.  I'd argue it is in better shape than at a lot of times in the
past.

There are other kernels in the repo, as there have been for as long as
I can remember.   They vary in purpose and level of QA.  And of course
you can just download your own sources considering the official
handbook instructions has you build your own kernel anyway...  I
personally just run upstream longterm so that I have more control over
things, because I run ZFS.  However I wouldn't say that this is any
problem with the Gentoo kernels - I just have unusual needs and a
package for the source tarball doesn't really add much value anyway.
A package that actually builds/installs a working kernel seems like a
lot more value-add aside from the QA.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: Problem understanding "eix"

[Martin Vaeth]

Dr Rainer Woitok  wrote:
> Martin,
>
> On Monday, 2020-04-20 18:21:00 -, you wrote:
>
>> ...
>> >app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.3.3   0 1
>> ...
>> The second value depends on your ARCH;
>> Since {isunstable} fails, I suppose that your ARCH is not amd64.
>
>$ eix --dump | grep DEFAULT_ARCH
>DEFAULT_ARCH="amd64"
>$
>
> So no, that's a wrong assumption.

DEFAULT_ARCH is normally not used, because it should be set in
the profile. Does
  eix --print ARCH
also show amd64?

> farther down just tersly notes  "This is analogous  to availableversions
> with the difference that only installed versions are printed".
>
> So it boils down to the question what precisely "analogous" means

It means that it refers to the installed versions (which have a
different set of data than the available versions).

>$ cat acct-group/input-0/KEYWORDS app-crypt/tpm2-tss-2.3.3/KEYWORDS |
>  xargs -n1 | grep '^~?amd64$'
>amd64
>~amd64
>$
>
> So the information is clearly there.

Yes, but it has no meaning (except in *.tbz2 files).
Therefore eix ignores it. There are no plans to change this.

>export FMT="/\t\t{isstable}1{else}0{} "
>FMT=$FMT"{isunstable}1{else}0{}\n"
>eix --format '' \
>--category-name --regex 'app-crypt/tpm2-tss$|acct-group/input'

[reformatted slighly to avoid length restriction]

>app-crypt/tpm2-tss 2.2.3-r21 1
>app-crypt/tpm2-tss 2.3.3   1 1

This is strange: Both versions are only ~amd64, and in your previous
posting the output for {isstable} was indeed 0. So there appears to be
a contradiction with your previous posting.
Also the output of {isunstable} is the opposite of your previous posting.
I re-checked, and the keywords have not changed in the gentoo
repository. Do you use a different repository or do you have modified
something?

> The manual mentions in another place that the  "test for
> markedversions always fails  in the context of ",
> but aparently there are also other properties  than just "markedversion"
> that always fail in this context.

Yes.

> But why does ""  only return a correct result for
> installed  virtual package  "acct-group/input-0"  but incorrect  results
> (stable and unstable at the same time) for both, the not installed pack-
> age "app-crypt/tpm2-tss-2.2.3-r2"  and the installed package "app-crypt/
> tpm2-tss-2.3.3"?

I don't know why the script now breaks for you:
For me the above script works: On amd64, I get the output

acct-group/input0   1 0
app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.2.3-r20 1
app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.3.3   0 1

and on x86, I get the output

acct-group/input0   1 0
app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.2.3-r20 0
app-crypt/tpm2-tss  2.3.3   0 0

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Ashley Dixon]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 07:58:03PM +0300, Consus wrote:
> In all honesty, is Gentoo dead? Gentoo-Dev is filled with passive
> aggression (though being developers-only mailing list), Github bot warns
> you that contributing new packages to the main repo is low priority and
> probably no one will help you, and even distribution kernel is not an
> official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.

Considering there have been almost 6000 commits to the repository in the last 21
days, I would question that claim.

https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-commits/threads/2020-04/

gentoo-dev isn't really filled with  any  sort  aggression.   There  is  healthy
debate, especially considering the recent switch to Python 3.7  and  masking  of
most 3.6-only packages, but that rigorous scrutiny is a requirement for  such  a
strong distro.

There  have,  of  course,  been  exceptions,  such  as  when  bman  went  on  an
"unsanctioned Python crusade"  (removal  of  all  Python  2  packages;  not  the
greatest of ideas), however in general, the Gentoo community is one of the  most
alive and healthy I've seen in any Linux distribution.

https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/6e8d816eb0125d6581be70f575272653

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

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[gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

[Consus]

Hi,

In all honesty, is Gentoo dead? Gentoo-Dev is filled with passive
aggression (though being developers-only mailing list), Github bot warns
you that contributing new packages to the main repo is low priority and
probably no one will help you, and even distribution kernel is not an
official thing, but a desperate attempt of someone to fix things.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Consus]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 06:33:05PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 21/04/2020 18:05, Gerion Entrup wrote:
> > what is the difference between these three packages? I don't get it from 
> > the description alone.
> > 
> > gentoo-sources: A linux kernel source tree with Gentoo patchset
> > gentoo-kernel-bin: A linux kernel binary image with initramfs?
> > gentoo-kernel: ???
> 
> This is what Mike Pagano (who maintains gentoo-sources and is part of
> Gentoo's kernel team) had to say:
> 
> > Gentoo-sources is the upstream kernel with our patches on top.
> > They could include experimental patches (use=experimental),
> > or fixes that have not made it into the mainline upstream kernel.
> > 
> > If you have something you might want in gentoo-sources, all it
> > takes is a bug and some discussion and if it makes sense we usually will
> > include it.
> > 
> > Gentoo-sources is under the umbrella of the Gentoo Kernel Team.
> > 
> > gentoo-kernel is a project done by a developer outside of the kernel team.
> > I believe his goal was to provide a kernel with a sane default config
> > that should generally work for everyone.  It looks like it uses the
> > config file from Arch Linux.  The kernel project is not involved with
> > that.
> > I think (it's not my work), the idea is like when you install Ubuntu or 
> > some other
> > distro where they try to make a kernel with a config covering a ton of 
> > stuff so
> > you don't have to compile your own.
> 
> Unfortunately he didn't say anything about gentoo-kernel-bin. So... no idea.

Package gentoo-kernel is the source package. It contains kernel source
code + default usable config and builds you a new kernel during emerge.
gentoo-kernel-bin contains prebuilt kernel image without any source
code.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Ashley Dixon]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 06:04:33PM +0200, Gerion Entrup wrote:
> My summary then is:
>
> gentoo-sources: vanilla source tree + gentoo-patches (no automatic compiling
> etc.).
>
> gentoo-kernel: take gentoo-sources as source, the kernel .config file from
> Arch Linux and then compile and install it automatically with portage.
>
> gentoo-kernel-bin: The precompiled version of gentoo-kernel (except of the
> initramfs that has to be generated on a per PC basis).

Yeah, although I'm not sure "compile" is the right word for initramfs.   Perhaps
"configure" would sound better ?  Anyway, yes, that's a reasonable  summary.   I
don't know if the .config file in gentoo-kernel is _identical_ to that of  Arch,
but it's certainly engineered to fit a wide range of use-cases, much  like  most
Linux distros (think Ubuntu's  built  in  support  for  almost  every  piece  of
hardware imaginable, hence  the  latest  L.T.S.\  release  weighing  in  at  two
gigabytes).

In general, I would always go for  the  vanilla  gentoo-sources.   Basic  kernel
configuration is explained excellently throughout the Installation Handbook, and
unless you have a _very_ old/slow C.P.U., compilation  time  should  not  be  an
issue, unless you need to re-configure your kernel options  on  a  daily  basis.

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Gerion Entrup]

Am Dienstag, 21. April 2020, 17:47:08 CEST schrieb Ashley Dixon:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 06:33:05PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 21/04/2020 18:05, Gerion Entrup wrote:
> > > gentoo-kernel: ???
> >
> > Unfortunately he didn't say anything about gentoo-kernel-bin. So... no idea.
> 
> gentoo-kernel-bin is, as its description on packages.gentoo.org would 
> suggest: a
> pre-built kernel---hence the 'bin' suffix.  This is not uncommon in Gentoo, 
> c.f.
> www-client/firefox-bin or dev-java/gradle-bin.  In  fact,  there  are  
> currently
> eighty-eight such packages in Portage.
> 
> They're just provided for convenience, when people  don't  want  to  spend  
> ages
> compiling some massive software on their fifteen-year-old C.P.U.  In the case 
> of
> Firefox, legal issues with enabling official branding can also sometimes 
> concern
> the binary distribution.

Thank you for the explanations. I also dug around a bit in the 
kernel-build.eclass and the ebuilds.

My summary then is:
gentoo-sources: vanilla source tree + gentoo-patches (no automatic compiling 
etc.).
gentoo-kernel: take gentoo-sources as source, the kernel .config file from Arch 
Linux and then compile and install it automatically with portage.
gentoo-kernel-bin: The precompiled version of gentoo-kernel (except of the 
initramfs that has to be generated on a per PC basis).

Gerion


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Re: [gentoo-user] Converting a Portage Flat File to a Directory Structure

[Ashley Dixon]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 09:18:04AM -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:
> I wasn't aware that you could put sub-directories in
> /etc/portage/package.use.  I've always had to put the files directly in that
> directory, not sub-directories.  As such, my files have names like
> sys-apps-util-linux to avoid naming collisions.  Perhaps things have changed
> since I last tried to use a sub-directory or I am misremembering.

I'm not sure  if  this  is  a  new  feature,  but  to  my  knowledge,  package.*
directories are able to emulate the structure you have in  /var/db/repos/gentoo,
i.e.  /.

> I think it should be relatively easy to script reading the line, extracting
> the package name, munging the name, and writing the entire unmodified line
> to a new file based on the munged name.  If directories work, create and
> populate them without munging names.

Yeah, I think I will have to dust off my old shell-scripting manual.  Somehow  I
always find a way of avoiding scripting, as I have a  strong  disliking  towards
it.  I was just curious if there was a pre-existing tool included with  Portage.

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

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[gentoo-user] How to change keyboard layout for 1 keyboard only

[J. Roeleveld]

Hi All,

I got my hands on a Razer gaming keypad which I want to use for games, but 
possibly also for other tasks.
On MS Windows there is a tool to change the key mapping of this device. For 
Linux, I can't find any (yet).

It is seen as a seperate keyboard and according to some howtos I found, it is 
possible to assign different layouts to different keyboards.
What I am missing is a description on how to edit/change/create a keymap for a 
single keyboard.

Does anyone know of a howto/tool/something else that will help me with this?

Many thanks in advance,

Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Gerion Entrup]

Am Dienstag, 21. April 2020, 17:33:05 CEST schrieb Nikos Chantziaras:
> On 21/04/2020 18:05, Gerion Entrup wrote:
> > what is the difference between these three packages? I don't get it from 
> > the description alone.
> > 
> > gentoo-sources: A linux kernel source tree with Gentoo patchset
> > gentoo-kernel-bin: A linux kernel binary image with initramfs?
> > gentoo-kernel: ???
> 
> This is what Mike Pagano (who maintains gentoo-sources and is part of 
> Gentoo's kernel team) had to say:
> 
> > Gentoo-sources is the upstream kernel with our patches on top.
> > They could include experimental patches (use=experimental),
> > or fixes that have not made it into the mainline upstream kernel.
> > 
> > If you have something you might want in gentoo-sources, all it
> > takes is a bug and some discussion and if it makes sense we 
> > usually will include it.
> > 
> > Gentoo-sources is under the umbrella of the Gentoo Kernel Team.
> > 
> > gentoo-kernel is a project done by a developer outside of the kernel team.
> > I believe his goal was to provide a kernel with a sane default config that 
> > should generally work for everyone.  It looks like it uses the config file 
> > from Arch Linux.  The kernel project is not involved with that.
> > I think (it's not my work), the idea is like when you install Ubuntu or 
> > some other
> > distro where they try to make a kernel with a config covering a ton of 
> > stuff so
> > you don't have to compile your own.
> 
> Unfortunately he didn't say anything about gentoo-kernel-bin. So... no idea.

Somewhat related to that is:
https://blogs.gentoo.org/mgorny/2019/12/19/a-distribution-kernel-for-gentoo/

However, mgorny speaks about vanialla-kernel not gentoo-kernel(-bin) there.


Gerion



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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Ashley Dixon]

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 06:33:05PM +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 21/04/2020 18:05, Gerion Entrup wrote:
> > gentoo-kernel: ???
>
> Unfortunately he didn't say anything about gentoo-kernel-bin. So... no idea.

gentoo-kernel-bin is, as its description on packages.gentoo.org would suggest: a
pre-built kernel---hence the 'bin' suffix.  This is not uncommon in Gentoo, c.f.
www-client/firefox-bin or dev-java/gradle-bin.  In  fact,  there  are  currently
eighty-eight such packages in Portage.

They're just provided for convenience, when people  don't  want  to  spend  ages
compiling some massive software on their fifteen-year-old C.P.U.  In the case of
Firefox, legal issues with enabling official branding can also sometimes concern
the binary distribution.

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

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[gentoo-user] Re: sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 21/04/2020 18:05, Gerion Entrup wrote:

what is the difference between these three packages? I don't get it from the 
description alone.

gentoo-sources: A linux kernel source tree with Gentoo patchset
gentoo-kernel-bin: A linux kernel binary image with initramfs?
gentoo-kernel: ???


This is what Mike Pagano (who maintains gentoo-sources and is part of 
Gentoo's kernel team) had to say:



Gentoo-sources is the upstream kernel with our patches on top.
They could include experimental patches (use=experimental),
or fixes that have not made it into the mainline upstream kernel.

If you have something you might want in gentoo-sources, all it
takes is a bug and some discussion and if it makes sense we 
usually will include it.


Gentoo-sources is under the umbrella of the Gentoo Kernel Team.

gentoo-kernel is a project done by a developer outside of the kernel team.
I believe his goal was to provide a kernel with a sane default config that 
should generally work for everyone.  It looks like it uses the config file 
from Arch Linux.  The kernel project is not involved with that.

I think (it's not my work), the idea is like when you install Ubuntu or some 
other
distro where they try to make a kernel with a config covering a ton of stuff so
you don't have to compile your own.


Unfortunately he didn't say anything about gentoo-kernel-bin. So... no idea.

Re: [gentoo-user] Converting a Portage Flat File to a Directory Structure

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/20/20 7:13 AM, Ashley Dixon wrote:

Hi gentoo-user,


Hi,


Following the recent conversation started by Meino, I have decided to
convert my package.* files to directory structures.  For  all  but
one,  this  has  proven tedious, but relatively painless.  My
package.use file is another story: at over three-hundred lines, the
thought of manually  converting  this  to  a  directory structure
does not attract me.

Are there any tools in Portage to help with this, or must I resort to
writing  a shell script ?


I'm not aware of a tool to do the conversion.  However there may be one 
that I'm not aware of.



For example, considering the following lines in my flat package.use:

 media-video/openshot printsupport
 sys-apps/util-linux tty-helpers

I want to take this file and create a directory structure:

 media-video/openshot, containing "media-video/openshot printsupport"
 sys-apps/util-linux, containing "sys-apps/util-linux tty-helpers"


I wasn't aware that you could put sub-directories in 
/etc/portage/package.use.  I've always had to put the files directly in 
that directory, not sub-directories.  As such, my files have names like 
sys-apps-util-linux to avoid naming collisions.  Perhaps things have 
changed since I last tried to use a sub-directory or I am misremembering.



How can this be done ?


I think it should be relatively easy to script reading the line, 
extracting the package name, munging the name, and writing the entire 
unmodified line to a new file based on the munged name.  If directories 
work, create and populate them without munging names.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[gentoo-user] sys-kernel/gentoo-sources vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel vs. sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin

[Gerion Entrup]

Hi,

what is the difference between these three packages? I don't get it from the 
description alone.

gentoo-sources: A linux kernel source tree with Gentoo patchset
gentoo-kernel-bin: A linux kernel binary image with initramfs?
gentoo-kernel: ???

Best,
Gerion

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[gentoo-user] Re: Problem understanding "eix"

[Dr Rainer Woitok]

Martin,

On Monday, 2020-04-20 18:21:00 -, you wrote:

> ...
> >app-crypt/tpm2-tss   2.3.3   0 1
> ...
> The second value depends on your ARCH;
> Since {isunstable} fails, I suppose that your ARCH is not amd64.

   $ eix --dump | grep DEFAULT_ARCH
   DEFAULT_ARCH="amd64"
   $

So no, that's a wrong assumption.

> ...
> installedversion returns the details of the version in /var/db.

You may be right on this one: the description  of the "--installed" opt-
ion in the  "eix" manual page  contains a faint hint  pointing into this
direction by explaining that

   --format '' --pure-packages

would produce the same result as "equery"  while using the "--installed"
option might not.   But the description of  "installedversions:VARIABLE"
farther down just tersly notes  "This is analogous  to availableversions
with the difference that only installed versions are printed".

So it boils down to the question what precisely "analogous" means here.

> ...
> But /vat/db does not contain any information whether the version
> is stable, unstable, or alienstable, so these tests do not make
> any sense for installed versions.

   $ cd /var/db/pkg
   $ cat acct-group/input-0/KEYWORDS app-crypt/tpm2-tss-2.3.3/KEYWORDS |
 xargs -n1 | grep '^~?amd64$'
   amd64
   ~amd64
   $

So the information is clearly there.

> eix does not print an error if you query that information anyway,
> but the return value for any such test (isstable, isunstable,
> isalienstable, etc) is always empty (false).

>From that it follows that the "isstable" and "isunstable" properties may
both return "0" at the same time  because the information just isn't av-
ailable, but may never both return "1".   So for clarity I slightly mod-
ified my test script  by removing the  "!" prefix  from the "isunstable"
property:

   $ cat test-script
   #! /bin/sh
   export EIX_LIMIT=0 OVERLAYS_LIST=false PRINT_COUNT_ALWAYS=never
   export FMT="/\t\t{isstable}1{else}0{} 
{isunstable}1{else}0{}\n"
   echo in:
   eix --format '' \
   --category-name --regex 'app-crypt/tpm2-tss$|acct-group/input'
   echo av:
   eix --format '' \
   --category-name --regex 'app-crypt/tpm2-tss$|acct-group/input'
   $ ./test-script
   in:
   acct-group/input 0   0 0
   app-crypt/tpm2-tss   2.3.3   0 0
   av:
   acct-group/input 0   1 0
   app-crypt/tpm2-tss   2.2.3-r21 1
   app-crypt/tpm2-tss   2.3.3   1 1
   $

So it seems that  even though the information  is available in "/var/db/
pkg/" "eix" just doesn't look there when processing "installedversions".
This may be a documentation problem rather than a bug (even though I my-
self would prefer a correction in "eix" itself rather than in its docum-
entation :-).   The manual mentions in another place that the  "test for
markedversions always fails  in the context of ",
but aparently there are also other properties  than just "markedversion"
that always fail in this context.

But why does ""  only return a correct result for
installed  virtual package  "acct-group/input-0"  but incorrect  results
(stable and unstable at the same time) for both, the not installed pack-
age "app-crypt/tpm2-tss-2.2.3-r2"  and the installed package "app-crypt/
tpm2-tss-2.3.3"?

Still puzzled :-/

Sincerely,
  Rainer

Re: [gentoo-user] best rss reader?

[Emmanuel Vasilakis]

On 4/20/20 12:15 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:



summary of questions:
-
 1. what rss feed reader do you use?


net-news/quiterss


 2. what are your theoretical principles that
guided you to choose the rss feed that you
use.


Configure-ability. I must be able to select fonts, colors, etc.

Plus, I used kde's one before, and quiterss was the closest one to that.

Thanks,
Emmanuel